quote Originally posted by fieroguru: You say there are "no issues with me" but as they say "it takes two to tango". Once you went on a tirade after the comment posted, you became an equal contributor to the degredation of this thread.

I did not go on a tirade ... I just didnt understand why he posted crap about your R&D. It seemed like an attempt to make you look like an amateur .... but you're right it takes two to tango....
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[This message has been edited by Danyel (edited 12-20-2011).]

I sent Paul an apology for derailing the thread, and I'll extend it here also to others. That was just me being a drunk belligerent ******* . I maintain it is still funny, but not at all appropriate. My bad.

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: The rotors will add about 8 lbs/side on the front and 6 lbs/side in the rear.

Just for reference, the Grand Am brake upgrade adds close to the same amount of weight (within a few pounds). And the other "performance" brake swaps add even more. So unsprung weight shouldn't be an issue.

Personally, I think this brake setup would be a great alternative for those who want more out of their '84-87 brakes, but don't want to re-engineer the whole braking system.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 12-20-2011).]

I agree that more options are better for everyone, and that have a lesser complicated option is great for some.

So I'm just playing devil's advocate here, which is what I do best. Not knocking on anything, just discussing the facts.
The Grand Am upgrade uses an 11 pound rotor, the hub, and cast iron calipers.
This upgrade uses a 22lb rotor (front), hub, and aluminum calipers.

I know that the cast iron calipers will soak up some of that weight difference, but I don't think can really compare the two in terms of weight. If anything, the Grand Am upgrade is more comparable with the stock 84-87 weight, because the stock solid rotor weighs 14 lbs, no hub, and uses the lighter aluminum caliper.

quote Originally posted by L67: This upgrade uses a 22lb rotor (front), hub, and aluminum calipers.

Not sure where you got that my 12 3/4" rotors weigh 22 lbs.... they weigh 14 1/2 lbs.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 12-20-2011).]

quote The rotors will add about 8 lbs/side on the front and 6 lbs/side in the rear.

I added that to the stock weight.

I have the 4-wheel Grand Am brake conversion on my Fiero. I weighed all the stock brake components that were replaced / removed, and all the Grand Am components that replaced them. The end result was that the Grand Am brakes added 8 lb / wheel to the front, and 4 lb / wheel to the rear.

Fieroguru says his 12.75" rotors will add 8 lb / wheel in front, and 6 lb / wheel in back. That's very close to the weight of the Grand Am swap. And if he uses custom caliper brackets that replace the original ones (which are pretty hefty), it could possibly come in at less total weight gained than the Grand Am swap.

Of course, we won't know for sure until fieroguru finishes the project.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 12-20-2011).]

People talk a lot about the weigh of brake swaps here, but never seem to bring up wheel weight. Since these swaps require 16" or 17" wheels, I think its safe to assume people are running aftermarket wheels with these swaps. Stock Fiero wheels are heavy. A good aftermarket wheel can be substantially lighter. I know in my case I'm running an Enkei that's several lbs lighter than a stock 15" lace wheel. I'm also doing a 12" brake swap, which will add a few lbs of unsprung weight. My assumption is that unsprung weight is unsprung weight, and that I'm really just offsetting it, with a marginal net difference. I'd imagine the only possible difference would be the distance from the center of rotation, in which case a heavier rotor would have less impact than the weight of the wheel acting over a larger radius.

I took a picture of a stock 88 rear caliper next to a Grand Am caliper for comparison. Both "feel" about the same in weight.

quote Originally posted by L67: I added that to the stock weight.

The stock front hub/rotor is 13.5 lbs, but when you part off the rotor portion you remove about 7 lbs of material. So my 14.5 lb rotor only adds about 8 lbs.

quote Originally posted by fieroguru: The stock front hub/rotor is 13.5 lbs, but when you part off the rotor portion you remove about 7 lbs of material. So my 14.5 lb rotor only adds about 8 lbs.

Ah, ok. That's very helpful thank you. So very close to the Grand Am upgrade.

I have decided to abort this project and focus my efforts on other 88 Fiero upgrades.

Are you really against pre-88's? They are still fiero's too you know, and are available in much higher numbers then 88's...

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 01-18-2012).]

No please don't ... I have been saving for your kit. I have beenwith you from day one. Your kit was my only shot to do the upgrade and still maintain the indy system... please I already have so much $ tied up in the stock system. Plus yours is the only way I can afford a system larger then 12 inch vette rotors. I have fabricating ability to do this myself...

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1984 Indy Fiero SE Pace Car Replica #770
"SE" Stormtrooper Edition Rescued, resuscitated and reversibly modified! (I'm so not done yet!)

Poly all round & Black Drag DR-34s
Frt: 225/45 on 18x8 (47 offset w/ 8-9mm spacer) 1.5 coils cut off 1984 WS6 springs
Rear: 265/35 on 18x8.5 (45 offset) Coil-overs w/ 10 inch 300lb springs & 7 inch sleeve

Everything is the previous owners fault!

quote Originally posted by mattwa: Are you really against pre-88's? They are still fiero's too you know, and are available in much higher numbers then 88's...

I am highly biased towards the 88's and openly admit it. From 96-2006 had non-88's and 88's and eventually just liked the 88's better. Since 2006 I have only had 88's registered in my name and my personal parts stash is almost 100% 88. Part of it is my engineering background and wanting the Fiero the way the engineers intended it to be vs. what it had to be from 84-87 due to the accountants. The 84-87's make a lot of people happy, they just don't do it for me.

