A real stand up guy.

Jail and the Hospital are still possibilities.

Is there anyone in Texas that is willing to look this guy up?

so you gave him the title/car even though he still owed you money for it?

I'm glad we finally got this settled (11/21/13)

[This message has been edited by fierocarparts (edited 11-22-2013).]

Some pic would help some

------------------
1987 Black GT Custom interior with Mr. Mikes seats
Newly acquired 1985 coupe with series one 3800SC 5speed Getrag as a donor to the Fri Fri (87GT)

This thread isn't something I would normally take part in, but after reading through everything today I'm just going to say one thing...

...When a man makes a deal for a specific amount, and that amount was agreed upon by both parties, then I don't care what shape the vehicle or item was in. It's the responsibility of the buyer just as much as the seller to make sure they are getting what they pay for. Going back and trying to de-value an item once it's been purchased, and then not follow through with paying the agreed upon amount is just wrong, plain and simple, and it's a serious compromise of integrity and honesty.

Just my two cents....

Robert

Lets handle these individually, shall we.

While it is true I had never seen the car, you were fully informed of that fact. I laid out fully that I had no idea what condition the car was in. You could have gotten there and found an immaculate car or you could have found one that the frame was completely gone on. I lent no, I repeat, no credence to its condition whatsoever.

What you had or didn't have to put into the car is 100% irrelevant... Just as your profit margin is irrelevant. Heck, I wish you had made 10 grand on that bad boy so I could have been really jealous. I wouldn't have asked you for a dime more because the condition was immaculate. I was going to buy the car, you wanted to buy it instead, we made an agreement sight unseen, done deal. I passed on it for one reason: distance...well I guess it would be two as time is also related to distance. I have bought a few Fieros that I shouldn't have, and wouldn't have had I seen them first, but I made a deal and I stand up to my end of the bargains at all times regardless of cost. My word, as anyone will tell you on here, is my word. I stand by it. Unfortunately timing didn't work out for the parts you offered after you had made the deal for a certain amount of cash...I do understand you could substitute the parts faster than the cash but the deal you made was to pay me for a car, plain and simple..

It is true you could have come on and aired your dissappointment, at which point I would have shown that you fully knew I had never seen the car and that you were fully aware of that fact. If you would like we can both go back through our emails start posting them so people have a full understanding but it still comes down to this: you bought a car sight unseen by you or me and you knew full well that it was taking a chance. If you didn't want to take the chance you shouldn't have agreed and no one forced you to do so.


"So, I'll leave it up to you to explain exactly WHY you believe that I owe you $350 for a car that you had no idea about the TRUE condition of it".

I will post one PM you sent me here:

John, I haven't forgotten about you. I was hoping to have it covered by numerous sources. First my daughter's grant came back short (so dad is the last bill to get repaid). Guy didn't follow through on buying the 88 coupe that I purchased and was expecting to deliver at the same time as picking up the Indy. And last night I got numerous offers on my bumper for $500 so I set that as my reserve and it didn't even hit that. I've taken a deposit on the 88 coupe for pickup on Saturday. I will make good on our agreement.
Thanks for your patience,
Steve
----- Original Message -----
Just wanted to let you know the 350 hasn't shown up in my Paypal account.

You knew full well whn you made the deal that I had never seen it. Bottom line is this: You made a deal. Be a man, keep your word, and pay your debts. What you say below is true...it is a caseof buyer beware...and again you made a deal...man up and pay for the deal you made.

