Looking to regharge my A/C. Maybe have some dye put in for a leak check. Its a Fiero I recently bought so I don't know if its a real leaker or just needs a charge. I was reading that you can't just buy a conversion kit from Autozone to R134, you need to replace your drier and stuff otherwise parts failures down the road. Anyone have a source or contact for filling it wil original style fluid in Minnesota / Iowa / Wisconsin? R12
Thanks

Your local home HVAC personell can charge it. Well those in my area can. Keep in mind R12 is liquid gold!

quote Originally posted by GADJet: Your local home HVAC personell can charge it. Well those in my area can. Keep in mind R12 is liquid gold!

Home AC companies, does that mean homes use R12?
I think the Fiero says 2.5 lbs of R12, what would that run $?

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 05-10-2011).]

R12 is still the best and your entire system was designed for it. Most places can still recharge it, but its generally VERY expensive. Last I looked a few years ago it was like $40 a pnd. But then service for even 134 is $125 anyway. I think 134 is trash myself. Even my new cars with it from the factory dont cool worth a damn. Fiero can get by with a kit because its small. But paying for the kit and service will end up costing nearly as much as the R12 anyway. I get R12 if my car is supposed to have it.

If you're looking to spend a bit of $$$ I might be able to find a guy. And that's coming from someone who switched his Fiero to R-134. (Both folks that I have in mind are also in Southern MN)

What kinda $ we talking? $40 per pound is still under $150 whats labor less than 30 minutes?

Check with smaller independent repair shops in your area. Unlike the larger "chain" shops an independent is more likely to have a small stock pile of the RARE R-12. Check with a real parts store for a reference for a shop. Be prepared to PAY a premium price as you are looking for a discontinued item that requires out of date equipment to use and a licence. AVOID freeze 12 or any other "drop in" . I use freeze 12 and it works BUT if you decide to convert from R-12 go with 134 so that it can be serviced in the future.

its kinda sad, i still have 30-40lbs of r12 myself, my dad bought a 100lb tank about 15 years ago, i couldnt even tell you the last time we even attempted to use it.

matthew

quote Originally posted by 2.5: Home AC companies, does that mean homes use R12? I think the Fiero says 2.5 lbs of R12, what would that run $?

NO. Most homes use R22. You have to have a license to obtain R12 and I think all other refridgerants other than R134a. (I could be wrong but I know R12 you do have to have a license). Autos swithed from R12 to R134a because R12 is not "Green" or environment friendly. (Per say) Since not any joe blow can get R12 and its not produced like it used to be, it has become a rare commodity.

As recently as a couple of years ago, you could still find lots of R12 on ebay. I bought a few lots of 3 cans of R12, and wound up with around 12 or 15 total. At the time, I had at least 3 cars that used it, and the cars I had that had been converted to R134 did not cool worth a damn. See if you can find some at swap meets, or PM sellers on ebay, or maybe they still have it down in Mexico

The going price a few years ago, if you bought three cans, was $35 per can. I still have 2 cans left, and will need one more before I get the A/C in the Fiero working again.

Sorry no contacts for R12 in the the Minnesota area. R12 was banned here in 2001 but there is a product called R24 which is being used as a "direct replacement" for R12. Have not looked into this as air conditioing is a long way down the list but might be worth investigating.

Cheers
PK

RS24 is R426A Which is a blend. Any time you have a blend, there are heavier and lighter compounds in the mixture. When the system is off, the compounds separate, the lighter ones go to the high points in the system, the heavier drop down low. IF YOU HAVE A LEAK, it may drain out one of the blend compounds, upsetting the gas balance making the refrigerant less effective. Topping it off doesn't fix it either because you wont get the proportions correct, you'll have to drain it all out, vacuum, and start over with the correct blend proportions. Also, if you have a blend, or other non-traditional refrigerants, some shops will refuse to work on your system to avoid "contaminating" their R12 or R134A specific equipment. They get touchy about these things.

If only propane wasn't flammable... It would be a near ideal refrigerant.

just a 10 second google of r12 refrigerant gave me 1/2 dozen suppliers that sell it.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: just a 10 second google of r12 refrigerant gave me 1/2 dozen suppliers that sell it.

