I got a confirmation from Dave at Autowerks that he received my transmission. He'll send an update when they tear it down. He said his supplier had the LSD's in stock, but we'll see what happens. I'll just watch everyone else's progress until mine starts again

They say "No news is good news". I wish I was a more patient person, but I'm not. How are the other projects coming? At least let me live vicariously through someone else.

quote Originally posted by mptighe: They say "No news is good news". I wish I was a more patient person, but I'm not. How are the other projects coming? At least let me live vicariously through someone else.

it is a race to get Charlie's car done and my gold GT done before your transmission gets back

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 05-11-2011).]

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: Besides, wasn't a pic of Ryan washing the car with his shirt tied up funny enough for now? Dave

Uh, no. Maybe a bit disturbing, Dave.

[This message has been edited by kyunderdawg (edited 05-12-2011).]

quote Originally posted by kyunderdawg: Uh, no. Maybe a bit disturbing, Dave.

You should see the "other pic".... I had to soak my eyes in bleach

quote Originally posted by mptighe: You should see the "other pic".... I had to soak my eyes in bleach

Well, considering some of the shinanagins that go on inside the shop doors, I wouldn't be suprised

Just got a call from Dave at Performance Autowerks. The transmission is being finished and should ship out tomorrow. Dave (bmwguru) says he's finishing up some of his other projects and should be ready to hit the ground running when the transmission gets there.

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 05-23-2011).]

Very anxious to see how your tranny works out. That's going to be the next upgrade for me.

Thanks Charlie,

Transmission hasn't shown up yet, but Dave is pulling the motor today. I've been preoccupied looking for another car for my daily driver. Hopefully it won't be too long until the daily driver sits while I terrorize Houston in the Fiero

quote Originally posted by mptighe: Thanks Charlie, Transmission hasn't shown up yet, but Dave is pulling the motor today. I've been preoccupied looking for another car for my daily driver. Hopefully it won't be too long until the daily driver sits while I terrorize Houston in the Fiero

LOL....Did I already ask.... Are you taking it to the track, dyno?

quote Originally posted by nosrac: LOL....Did I already ask.... Are you taking it to the track, dyno?

Dyno for sure, Dave will be dyno tuning it. Track.... we'll see ....

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 06-03-2011).]

Dave said the oil coming out of the old engine looked like a milkshake.... So the new engine arrived today and he said it looked pretty nice, and that he was getting ready to inspect it and make sure it was what I paid for. Hopefully there will be more news and pics soon.

I had the chance to checkover the series III engine we purchased yesterday. It looked very clean and I see it has been maintained for the 20,000 miles it has on it. The leakdown test proved no ring or valve issues. No sludge under the valve covers or in the lifter valley.

I installed the aluminum flywheel and Spec stage 3+ clutch.









I almost had the engine and transmission mounted to the cradle today, but it took me a lot longer to cut the welded transmission mount off the frame and straighten out and reinforce the frame. I plan to make the F40 mount up with bolt in poly mounts on my swaps using the factory or Rodney Dickman getrag mounts.

Next week, I plan to swap out the camshaft, 130lb valve springs and install a double roller timing chain, install the drivetrain, and measure for the axles. Then it is time to start on the turbo setup.

Dave

Looking great. Can't wait to see everything progress.

quote Originally posted by mptighe: Looking great. Can't wait to see everything progress.

It looked great Friday when I saw it while I was there for my car. I'm watching your project to see how your turbo setup turns out. Will probably be my next upgrade along with a 6 speed swap.

quote Originally posted by Charlie64: It looked great Friday when I saw it while I was there for my car. I'm watching your project to see how your turbo setup turns out. Will probably be my next upgrade along with a 6 speed swap.

Thanks Charlie,

I honestly though a lot more people would have been interested in this, but given all the naysayers, maybe it's best that this thread is fairly anonymous. That's ok, when it's done it will be an original. Unlike what other people say, I don't need to be the absolute fastest in a straight line in order to consider my car to be fast. Not to mention Dave assures me I won't have to keep putting my car in the shop after this.... DUH, WINNING!