quote Originally posted by fierocarparts: Johnny, As this is my first time back on PFF in over a year, I have offered to give you parts in exchange for your SERVICES concerning the Indy. IF you are wanting to air things out in public, that is your right. But PLEASE do explain to the good people that would read this and get the wrong impression, how it came about that I would owe you $350 for a car you never touched or laid eyes on to verify the condition of the vehicle you "sold" me. As far as reselling the car for a "profit", I had to do EXTENSIVE work and install valuable parts on the vehicle to not lose my butt on the car. If you factor in the cost to retrieve the vehicle (don't even factor in time), the vehicle wasn't worth the expense to retrieve, much less the money I gave the owner of the car. Problem was that I had already invested quite a bit of money to go get this vehicle that the owner misled you as to the condition. I SHOULD have NOT spent 2 hours getting the car out of the field in order to tow it back 5 hours (drove 5 to get it). I should've let you come all the way from Florida to see that the car was hardly worth the asking price for someone to pick up local. I SHOULD'VE taken my loss on driving up there and seeing the vehicle. I explained to you that you had been misled as to the condition of the vehicle, but you were unyielding on the amount that I "owed" you. I could have come onto this forum express my disappointment over our transaction, but it was a case of buyer beware. I have confidence that had you ACTUALLY seen the car, you would've known that it was not worth it. Or maybe you did, seeing how you passed on driving all the way from Florida to Oklahoma for "such a bargain". So, I'll leave it up to you to explain exactly WHY you believe that I owe you $350 for a car that you had no idea about the TRUE condition of it.

[This message has been edited by johnyrottin (edited 09-19-2011).]

Somebody should just pay up, end of story. The "details" are totally irrelevant.

I won't go into the blame game but, deals that go bad like this always end up costing someone more than it's worth. Don't care what the deal was, I know I won't buy anything based on what I've read until the situation is resolved. I'm not taking sides, only reading what was posted.

I transport cars for folks all the time, I expect payment, half up front and the second half upon delivery (prior to unloading). I've been burnt before with the I can't be at the delivery address but I'll send you a check. Guess what, never got that check. I've also transported cars where I lost my butt on the deal due to circumstances or bad luck and spent more on the delivery than I made. So, I can relate to Johnny's plight. If I don't stand up to the agreement I made, I'll never get another load.

That's the situation you're in, either live up to your word and learn from it or, find another way to make money because, most of us won't do business with someone that can't keep their word. There are folks on this board that I'll deal with anytime and I know will deal with me based solely on a conversation because, we are men of our word. Enough said.

------------------
Ron

quote Originally posted by blackrams: There are folks on this board that I'll deal with anytime and I know will deal with me based solely on a conversation because, we are men of our word. Enough said.

Amen.

This was from more than a year ago and covers the point of the parts offer for partial payment. While I did appreciate the offer they were a bit higher than the other offer I got...still waiting on you sending the money "later today".

Oh I understood he only had a couple of items. Will be sending money later today. Thanks for your patience.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
Got everything...30 bucks...thanks for the offer though. Well, everything except mats but one of the guys is looking.
Cheers
John

----- Original Message -----
I don't have the mats but have everything else. $200 off what I owe you,shipped to you. LMK.
Thanks,
Steve

[This message has been edited by johnyrottin (edited 09-22-2011).]

....

[This message has been edited by fierocarparts (edited 09-23-2011).]

"I'm confused by some people's postings, so if someone told you that they were selling you a clean, nice car that only needed gas changed out, and you spent $500 to get there, when you showed up and saw a rat infested junker, you'd go ahead and give them $6,000 for it?
Just so you can keep your word?"

Are you implying that I falsified the information about the vehicle that I had never seen? That I did not fully informed you that I had never seen it? The one that I was going to grab myself? Again, the bottom line is you 100% knew that the Indy was unseen by me or anyone else on the forum. No person mislead you telling you were getting a "clean, nice car that only the gas needed to be changed out". And actually, yes, if I made the promise I would keep my word. My integrity and honour are worth far more to me than six grand. You had ALL the information that I had. That car could have easily been parted out for more than $350 dollars just for the Indy specific items on it. Like I said, it would have been awesome had you gotten there and found a gold mine in an actual pace car or whetever. Neither I nor anyone else would have begrudged you at all. I would have been a bit jealous and asked for a ride or something in it before you sold it on and maybe a picture or ten but that would be it.

You made a deal... be a man and hold up your end of the bargain.

BTW, the date on the emails above were Feb of 2010...that is over a year and a half now.

[This message has been edited by johnyrottin (edited 09-23-2011).]

....

[This message has been edited by fierocarparts (edited 09-23-2011).]

Wait. So this whole thread, and you going into another thread and commenting about this situation, is all over a car you never even saw/owned?

