I like having something I can call my own. junk is junk, a good build is a good build.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Grown men thinking their the real super heros driving super exotics.

OK, so let me see if I've got this straight... first it was the cars that are stupid, and now the owners stupid too. Am I misquoting you here or taking anything you've said out of context this time? Because the only grown man on this thread (and probably on this site) that struts around acting the super hero is also the only one who posts his every exploit in his car in the Chop Top Chronicles in the Construction Zone. No mask or cape needed.

BTW, I noticed you didn't answer my last post... shall I repost it for page 6?

[This message has been edited by Bloozberry (edited 12-28-2011).]

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Seriously, create something "new" and if you lack creativity then at least build a "kit" that looks like the original 5 feet away. http://www.youtube.com/watc...=1&feature=endscreen http://www.youtube.com/watc...LSQ0&feature=related Two examples of replicas 34k that you can drive around town trying to fool the 2-yrs old kid down the block (super replica suit optional).

Just so you know, super replicas is a total scam, if your going to show something, then at least show something from a real company.

BTW I find it funny that as you got backed into a corner, you started making a distinction between "bad" and "good" kits.

Joe

[This message has been edited by motoracer838 (edited 12-28-2011).]

quote Originally posted by motoracer838: Just so you know, super replicas is a total scam, if your going to show something, then at least show something from a real company. BTW I find it funny that as you got backed into a corner, you started making a distinction between "bad" and "good" kits. Joe

Obviously, you have selective reading. In the beginning I've repeated the same thing over and over again that (some) kit represent the original pretty good while others do not (page 1 please) . The ones that are poorly designed are the points that I've been making since this thread was started and, "yes" know Super Replica is a rip off company. My posting of the video was to show that the kit doesn't even look close to the original for 34K LOL.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: 01-13-2009 09:27 PM I agree it's "creativity" but as a whole the kit kar industry lacks serious imagination. They cannot build anything new. It's as-if they're stuck in a mental loop and can't go beyond the pen/pencil or note pad. Thus countless number of venders are producing the same product over and over again- some good and some bad. The examples on both sides are endless. Thus a potential customer who spends 70k for a replica is stuck with other kits that sucks A good example for around 30k or so. A "Tasteless" examples for a lot less; Thus owners of replica are faced with a triple stigma. 1. Fiero (false lies regarding Fires and parts bin parts). 2. Kit car based upon a Fiero. 3. Shoddy workmanship from past and present venders. Granted, if venders started with something new or using a Fiero base framed then there would be a need to badge everything to death or front. Cien

Bottom line: It's a no-win situation. You have to have money to build it (correctly) in order for the kit to look like the original (that is the main objective, right?). Otherwise, it comes off as a cheap knock-off with a badge with a stubby Lambo or Ferrari that isn't the correct size, roof, windows, OEM, cheap wheels, and/or body. If you did all things correct you're looking over your shoulder for Ferrari will come after you with high paid lawyers. I'm surprised that Audi/Lamborghini hasn't gone after builders for it is only a matter of time.

I don`t think it`s so much the look of the body kit as the expertise that is used to lay the fiberglass or the fitment of the panels.
Most of the major manufacturers "splash" the molds off of real cars with the exception of the non-stretch version of the Countach.
So, in essence the body is almost the exact shape of a real car.
It`s just how it`s put together.
Madcurl talks about building something different, but we all have seen how horrendous some people`s ideas can be, so I say if you can`t improve on an existing platform such as a stock Fiero, why ruin the car`s good looks.
We don`t all have thousands of dollars to pay someone to make our dream come to life and then hope they only do a one-off so that no one will have what you do.
I would rather re-body a Fiero chassis with a fairly good representation of a supercar than butcher the stock Fiero lines.

[This message has been edited by TXGOOD (edited 12-28-2011).]

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Bottom line: It's a no-win situation. You have to have money to build it (correctly) in order for the kit to look like the original (that is the main objective, right?). Otherwise, it comes off as a cheap knock-off with a badge with a stubby Lambo or Ferrari that isn't the correct size, roof, windows, OEM, cheap wheels, and/or body. If you did all things correct you're looking over your shoulder for Ferrari will come after you with high paid lawyers. I'm surprised that Audi/Lamborghini hasn't gone after builders for it is only a matter of time.

