I was kind of wondering why the video was there, but no show on the graph screen for the number....

http://www.fastfieros.com wondering checking in...

The output was listed in post 142 - prior to the video.

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: I took my gold GT over to get dyno'ed this morning. I want to get a general idea of what to expect with _____ mods and put together some packages. My car is a daily driver that has little mods. Just a 3.4 pulley, 3" CAI and catless exhaust. Today we put up cold: 279whp and 310tq Hot (3rd pull) we were at 262whp and 301tq I took a few videos and I'll post them up later. Next week, we will be adding 1.84 rockers, a ported inlet and outlet blower with filled silencers, a ported LIM, Northstar throttle body, 4" CAI and larger diameter exhaust. Then we will be taking the car back to get a few more pulls. I will also be taking the VR6 and Sabooo's over to get done as well. Dave

The place I took it to get dyno'ed is very strict about having cameras in their shop. It is a custom race shop. We were kinda limited to where we could point the camera. They all gave me the looks of disgust when I brought a Fiero to their shop. They seemed a little better when they heard the supercharger whine.
I posted the numbers up. I didn't think I needed proof. The numbers are very believable, and I have no reason to BS. I am doing this to get some rough numbers. Obviously, those numbers will change depending on altitude and temperature....but should be in the range. I have the dyno prinout that I could scan into the computer if I really need to back my words.
Dave

------------------

1987 GT (my toy-see above), 1987 GT 3800s/c, 1986 SE with a VW VR6, certified master technician/shop owner
www.njautobahn.com
www.hausofguru.com

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 09-01-2009).]

Those power numbers are not that strange, I have not had problems getting manual swaps in the 300 range with those mods.

I'm not sure, maybe people want to look at how the curve looks like. If it's "peaky", or if it's "progressive". At least I hope that's the reason.

Either way. Another great swap by the Haus of Guru. Hope more people will start using you for Fiero engine swaps. I love how clean the installs come out.

I'm definitely not trying to question the graph or the numbers or anything like that. I just wanted to see an approximation of what my fiero will make when I get all of the kinks worked out . Did you make adjustments to the pcm to get the 3.4 pulley to run well? I was thinking about going 3.4 without mods to my pcm (no tuners I know of around). It would be interesting to hear what you found on how it ran with a 3.4.

I just so happen to be using a 3" intake with a 2.5" exhaust as well, so this is VERY interesting to me!

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[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 09-01-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Austrian Import: I'm not sure, maybe people want to look at how the curve looks like. If it's "peaky", or if it's "progressive". At least I hope that's the reason. Either way. Another great swap by the Haus of Guru. Hope more people will start using you for Fiero engine swaps. I love how clean the installs come out.

its a SC 3800, the power will be dead flat peaking around 4500-5000 or so.

There are not many adjustments you need to make for a 3.4 with a manual trans setup... You basically can run a stock pcm and get these types of results. There is only a small amount of extra power on tap with tuning when you are so limited by flow capability.

I'll scan the dyno printout later or tonight. No offense taken.I'm not looking to put up big numbers, just get a feel for what the car can do. I don't expect the VR6 to put up big numbers, but that car is amazing to drive. It just keeps pulling and pulling.
Dave

I was just cheking out your site and was wondering what the average engine mileage was used in your swaps. Just checked out your site and looks awesome. I'm only like an hour away so this is amazing for when I'm ready for my planned 3800SC swap. I hated how I was going to have to ship my car out somewhere, but not now.

quote Originally posted by McNasty: I was just cheking out your site and was wondering what the average engine mileage was used in your swaps. Just checked out your site and looks awesome. I'm only like an hour away so this is amazing for when I'm ready for my planned 3800SC swap. I hated how I was going to have to ship my car out somewhere, but not now.

I purchase the lowest mileage/best maintained engines from a reliable source. Normally, I don't look for anything over 50,000 miles. The other options are: customer supplies his own engine (I hold no responsibility for it), we get a remanufactured engine from a reputable company.
I'll be updating the website soon. I also hope to be able to make a calendar to sell on PFF every year for the projects we have at the Haus.
Dave

Here is another project I am building at the Haus.

3400 heads are redone....




Here is what we are starting with....


Stripped it to the short block...


Prepped the head bolts. All holes will have a tap run through them to ensure proper torque of each component.




Head studs installed, sealed and measured to ensure the same height. The block holes are not blind holes, so we had to measure each stud length.




more to come....

edit to change picture size for better clarity.

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 09-06-2009).]