Heck, I wish the people that owed me money only owed me $350.

.....?

[This message has been edited by fierocarparts (edited 09-23-2011).]

quote Originally posted by fierocarparts: I've been thinking about it Johnny, you're right! I made a deal with you for a specific amount. I'm going to send you the money. If you feel that you deserve the money that much and you need it that bad, then by all means, you deserve it. You say that $6000 is worth your word and integrity, then I'm sure that selling information that you find out is false, you will have problems keeping the money that I will send you. BUT, if you have no problems keeping the money, well then, what does that have to say for you?

It has nothing to do with what I feel or need...you made a deal and you knew that I had never seen the car. you knew exactly what I knew. Keeping the money for selling false information? Was it not an Indy Pace Car? Had I actually seen it when I told you I had not? Was I not planning to go get it? Hmmm, I struggle to comprenhend your logic there. When I do get money I don't keep multiple accounts based on where the money came from. I have a savings, a checking, and an investment accounts. Out of that I donate 10% or more to my church, we do $2000 dollars to our local homeless shelter in the form of male and female hygene products that we buy in bulk from our local bath and body works and the Dollar Tree, I donate to the Air Force during their fund drive but that goes to many different charities. I run a soccer team and a lacrosse team that I donate tons of hours and money to....I think it would be imposssible to track exactly which dollar of the $350 would be your exact dollars. I kept my word to you...I told you all I knew about that car and where its location was. You fully knew I had not seen it. Had I not told you about not seeing it, had I told you it was a near perfect example of a Pace Car that only needed the fuel changed, had I mislead you in any way about the location I would suck it up, apologize, and attempt to make good on my word...not offer comments trying to make myself feel better about going back on my word after a deal was made by trying to make the other fellow feel bad for not having all the information that was possible to obtain. You made a decision based on exactly what was available, exactly what I knew. No person twisted your arm, forced you, or coerced you in any way. You made a deal of your own free will. In fact, if I remember correctly, you said you were going to be up in that area so you wouldn't have to make a special trip. You also could have not taken the car home.

the bottom lline is that you made a deal, You followed your end of the deal right up to the point where you paid for it. It is time to finish your end of the bargain.

dobey, I think the point is, it doesn`t really matter the circumstances or even if someone wasted x amount of dollars for a piece of junk or nothing at all.
As Blackrams state above, it all boils down to giving someone their "word" about payment for something.


I have no dog in this hunt, I like everyone, just have an opinion.

[This message has been edited by TXGOOD (edited 09-23-2011).]

....

[This message has been edited by fierocarparts (edited 09-23-2011).]

Sheesh..

Ok, so just so we are all clear let me see if I have the gist of what's going on;

johnyrottin finds this indy (how doesn't matter)
Somehow fierocarparts finds out about it (how does matter, did you ask for one, wtb thread, johnyrotting thought you'd be interested for whatever reason?)

Johny tells steve he will tell him where it is for a finders fee of $350 and passes along all known information to steve.

Steve goes and finds out it's a hunk of crap and johny was lied to and tries to renegotiate on the finders fee by substituting parts instead.

They don't come to an agreement and even though the car was not what was described to johny, johny still feels he is owed the finders fee for this car.

Did I miss anything?

If that is the case, I see it from both points of view. Me personally though, since it wasn't as described I would think if I was johny I would just tell steve not to worry about the finders fee. That might just be me personally though since I probably wouldn't even charge someone a finders fee either way, unless they specifically asked in a WTB thread or something and I went out of my way to find it for them and they were offering.

But it could just be me. So, in summary, if I was johny, since johny was lied to and steve got to deal with the aggravation of that car for me, I would tell him thanks for saving me the time, sorry it didn't work out so well for you, don't worry about the $350.

It could just be me though.

O, and I would feel completely different if this had been a story about how johny actually owned the car, (which is what his first post suggests), and steve showed up and agreed to a price and still owed $350.

