Still waiting for the turbo to arrive. We are still up in the air for the throttle body, but we cleaned up the stock Camaro TB for now.
Dave

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www.hausofguru.com

Looks great. I can't wait to see it with the turbo. I'm calling Summit today to verify that they received it. If they have, you should have it by the middle of next week. Any pictures of the suspension stuff?

I'll take some suspension pics after the axles are done
Dave

Dave,
is it cheaper to do a turbo than a s/c 3.8? and if so is the power better?
thanks
al
btw that intake (and motor) looks nice!

quote Originally posted by ace5514: Dave, is it cheaper to do a turbo than a s/c 3.8? and if so is the power better? thanks al btw that intake (and motor) looks nice!

Cheaper? Not really. You have to consider that if you buy a decent 3.8 SC it comes with the supercharger. A decent turbo will run you $500 - $2,000 depending on how much power you want to make (unless you do the junkyard thing). Then you have to add the intercooler kit and everything else. In the long run turbo can be considerably more. However, the power potential is considerably more as well. If you're shooting for less than 400 WHP, then stay with the supercharger. If you want more than that, then you'll pretty much have to look at a turbo. I personally never cared for the whine of the supercharged Fieros, so the sound improvement was also a bonus.

Dave, the turbo shipped from Summit today. It should be in your hands mid week.

quote Originally posted by mptighe: Cheaper? Not really. You have to consider that if you buy a decent 3.8 SC it comes with the supercharger. A decent turbo will run you $500 - $2,000 depending on how much power you want to make (unless you do the junkyard thing). Then you have to add the intercooler kit and everything else. In the long run turbo can be considerably more. However, the power potential is considerably more as well. If you're shooting for less than 400 WHP, then stay with the supercharger. If you want more than that, then you'll pretty much have to look at a turbo. I personally never cared for the whine of the supercharged Fieros, so the sound improvement was also a bonus. Dave, the turbo shipped from Summit today. It should be in your hands mid week.

Soooo, do you still have that rear mouted turbo setup? I know someone that may be interested....
PM me.

quote Originally posted by nosrac: Soooo, do you still have that rear mouted turbo setup? I know someone that may be interested.... PM me.

PM sent

quote Cheaper? Not really.

For anything more than mild bolt ons, yes it is cheaper.

quote You have to consider that if you buy a decent 3.8 SC it comes with the supercharger.

Yes, a supercharger you can easily sell... NA intakes are 20 bucks.

quote A decent turbo will run you $500 - $2,000 depending on how much power you want to make (unless you do the junkyard thing).

Correction, a decent turbo will run you 500-2000 depending on how much you want to spend... You can get a 1000whp turbo for the same price as you can get a 300whp turbo. IE you can spend $100 on a 600whp turbo, $2200 on a 300whp turbo, or $600 on a 1100whp turbo..... Salesmen LOVE it when people call up asking for advice on what turbo they should buy, because he can typically sell a random piece of junk to the noob out there for stupid profits.

quote Then you have to add the intercooler kit and everything else.

Intercooling a turbo setup requires 1/5 the effort/money that intercooling a supercharged setup costs. "everything else" is a wastegate/bov.. which done cheaply can be done for less than intake gasket....

quote In the long run turbo can be considerably more.

You will most likely spend more money on a supercharged setup due to all of the stupid little crap you have to deal with.... Throttle bodies, headers, 4 times the exhaust/mufflers, supercharger upgrades/porting, head work, camshafts.... Just to make the power that a $300 motor with any turbo strapped to it makes.... It is very hard to spend more money setting up a turbo 3800 than any other one thing you are doing with the fiero (suspension upgrades, transmission upgrades, etc) I have spent about $1500 on my turbo setup on my car.. more than that on wheels/tires/chassis... and more than 3x that on my transmission.

quote However, the power potential is considerably more as well. If you're shooting for less than 400 WHP, then stay with the supercharger.

the average "i did everything I could" supercharged setup makes 310-340whp. 400whp has been done less than a handful of times by even less than a handful of people.

quote If you want more than that, then you'll pretty much have to look at a turbo. I personally never cared for the whine of the supercharged Fieros, so the sound improvement was also a bonus.

Or nitrous, or a whipple, or a CSC, or a kenne bell... You have more options than a turbo.....

quote exhaust/mufflers

Good point. I spent $25 on a 3" resonator cherry bomb type muffler. Its twice as quiet as the supercharged setup. On my supercharged setup I had about $300 in materials for the muffler.

Most everyone that tries to push their supercharged setup to the max ends up going turbo anyway.

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.53@126.7

Dave let me know the turbo arrived today. Now he should be able to get going on the exhaust. Hopefully he'll have some pictures (hint hint) soon. With everything going on in both my business and with my other project, I'm looking forward to being able to get into my Fiero and just drive.

