Did a good amount today. I didn't like the way I had the 2nd engine mount, so I added another piece onto it to get it away from that exhaust hump the cradle has. I like it much better now. I also started making the rear transmission mount...didn't go as well, I just didn't tack it together right and kept drilling holes in the wrong areas, so I broke it apart again and I'm going to start over using the same pieces. I did remove the knuckle/strut assembly from the control arms and took the 3800/F23 off the cradle. I did some cutting on the cradle to clear the rear mount I made, and it's going to be cleaned and painted next, along with holes drilled for the rear sway bar I'm adding (stock fiero front bar).
Page 4 ownage woohoo.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 01-01-2012).]
Today I actually got the big 220 Lincoln "buzz box" that was sitting around here working, I figured out a way to power it. I just can't weld for more then 30 or so seconds continuously or It'll pop the breaker, seems like. No problem, I'm glad I got it work! I welded up three mounts, need to finish the fourth, and start the dog-bone bracket. The welds aren't very pretty but they are strong for sure and you won't see them anyway.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 01-02-2012).]
Today I went over all my welds with the new 6011 rods I got in the mail today, so they aren't nearly as pretty as the 6013's I was using, but it penetrates MUCH more, which is what I'm looking for in this case. With cleaning and paint they look OK, which is just fine since no one with really see them outside of this build thread.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 01-09-2012).]
Did you happen to catch what RPO code your tranny is? M86 or MG3?
Just curious if you had paid attention to this and which you selected, or if you just got the first descent tranny you could find...
It's an M86, and only the M86 has the correct bellhousing for the 2.8/3800/4.9 etc in the 2000 to 2002 Chevrolet Cavalier with the 2.2L I4 (not the ecotec). The only difference between the two is the MG3 has a 0.81 5th gear compared to 0.69 in the M86. The MG3 only came in the Saturn Vue, so if you avoid that, no problems.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 01-05-2012).]
Yeah... the 3.84 final drive and .81 yields about 250 RPM lower than the auto's 3.33 FDR 1.00 third gear at 75MPH... some over drive. LOL
3134 RPM vs. 3397 RPM
Yep, I agree, some overdrive that is. If you really wanted an overdrive and a better suited final drive for the Fiero, one could get an F23 from a cobalt XFE (extra fuel economy) and swap bell housings with the 2000-2002 Cavailer F23. This gives you a 3.63 final drive, and a .69 5th. It's only a 250 RPM difference @ 75 MPH, but the main reason would be the reduction of the individual gear ratios so you don't blow though them so quickly as I'm suspecting will happen otherwise. Sadly, the first gear ratio of the F23 with 3.84 final is even higher then the F40.
But progress today. I drilled all the holes in the cradle for the sway bar, and the cradle is fully coated and dried. I also painted 3 mounts, the 4th isn't quite done yet, and after that I will make the other end of the dogbone bracket. I got my final rubber mount in as well, and that is what I was waiting for to finish my 4th mount bracket.
Mounted the 3800/F23 on the freshly coated cradle. Got three mounts to work good so far, the 4th mount, rear F23 mount, long story short, just didn't work out at all. So I'm cutting it up and starting over. Might just use another dodge truck mount down there, idk. I got too frustrated, so I moved on to the wiring, and did alot of organizing with that. I have issues with wire loom, I have the hardest time getting wires in wire loom, what's the trick? Attached the coolant hoses, too.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 01-09-2012).]
Today started another semester of college, so progress won't be as quick from now on. However, I took some pictures of how the whole thing looks currently.
Today I made the new section on the rear F23 mount, it's going to work much better then before but by now it looks pretty ugly. Very strong though, made out of 1/4" steel like all the other mounts. I painted it and I'll take a picture when It's fully painted and dried. Looks better with paint, lol.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 01-15-2012).]
Originally posted by mattwa: I would be concerned it wouldn't hold or rip out because the load forces would pull it, not push.
Under Accel, the engine rocks 'backwards' so it would push on that. The factory dogbones are in compression, the GTP dogbones, for example, are in tension.
Originally posted by Jncomutt: Under Accel, the engine rocks 'backwards' so it would push on that. The factory dogbones are in compression, the GTP dogbones, for example, are in tension.
I had it backwords so it would actually pull on it, but it doesn't matter as I have decided to move it to a different place.
Did alot today, even though it doesn't seem like it to me. Still wasn't the best day. Worked on the exhaust some a good bit before my 2nd dodge truck mount came in, after that I removed the engine/trans from the cradle again, made some more "adjustments" and drilled the hole for the new mount, and after MUCH struggling, I got it back down in the correct position. I still don't like how the new mount sits, I drilled the hole in the wrong spot and even with enlarging it, the stud barely made it into the hole. This made my 2nd engine mount to be off, so I proceeded to make a slot in it as well...didn't really work out. That's where I stopped, was too tired and frustrated.
Here is a picture of the completed rear F23 mount...ugly. Thankfully no one will see it after it's all done.
