Update May 6 2011 ________________________________________________________
www.DICEPD.com Price starts at $450 for the base package and includes free shipping!
Update July 6 2009 ________________________________________________________ Hey guys, Ive been working with several Ecotec swappers from various forums, from race trucks, to sunbirds to fieros.
Im looking at having a complete ECOTEC Megasquirt Setup. But I have a few questions for you guys...
How "Plug In Play" Do you want it? More DIY(more wiring experience needed) vs Complete (Plugs everything in, more pricey)
What style Ignition? "Direct Ignition Control" This setup is needed for 06+ Ecotecs because of a change in Crank Teeth. DIS, 2 coils mounted on a OBD1 Style ICM, simple setup but cannot be used on 06+. Distributor/HEI style, more costly but more old school tuning.
I've successfully ran mine since spring of 07. I used DIC and DIS styles.
Price? Not entirely sure, depending on options I would guess $400+.
Your welcome to Email me @ DICE033"AT" AOL.com or post in this thread!
Thanks, Dan DICE Performance Development ______________________________________ UPDATE!!! UNTIL MAY 1st
I am offering $25 dollars off the base package for the first person to order off of Pennocks. This unit would be completed in mid may. It will also include FREE SHIPPING.
If payment is received BEFORE April 25th. I will knock another 5 bucks off.
The base package includes the pre-loaded ECM+Base harness, detailed colored wiring instructions, list of part numbers/parts needed to complete, FAQ/Troubleshooting page all bundled in a nice little folder.
Adding this to the first post as well. The additional options/packages can also be included. If you have any questions on contents or pricing email me at DICE033@aol.com.
[This message has been edited by Fosgatecavy98 (edited 05-06-2011).]
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05:09 PM
PFF
System Bot
Austrian Import Member
Posts: 3919 From: Monterey, CA Registered: Feb 2007
Could you get Drive-by-wire and Ecotec LNF working? Cause that would be great. (help me distract the Cali smog people, while I install the LNF j/k - at that point it would have to be a track toy. )
Could you get Drive-by-wire and Ecotec LNF working? Cause that would be great. (help me distract the Cali smog people, while I install the LNF j/k - at that point it would have to be a track toy. )
The LNF will prove difficult, but the drive-by-wire can be taken care of with a simple Throttlebody swap, the hard part is the direct injection, but I believe some of the MS gurus are taking care of it.
My setup is tuned and set for N/A but people interested in turboing shouldnt have much more to do on the computer side of it
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12:01 AM
hyperv6 Member
Posts: 6134 From: Clinton, OH, USA Registered: Mar 2003
If your doing a conversion you had better work it out for a LNF as all the Ecotechs will be drive by wire and Direct injected before long. The LNF is where this engine is going with or without the turbo.
The fuel system is the hard part. Mine idles in the 400-500 PSI and at WOT I see over 2000 PSI on the fuel pressures.
Getting the lines and everything else right will be the trick. Direct Injection also will be on the new V6 and V8's before long. The 3.6 in the Caddy and Camaro already have it. The FWD/AWD Buick Lecrosse is next on the 3.0 V6.
If your doing a conversion you had better work it out for a LNF as all the Ecotechs will be drive by wire and Direct injected before long. The LNF is where this engine is going with or without the turbo.
The fuel system is the hard part. Mine idles in the 400-500 PSI and at WOT I see over 2000 PSI on the fuel pressures.
Getting the lines and everything else right will be the trick. Direct Injection also will be on the new V6 and V8's before long. The 3.6 in the Caddy and Camaro already have it. The FWD/AWD Buick Lecrosse is next on the 3.0 V6.
Well thats your opinion,
Im very aware of Drive-by-wire, but why do you need it when you can just change back to a cable style, no need for more electronics. I dont need a computer to tell me what I want the throttle to do.