This one is going to be good

Daves ( BMWguru) dyno numbers are very believable and since I know him I can attest to the fact that he's a straight shooter. Dave is a full time pro auto technician so with his resources anything is possible .
We've agreed to a 1/4 mile shoot out this fall between my 3800SC and his, so this is going to get interesting. With his two man pit crew, a large shop and a professionally built engine he shouldn't lose this race or will the underdog prevail?

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

I for one would love to see that race....really just to meet you guys. (fast cars are fun too)

Turbo 3.1 build up.... hmm....

The turbo rods, pistons, and crank fit right in the later 3100 block, which has a superior block, with a stiff cast aluminum oil pan, beefier mains, better oiling, and a factory roller cam.

This is becoming an issue as most Chevy flat hydraulic lifters are too soft on the face and come from China, regardless of what the name on the box says.

Oh yeah, the 2000+ 3100s have better, big valve heads and nicer rockers too.

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Daves ( BMWguru) dyno numbers are very believable and since I know him I can attest to the fact that he's a straight shooter. Dave is a full time pro auto technician so with his resources anything is possible . We've agreed to a 1/4 mile shoot out this fall between my 3800SC and his, so this is going to get interesting. With his two man pit crew, a large shop and a professionally built engine he shouldn't lose this race or will the underdog prevail?

Sadly, I'm trying to find the power cord for my computer scanner.
Dennis, I think it will be a fun evening running our cars at E-Town. I have to do a few mods to my 3800s/c to be able to keep up with your's, so we'll have to plan it for a few weeks from now....maybe October. I do plan on running my car before the season end this year. I'd also like to bring my V8 out to the track and see what will break on it when I launch....lol.
Dave

Thanks for the pics Dave!

quote Originally posted by KurtAKX: Turbo 3.1 build up.... hmm.... The turbo rods, pistons, and crank fit right in the later 3100 block, which has a superior block, with a stiff cast aluminum oil pan, beefier mains, better oiling, and a factory roller cam. This is becoming an issue as most Chevy flat hydraulic lifters are too soft on the face and come from China, regardless of what the name on the box says. Oh yeah, the 2000+ 3100s have better, big valve heads and nicer rockers too.

Originally I was going to leave the engine sealed up and just put a decent turbo setup on it, but with the big turbo I got a killer deal on (new) and couldn't pass up, I couldn't fit it in where I wanted because the TGP intake/TB was in the way.
Those redone heads are from an '02 3400, not using the originals you see on the 3.1. It has the rest of the Gen III top end to go on as well, and that's all because it moves the TB to a location that doesn't interfere with the planned turbo placement. I wanted to eventually do that swap anyway, so this works out. WAY better flow.

I'm having Dave leave the bottom end original because later I'm going to build up a 3100 bottom end with stout rods and new .030 over TGP pistons (I hear they're available, need to verify... otherwise I'll have to spend more on custom 8.5:1 pistons), and it'll be O-ringed so I can run some real boost. For now it needs to run first and foremost, and it still won't do bad with what's there. I do hate flat-tappet cams, but it should work for now as that's all original. With the higher ratio of the Gen III rockers, the specs are very close to the stock Gen III cam so I don't expect it to make much less power than it would with the Gen III roller setup (which as I said, will happen later anyway).

I look forward to more pics Dave, and once you're into the turbo setup I'll plan a weekend to head up there and check out the progress in person.

3.1 with 3400 heads? why did you not go with the 3500 heads if doing a 60deg hybrid?


edit: you say your keeping the stock bottom end? isnt htat the setup that will bring you close to 11.5:1 compression?

[This message has been edited by hookdonspeed (edited 09-06-2009).]

3500 valves are too big for the 3.1 bore (they hit the cylinders), and I don't want a 3.4 to remedy that.

Stock Turbo Grand Prix (TGP) bottom end, sorry for the confusion. Compression will be right around 8.75:1 with the Gen III heads.

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 09-06-2009).]

Sweet build.

I totally understand the "need to get it running first" aspect.

I just can't help thinking what that bad boy would be like with 10% more displacement (3400) and the bigger (3500) heads. Ben (WOT-tech) was saying a couple years ago that his ported 3400 heads flowed the same as 3500 heads as-cast. More displacement means more torque and an earlier spool, more valve area and the steeper opening ramps of a roller cam means more power, it would be awesome.

Get'r'done!

what turbo?