Well I finished and got all four mounts completed and bolted down! That thing doesn't move at all, even without a dogbone. I'm still going to finish the dogbone though, better safe then sorry. Tomorrow I'm going to attach the struts/axles next to see how they look.
Thanks guys, I appreciate the comments. Yes I know my body is like a stick figure, but I'm not completely weak.
Moved some things around, and I want to install the axles if I feel up to it. I did take some pictures of the finished mounts I haven't taken a picture of done yet. And before you ask, the big washer is there for a reason. More surface area to clamp on since it's right at the edge of the metal.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 01-16-2012).]
Got the strut assembles/axles installed. The driver's side axle looks compressed somewhat, but oh well. At the same time, the long passenger side axle is not over-extended at all. So I have come to the conclusion that the differential area of the F23 is wider because of the beefier differential, so it pushes the stock axles out some, so they become slightly too long, but it apparently works just fine. Also removed and tossed the bent up brake dust shields, as they are useless.
After that, I continued with the dogbone. Here is what I got. I plan to weld the two pieces together once I have finalized the position it needs to be in.
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06:52 PM
MRose Member
Posts: 267 From: west palm fl Registered: Nov 2011
Yeah... but those arms of yours don't make 230 ft./lbs. of torque...
The part that actually matters in all of this is that the mounts are sound and the fact that you didn't just write a check for your swap.
A point of clarification: the 230 lb-ft is the engine torque and in a longitudinal setup with a rear differential that would be all the mounts have to withstand. However, in a transverse setup, the mounts must be stout enough to stay put under the axle torque the drivetrain will see. With the F23 having an overall ratio of 13.91 in first gear, there could be 3200 lb-ft of torque at the axles at max torque, in first gear, if you have adequate traction. That is the critical torque the mounts should be designed to withstand.
A point of clarification: the 230 lb-ft is the engine torque and in a longitudinal setup with a rear differential that would be all the mounts have to withstand. However, in a transverse setup, the mounts must be stout enough to stay put under the axle torque the drivetrain will see. With the F23 having an overall ratio of 13.91 in first gear, there could be 3200 lb-ft of torque at the axles at max torque, in first gear, if you have adequate traction. That is the critical torque the mounts should be designed to withstand.
Come on now... I was only speaking of revving in idle.
You and your fancy maths... I was actually reading an article a couple of weeks ago about the BMW M3 and how much torque the tires/axles needed to cope with during a hard launch in 1st. Not a friendly environment.
I welded up the dogbone bracket today, however when Alex came over he said it should have a gusset, I agree completely and it didn't hit me to add one...I shall do that tomorrow, along with working on the exhaust.
Added the gusset to the dog-bone today...worked out pretty good. All five mounts are now finished at this point. I order a bunch of wireloom so we can start getting that finished up, and I'm working on the exhaust, thought it's not turning out very well so far.
Since the weather was very nice for January, I took the time to work on the car itself and I got alot done! I disassembled the rest of the center console, removed the throttle cable and replaced it the with 87-88 cable I had (and got my hand shredded to prove it), and installed a nearly perfect center console skeleton and trashed the old one, it was really bad. I started reassembling the center console again, and started the process of adding the Aux gauge pod, just need to do the wiring now.I also installed both shift cables, however I did have a problem with the custom F23 shift cable I need to mention. The hole on the custom shift cable that goes over the pin on the shift lever, was too small! I had to go to my drill press and drill it out a slight amount. The peg on the Fiero shifter is very very close to 1/4", and a 1/4" drill bit wouldn't fit though the hole, so I drilled it out to 1/4" which took off a slight amount, then I was able to push it on the shifter. No play whatsoever either, it's quite tight. Some oil helped it move easier though.
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12:43 AM
L67 Member
Posts: 1792 From: Winston Salem, NC Registered: Jun 2010
What Matt is talking about here is the bushing at the end of the cable that connects to the shifter arm at the console. Sometimes the supplied bushing is tighter than the peg its supposed to slide over. The bushing is soft, and easily drilled to a larger size. I recommend 5/16" or 9/32".
What Matt is talking about here is the bushing at the end of the cable that connects to the shifter arm at the console. Sometimes the supplied bushing is tighter than the peg its supposed to slide over. The bushing is soft, and easily drilled to a larger size. I recommend 5/16" or 9/32".
I haven't been working on this project lately because I have been making the F23 shifter brackets, which are now for sale in the mall, but I do have some updates. I drilled and tapped the bottom of the L67 throttle body for the PCV inlet on the L26 intake. After a 90* elbow and an adapter, I have a 1/4" barb fitting for a vacuum line. It's quite hidden, you can't really see it when you view the 3800 like you would in the engine bay.
I also got brand new high temperature black wire loom to loom the harness. 10 feet of 1" and 25 feet of 1/2" It was the smallest quantity they offered, but it's not a big issue, I'm sure it can be used in the other Fiero's around here if they need it (Goldie might).