I've been following this thread anonymously .... cant wait to see the end result !!! .... added to my favorites ... ooohh now I'm not anonymous anymore

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My build Thread
http://www.tylerstoy.com

quote Dave assures me I won't have to keep putting my car

Not to question anything, but that is a bold statement to make when doing a large collection of things that have never been done successfully at this level before.

The 2 manual transmission turbo 3800 fieros that I know of had had large piles of problems.... And they were in the hands of experienced drivers / builders (aka, they both have done 3800 turbo stuff before, as well as high performance manual transmission stuff).

quote I don't need to be the absolute fastest in a straight line in order to consider my car to be fast.

"straight line" is the easy part, its everything else that is hard. If anyone else comparable is faster in a straight line, they are faster in anything else. If "fast" is a comparison to the other average modified car out there... then there are other issues that we discussed previously.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: "straight line" is the easy part, its everything else that is hard. If anyone else comparable is faster in a straight line, they are faster in anything else. If "fast" is a comparison to the other average modified car out there... then there are other issues that we discussed previously.

My VR6 Fiero build currently has over 30,000 miles on it since its completion....and over 250,000 on the chassis. It has been driven to Kentucky and back to visit KYunderdawg, Boston, MA, and all around town.
I am building Michael a "fun" turbo 3800 with a six speed manual transmission. we are basically taking everything that has been done to the car and starting over. Michael is letting me build it my way, but I am checking with him on every step. I am not going to discuss what we are doing to the build yet, but I am sure that dyno numbers and videos will follow.
Dave

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: My VR6 Fiero build currently has over 30,000 miles on it since its completion....and over 250,000 on the chassis. It has been driven to Kentucky and back to visit KYunderdawg, Boston, MA, and all around town. I am building Michael a "fun" turbo 3800 with a six speed manual transmission. we are basically taking everything that has been done to the car and starting over. Michael is letting me build it my way, but I am checking with him on every step. I am not going to discuss what we are doing to the build yet, but I am sure that dyno numbers and videos will follow. Dave

Pretty much. This is why we're not trying to compete with the extreme speed guys. Extreme anything means less reliability. If I take care of the car, it should take care of me right? Well if my goal is to be fast but not so fast as to cause major stress issues, then the car should be more reliable then say someone who breaks axles. Once you try to push something to it's limits, it's a much higher probability that it will eventually reach them. What happens when you reach them? I am sick of not being able to enjoy my cars because this is wrong, or that is wrong. We're making sure everything is right. If I break something due to abuse, than that's on me. If something breaks due to poor design or quality, then that was something that should have been avoided. I believe I've learned my lesson with this finally.

Dark, in all seriousness, how often does having 500+ WHP actually make a difference over having 450 (ish) WHP? Only during racing right? What percentage of driving your car is actually spent WOT racing? Your claim on Club GP is that you have the fastest DAILY DRIVEN 3800 Fiero. Well, do you drive it for racing daily? I don't need the extra 100 (ish) WHP to keep up with you considering I'm street driving most of the time. My car will also be fun to drive, which honestly your car wouldn't be because I HATE autos. I know you have tunnel vision about this stuff, but surely you can understand my point here. My car is being built to have a bit more power than the SC 3800's, with the advantage of better mileage from the turbo and the 6 speed, but to have the same reliability. I believe Dave can pull it off.

Here's the question, if he does, will you take your words back or keep saying "it's only a matter of time"? What is the minimum amount of time that the car will have to run before we deem it to be reliable? What is the minimum speed it will have to go before it's deemed fast (not fastest, just fast)? If these things are just opinion on your part, then you'll have to see that your opinion as a bystander isn't quite relevant.

That said, I am glad you're following this, and do hope you continue to.

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 06-17-2011).]

You got your car in with the best dude. I just jumped in line for a 3800 swap from the Haus 9 months from now... im at wits end with my IMSA so im turning it over to dave to get it running.