Install it or sell it?

Also wondering how does one know they are having actual R12 installed, do places try and pass of "Freeze12" as R12?

If an auto air conditioning service place cant get it, give them the phone number or get it yourself and give it to them to install. Place I deal with put a few pounds I gave them in one of my cars for $25 labor.

Local place around here was charging $80.00 a pound and if they put in 1.01 pounds you got charged for 2. and then they had labor.. $95.00 an hour minimum 1 hour.

They were the only one doing R12.

If you know you don't have a leak, you can get R12 on Ebay...

So much misinformation (plus some good information) in such a short thread. For an AC system that's generally healthy, recharging with R-12 is probably more cost effective than converting to R-134a. There is no legal "drop in" replacement for R-12.

R-12 has been illegal to manufacture or import into the U.S. since 1993, but pre-1993 stockpiled and/or recycled R-12 is both legal and available. The price of legal R-12 peaked at about $80 per pound several years ago, and has been steadily dropping since then as demand slowly evaporates. (pun intended) Yes, an EPA license is required to purchase R-12, and most other refrigerants for that matter; one exception is "small quantities" of R-134a. A lot of shops still have the equipment necessary to recover R-12 from your system, and many of them will do so for free since they can sell the recovered R-12 to a recycler. Some well-established AC shops will still have R-12 on hand, along with the necessary equipment to recharge your system.

This particular car was purchased a few months ago with AC that blows warm. Previous owner said of course "it just needs a recharge". However I don't know if it will leak out in a day or a year ya know?

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: So much misinformation (plus some good information) in such a short thread. For an AC system that's generally healthy, recharging with R-12 is probably more cost effective than converting to R-134a. There is no legal "drop in" replacement for R-12. R-12 has been illegal to manufacture or import into the U.S. since 1993, but pre-1993 stockpiled and/or recycled R-12 is both legal and available. The price of legal R-12 peaked at about $80 per pound several years ago, and has been steadily dropping since then as demand slowly evaporates. (pun intended) Yes, an EPA license is required to purchase R-12, and most other refrigerants for that matter; one exception is "small quantities" of R-134a. A lot of shops still have the equipment necessary to recover R-12 from your system, and many of them will do so for free since they can sell the recovered R-12 to a recycler. Some well-established AC shops will still have R-12 on hand, along with the necessary equipment to recharge your system.

I figured I was given a "go away" price. either that or they are simply crooks. I need to search further. maybe a mechanic near detroit is hungry for money and will give a honest price to me.

quote Originally posted by 2.5: ...I was reading that you can't just buy a conversion kit from Autozone to R134, you need to replace your drier and stuff otherwise parts failures down the road.....

I did and it's working great for me so far. Hope I won't see parts failures down the road.

Here's what I'm using. Only took 1/2 a can.


It takes 1 min to get down to 34 with the fan on low, A/C set to max

quote Originally posted by CoolBlue87GT: I did and it's working great for me so far. Hope I won't see parts failures down the road. Here's what I'm using. Only took 1/2 a can. It takes 1 min to get down to 34 with the fan on low, A/C set to max

Any problems a year later? I'm interested in doing this to my Fiero

Freeze 12 has gone the way of R-12 --- no longer in production -- just do the 134 conversion -- adjust the pressure switch and all should be good.

do the r134 it'll cool just fine, and cheaper.. I'd not pump r12 into a system not knowing if it'll just leak out..
r12 is over 100.oo a pound..

older cars that don't cool well with r134 is because the owner or shop didn't change the correct parts..
you have to install a new pressure switch, a new dryer a new offerace tube and pull ALL the r-12 out of the system(this alone can take an hour on the vac pump,, including the r-12 oil.. install new orings

done correctly it'll freeze your nadds off.

my 86 monte SS temp out the vents is 33*

I don't know what the fixation is on using R-12. R-12 is for the demographic that keeps a membership in the AARP.
My Fieros all use a properly done R-134A conversion and the systems blow so cold they will freeze you out of there in 90*F weather.
For an effective R-134a conversion all lines need to be disconnected and drained of all old mineral oil, the compressor , and condenser checked out and also flushed. The the orifice tube, accumulator and all O rings replaced. The A/C system is evacuated to 29.5 in hg and recharged according to weight and or the pressure gauge readings.
If done right you can freeze your ass off with an R-134a system.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

I have 2 30 lb r12 tanks, and 30 standard cans. I live in St.cloud mn. have license and all equipment,including recycler

I converted to R134a and last year and not a problem since. R12 cools better, but the Fiero has such a small cabin, the R134a is fine.