I'll be the first to knock on a bad kit and truly don't understand the short wheelbase Countachs.

The quote that you put up from above is less that 3 years old, you've been bashing kits for much longer, and your self righteousness is getting old. The kit industry has tried original designs from time to time, for every 20 or so, your lucky to have 1 sucsess, a lot of money has been wasted over the years trying to do original designs and the kit company's found a better market producing replicas, one of the few current original designs that is having some level of sucsess is the FFR GTM. Kit company's are in the biz to turn a profit, it's hard enough to make a profit with replicas.

Given that you don't even do most of the work on your own cars, you really don't have room to be bashing about a "lack of creativity" most of your "creativity" comes from other people's skills, for many people building a replica of something is their way of "doing something unique". Since it's not your money, I don't understand your negativity. I'd love nothing more than to watch you "create" an original car WITH YOUR OWN TWO HANDS, as well as out of your pocket.

Joe

[This message has been edited by motoracer838 (edited 12-29-2011).]

My comments are intended for the support of the kit car industry, those creative people who may do an original or splash a copy. Back
in the 80s I wanted to do a replica of the AMX///. Wrote to Chrysler, who then owned the AMC rights in all aspects. Their legal begals
told me, sure as long as we inspect-make adjustments as needed-approve-&-get a royalty for each vehicle. My pockets never were that deep. Glad to see some of Mr. Teague's family bringing that car to market, still can't afford one.

Also; back in the day--a replica "had" to be modified by @least 10% in design. The "replica" COULD NOT be spot-on. Perhaps that"s why lawyers still pursue kit car manufactures who wish to infringe on the original owners rights in any or all aspects.

My fieros are my personal platform that allows me to do as I wish in creating a vehicle to MY liking. I have a hand crafted vehicle that
I'm rebuilding w/modern drivetrain & other upgrades. The Association of Handcrafted Automobiles does connect with many replica
building companies, to help all involved to build/maintain safe vehicles. After all, their is beauty in all things--peace ya'll--Rick

quote Originally posted by motoracer838: I'll be the first to knock on a bad kit and truly don't understand the short wheelbase Countachs. The quote that you put up from above is less that 2 years old, you've been bashing kits for much longer, and your self righteousness is getting old. The kit industry has tried original designs from time to time, for every 20 or so, your lucky to have 1 sucsess, a lot of money has been wasted over the years trying to do original designs and the kit company's found a better market producing replicas, one of the few current original designs that is having some level of sucsess is the FFR GTM. Kit company's are in the biz to turn a profit, it's hard enough to make a profit with replicas. Given that you don't even do most of the work on your own cars, you really don't have room to be bashing about a "lack of creativity" most of your "creativity" comes from other people's skills, for many people building a replica of something is their way of "doing something unique". Since it's not your money, I don't understand your negativity. I'd love nothing more than to watch you "create" an original car WITH YOUR OWN TWO HANDS,and out of your pocket. Joe

I don't care. Copy something to the limit you wish (stop at wheel base if you want, it's your car), or go out on a limb and create your own idea. If it's someone's car, and it looks different from something else, it will always interest me. I saw a Del Sol with a kit on it today, perfect paint job - and I thought wow that guy likes that car so much he took the time to make it a little better. Go him.

I once saw a yellow? (maybe red) 300z that was kind of a ferrari replica. I'm sure the other Plano guys may have seen it once or twice.
It's not perfect, but I was like you know what, go him! Because he's not driving a cloned car!

We have two options. Keep our Fieros stock or modify them. I have no problem with either choice. How someone modifies their car might not be what I would do, but it would be really arrogant of me to say that their choice is wrong. The last thing I would do is come up to someone who has spent time and money to modify their car and tell them that they did it all wrong and that I have no respect for what they did. If that was how I felt I would keep it to myself.

Replicants

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...&hash=item4162da4007

Interesting thread!

For my part, I like replicas, BUT, I can also understand the frustrations of those who do not appreciate them fully. The reason being that imo it is not wise to build or buy a supercar replica if the engine is not going to be able to kick azz like a supercar. Reps with 2.8 V6s in a 400-600hp car's body - just make no sense to me, but that is my opinion.