Hey Dave please explain what you had to do to the cradle? I didn't fully understand during our phone conversation. I also want people to know how badly the old attempt from SSP was designed, and how it would have impacted anything we did.

quote Originally posted by mptighe: Pretty much. This is why we're not trying to compete with the extreme speed guys. Extreme anything means less reliability. If I take care of the car, it should take care of me right? Well if my goal is to be fast but not so fast as to cause major stress issues, then the car should be more reliable then say someone who breaks axles. Once you try to push something to it's limits, it's a much higher probability that it will eventually reach them. What happens when you reach them? I am sick of not being able to enjoy my cars because this is wrong, or that is wrong. We're making sure everything is right. If I break something due to abuse, than that's on me. If something breaks due to poor design or quality, then that was something that should have been avoided. I believe I've learned my lesson with this finally. Dark, in all seriousness, how often does having 500+ WHP actually make a difference over having 450 (ish) WHP? Only during racing right? What percentage of driving your car is actually spent WOT racing? Your claim on Club GP is that you have the fastest DAILY DRIVEN 3800 Fiero. Well, do you drive it for racing daily? I don't need the extra 100 (ish) WHP to keep up with you considering I'm street driving most of the time. My car will also be fun to drive, which honestly your car wouldn't be because I HATE autos. I know you have tunnel vision about this stuff, but surely you can understand my point here. My car is being built to have a bit more power than the SC 3800's, with the advantage of better mileage from the turbo and the 6 speed, but to have the same reliability. I believe Dave can pull it off. Here's the question, if he does, will you take your words back or keep saying "it's only a matter of time"? What is the minimum amount of time that the car will have to run before we deem it to be reliable? What is the minimum speed it will have to go before it's deemed fast (not fastest, just fast)? If these things are just opinion on your part, then you'll have to see that your opinion as a bystander isn't quite relevant. That said, I am glad you're following this, and do hope you continue to.

Great reply. Its sad to see that even the 3800 crowd eats their own. I had the same conversation with the V8 haters. Some people just don't understand that you can want more power (fun) and not have to go to the drag stip every weekend to prove how big your **** is. Fun is driving your car, as fast as you want, taking it to your limits with a smile on your face the whole time. I think it has to be youth who think that everything boils down to how fast you are, or how much HP you have. Me, I just love driving my car.

Rob

As of today, the drivetrain mounting is 100% complete. I designed the mounting brackets to be used with Rodney Dickman's Getrag poly mounts, so that if the mounts wear out, they can be easily replaced. When I design things, my goal is to be serviced with reasonable ease and longevity.

As for the cradle, the mounts were welded on, so I had to grind the welds, repair and smooth the cradle mounting spots out to put it back to stock. I did leave the front mount welded in because it didn't seem to be causing an issue, and the poly mount can be replaced in the future if need be.

I told Michael that I would prefer to leave the build specs private until we are done with the build due to too many opinions on what we should build. Let's just say that I did my research and spent time on the phone with Turbonetics discussing the goals of this build and we picked out the turbo that will help us achieve what we want without going overboard.

I installed the camshaft yesterday and hope to install the valve springs on Monday. Ryan will start fabricating the exhaust system sometime within the next week or two, and I plan to POR 15 the cradle and engine bay. I removed Michael's timing cover to reuse his double roller timing chain and to my surprise, I found a stock chain installed. With that being said, I plan to drop the gas tank to ensure that the fuel pump that was supposed to be installed will meet our needs.

Other than that, the F40 swap part of the build is not bad at all to do and I plan to offer them at my shop for all 3800 series II and III.

Dave

quote Originally posted by qwikgta: Great reply. Its sad to see that even the 3800 crowd eats their own. I had the same conversation with the V8 haters. Some people just don't understand that you can want more power (fun) and not have to go to the drag stip every weekend to prove how big your **** is. Fun is driving your car, as fast as you want, taking it to your limits with a smile on your face the whole time. I think it has to be youth who think that everything boils down to how fast you are, or how much HP you have. Me, I just love driving my car. Rob

Thanks for this. Yeah it surprised me that the 3800 guys were so pessimistic. With all the hype about 3800, all the hype about turbos, and all the hype about a 6 speed, you'd think the first Fiero to combine them would generate a lot more excitement. If this car came the way Dave's building it, they never would have stopped production. Oh well, I'm going to giggle like a schoolgirl when I drive this I'm sure. Bring on the haters!!

