Today I'm starting this thread to mark the beginning of our newest swap, 3800 N/A next to an F23 in our 85 SE.
We picked up the 3800 along with lots of parts from Tstang429 today. We got the F23 from Pull-a-Part last month from a 2001 cavalier, only problem is mileage is unknown. Seems to be in good shape though.







It's going in this Fiero


To replace this:

I recently painted it, but it's not starting anymore, and I got so frustrated I have just kinda given up, and then the 3800 came up for sale, and we took the deal.

About the motor. It's a 96 Series 2 from a Regal, with 98 wiring, PCM, and alternator. It has a L26 Intake mated to a L67 Throttle Body. Wiring is about 90% done, and routed very cleanly. Just need to finish wires here and there, and then loom it all. Computer is going where the Battery was, and so is the coil-pack/ign module. Using stock exhaust manifolds with a muffler and out to the tips, no trunk cutting here.

Yes, this is an N/A, no boost. Deal with it. There are many 3800 threads, I understand this, but I made this one because of the F23 as well. Kind of a new concept, not many have done it yet. Hopefully this supplements L67's F23 Tutorial https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/087296.html.


There isn't going to be much progress until my college semester ends, but after that I'll be working on it everyday, all day to get it finished.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 01-21-2012).]

Looks like a great project, looking forward to updates from this.

Will bd doing this same swap soon but using Getrag....But will be swaping in an F23 in a past swap when the time comes. Will be following thread picling up any all all tips to make both easier..

I will be following as well

was it already in a fiero? I see it has a flywheel already.

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SSFiero@Aol.com 87 Gt-5spd-62k miles.

quote Originally posted by KissMySSFiero: was it already in a fiero? I see it has a flywheel already.

He got it from a forum member so I guess it might of already been mounted

When you get the swap done, I would like to have my car back please. This is great news.

Jim

Yea it was already mounted in the fiero but he wasnt able to start it sadly, ran out of time and motivation.

Only issue is it has an 88 WCF mount. Hopefully I can get it to work.

Good luck with the swap. Don't forget the K-Beck LEDs; Danyel guarantees they make the car very fast and provide enough light so you can look even look for keys, at night! Study hard for your semester finals and keep us posted on your plans and progress.

Today I did some work on the project, drained the gas from the tank via fuel pump (had about 3/4 tank), fought with the other fuel rail like crazy but I finally got the hose on both sides..that really hurt my hands...speaking of fuel lines I do plan on using the and re-organized some of the wiring. I also fixed the problem with the belt when we got it, it was hitting a bolt and if started would nearly kick the belt off the pulleys or destroy the belt.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 11-22-2011).]

There's an alternative route for the belt, and I chose it because it puts way more wrap on the main pulley.

Link to post

Sorry to see Tstang bow out of his build, he and I had a "motivate each other to finish" thing goin on for a while, as we were both doing NA's. I guess I'll start harassing you now, and you're welcome to pick on me for being lazy...

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Currently in the middle of my 88 + 3800NA swap

What turbo are you using?

any chance you can relocate the ATL to the AC deleet area and run a smaller belt,

[This message has been edited by RULOOKIN (edited 11-22-2011).]

quote Originally posted by aaronkoch: There's an alternative route for the belt, and I chose it because it puts way more wrap on the main pulley. Link to post Sorry to see Tstang bow out of his build, he and I had a "motivate each other to finish" thing goin on for a while, as we were both doing NA's. I guess I'll start harassing you now, and you're welcome to pick on me for being lazy...

I like that routing, I'm just not going to mess with the current setup unless there is a problem, that's a really nice belt. I have many other things to do first.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: What turbo are you using?

None yet.

quote Originally posted by RULOOKIN: any chance you can relocate the ATL to the AC deleet area and run a smaller belt,

I'm actually planning on using A/C, I'm just not going to buy and install the A/C compressor right now, I want to get everything else working first. Not going to install a compressor to just let it sit and seize up under the winter/spring.