Once I parked my 308 rep in a plaza parking lot and as a young woman and her young son were walking by the car, the little boy said "look mommy, a Ferrari" - well, the mother had a stern look on her face and barked at the boy "that's not a Ferrari, it's a Fiero!" The boy was confused and said it again. "look mommy, a Ferrari" and she emphatically stated, "no, it's a Fiero!" Now, I was amused at this exchange, because to the little boy it 'looked' like a Ferrari, but his mother was so twisted she just couldn't resist confusing the child. I mean obviously someone had been discussing Fieros and Ferraris within their household and also knew of 'kit cars'. So what's the problem with the little boy identifying and recognizing a Ferrari looking car? Misery must love company.

Aside from all that, but in a similar vein, when I was a teenager, the 308 was the shiznit - I knew diddly squat about performance figures and such, but I knew a beautiful looking car when I saw it. Simple as that!

All sportscars, including Fieros, notchback and fastback GTs are like that, they look good and sound great too, BUT, the idea of having an exotic Italian looking car for a fraction of the 'real' cost is just too good to pass on for many and who can blame them?

It comes down to individual kit build and quality of finish....that is what matters imo - when others and the 'real' owners can look at your ride and give it a thumbs up for "doing it right".

I had a 308 rep built for me and chose it over a 328 rep because the Fiero GT performance was closer to the 308 than the 328.
Now there are 355s, Lambo Murcielagos, Gallrdos, 360s, 430s and even 458s coming.......WOW......best part is some great engine swaps are available now too.
Regardless of the cars we like/want/dream to own, the Fiero frame and layout offers a great platform to make some incredibly amazing machines and those of us who can appreciate and/or derive pleasure from that, are richer for it!.

[This message has been edited by I FAR I (edited 02-26-2012).]

WIthout all the Lambo badges I'd like it!

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Replicants http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...&hash=item4162da4007

quote Originally posted by I FAR I:

Well said.

Archie

I for one drive my car around with just as much pride as I would were it an authentic Ferrari... perhaps even more. Anyone with enough money can buy a car, but very precious few can build one. That's the pride I take in it.



Do I try to fool people into believing it's a real Ferarri... absolutely.



I suffer no shame in it. If I did, I wouldn't have the badges on it. Do I strut around with a cape thinking "I'm a real super hero driving my super exotic"?



Until you meet meet me, you'll never know... but anyone who ever asks if it's the real deal, gets the true story. Frankly, it's way more interesting to talk about how I built the car than how I could've easily slapped a credit card down and bought it off the showroom floor.



Am I irked by those who ridicule kit cars?



I wouldn't be human if I weren't... which leads me to wonder what possible motive anybody would have in doing so. Jealousy? Envy? Worried that I might "get the girl"? Perhaps some other school yard concern?

I totally agree with Bloozberry.
I think there should be two different classes within each class at a car show.
The cars who are built by the owner and the cars whose only talent the owner has is to sign his name on a check.
I respect someone who puts his own sweat into building a car more than someone who just has the financial talent.

quote Originally posted by TXGOOD: I totally agree with Bloozberry. I think there should be two different classes within each class at a car show. The cars who are built by the owner and the cars whose only talent the owner has is to sign his name on a check. I respect someone who puts his own sweat into building a car more than someone who just has the financial talent.

aaaaaaaaaaamen brother

Time is a source of conduct and it requires a certain amount of skills, to pay the bills.

quote Originally posted by TXGOOD: I totally agree with Bloozberry. I think there should be two different classes within each class at a car show. The cars who are built by the owner and the cars whose only talent the owner has is to sign his name on a check. I respect someone who puts his own sweat into building a car more than someone who just has the financial talent.

a little off topic but this attitude is BS, did you build your own house or did you just sign your name to it, did you build the computer you say this BS on or did you just pay for it, do you grow your own food or do you just pay for it, We all have our own skill sets and professions .

Actually, I did build my own house.
How can it be BS when it`s only my opinion.
I was just commenting that if someone uses the skill that he has to build a replica that I personally don`t care if it`s a perfect copy as much as I appreciate his skill in doing what he has done.
A lot of guys do their own work and in the case of car shows they often don`t get the recognition they deserve when they are in the same class as someone who paid someone else to to do the work.