Just to be clear

quote Originally posted by johnyrottin:The Indy I sold him has been sold on, at a profit mind you, and the new owner and I have been talking.

quote Originally posted by johnyrottin: The fact is he bought the car and aggreed a price. He picked up the car and gave his word on payment. He has since sold the car. At any point in this he could have paid me.... But the fact remains, he made a purchase, he hasn't paid for, he sold it and stil hasn't paid for it....

quote Originally posted by johnyrottin: you made a deal and you knew that I had never seen the car. you knew exactly what I knew.

quote Originally posted by johnyrottin: Are you implying that I falsified the information about the vehicle that I had never seen? That I did not fully informed you that I had never seen it? The one that I was going to grab myself? Again, the bottom line is you 100% knew that the Indy was unseen by me or anyone else on the forum.

So, I personally don't think steve owes him money. I personally think johny is trying to distort what exactly happened in his first post and make steve look bad for not paying up.

Seriously johny, steve did you a favor by not making you waste your time, let it go

Before you fly off the handle at me, I have a guy that owes me (right now) $400 for a truck I sold him over a year ago. Sure I still have the title, but he has the truck. BUT I actually owned the truck, therefore that is a very different situation but I do know what it's like to be owed money for legit reasons, I just don't think this situation is one of them, sorry

[This message has been edited by cooguyfish (edited 09-23-2011).]

I have a question.

Did Johnny put a deposit on the car, and the money he's asking from Steve go to cover him getting his deposit back?

If so, then this makes sense.

If Johnny didn't have anything invested in this car, and he just gave up the location, I have two questions...

Why is that worth $350

If the car was such a heap, why was it purchased?

To me, these are the most important questions. How someone found out about this car isn't really all that pertinent. Then there's the "gave your word" part. I hate to say this, because I take my word VERY seriously, but this is the internet. If you're really counting on everyone's word on here, then you're going to spend a lot of time being disappointed.

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 09-23-2011).]

WOW! thats is one heck of a finders few...lol

------------------


87 GT
series 1 3800sc (7.597 @88.53 1.579 60ft)

Not quite how it happened...The car was 100% exactly as described...sight unseen and in unknown condition.


I was going to buy it. I did offer it up as it was a haul for me from Florida. Steve explained his interest....don't know if it was for a personal car or a strip it to sell car (that would be none of my business nor relevent in context.) We agreed a price as I was the current purchaser after the owner had agreed to sell it to me. (he stood by his word) Steve travelled to it and I can't tell you what condition it was in running, driving, no motor etc but obviously wasn't a hunk of crap as it was saved and is being driven now. Steve agreed to pay me and made many promises to send the money over the next while but then just fell off teh face of the earth. Steve at one time offered some parts for a car I was finishing for Brian's Build to the tune of 200 of the 350 he owed me. A member had already sold me the same pack of parts for 30. The car was exactly as it was described by me....sight unseen with no promises as to condition. Steve took a chance and bought it at the negotited price of 350 dollars. No renegotiated deals, just an offer of parts as part of his payment.

Owning the car is irrelevant. The fee was for the information or the car...however you want to view it. I would have picked it up had Steve not taken it at the agreed upon figure of $350. The onwer had already agreed that I was the purchaser and wouldn't have let it go otherwise. I had no deposit in place...just an agreement.

quote Originally posted by cooguyfish: Ok, so just so we are all clear let me see if I have the gist of what's going on; johnyrottin finds this indy (how doesn't matter) Somehow fierocarparts finds out about it (how does matter, did you ask for one, wtb thread, johnyrotting thought you'd be interested for whatever reason?) Johny tells steve he will tell him where it is for a finders fee of $350 and passes along all known information to steve. Steve goes and finds out it's a hunk of crap and johny was lied to and tries to renegotiate on the finders fee by substituting parts instead. They don't come to an agreement and even though the car was not what was described to johny, johny still feels he is owed the finders fee for this car. Did I miss anything? If that is the case, I see it from both points of view. Me personally though, since it wasn't as described I would think if I was johny I would just tell steve not to worry about the finders fee. That might just be me personally though since I probably wouldn't even charge someone a finders fee either way, unless they specifically asked in a WTB thread or something and I went out of my way to find it for them and they were offering. But it could just be me. So, in summary, if I was johny, since johny was lied to and steve got to deal with the aggravation of that car for me, I would tell him thanks for saving me the time, sorry it didn't work out so well for you, don't worry about the $350. It could just be me though. O, and I would feel completely different if this had been a story about how johny actually owned the car, (which is what his first post suggests), and steve showed up and agreed to a price and still owed $350. Just to be clear [QUOTE]Originally posted by johnyrottin: Are you implying that I falsified the information about the vehicle that I had never seen? That I did not fully informed you that I had never seen it? The one that I was going to grab myself? Again, the bottom line is you 100% knew that the Indy was unseen by me or anyone else on the forum.