I got some things done with the wiring tonight, running the O2 and oil pressure sender wires. I'm going to add the A/C wires that were left out as well. I want this Fiero to have working A/C.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 11-23-2011).]

looks like a pretty cool build, ill be checking in on this one. have fun guys!

Too bad Theo couldn't finish this in his. It looked really nice in his car. I think that's the flywheel I traded to him for some spare parts...

alex looks like he wants to kill someone....that or well...kill someone i recommend not being under the car when theres a chance it can fall on you... :-P

quote Originally posted by Genopsyde: Too bad Theo couldn't finish this in his. I think that's the flywheel I traded to him for some spare parts...

Yeah, I kinda sighed when I saw all of the stuff in the mall.

That flywheel's got my fingerprints on it also.

quote Originally posted by mattwa: Today I'm starting this thread to mark the beginning of our newest swap, 3800 N/A next to an F23 in our 85 SE. I'm hoping to get this done by sometime in January, but of course you never know. We picked up the 3800 along with lots of parts from Tstang429 today. We got the F23 from Pull-a-Part last month from a 2001 cavalier, only problem is mileage is unknown. Seems to be in good shape though, so some new axle seals and new HTOB, and that should be it. (I'm on the left. To the right is Alex (fiero al)).

I like his tough guy face, lol.looks like a good build!. I think a little cleaning is in order for that gearbox though lol.

quote Originally posted by Syn: I like his tough guy face, lol.looks like a good build!. I think a little cleaning is in order for that gearbox though lol.

Haha yeah man I thought the same thing. For some odd reason the guy on the right reminds me of Benny Hill and the guy on the left reminds me of someone from Monty Python!! At least they are not out roaming the streets instead they are at home building cool fast fieros!! Peace

Pete

l67 your flywheel went to texas lol. that is rich flywheel that was my mock up i got needed its finish cut.
Yea guys my cavalier bending valves i had to take some drastic measures. picked up a beater car while reparing my daily driver. The thing is my fiero is still sitting in the garage soon to be covered away. Matt have fun with that motor lots of passion went into it.

quote Originally posted by Syn: I like his tough guy face, lol.looks like a good build!. I think a little cleaning is in order for that gearbox though lol.

i was never good with pictures especially ones on school picture day. in this one i tried to smile but with the cold weather, it was kinda hard to.

by the way Matt, are you using the stainless fuel lines now that you got the other system to work?

quote Originally posted by fiero al: i was never good with pictures especially ones on school picture day. in this one i tried to smile but with the cold weather, it was kinda hard to. by the way Matt, are you using the stainless fuel lines now that you got the other system to work?

No I'm not. Read on to find out why.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 01-21-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Tstang429: l67 your flywheel went to texas lol.

Oh. See if I send you anything again.

Who'd it go to? Just curious.

quote Originally posted by L67: Oh. See if I send you anything again. Who'd it go to? Just curious.

Take a wild guess?

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: Take a wild guess?

...If you say that it's bolted below a blue supercharger and set of valve covers belonging to one Kroger employee you helped, I'll have a smirk on my face for a month.

quote Originally posted by L67: ...If you say that it's bolted below a blue supercharger and set of valve covers belonging to one Kroger employee you helped, I'll have a smirk on my face for a month.

No Sir....It is going on a 3800NA attached to a Getrag that will then go into a 88 GT that used to run a SBC in it. Then down the road will get a turbo if all goes well and that is the route the owner takes....

Jolly good. Glad that twerp doesn't have it. Carry on Matt.

I'm not a twerp lol

Today I disconnected most of the stuff needed to drop the cradle, and got the shift cables out, etc. I might drop it tomorrow, but we'll see what happens. I don't have much left to disconnect other then the four cradle bolts. I also installed the new Autolite XP spark plugs I got in the mail today in the 3800.

While I was doing that, my mom did some detail cleaning on the F23, and wow, it looks really good now! It looks like the newer ones, as does have that dark "stained aluminum" look to it like it did. Going to paint it silver.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 11-26-2011).]