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: As of today, the drivetrain mounting is 100% complete. I designed the mounting brackets to be used with Rodney Dickman's Getrag poly mounts, so that if the mounts wear out, they can be easily replaced. When I design things, my goal is to be serviced with reasonable ease and longevity. As for the cradle, the mounts were welded on, so I had to grind the welds, repair and smooth the cradle mounting spots out to put it back to stock. I did leave the front mount welded in because it didn't seem to be causing an issue, and the poly mount can be replaced in the future if need be. I told Michael that I would prefer to leave the build specs private until we are done with the build due to too many opinions on what we should build. Let's just say that I did my research and spent time on the phone with Turbonetics discussing the goals of this build and we picked out the turbo that will help us achieve what we want without going overboard. I installed the camshaft yesterday and hope to install the valve springs on Monday. Ryan will start fabricating the exhaust system sometime within the next week or two, and I plan to POR 15 the cradle and engine bay. I removed Michael's timing cover to reuse his double roller timing chain and to my surprise, I found a stock chain installed. With that being said, I plan to drop the gas tank to ensure that the fuel pump that was supposed to be installed will meet our needs. Other than that, the F40 swap part of the build is not bad at all to do and I plan to offer them at my shop for all 3800 series II and III. Dave

Nice..... Man this is happening much faster than I imagined. I'm going to have to launch my "pay for this" plan. I wonder how my wife will react to waking up in a bath tub full of ice, with a note on her that says "Don't worry honey many people live just fine with one kidney. Go ahead and call 911, and remember it's for the good of our marriage."

The turbo had a milkshake pouring out of the oil drain and conciderable amount of play. We were originally going to build a hybrid turbo, but with what I wanted to see in the turbo, it was easier to just buy a brand new unit designed to meet our needs.

Here are a few pics...I didn't take pics of the drivetrain on the cradle yet, but early next week they will be posted.

upgraded camshaft install...





Porting the upper and lower intake manifolds....



LUNCH!!!

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: Other than that, the F40 swap part of the build is not bad at all to do and I plan to offer them at my shop for all 3800 series II and III. Dave

Go ahead and make a kit if you will.
Also, those headers you guys make would be great.
Now, if only you would just sell them to the DIY crowd.

quote Originally posted by nosrac: Go ahead and make a kit if you will. Also, those headers you guys make would be great. Now, if only you would just sell them to the DIY crowd.

I don't know about making a kit because I'd be liable if the person who installs the kit doesn't have the mechanical experience needed and winds up hurting himself or the car and directs his anger towards me. I won't have that.

As for the headers, YES, we will sell them mail order and we are in the process of building a fixture to sell complete exhaust systems too. We can run the headers towards the front or the back and there are plenty of options with building them.
Dave

Nice to see the build moving along!

quote Go ahead and make a kit if you will.

^^^^^^^ that or a kit for the f23. The build's looking great and if you're able to produce some headers for a reasonable price I'd definitely be interested. Keep up the good work!

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quote Originally posted by bmwguru: LUNCH!!!

Man they forgot to fry up your lunch for they sold it to you......Looks like they gave you a plate of bait!!!!!!

JK....Swap is looking good and coming along......Did you use the clutch/flywheel from SPEC that was made for the F40 swap to the 3800? Was there any issue with it at all?

Yes, I eat "bait" for lunch quite often...lol

The transmission/clutch/flywheel seemed to fit just fine. I took measurements of the input shaft depth to make sure we would have enough bite on the disc and it seemed fine.

Dave

quote With all the hype about 3800, all the hype about turbos, and all the hype about a 6 speed, you'd think the first Fiero to combine them would generate a lot more excitement.

Its more like a sigh of disappointment from wasted potential.

I just feel like the current breed of 3800 turbo fieros out there present a solid reputation for being the ultimate in power delivery in fieros, in both the automatic, and manual world. To see one being done to this degree, with such weird "goals" just subtracts from the pedigree that is the 3800 turbo.

quote Your claim on Club GP is that you have the fastest DAILY DRIVEN 3800 Fiero. Well, do you drive it for racing daily?