Doing a LNF your limiting yourself majorly to power. Your exponentially increasing the difficulty of the swap. The Gen II blocks and L61 are super simple compared and the limits are endless, plus for the price of one LNF I would suspect you could buy 2 fieros and 8 L61s.....
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11:06 AM
kevin Member
Posts: 2722 From: Elk Grove, CA USA Registered: Jan 2000
Fosgate, Though I am far away in California, (the land of the Smog Nazis), I think we can still do business. I am most interested in putting the Ecotec in my Fiero. Overall, the plug and play is probably best for me. Or, with the proper peices, I suppose I can buy your parts and do the install myself. Either way, you are sitting on a gold mind. I think the performace of the Ecotec is close to 14 sec. 1/4 mile @ 90 mph. Top speed of around 125. Is this correct? I think I am close. Oh, and getting 30 + mpg. What is beter than that? Build it and they will come.....
Cordially, Kevin
[This message has been edited by kevin (edited 02-03-2009).]
if its a full plug n play ecotec swap i would definitely be interested. Yea it will cost more but it will make it an accessible swap to those of use who don't have access to all the stuff needed to fab up major parts.
I can't imagine doing a swap using direct fuel injection. The fuel pressures are enormous. I don't even know if AN SS braided hose would hold this kind of pressure. Has anyone tried it yet? Also I believe that the Ecotec auto swap would be easier as you would not have to contend with reworking the shifter mechanism.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. 87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
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07:24 PM
Austrian Import Member
Posts: 3919 From: Monterey, CA Registered: Feb 2007
Originally posted by Fosgatecavy98: the drive-by-wire can be taken care of with a simple Throttlebody swap
But is it possible in case I want to keep drive-by-wire? I've driven plenty of cars with it and I have no issues with it. I can't tell anything about a lag/delay. (heck, I can't tell the delay between me pressing a key on a keyboard and it appearing on the screen either..)
I also like the idea of no-lift-shift, which I think necessitates drive by wire. (or Nissan's synchro-rev, which again necessitates drive by wire. (and probably an ABS module, but that's more of a dream anyways.) )
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07:36 PM
Austrian Import Member
Posts: 3919 From: Monterey, CA Registered: Feb 2007
The fuel system is the hard part. Mine idles in the 400-500 PSI and at WOT I see over 2000 PSI on the fuel pressures.
The way I understand it: There is a normal fuel pump with normal fuel pressures up until the engine, and then there is another high pressure cam driven fuel pump that ups it to 2000psi.
Other manufacturers do it the same way. That's where the characteristic DI ticking comes from.
Besides, DI is probably the future. It's the only way to marry emissions and power requirements in an internal combustion engine. I'm sure once Mitsubishi's patents on the turbo charger run out, most engines will have factory turbos as well. (that and ceramics have gotten a lot better in the last 20 years, amongst other turbo technologies, such as variable angle turbines)
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07:40 PM
PFF
System Bot
Austrian Import Member
Posts: 3919 From: Monterey, CA Registered: Feb 2007
Also in the not so distant future, throttle plates will go the way of the dodo. / (depends on how you look at it)
BMW invented a variocam technology and is working on perfecting it to the point that throttle plates are unnecessary. They're even working on a way to eliminate starters as well. The engine will sense which position each cylinder is in and just open and close the valves in a way to fire the right cylinders in the right order to create momentum for the engine to "kick over". That will be very weird, to hear an engine start without the sound of a starter.
Ecotec DI is driven by a belt, which in the stock location could have issues, but I have not seen one in person yet.
To be honest, I am completely unsure about having Megasquirt control Drive-by-wire. Is it something that can happen in the future, absolutely, just like controlling COP,VVT, and other technologies... It can all be done with MS with sometime.
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08:18 PM
kevin Member
Posts: 2722 From: Elk Grove, CA USA Registered: Jan 2000
I think you're really on to something, by coming up to a mostly plug-n-play Ecotec kit. It's an awesome engine, plentiful, and perfect for the times. I would be very interested in one.
Good luck with it!