You are going to need to run your VSS sensor directly to the PCM. Then use the 4000 PPM output into a speedo buffer, and then into the speedo.

Is there a reverse switch on your tranny? I don't see it on the pics but I would think the switch is tranny mounted.

Is your oil pressure sender a 3 pin type?

Have you thought about what you are going to do for the EVAP purge? Most end up using the PCM controlled EVAP solenoid. (Mounted on the intake near the throttle body)

You can fit your PCM in the stock location with a little modification of the console. You need the wires to come off of the transmission side of the front valve cover to do that.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 11-26-2011).]

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: You are going to need to run your VSS sensor directly to the PCM. Then use the 4000 PPM output into a speedo buffer, and then into the speedo. Is there a reverse switch on your tranny? I don't see it on the pics but I would think the switch is tranny mounted. Is your oil pressure sender a 3 pin type? Have you thought about what you are going to do for the EVAP purge? Most end up using the PCM controlled EVAP solenoid. (Mounted on the intake near the throttle body) You can fit your PCM in the stock location with a little modification of the console. You need the wires to come off of the transmission side of the front valve cover to do that.

Ok, what does the stock Speedometer want, 4000 PPM? Can't I just run the speedo using the PCM 4000 PPM out?

Yes there is..I need to get a connector for that as well. Thank you for reminding me about that, I totally forgot about the backup switch wiring, I need to run those wires as well.

Yes it is a 3-pin type, 88 style.

I still need to wire up the EVAP purge on the Intake yes.

I actually don't mind it in the engine bay where Theo had it, and I don't want to redo all his wiring work again.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 11-26-2011).]

quote Originally posted by mattwa: Ok, what does the stock Speedometer want, 4000 PPM? Can't I just run the speedo using the PCM 4000 PPM out?

No, you have to buffer PCM outputs. Use Ryan's schematic. Or buy from Phone if you're too lazy to solder for 10 mins.

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: Is there a reverse switch on your tranny? I don't see it on the pics but I would think the switch is tranny mounted.

Unfamiliar with the F23 Tutorial I see. Review it, because you need to know.

Ok, I can do that, but that's not the problem. I just emailed Ryan, but I am pretty sure Theo had the PCM programmed for the VSS signal of the muncie 4-speed this engine was mated up too. Now that I have the F23..don't want to reprogram it again.

Which computer are you using?

[This message has been edited by L67 (edited 11-26-2011).]

quote Originally posted by L67: Which computer are you using?

98 PCM.

You need the speedo buffer circuit to run the stock Fiero speedo from the 4000 PPM output of the PCM.

I see one on this page, or you can also make your own.

http://www.reddevilriver.com/Related_Products.html

Email or PM Ryan and ask him if he changes the VSS constant when programming the OBD II computers, or if he remembers being specifically asked to do it on that computer. He's a fast responder. There's a standing chance he didn't, because lots of people simply T the wires going to the box with the wires going to the instruments. And a great many people use the automatic which uses a similar if not same constant.

Ryan also offers a cheap and long term reflash policy. I've only ever had him reprogram PROM's for the older computers, but if I needed a parameter tweaked or a quick change, the fee was $5 + shipping for a new re-flashed chip. I can't remember how long that policy lasts after the purchase, but that computer may still be under "warranty", if you will. Dunno what policies he has for the later year boxes, which don't have removable PROM's.

One more solution might be to pull that late model VSS and replace it with a Fiero VSS, if it will fit.

If that works then you can T-tap the VSS output to both the PCM and directly to the speedo.

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz:One more solution might be to pull that late model VSS and replace it with a Fiero VSS, if it will fit.

A gear driven VSS is much too large to fit the opening; the base of the sensor is too large, and the gear is about twice the size of the magnet. The steel reluctor is much larger in diameter than the plastic gear that mounts to older two shaft transmission differentials. The older drive gear also uses two tabs to hold it in its relative position on the differential. The reluctor is press fit. So even if the reluctor shared the same diameter, the tabs would interfere, and the gear would spin on about the differential, provided it met the resistance.