I wanted to update this thread....we have been working our butts off to try and keep up with the German cars during the day and Fieros at night.
We are in the process of fabricating the new headers and working out the issues with the axles. We finally have a solution that I will post up once everything comes together.
The turbo we went with is a nice (Blah blah blah) and isn't important at the present.

The fuel system is 100% complete. I took the original feed and return system pictured here.....



and removed the pressure regulator from the rail, relocated the pressure gauge from the regulator to the rail, shortened the crossover hose, and came out with this......(I have this setup on three swapped Fieros and it looks great and does the job. I haven't added the mounting bracket yet so the pic would be clearer. I also plan to change the AN fittings to all match. I am using as much of Michael's original parts to keep cost down....fuel hoses were in great condition, so I used them.









As for the battery. We have had an issue where one swap we did the owner couldn't figure out what side was positive or negative. I use this same cable setup on every swap so I made it easier to identify what end is what....





note: the red "P" stamped on the positive cable and the "N" on the negative cable. I colored the "P" in red so that it can be easily recognized. I also colored in the + on the battery as well.



Other than that, the shift cables are in, fuel system complete, low mount alternator bracket is almost done, wiring harness is in the process of being fabricated, headers and exhaust is being fabricated, interior is completely stripped out to swap it over to manual transmission, basically, the car is coming along.

Dave

Dave said the axles are on their way, and that Ryan is still working on the headers. Other than that, he's trying to survive the heat. Keep up the good work Dave.

We had some serious setbacks with the axle shafts. I called Archie and discussed with him about purchasing a set of his F40 axles. He informed me that the support had to be bolted directly to the block where we mount our engine mount. The engine mount is 0.250", so we milled his axle support down by that much and mounted it up.
Our next problem was the passenger side inboard cv joint hit the oil filter and filter mounting boss. I drilled the mouning boss to accept recessed allen bolts and milled the face of it to clear. Then the oil filter part had to be reshaped to clear. Being the part is cast aluminum, heating and bending tends to crack it and we had to be careful of the inside failing or it would be game over.
I measured it for a oil filter relocation unit, but that physically wouldn't fit.
Anyway, we reshaped the unit to clear and everything fits perfectly. Here are a few pics. (the other types of 3800 oil filter mounts couldn't work...I tried them all before deciding on this one).

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: Being the part is cast aluminum, heating and bending tends to crack it and we had to be careful of the inside failing or it would be game over.

So, we're in the clear as far as this goes? What's next? I can't wait to hear it go vroom (shift) vroom (shift) vroom (shift) vroom (shift) vroom (shift) vrooooooooooooooooooommmmmmmm (crap cop)!

*edit* These the same axles that are on Troy's car?

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 08-23-2011).]

You'd have to double check with Archie, but I believe they are the same with the exception of the axle support plate.

Dave

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: You'd have to double check with Archie, but I believe they are the same with the exception of the axle support plate. Dave

That's correct.

Archie

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: As for the battery. We have had an issue where one swap we did the owner couldn't figure out what side was positive or negative. I use this same cable setup on every swap so I made it easier to identify what end is what.... note: the red "P" stamped on the positive cable and the "N" on the negative cable. I colored the "P" in red so that it can be easily recognized. I also colored in the + on the battery as well. Dave

Do you suppose that owner realized that even the stock Fiero battery cabling used on the positive side was black?
...or that the terminals are physically different sizes between + and - on top post batteries...

[This message has been edited by KurtAKX (edited 08-24-2011).]

Great, thanks. I'm pretty sure Troy is putting down more power than we are shooting for, so we should be safe then. Glad things are moving along.

Just an update, I spoke with Dave, and they are still working on the headers. He had some issues after Irene, nothing having to do with the cars, just some unwanted water. Anyway, he's confidant that the axle issue is resolved. He did say he doesn't see too many of these 3800 & F40 conversions being done due to the axles. It's not something that will be cost-effective for most people to do. I'll let him explain if he decides to. I'm having to deal with some expansion / construction headaches at my business right now, so I probably won't be on much if at all for the next week or so.

quote Originally posted by mptighe: Great, thanks. I'm pretty sure Troy is putting down more power than we are shooting for, so we should be safe then. Glad things are moving along.

For the record, it will only take roughly 12psi of boost and a medium sized turbo to emulate what a LS7 does in terms of torque with a ST5 cam.

And also, make sure you dont try to run a ST5 on a narrowband.... please....

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: For the record, it will only take roughly 12psi of boost and a medium sized turbo to emulate what a LS7 does in terms of torque with a ST5 cam. And also, make sure you dont try to run a ST5 on a narrowband.... please....

We are not using a ST5 cam.

Once Dave is done with his magic, she will come home for a while, to remind me why I'm doing all of this. I need to handle her again, so I won't lose faith and let her go. At this point, we've been in a one sided relationship for about two years, enough to test any relationship. Once I've had my fun with her, she's off to her next journey. I have a lot of things in store to make her one of the legends. One thing I am planning is an interior make-over. Here is one thing I've been looking at, and would like some input on...

http://www.quietcar.net/?go...2hrKsCFdoS2godn3UI8Q

She makes quite a bit of noise especially with the T-Tops, and I was hoping this stuff in combination with some other things, would quiet her ride down a bit. Thoughts?