------------------ Spent my days with a woman unkind Smoked my stuff and drank all my wine...
I want to start as soon as I have the parts. What do you think? A few months? Let us know....
Kevin
Well Im merely waiting on more interest, I could start on a setup tomorrow. Im calling atleast 2 suppliers a day until I can find someone to suit all my needs. Its difficult to cross-reference ECOTEC and Megasquirt guys.
What engine are you guys most interested in using?
The earlier ECOTECs are a bit cheaper, the newer ones have slight updates (06+ era) that make them better, but most wouldnt ever know it.
It takes 2 completely different MS ignition setups for the difference, which is problem area. OR using a crank wheel on the front of the pulley...
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11:43 PM
Feb 4th, 2009
hyperv6 Member
Posts: 6134 From: Clinton, OH, USA Registered: Mar 2003
The way I understand it: There is a normal fuel pump with normal fuel pressures up until the engine, and then there is another high pressure cam driven fuel pump that ups it to 2000psi.
Other manufacturers do it the same way. That's where the characteristic DI ticking comes from.
Besides, DI is probably the future. It's the only way to marry emissions and power requirements in an internal combustion engine. I'm sure once Mitsubishi's patents on the turbo charger run out, most engines will have factory turbos as well. (that and ceramics have gotten a lot better in the last 20 years, amongst other turbo technologies, such as variable angle turbines)
Your are correct
A high-pressure, returnless fuel system is employed. It features a high-strength stainless steel fuel line that feeds a variable-pressure fuel rail. Direct injection requires higher fuel pressure than conventional fuel-injected engines, and an engine-driven high-pressure fuel pump is used to supply up to 2,250 psi of pressure. The system regulates lower fuel pressure at idle – approximately 752 psi and higher pressure at wide-open throttle. The cam-driven high-pressure pumps works in conjunction with a conventional fuel tank-mounted supply pump.
This is the future of all engines.
TPI look complicated till people took the time to lean it. I remember people removing it for a carberator back in the day.
Sometimes technology goes wrong as well, things become too complicated and have a single point of failure in this case the computer. The more complex engines become the more expensive they will be to repair when something goes wrong. Yes they will be reliable until one little thing goes screwey causing all kinds of havoc usually something small that would not have caused such a problem. I am by no means against technological advancement but the kiss rule is one that should not be forgotten. All this bs to make a gasoline engine run cleaner is kind of tail backward anyway, its the fuel not the engine.
Oh, I forgot to mention that us 5-speed guys need to buy the wiring for this iteration. I vote for the newer engines, +'06 or newer. By the way, how much extra horsepower do the newer engines have? If it is only a 'onezy' or 'twozy' extra oomph more, and your stuck with more complications, then I change my vote. Then again, all things being equal, my choice would be a new engine. Hope that helps...
Cordially, Kevin
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01:36 PM
PFF
System Bot
RACE Member
Posts: 4842 From: Des Moines IA Registered: Dec 2002
Would your plug and play kit use the automatic transmission from the ecotec or would it bolt to the Fiero's stock automatic? If it included the ecotec's transmission I would be interested.
[This message has been edited by RACE (edited 02-04-2009).]
What I have in mind is only for the manual transmissions, although a setup like what I have, using an adapter/spacer and mounting the ecotec to a stock fiero transmission I believe could use an automatic, basically any auto that isnt controlled by an ECM, but I have little knowledge when it comes to Automatics.
The newer ECOTECs dont make any more horsepower to note, you will find a HHR to have like 3 more hp or a Solistice to have XXX amount but I believe all the differences are within the stock computer, no mechanical changes.
If the manual ECOTEC transmission is similar 'electronically' to the stock one, it wont matter. Computer wise the only difference is the speedo. Using the fiero tranny like I did, obviously did not change anything for the speedo.
________________
Now you guys wanting a complete PLUG N PLAY setup are you guys ok with some wiring and soldering? Everything will be cut within 2-3 inches of where it should be, This allows for different routing of wiring on users preference.