A lot time you will find guys who pay someone to build their cars actually have pretty busy lives and just simply don't have the time to do a lot of DIY stuff and i will say more often than not, but not always, A LOT of DIY guys (truth be told, and there is no shame in it) probably don't have the pockets to pay someone to do it.

Many do enjoy just doing it for themselves, but for most especially in this economy, money is definatly an issue.

Just my opinion but I disagree with the suggestion that there should be different classes depending on who built it. That is like admitting the DIY guys can't compete with a shop produced car.

There are some DIY out there who can kick a** when it comes to building stuff.

You got me exotise, I`m one of the guys who can`t afford for someone else to work on my car.
But, and this is just my personal take, when I am asking someone about a mod on their car and they can tell me how they did it themselves, I just respect them a little more as a car builder.
But, I think the line will always be divided.
You will get praise for a car from the general public as just a custom car and you will get praise from other builders as a builder.

quote Originally posted by Archie: Well said. Archie

Thank you Archie.

Paul

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: WIthout all the Lambo badges I'd like it!

EXACTLY what I thought! That is a sweet little kit that makes a Solstice/Sky look WAY exotic. Get some type of customized removable hard-top for it, take all the badging off, probably switch up the trunklid to something without "engine" vents...

Either way, the owner obviously put a lot of work into it, and it has sparked my interest, I would love to get my hands on it! I just don't get why all the badges are on it. Its a situation where I would love to be able to just sit down one-on-one with the owner and get his honest reasons.

edit: Curly did you see the mirrors on that thing?

[This message has been edited by 1988holleyformula (edited 02-27-2012).]

quote Originally posted by 1988holleyformula: Its a situation where I would love to be able to just sit down one-on-one with the owner and get his honest reasons.

There's no mystery. He did it for the same reasons some people put 20" wheels on Chevette suspensions. The same reasons I put Ferrari badges on mine... to make the car look like a better car than it's actual underpinnings. C'mon. The thing is, some people think we should be embarrassed by false badging. Those people are just kidding themselves that they don't hide behind false masks of their own.

(Edited for spelling)

[This message has been edited by Bloozberry (edited 02-27-2012).]

I just hope these are still around when I win the lottery...



I want to build one soooo bad... rust proof it and beat the piss out of it during MN winters.

------------------

quote Originally posted by TXGOOD: You got me exotise, I`m one of the guys who can`t afford for someone else to work on my car. But, and this is just my personal take, when I am asking someone about a mod on their car and they can tell me how they did it themselves, I just respect them a little more as a car builder. But, I think the line will always be divided. You will get praise for a car from the general public as just a custom car and you will get praise from other builders as a builder.

No question a guy who gets his hands dirty and does it himself will always get a little more thumbs up.

quote Originally posted by 1988holleyformula: edit: Curly did you see the mirrors on that thing?

Yes. The beauty of this build is the fact that it sits on a Sky/Soltise vs. a Fiero. The sad part is the badging. Still, coming up with a new design would've been way better. Why waste talent on something that looks nothing like the original when you could build a new design.

quote Originally posted by troyboy: a little off topic but this attitude is BS, did you build your own house or did you just sign your name to it, did you build the computer you say this BS on or did you just pay for it, do you grow your own food or do you just pay for it, We all have our own skill sets and professions .

The difference here is that nobody here is entering house shows, computer shows, food competitions, etc. Car shows are for showing off a car that you have customized right? When you enter a car show with a car you didnt touch a wrench to, where is the pride in that? Just showing off your money and other peoples work i guess?

I don't think i would ever build a replica for myself. Just not my thing, for a lot of the same reasons madcurl posts. The difference is i have a huge amount of respect for the people that build replica's. And huge amounts of respect for the people that build choptops and wide bodys. I have no respect for people who pay someone to build them a car, and have the balls to talk down on people who do the work themselves, just because they don't like the car. You dont like replicas...but cant you see the skill that goes into them? Isn't that something to respect?

Not everyone who has a car is interested in showing it at car show. Furthermore, such class warfare and talk of "huge respect" for the builders, or a lack of respect for the buyers, is meaningless and nonsense; because if people were not willing to pay builders for cars, the builders would have no need or reason to build them!

How do we separate the open pocket car owners vs the diyers? What percentage of the work do they have to do, all engine rebuild but bodywork to a shop?

quote Originally posted by 85sliverGT: The difference here is that nobody here is entering house shows, computer shows, food competitions, etc.