Actually (not to split hairs but, alas... ) a 3.1/3100 is 3135.45 cc's and a 3.4/3400 is 3350.39 cc's, that's only 6.85% more displacement. The gap shrinks to 5.05% when the 3.1 is bored .030 over, which becomes a 3189.37 cc (later build, essentially a 3.2).

I've read of a few separate cases that when the same hard parts (cam, heads, intakes) are used and you only change displacement, they make very similar horsepower, but the larger bore (in this case) makes more peak torque and the smaller just shifts the powerband up a little. Case in point, GM rates the 2000+ 3100's (max) at 175hp, 195tq and the 3400's (max) at 185hp, 210tq. The only difference in hard parts is that the 3100 got a smaller throttlebody. Put the 3400 TB on the 3100 and the hp figures are a little closer even, without changing peak torque much. On top of that, a smaller bore is slightly more detonation resistant.

You said it right... "More displacement means more torque", that's the reason I won't go with a 3400 (or larger). Torque is fun and great, but it breaks things when pushed hard, particularly the eggshell Fiero trannies. This build will minimize the instant on-throttle torque while still putting down good hp numbers in the upper RPM's (upper for a stock cam and intake pushrod V6, that is). Low compression and low-ish displacement saves things. I think I'll still appreciate the low-end just fine, the big picture is that it's a reasonable displacement V6 in a light car, afterall.

As for the 3500 heads, yes they are better, but I'll let the boost take care of that. I plan on more than you typically see in boosted Fieros (15-18 with this bottom end on 93, 30ish with the stout O-ringed 3100 on race gas). The intercooler setup is going to be water/air with a REAL intercooler, not the Ebay junk. I'm completing that whole setup (as well as the after-turbo exhaust), I can't let Dave have ALL the fun! He's having lots of the fun, btw, because I'm sick with chronic health issues very often and have to concentrate my efforts on doing well at work, which takes up almost all of my time. I felt like I had to 'give up' having someone else complete this, but work is the most important, and they pay me well for what I do. At least my car is in very good hands, I can tell you that much.

It's a Borg-Warner S258 with a (machined to fit) Garrett T3 .82 A/R exhaust housing. I was originally going to go with a T3/T4 60 trim or close, but I happened upon this one late last year when I called Tim's Turbos in VA. They had this one sitting on the shelf because the guy who custom ordered it couldn't pay the $1400 so flaked out on them. Being that it was late in the year (Dec. 27th or thereabouts) with a tanked economy, they gave it to me for $800 so they could get it off the shelf before the end of the year. I couldn't pass it up.
The compressor map places this engine setup right in the sweet spot whether low boost or high, and high boost it can do! It remains usable up to 35psi. It'll max out at about 600whp which I won't ever get to, but I think 500whp is doable with my later planned 3.2. I could get a smaller turbo that'll spool faster and still be fine for this setup, but at this point I'd be more than happy just to have a N/A 3.1 Fiero, boost is just a very big plus!

[This message has been edited by ALLTRBO (edited 09-07-2009).]

quote I'll scan the dyno printout later or tonight.

You had me all excited, did your scanner break?

------------------

I want to get a general idea of what to expect with _____ mods and put together some packages.
My car is a daily driver that has little mods. Just a 3.4 pulley, 3" CAI and catless exhaust.
Today we put up cold: 279whp and 310tq
Hot (3rd pull) we were at 262whp and 301tq


Next week, we will be adding 1.84 rockers, a ported inlet and outlet blower with filled silencers, a ported LIM, Northstar throttle body, 4" CAI and larger diameter exhaust. Then we will be taking the car back to get a few more pulls.

With this dyno run, I see a lot of improvements that can be made. I'd like to see a smoother curve and not so choppy, so I'll me making some adjustments for that as well.

I will also be taking the VR6 and Sabooo's over to get done as well.

Dave

Thanks for the pics Dave - the engine bay looks incredible!

Cheers,
Rich

quote Originally posted by bmwguru:

LOL, the curves are the same shape as a 2.8, just twice as high.

quote Originally posted by KurtAKX: LOL, the curves are the same shape as a 2.8, just twice as high.

Which is where my confusion lays... It should be making more from 3000-4500 Maybe it is just the gear, I am used to seeing these with a bit smaller pulleys as well.

quote Originally posted by ace5514: I for one would love to see that race....really just to meet you guys. (fast cars are fun too)

Not to drift too far off topic but The Garden State Fiero Club is always open to new members and make no mistake about it, we dine well. There are a couple of events coming up so look on our website come on down and say hello.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

Dave....nice work. BTW, how are Rodney's new (zero lash) endlinks on the 88??