So, I personally don't think steve owes him money. I personally think johny is trying to distort what exactly happened in his first post and make steve look bad for not paying up.

Seriously johny, steve did you a favor by not making you waste your time, let it go

Before you fly off the handle at me, I have a guy that owes me (right now) $400 for a truck I sold him over a year ago. Sure I still have the title, but he has the truck. BUT I actually owned the truck, therefore that is a very different situation but I do know what it's like to be owed money for legit reasons, I just don't think this situation is one of them, sorry

[/QUOTE]

[This message has been edited by johnyrottin (edited 09-23-2011).]

......

[This message has been edited by fierocarparts (edited 09-23-2011).]

I gave my word to Neverdone about driving to look at some rims for him and his project...I gave my word and it ends up being a 1 hour 20 min drive each way. Did I ask anything for the service? No. Did I say, "Well that is farther than I thought" or "They aren't as close as you said so I am not going through with the deal?" No. I put my end of the bargain together and went and viewed them. I took them home, had them boxed and shipped them to the tune of over 200 bucks out of my wallet on the "word" that he will reimburse me. I also told him he owes me nothing other than exactly what was spent on shipping. Nadda...because that was the deal we agreed to...my word...my bond. I didn't try to snake them out from under him which would have been easy to do...I didn't try to pump up the costs or any other stuff the such as. We both gave our word and we both followed up on our word.

BTW, if you haven't seen those PT Cruiser Boyd Coddington wheels you need to check them out!

....

[This message has been edited by fierocarparts (edited 09-23-2011).]

You know I was going to stay out of this but since I was braught up, JERRY, JERRY, JERRY! Its on now my brothas! First off, I put out a broad question asking if anyone was near the location of the wheels. Johny said he was. i forwarded him the link to the wheels. HE got in contact with the guy. HE set up a time to go look at them AFTER seeing how far it was from him. He drove out there anyway because HE kept HIS WORD. HE called me when HE got there and explained detail by detail what these looked like, and sent me pics. We agreed that HE would take the wheels and keep them untill I paypaled the owner the money. I did. Then Johny went at his earliest convinience to the ups store and they got shipped out today. BEFORE I ever gave him the money to do so. And, it was more than what we expected it to be. I could have easily just said I would send the money and never do it and never logged on to this forum again.

Second, its so good to know that there are some nice trustworthy people out there and this planet is not going to hell. Why anyone would ever "charge" someone for doing them a favor is beyond me. I flat out told Johny that I would be more than happy to send him some money for his time and gas. He said "No. just pay it forward when you have the chance." (Im still going to send you something though!) Thats what we should do for eachother not only as humans but especially as fellow Fiero fanatics! (alliteration intentional!)

Third, I am a member of N.T.F.C. I have been for a long time. Even after I didnt have a Fiero for about 8 years. Ive been at several meetings and while I will not bash anyone personally, a big reason why I quit going was because some (not all) of the guys are just plain dicks. Thats right I said it. They are. Just because you own a prestine Fiero that only comes out about as many times as you have sex doesnt mean that you can go around acting like a complete tool. We know you have a nice ride and you take care of it but, come on man, really?! I may be a young kid(30 but feel 20!) but I sure do act alot more like a man than some people on here!

"And that is my final thaught. Take care of yourself, and eachother."

[This message has been edited by NEVERDONE (edited 09-23-2011).]

OK, I really have no business in this, BUT I have one more thing to say. Both of you have gone on and on about how you think you're good people. You give to your church, you do favors for people, yadda yadda yadda.