I am having trouble understanding if this is a serious question.... OF COURSE I DO!

quote I know you have tunnel vision about this stuff,

I can assure you that once you have had tunnel vision DRIVING a REAL 3800 turbo you wouldnt care what your right arm and left leg are doing.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Its more like a sigh of disappointment from wasted potential. I just feel like the current breed of 3800 turbo fieros out there present a solid reputation for being the ultimate in power delivery in fieros, in both the automatic, and manual world. To see one being done to this degree, with such weird "goals" just subtracts from the pedigree that is the 3800 turbo. I am having trouble understanding if this is a serious question.... OF COURSE I DO! I can assure you that once you have had tunnel vision DRIVING a REAL 3800 turbo you wouldnt care what your right arm and left leg are doing.

I'm sure you think your responses here were witty and relevant, but all you did was show your immaturity.

Who drives WOT everywhere they go? KIDS.
Who puts top speed over everything else in a car? KIDS.

So you think you'd be driving like you're in a race car in Houston's rush hour traffic, where it can take an hour to get 10 miles?
You think I should look into street racing like you do, when I have a family, a business, and a hell of a lot more on the line than you ever will?
You think I should de-evolve into someone who acts like a punk teenager with a Napolean complex?

I made a comment about how everyone with a 3800 is kidding themselves anyway if they thought they had the ultimate car, as we're not driving Bugatti Veyrons. You ACTUALLY tried to compare the two favorably towards the Fiero. Yeah, I'm going to take what you say seriously LMAO.

Scott, you're comedy relief at best. The only people making this "sigh of disappointment" are kids just like you, who are pretending to be "real men" because their cars go fast. There's more to my life than how fast my car goes, and I sure as hell don't have anything to prove, especially to someone who's testes haven't even fully dropped yet.

Southeast Michigan has a TON of race tracks and clubs that have tracks, he is close to Waterford hills where I would go and race daily if I lived near Pontiac. The advantage of the entire auto industry being based in SE Michigan makes that location a perfect place for a guy that loves fast cars to race them daily on a legal track because they are AVAILABLE. Unlike the west side of the state where all we have are dirt tracks where parts cars race to see who can lose all their oil out the tailpipe first.

If I lived near him, I'd race daily after work. some of the best tracks around are over near Detroit and Flint.

quote Originally posted by timgray: Southeast Michigan has a TON of race tracks and clubs that have tracks, he is close to Waterford hills where I would go and race daily if I lived near Pontiac. The advantage of the entire auto industry being based in SE Michigan makes that location a perfect place for a guy that loves fast cars to race them daily on a legal track because they are AVAILABLE. Unlike the west side of the state where all we have are dirt tracks where parts cars race to see who can lose all their oil out the tailpipe first. If I lived near him, I'd race daily after work. some of the best tracks around are over near Detroit and Flint.

Well it depends on your definition of 'race'. The only road course we have around here is Waterford Hills. It's an ok place, but honestly I prefer both Grattan and Gingerman raceways. They are far better tracks and facilities than Waterford Hills. Both of them are located on the west side (South Haven and Belding, MI).

Now if you are talking about drag strips, us east-siders have Milan Dragway and Lapeer Dragway. Lapeer is barely a drag strip, but it's cheap and you can get as many runs in as you want. Milan is a nice facility and track, but you are usually limited on your runs due to the amount of people they get on test and tune days. There is also Ubly, but I've never been there as it's 1.5 hours away up in the thumb. The west-siders have US 131 Dragway which IMO, is one of the best strips I've ever been to (I like Norwalk better). There is also Mid-Michigan Motorplex in Stanton, MI which is on par with Milan IMO.

So in my opinion, you west-siders have nicer places than we do.

That being said, one place that I feel that the east side has the advantage is that nearly every weekend from spring through fall you can find a nice autox event only a short drive away as there are at least 3 pretty big local clubs running events. Plus the insane amount of car-shows, GTG's, and track days. There is always something to do. All-in-all, the state of MI is a great place to be if you are into cars and want to get involved in some kind of racing. Most social things that I do are car-related in one way or another.

Sorry to go OT on this thread.

[This message has been edited by AkursedX (edited 06-19-2011).]

No worries about going OT. It's all good.

I know that's a camaro lower intake so I can see you are probably going to run something similar to my routing. With that being said, what kind of intercooler solution are you guys going with? Or is it a surprise?