You can send me a PM with your experiance if you prefer that.

Thanks.

------------------
fierogt28

88 GT, loaded, 5-speed

Bump...

------------------
fierogt28

88 GT, loaded, 5-speed

quote Originally posted by fierogt28: Dave....nice work. BTW, how are Rodney's new (zero lash) endlinks on the 88?? You can send me a PM with your experiance if you prefer that. Thanks.

sorry, I must have missed this post. The links look great, easy to install. I haven't driven a car with them yet, but they do appear promising.
Dave

Time to update this thread....

This week at the Haus, we took my gold GT and added some horsepower to it. I upgraded the rockers to 1.84, added a ported lower intake manifold and supercharger, added a Northstar 75mm throttle body and upgraded the exhaust. The car is now amazing (for street use). There is the fine line between track and street and I believe that this is it. The car is a manual transmission and when at full throttle in second and third gear, you can hear the tires just barely breaking loose, but pulling hard. This is better than spinning and losing traction IMO. I could definitely drive this everyday. I'll be doing another dyno run soon to see how much more power we made from the mods.
before...




after...


Sabooo's car is receiving an engine upgrade from ZZP after a small setback.....





Alltrbo's car is coming together nicely....we had the head bolts pull the threads out of the block, so we removed the heads, studs and installed TIME-SERTS into the block. Soon enough, we should break out the TIG welder and make some cool stuff.











We are also swapping a series I engine in that is coming along nicely....I should have plenty of pics of that swap up soon. (I have plenty of before and in progress pics, but I'd like to show them with a mostly completed install)
We are fabricating a wiring harness for another member that dropped his Fiero off after he did a nice job installing his own 3800s/c.
and, Joey is heading out to the midwest early next week to pick up another swap for the Haus that we plan on starting in January.
Dave

Are you running a stock camshaft with those rockers? After the install, did you have to tune the computer for the added hardware? -Jason

It is the stock camshaft and valve springs. The 1.84 is the highest ratio you can run on stock springs. The pcm was sent to Darth for a retune.
Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 09-25-2009).]

Thanks for the info Dave, my setup is identical to yours (before your new upgrades) with the exception of my exhaust, I'm running 3" into my muffler... Who did your porting, or did you do it yourself? This sounds like an interesting upgrade. -Jason

[This message has been edited by Fierofreak00 (edited 09-25-2009).]

I purchased the ported LIM on club GP. The ported blower wasn't up to my standards, so I measured the inlet with a micrometer and ported it to 75mm. The silencer ports were then filled and the triangular output hole was made larger. It really was a simple procedure with the correct tools.
To port the s/c and intake it is really not a hard job....anyone with a dremel or die grinder can do it if they are patient.
Dave

Joey was here last night and picked up my car. It was sad to see it go, but it'll be good to get it back completed. We took several picks of the car going on to the trailer, some of which I may post, but they were emailed to Dave as well so he can decide what he wants on here.

I'm so excited, I feel like a kid at Christmas! A really long Christmas that I know what I'm getting but I can't have it for about 6 or 7 months.
Wait thats not like Christmas. Seriously, I can't wait to get this thing started in January and bring it home. Take care of my baby Dave!

quote Originally posted by vrossiter: Joey was here last night and picked up my car. It was sad to see it go, but it'll be good to get it back completed. We took several picks of the car going on to the trailer, some of which I may post, but they were emailed to Dave as well so he can decide what he wants on here. I'm so excited, I feel like a kid at Christmas! A really long Christmas that I know what I'm getting but I can't have it for about 6 or 7 months. Wait thats not like Christmas. Seriously, I can't wait to get this thing started in January and bring it home. Take care of my baby Dave!

Here are some pics from the "great trip west".















...and here it is back in NJ. Safe with the rest of the herd.



Dave

------------------

1987 GT (my toy-see above), 1987 GT 3800s/c, 1986 SE with a VW VR6, certified master technician/shop owner
www.njautobahn.com
www.hausofguru.com

Well, it looks like its in good company, and definately won't be lonely! Can you tell how sad I was! Again, thanks to Joey and MD (hope thats right!) for comin all the way out here to get it and thanks to you, Dave, for taking me on as one of your projects! Thanks guys and I have no doubt that my car is in the best greasy hands that it could be!
Oh, and by the way, did you get back to the dyno with yours yet? Can't wait to see the numbers!

[This message has been edited by vrossiter (edited 10-01-2009).]