Got a good amount done on this today. I cut the old rusted out battery tray out, and the original dog bone mount. Finally got the 5/8"-3/4" hose adapter that I need, and I found out I need alot less hose then I thought I did, which I bought already...oh well. Next I soldered in the aux gauges and installed the rest of the interior except for the shifter plate and rear console, since I still need to attach the wires inside first. Then I removed the passenger headlight assembly to start work on putting a battery tray down there like fieroguru did. Bad news, I forgot about the crash damage in that corner of the frame...I'm going to have to make some clearance with my sledge hammer.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 02-08-2012).]
Today my mom and I worked on Skye; she cleaned the engine bay, while I cut the metal out under the passenger headlight for the battery relocation, as well as remove the stock brake booster and cut off the banjo and bracket in preparation for the larger Blazer brake booster. I forgot how much of a PITA those 4 brake booster nuts where to remove, but I did it.
Busy and productive day! Today I decided to take this swap further then I originally was going to. I want this to be the cleanest swap I have ever made so far. (Technically this is swap #4 for me.) So I removed ALL the old insulation, cut down all un-needed mounting tabs, relocating the C500, making a new power "center point" in the interior where the ECM once was, and I moved the EVAP canister to under passenger wheel well. I'm also going to make a sheet metal cover plate that bolts on the firewall to "cover" the wiring connectors, shift cables, throttle cable, etc.
Got the big brake booster, battery terminals, and a battery cut-off switch for the battery. Also got some hose I needed for a few things. I'm getting excited to finish this project!
Today my mom and I worked on the wiring, I finished up the main harness while she started looming on the opposite side. She did a great job! I loomed some as well.
We also bought several items items yesterday for this project, including wire terminals, 11 feet of 2 gauge wire for the battery, and a piece of 24x24 sheet metal for the battery tray and a few other items.
Update pictures, my mom did a bunch of looming with me again today. It's not done yet, but its getting there. most of the main harness behind the engine is finished, as well as the speed sensor and reverse light switch under the rear exhaust manifold. I also started making the battery tray and it's 75% done.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 02-12-2012).]
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05:38 PM
Pete Matos Member
Posts: 2291 From: Port St. Lucie, Florida Registered: Jan 2010
Matt, Hey man that is looking pretty good. Hopefully you will be getting the thing installed and running in short order. I know you are a beginning welder and only have an arc welder to do this with. Might I recommend you see about investing in an inexpensive wire feed welder. You could probably post your current welder on Craigslist and sell it to pay for most of the new one. I personally love the Tig welder but that is generally far too expensive. Hell even Harbor Freight has a little mig unit that is 220v that actually gets decent reviews. It would make your projects much easier to do and also faster. Here is a cheap one that is halfway decent.
You can oftentimes buy these with a percentage off coupon and get them pretty cheap. They are NO miller or Lincoln but will work fine for what you are doing. That one you can even add a little reg and hose and rent a small bottle and be doing actual mig welding or just use the flux core setup. I have read where some guys have replaced parts of the electrical systems on these with cheap electrical components and get them to be more powerful as well as smoother in the arc. Something to consider. Understand I am not bagging on your work just trying to make it easier on you. The only stick welder worth having IMHO is a large powerful DC unit. You would be amazed at how smooth a DC stick unit works... Good luck and I cannot wait to read about your engine first start and first test drive... peace
Thanks for the advice, but here is my situation. I do have a 110V flux core wire-feed welder, the big 220V stick welder isn't even mine..I'm borrowing it from a friend for this project. I use the 110V welder for the exhaust work and steel up too 1/8" thick, works good enough for what I need to do at this time. I needed the 220V welder to do my mounts I made out of 1/4" steel. The welds are ugly but you don't see them, the paint helped a good bit, and they seem to be very strong. I wouldn't call myself a true beginner, but I'm no expert at all, I know that. I'm not going to buy another welder until I buy my own house and move out, it's just not setup for that stuff here. When I do buy another welder, I'm not going to play around, I will save up for good equipment. I plan to get something similar to what I used in highschool, the Millermatic 120.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 02-13-2012).]
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06:24 PM
Pete Matos Member
Posts: 2291 From: Port St. Lucie, Florida Registered: Jan 2010
I am just saying that you do not need to wait for that. If you have a 110v flux core and an arc unit you could probably sell both and buy a 220v mig/flux unit and be much better off. I actually have a mig similar to that miller and it is nice but quite honestly I almost never use it as I only use the Tig anymore. I just like the control it affords me. If you have used that miller in school then you understand the difference between what you are using and what your COULD be using. A 110v flux core USUALLY does not have enough balls to weld thicker material and even if it could it is not smooth at all. I had one and used it a bit before I sold it. Anyways, whatever works for you is good for me man. It just seems like you are trying to do some cool stuff and you are hampered by what you are using to get it done. You obviously have some good ideas and can figure out the way to make things work. Good luck man and peace
Thankfully no one will see it after it's all done.
Not a friendly environment. 