I should have a better idea on "Absolutely Complete Kit" soon(this weekend at the latest), which will include every little connector, bolt and such that pertains to the electrical side of the ECOTEC swap. And prices can go down from there with out certain parts.
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02:42 PM
kevin Member
Posts: 2722 From: Elk Grove, CA USA Registered: Jan 2000
Im working on being a "one-stop shop" for the ecotec, I decided to work on the electronics first because mounts are not really hard to do once have it in the cradle, linkage for the ecotec tranny on the other hand is something i havent looked into.
Im waiting on the final call backs, but it looks like I will have a final price by tomorrow night guys!
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07:23 PM
chucks85fastback Member
Posts: 223 From: Cholchester, CT, USA Registered: Jun 2007
this sounds pretty awesome, I dont really know much about the ecotecs other than you can turbo them pretty easy and they're 4cyl (?), but it sounds cheaper than a 3800.
Here is an older video when I was working on some rear tie-rod issues. I was only taking the motor up to 5500 or so. This was pre-pre-pre-pre tuning and testing, in no way shape or form is this a final product! lol I believe it is from early 2007. http://s275.photobucket.com...current=VTS_27_1.flv
It hasa nice sound fora 4. I cant wait to see the kit. It looks like ill have to start looking for a second cradle to mount the eco to, and work from there. Btw how much soldering would be involved i meant to ask before, such as the sensor ends or the whole c500 block and such?
It hasa nice sound fora 4. I cant wait to see the kit. It looks like ill have to start looking for a second cradle to mount the eco to, and work from there. Btw how much soldering would be involved i meant to ask before, such as the sensor ends or the whole c500 block and such?
Anything to do with the stock engine wiring is gone. Basically the only thing left from the rear window back, is the tail light wiring.
Wiring just consists about 20 wires or such that are well labeled, and will be cut to the approx. length they need to be, they are also color coded and my wiring schematic (the main one) is also color coded.
You would just need to solder the sensor to the wires and a few other places, I am working on a few fuel injector harnesses so that way the first few dont even need to do that. I can also include the extra sensors.
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10:50 AM
PFF
System Bot
kevin Member
Posts: 2722 From: Elk Grove, CA USA Registered: Jan 2000
I just needed to BUMP this, for two reasons (1.) To give this post a flame (the 31st post) and (2.) So others can realize that this is a popular topic for other Fiero-istas and hopefully assist in ordering more Ecotec's from Fosgate. He is doing such an outstanding job
Cordially, Kevin
[This message has been edited by kevin (edited 02-05-2009).]
Originally posted by Fosgatecavy98: Anything to do with the stock engine wiring is gone. Basically the only thing left from the rear window back, is the tail light wiring.
Wiring just consists about 20 wires or such that are well labeled, and will be cut to the approx. length they need to be, they are also color coded and my wiring schematic (the main one) is also color coded.
You would just need to solder the sensor to the wires and a few other places, I am working on a few fuel injector harnesses so that way the first few dont even need to do that. I can also include the extra sensors.
That sounds like a good deal to me . BTW does the ecotec's computer run the stock fiero gauges. Sorry forthe dumb questions.
Originally posted by Macs86GT: That sounds like a good deal to me . BTW does the ecotec's computer run the stock fiero gauges. Sorry forthe dumb questions.
Not dumb at all.
I believe you can use a filter for the speedo and the ecotec trans. to have the speedo work with the tranny (no computer input) I used the fiero transmission so I did even touch that wiring.
Tach: The ICM I will be sending out has a TACH output but I believe being a 4 cylinder it will send that signal so it will read wrong w/ a v6 gauge, but can be worked out with different filters I believe.
Coolant Temp, MS is picky and wont let you use one sensor for the gauge and MS. So I would be including a second Coolant Temp Sensor for the gauge.