Easy way to check for leaks:

1. Get a Air vacuum pump from Harbor Freight.
2. Create a vacuum in the A/C system
3. Wait a few days, check to see if the system holds a vacuum. If so, no leaks.
4. Buy a conversion kit and follow the directions.

I bought my Fiero 3 years ago and it had no A/C. Performed the above steps last spring, have enjoyed driving my Fiero in 90+ degree weather again!

Be very careful hooking the adapter to the condenser, the threads are aluminum and strip easily...don't ask how I know this.

------------------
Tim
'87 GT Auto
Med Red Metallic
78K miles
Bay City, MI

[This message has been edited by trivet (edited 06-06-2012).]

As an FYI, just testing for vacuum may not tell for certain that there's no leaks.. A seal can leak in such a way that it pulls "in" with suction (and seals), but blows "out" with pressure, so it leaks.. (like a 1-way valve) Since the AC system works under a fair amount of pressure most of the time, testing for vacuum as well as pressure would be ideal. (same way - just pump it up and check it after a while) Hopefully I'll get to doing it myself this year, if the Fiero actually sees the road.

R-12 is impossible to find in northern Michigan, from parts stores even if you have the license, or from shops, who simply don't want to be bothered with it, since they can make BIG money selling you a conversion to R-134A. The further south you go in the country, the more likely you are to find it.

I found the easiest/cheapest way to get R-12 was to just get the EPA Section 609 certification. It's just an open-book test online, 25 questions, and I think $25. Then you can buy it on eBay from sellers who require a license. I got 3 14oz cans (2.6lbs, just more than enough for a Fiero) for around $50 shipped a couple years ago.

quote Originally posted by 88fieroduke: I have 2 30 lb r12 tanks, and 30 standard cans. I live in St.cloud mn. have license and all equipment,including recycler

I already converted to R134a. But I'm sure someone else is looking and will see your post

quote Originally posted by 88fieroduke: I have 2 30 lb r12 tanks, and 30 standard cans. I live in St.cloud mn. have license and all equipment,including recycler

How much would you charge for a recharge?

Some don`t particularly like R134 but I think if all of your components are up to par and the system is filled with the right amount of gas it works fine.
My F150 was down a bit on gas and when I got my gauges I put about a can into the system and it will cool plenty.
I just run it on max until it cools the cab off and then switch to regular air on about 2 fan speed.
I put some in my son`s BMW but I can`t get the high side above about 185lbs so I think his compressor is going.

quote Originally posted by Zack_White86gt: How much would you charge for a recharge?

Remember guys, this thread is over a year old.

Some things may have changed as far as supply and availability !!!

88fieroduke posted "I have 2 30 lb r12 tanks, and 30 standard cans. I live in St.cloud mn. have license and all equipment,including recycler" on 6-6-2012, I think Zack just wants to know how much 88fieroduke would charge to fill his system with the stuff he's got on hand...

That's a lot of R12!

Back in high school I built a home air conditioner (large window-type unit) with a plywood box for a housing... I was stapling on some grille material to protect the fins, when one of the last staples I had to shoot pierced a pipe..... There's probably a hole in the ozone layer above that house now. Thought the gas was never going to stop coming out.... Doh! Gotta be careful with the stuff....

Just got this done on my car and the R12 was $55/ lb.

In Michigan? Where? Detroit area I'd assume?

No.....Just a little SW of Grand Rapids. I was just happy to see it was still available.

quote Originally posted by mitchjl22: Any problems a year later? I'm interested in doing this to my Fiero

A year later, it's still doing fine.

If you're looking for R-12 go to the auto parts swap meets in your area, $20 a can is the usual asking price around here. I just picked up one for $5 and two others for $10 each two weeks ago, passed on 3 others for $60.