I'm sure you'd be surprised on who is doing those.

quote Originally posted by 85sliverGT: The difference here is that nobody here is entering house shows, computer shows, food competitions, etc. Car shows are for showing off a car that you have customized right? When you enter a car show with a car you didnt touch a wrench to, where is the pride in that? Just showing off your money and other peoples work i guess? I don't think i would ever build a replica for myself. Just not my thing, for a lot of the same reasons madcurl posts. The difference is i have a huge amount of respect for the people that build replica's. And huge amounts of respect for the people that build choptops and wide bodys. I have no respect for people who pay someone to build them a car, and have the balls to talk down on people who do the work themselves, just because they don't like the car. You dont like replicas...but cant you see the skill that goes into them? Isn't that something to respect?

try reading the post and tell me where you see me talking down about those who build their own cars, show me where you see me talking down about replicas?


** EDIT ** Thank you for you clarification

[This message has been edited by troyboy (edited 02-28-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Gokart Mozart: How do we separate the open pocket car owners vs the diyers?

Don't forget that people can be both. Between 2003 and 2008 I had access to a workshop in Germany that my uncle owned and did many things myself. Now I live in an apartment building in Miami and don't have much space or many tools at my disposal. Therefore anything bigger than tinkering has to be done by someone else (notably whodeanie). It's still me who decides what get's done, though, and that makes it MY vision. At some point the situation will change and I will be able to do more things on my own again.

So, am I "open pocket" or a DIYer?

I think that everyone has someone help them out with something.
As I get older, I would rather have someone else do some of the things that I have worked on in the past.
I mean, who likes to sand and fill and then sand again when using body filler to get a good finish.
When you are done, you can be proud of what you have accomplished but sometimes it`s hard to stay enthusiastic especially if you miss shows because of it.
I have been around a couple of people in years past who looked down on the DIY`er because maybe his project wasn`t as perfect as theirs, that they had paid dearly to get finished.
Those are the people I have a problem with.
I know a lot of people who don`t do any of their own work, but they are great people who acknowledge someones hard work.
Hey, in the end, we are all just Fiero lovers, whether we have the same opinion on who does and doesn`t do their own work.

[This message has been edited by TXGOOD (edited 02-28-2012).]

The word "builder" is loosely being applied for nobody has actually "build" anything. They have put together a "kit" using various components that were already made by various venders. Depending upon how accurate the vender is will determine how much involvement the owner will have in putting it together his kit car. However, as the pictures here have depicted most (if not all) venders have grossly deviated from the original car to which they've replicated (incorrect glass, Fiero roof, not lengthened-the list here is endless). If you factor in a a cheap buyer using incorrect wheels, brakes, interior-the end result is a lot worst.

I have to disagree with you here Madcurl because most "kits" are not what the name implies.
When you take on most kits, especially Lambo kits, you better have very deep pockets or be able to weld, run circuits, fabricate and figure out a hundred different things that the kit manufacturer didn`t quite supply.
They are far from just "put together" lego type builds.

Everywhere in the world except "In a van down by the Kern River":

Building = putting things together.

quote Originally posted by troyboy: try reading the post and tell me where you see me talking down about those who build their own cars, show me where you see me talking down about replicas?

My post wasn't directed at you troyboy, im sorry if it came off that way. I should have made that clearer. My first line about your comment was it. The rest is just speaking generally.

I understand that not everyone has the desire to physically "build" (can i say that madcurl?) a car, or has the know-how, etc. That is understandable. What i don't think is appropriate is for anyone to put down someones car when clearly someone put a lot of time, work, money and effort into...especially someone who has never attempted themselves.

quote Originally posted by 85sliverGT: My post wasn't directed at you troyboy, im sorry if it came off that way. I should have made that clearer. My first line about your comment was it. The rest is just speaking generally. I understand that not everyone has the desire to physically "build" (can i say that madcurl?) a car, or has the know-how, etc. That is understandable. What i don't think is appropriate is for anyone to put down someones car when clearly someone put a lot of time, work, money and effort into...especially someone who has never attempted themselves.

Thank you for your clarification , older post will Edited

Deleted out of respect for two gentlemen.

[This message has been edited by Bloozberry (edited 02-28-2012).]