If you're such great people, why are you still beating this dead horse?

Steve, if you want this over, pay him and be done with it. You said you would, just do it.

Johnny, $350 for a finder's fee on a car that wasn't even yours and turned out to be a piece? Really? Just let it go if he doesn't pay. If you're such a good person, why are you expecting to profit off of a sale of something that wasn't even yours? I've had agreements with people, then have let them out of it because it didn't go how it was supposed to. You demanding payment like this, on something that's questionable that you even expected payment on, isn't showing a very positive side of you.

At this point, I would day I'd probably avoid doing business with either of you. I don't know that Steve would follow through, and I don't know if Johnny would be charging me more than what he should. You both have reputations to think of. That's my last post in this thread.

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 09-23-2011).]

Sorry to hear that you have had bad experiences with NTFC.

[This message has been edited by fierocarparts (edited 09-23-2011).]

^ you didnt have to buy the car man.

mptighe, now that hurts...you have bought something from me and it was exactly as stated and I thought it was a great deal! Of course we both have reputations and I in no way want to stain Steve's or anyone else, least of all mine. Sorry it took me a few hours to PM a paypalaccount Steve....I had my son at the doctors but feel free to use that as an excuse. You have had my paypal account sent to you many times before. As was previously mentioned, I can pull them out of all the PMs if you would like a few of the dates. If you had taken a moment to look you would find that I removed all reference to this from all other posts prior to departing to the doctors. Why? Because it wasn't right for me to spill this over into other posts...(I apologise to thoseI spilled over to) I did send a PM to you as soon as I got home. Interesting choice of words: cyberbullying, extortion. Facts maybe...but neither of those, I believe.

As for your question, "what does doing someone else a favor have to do with our discussion? (It shows I don't ask for anyone to do anything for me except keep their promise/word.)
Two, you had NO idea that the wheels were 1.5 hours away from your house? Did you start driving before you knew where you were going? (I gave my word prior to knowing how far they were)
Or was it that you agreed before knowing all the facts and made an agreement? (Yes, refer to the previous statement)
Given that you knew ALL the facts upfront, would you have even MADE the agreement. (Yep, would have done it anyway. Better than him driving from Houston!)

I hope the member that you did a favor for joins NTFC. It is a great organization. I look forward to meeting them. (he probably will...he seems to be a great guy.)

All of this is a mute point. I've agreed to pay you.
I agree to pay you for a crappy "product" even though you expect a FULL refund when you receive something LESS than you expected. (You got exactly the product I conveyed, a sight unseen unknown condition car...could have been worth a dollar or it could have been the barn find of the century...it is irrelevant)
Forward your PP acct info, so I can post payment for an inferior product. (PM sent again)

[This message has been edited by johnyrottin (edited 09-23-2011).]

I just found an Indy for sale in Ohio. Only $200......... For $350 I'll give you the phone #. I must receive payment in full first........ And yes, I already know I have issues but couldn't resist posting this.

I saw that as well...and thought the same thing....that's so twisted!!! It is very near the one I almost went and got. It was an almost completely disassembled car that a husband had started putting back together when he passed. I offered her around 5 grand for it and was fully kitted up, rented trailer and all. She called around 3am (my departure time approx) to tell me she had changed her mind on the price and wanted more for it. I passed and was dissappointed. Lost 100 on the trailer on that one but at least I didn't drive 16 hours each way to find she changed her mind! Had a few people look at the motor pictures on the net. Originally believed it to be a Super Duty but details lacked. We ended up believing it was not an SD motor. I still wanted to get it fully sorted and invite her to drive it at Indy. That was her husbands dream. I was going to try to make it happen. It wasn't a small increase in price...like 2000 more or something like that.

I wonder if it is the same car? If anyone views it and sees a baby blue block with the SD air canister it may be one in the same.

[This message has been edited by johnyrottin (edited 09-23-2011).]

.

[This message has been edited by fierocarparts (edited 09-23-2011).]

hey...48.25! Well what do you know. Only 301.75 left. Good luck with the parts sales! The seat covers look really nice condition.