Oil Pressure, you will need a new gauge, the ecotec is a high pressure oil machine lol. Idle it runs 50-75psi, WOT its over 100psi (I believe 125ish) I used an electric Sunpro gauge that reads 0-100psi.
Voltage gauge, no change needed. Fuel Level, No change needed. . So yes, the Ecotec/MS works good with stock gauges with a few exceptions.
I am still working to figure out a suppler for the actual unit, which right now is a big killer on price. So it might be a bit longer, hopefully have everything figured out by the end of the weekend.
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01:12 AM
seabee1678 Member
Posts: 116 From: killeen,texas usa Registered: Jul 2004
My shop is about 800 ft from the 4 fastest cobals in USA. 7.167 sec ,202.08 MPH ,1500 HP. I talk to Marty Ladwig on a regular bases. The superchared ecotec have forged crank & rods . Remove the supercharger & use a turbocharger 600 hp. More info if you ask
My shop is about 800 ft from the 4 fastest cobals in USA. 7.167 sec ,202.08 MPH ,1500 HP. I talk to Marty Ladwig on a regular bases. The superchared ecotec have forged crank & rods . Remove the supercharger & use a turbocharger 600 hp. More info if you ask
Yeah im interested, please post here or email me at DICE033@aol.com
Now do you have a 1500hp ecotec that I could have?
Another question from the peanut gallery, what a bout air con compressor. I know a luxury but i drive the car on a regular basis in the summer. Btw im not trying to be a pest just trying to hash out the what for so the swap kit can be done right.
Another question from the peanut gallery, what a bout air con compressor. I know a luxury but i drive the car on a regular basis in the summer. Btw im not trying to be a pest just trying to hash out the what for so the swap kit can be done right.
I dont know about A/C, but I assume it wouldnt be to difficult to make the compressor kick on, but thats not tied to the computer. The A/C compressor make run into an issue with the cradle, but again I've never worried about A/C. If I got hot I just sped up
Another note, Im not sure if this bothers anyone, but I use no Idle control via the computer. The Ecotec Idle is a stepper motor that is much more difficult for MS to control. I tired a few idle controls from different vehicles, but I found using the set screw for the Throttlebody to be the easiest and most simple. I know some people may want the Stepper motor but that requires a whole different Megasquirt unit.
___Off subject Note___
Yesterday I got my Ecotec running on E85, I am currently setting it up to run ONLY E85. We had a warm day here in Michigan so I decided to give it a whiz. E85 for tuning is a WHOLE nother ball game let me tell ya. E85's tuning range is 2x the area of regular gas, meaning E85 will run the engine super lean or super rich. Should be interesting, I will be documenting the results with E85/Ecotec/MS so look out for my thread on it.
I can include everything, and I mean everything, each connector,fuse,sensor, everything, but as I do this the price is going up.
What are YOU guys looking to spend?
Things I can include: WB02, Neccesary ICM, Coils(performance/OEM) Wires(Performance), Plugs. Fuse Block (with fuses?), Wiring connectors, GM sensors, Switches, Performance Header, Bigger Injectors, Performance Manifold?
Or those type of things you guys want to get on your own? I could also sell, JUST the ECM/Wiring Harness, but obviously will need quiet a few things beyond that.
Im building these for you guys, I want to make this into a simple swap.
Other things I would like to do later on is an Adapter Plate/Spacer so if you would like to use the Fiero transmission, you can, but some of it requires a lot of machining on my part. but eliminates a few problems, and would only require you to do mounts for the engine.
To refresh your mind, the ecotec is extremely powerful but can also achieve awesome gas mileage. I got 47mpg for a 426 round trip. I thought the fuel gauge was broke at first! But I would put money on it, a well tuned ecotec stock besides needed mods. in a fiero would yeild 14s in the quarter mile, and better handling, being the engine weight is lighter than most.
j/k - at that point it would have to be a track toy. )
Build it and they will come.....
/ 
(depends on how you look at it)
Can't wait 