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 09-20-2011).]

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.53@126.7

Dave gave me an update the other day. Things done on the car recently...

Interior is assembled except for the rally gauges

Low mount alternator and dogbone are done

He was getting ready to do an alignment on the car.

New transmission brackets were made.
.
.
.
Things still to be done with the car...

1) Headers need to be finished.

2) Charge pipe / intercooler

3) Front end suspension

4) Wiring

I told Dave not to worry too much about updating things. It's still moving it kind of took the fun out of the build to have people criticizing though. I will make a well documented post when I go to pick the car up. Hopefully there will be a dyno video, but I can't promise.

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 09-23-2011).]

quote Originally posted by mptighe: It's still moving it kind of took the fun out of the build to have people criticizing though.

Criticizing and pointing out things that ARE GOING TO CAUSE PROBLEMS are 2 different things all together.

Shoulda used more junk parts.

quote Originally posted by TommyRocker: Shoulda used more junk parts.

I asked Dave to use the absolute cheapest stuff he could find, using the MacGyver method, but he said he couldn't fashion a turbo out of dental floss. Oh well, there's always next time.

quote Originally posted by mptighe: I asked Dave to use the absolute cheapest stuff he could find, using the MacGyver method, but he said he couldn't fashion a turbo out of dental floss. Oh well, there's always next time.

This thread needed some horsepower.

quote Originally posted by mptighe: Dave gave me an update the other day. Things done on the car recently... Interior is assembled except for the rally gauges Low mount alternator and dogbone are done He was getting ready to do an alignment on the car. New transmission brackets were made. . . . Things still to be done with the car... 1) Headers need to be finished. 2) Charge pipe / intercooler 3) Front end suspension 4) Wiring I told Dave not to worry too much about updating things. It's still moving it kind of took the fun out of the build to have people criticizing though. I will make a well documented post when I go to pick the car up. Hopefully there will be a dyno video, but I can't promise.

Rally gauges are done. I had to purchase a used rally gauge pod because the one that came with the car was 90% epoxy and 10% plastic. I also received the shifter cable clips I needed to secure the cables.

I did do an initial alignment for the rear of the car to make it a lot easier to push the car to the different bays of the shop. Ryan has a lift for the making the headers, I have a lift on the other end of the shop for the wiring and the front end work gets done on the other side of the shop....since we don't have time to use the gym, pushing the swaps around keeps us in shape.

I did fabricate new engine and transmission brackets. Originally, I based the transmission brackets off the original engine bracket that was installed on the 3800. After taking final measurements, the drivetrain was sitting 15mm forwards of where we usually have it sitting. This was really starting to eat at me because everything I build is based on the engine sitting exactly where we fit it. So, we fabricated new transmission brackets and a new engine bracket at no charge to Michael.

The headers are complete. Now Ryan is fabricating the crossover pipe.

The front suspension repairs are complete.

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: Rally gauges are done. I did do an initial alignment for the rear of the car to make it a lot easier to push the car to the different bays of the shop. I did fabricate new engine and transmission brackets. The headers are complete. Now Ryan is fabricating the crossover pipe. The front suspension repairs are complete.

Honestly I consider myself lucky that Dave was willing to take my car on. There were so many issues from the first shop that if we had known he may never have agreed to do it, and I may not have been willing to have it done. After seeing how so many cars are down for years, I am glad that mine will be drivable again.

Dave told me the car will be done this Saturday, and he's willing to take my crappy Acura as final payment since it took him so long to get the axle situation figured out. Right Dave?

Oh, and Dave and I decided that the car will have 700+ WHP just because we say it will. We're not going to dyno it, we're just going to say it has that many. That way we can go into every other build thread and trash other people's cars because they're not as powerful as this one.

On a less interesting note, Dave told me that rash of his is really starting to respond to the medication.

Just an FYI regarding the battery plus/minus identification:
You can always buy those green/red felt pads that go on the
posts before you put the leads back on. They're oversize enough
that you can still clearly see which side is which.

Kit

quote Originally posted by mptighe: Dave told me the car will be done this Saturday, .

PICS, can I get my car pron???

quote Originally posted by mptighe: Oh, and Dave and I decided that the car will have 700+ WHP just because we say it will.

I would at least hope so after everything that has been done.

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.53@126.7

quote Originally posted by mptighe: On a less interesting note, Dave told me that rash of his is really starting to respond to the medication.

LMAO....I almost shot my morning Red Bull out my nose.

Anyway, the build is coming along, but keep in mind that we do Fieros on the side. We can make more money in one day repairing a S-Class suspension than we will in the 6 months of doing a Fiero swap, so please go easy on my timeframes. We just love building the Fieros.
Dave

quote Dave told me the car will be done this Saturday

Its monday.