My aborting this project is only partially about my personal preferrence, and more about $$$. I had about $2500 wrapped up in my 13" 88 kit before I sold the first one. I was OK investing this amount of $$$ into the kit, because I knew even if I didn't sell any, I would get value out of the investment with all my future 88 projects. But without my own personal use of the 84-87 kit to help justify the upfront expense (and having without having a personal 84-87 fiero on hand to speed up the design/R&D), it makes poor financial sense given the # of people who have cited interest and the current trend of only 30% of interested parties end up being buyers when the time comes.

The other aspect was liability/reputation and the 84-87 caliper design. The aluminum caliper needed to be clearanced in the bridge area to clear the larger rotors, and this removes material from the most highly stressed area of the aluminum caliper. Aluminum is prone to fatiguige failure, so this mod would make the caliper weaker. Then add in the current trend to install the S10 brake booster and increase caliper pressure beyond what GM designed the calipers for originally. Given all these concerns, I am not willing to develop or market a kit under these conditions.

quote Originally posted by redraif: No please don't ... I have been saving for your kit. I have beenwith you from day one. Your kit was my only shot to do the upgrade and still maintain the indy system... please I already have so much $ tied up in the stock system. Plus yours is the only way I can afford a system larger then 12 inch vette rotors. I have fabricating ability to do this myself...

Yes, I know you are interested, but as a whole there is not sufficient interest in this project. Even if there were, I have concerns about the caliper longevity with the modification when the S10 brake booster is added to it. I have no control over if the S10 booster is added, but I do have control over my involvement in the kit. Sorry.

Perhaps you can tell us what vehicle the rotors were you were going to use was, for those of us who might want to attempt it on our own?

I've been digging for a couple of hours, and have come up with a 12.6" rotor that might do, though I'm not sure if the 73mm center bore is cutting it too close for a 100mm bolt pattern to be redrilled on. Otherwise I've found a 12.3" that looks an awful lot like the ones you're using on the 88s(ie has a drum in the middle for a parking brake) with a 64mm bore...no concerns with the lugs taking all the braking force?

quote Originally posted by Stubby79: Perhaps you can tell us what vehicle the rotors were you were going to use was, for those of us who might want to attempt it on our own? I've been digging for a couple of hours, and have come up with a 12.6" rotor that might do, though I'm not sure if the 73mm center bore is cutting it too close for a 100mm bolt pattern to be redrilled on. Otherwise I've found a 12.3" that looks an awful lot like the ones you're using on the 88s(ie has a drum in the middle for a parking brake) with a 64mm bore...no concerns with the lugs taking all the braking force?

Sorry, but I won't share the rotors I found for this upgrade, it is a liability issue. If I pass on the information, someone uses it and installs a kit, and the caliper bridge snaps off, locking up the DS front wheel, which throws the car uncontrolably head on into the oncoming lane, and kills someone... the path of information started with me, and laywers will be at my door in a heartbeat.

I have shared my concerns with the caliper bridge modification (especially when the S10 booster is added) and am backing away from this project entirely. If you want to do your own research and go down the path and disregard my words of caution... by all means you can do what you want, but I will not have any part of it.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 01-23-2012).]

If you state that you hold no liability and all information is used at your own risk, I don't see the harm in telling us what rotors you were using.

Was there a slightly smaller rotor you uncovered that would not require the caliper shaving that might be applicable? For some of us this upgrade was a god sent. Maybe backing the size to something safer and a compromise could be met?

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1984 Indy Fiero SE Pace Car Replica #770
"SE" Stormtrooper Edition Rescued, resuscitated and reversibly modified! (I'm so not done yet!)

Poly all round & Black Drag DR-34s
Frt: 225/45 on 18x8 (47 offset w/ 8-9mm spacer) 1.5 coils cut off 1984 WS6 springs
Rear: 265/35 on 18x8.5 (45 offset) Coil-overs w/ 10 inch 300lb springs & 7 inch sleeve

Everything is the previous owners fault!

sorry to bring this back, but i had been thinking of doing this for a long time, and just found (google) this thread.

this may be the elusive rotor. 06 magnum rear. with the smaller engine. 12.6 outer diameter.



http://www.theautopartsshop...53021_F_04_17_08.jpg

i like keeping the factory very lightweight calipers (and i allready have them). the solid rotors ar lighter than equivalent vented. the increased weight and leverage should give a nice improvement in stopping power and fade resistance. thay look just as good as the vented from the outside. fatigue should be improved since you wont be clamping as hard on average with the extra leverage. if i could do this i would not clearance the caliper, rather let the pad hang over a bit. may make some funny noise, but i could trim the pad in that case.

ford has a rear rotor that is unvented in the 13" size, it is on the 2wd pickups around 2004. it is also exsessively deep. it has a drum in hat for ebrake as well.

any other +12" solid rotors out there?

You really should start your own thread and let this one archive.

For a rotor to fit the rear 84-87 upright it must be less than 2" deep (wheel face to backside of rotor). Any deeper and the rotor will make contact with the caliper mounting bosses in the upright. The 06 rotor you are suggesting is 2.6" deep and will not fit the rear by a long shot.