Yea those three "wings" hit the Differential bearing area. And when I say hit I mean HIT, as in I can't turn the engine over any-farther with a breaker bar type of hit.

What step is it hitting?

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

The last one.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 04-18-2012).]

Maybe you can fix it with just a little grinding:

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F.../083654-11.html#p401

quote Originally posted by schmoken: Maybe you can fix it with just a little grinding: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F.../083654-11.html#p401

I surely hope so. I don't want to spend another $400 on the pos.

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

I just replaced the PP with the replacement getrag one I had before, since it's an N/A I don't foresee too many issues, plus I rather not grind away at that area if I can help it.

i think L67 covered this clearance issue. unless it was someone lese but they high lighted the area on the pressure plate you had to grind down a little for clearance.


edited

you know im gonna take that back i think it was fieroguru who did a write up on it.

[This message has been edited by Niterrorz (edited 04-15-2012).]

I'm assuming you have seen the SPEC PP I used, I'm not going to grind down those three large areas the necessary amount, I would be removing too much material in key areas.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 04-15-2012).]

quote Originally posted by mattwa: I'm assuming you have seen the SPEC PP I used, I'm not going to grind down those three large areas the necessary amount, I would be removing too much material in key areas.

ya i saw it, ive never seen one in person and didnt know it would be taking that much away from a critical area. obviously this is at your discretion and rightfully so, you said you have the stock 2.8 clutch on it now? or did you go with the heavy duty one?

I have the "stock replacement" pressure plate on there that I had before the HTOB blew up, I know that one clears without a problem, but I have the SPEC stage 2+ clutch disk installed as well.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 04-15-2012).]

Do I understand you correctly that a Spec 3 clutch and PP combo is likely to hit when using an F23??

quote Originally posted by Niterrorz: i think L67 covered this clearance issue. unless it was someone lese but they high lighted the area on the pressure plate you had to grind down a little for clearance. edited you know im gonna take that back i think it was fieroguru who did a write up on it.

It wasn't me. I was a contributor to the F23 tutorial (mostly from the SBC side of things), but I would not recommend grinding on a pressure plate... it is a balanced assembly spinning inches from your spine and needs to remain balanced.

I did run into a similar interference issue between the differential bulge and the pressure plate on my F40 swap using the 3000GT pressure plate... then switched to the 4.0L Range one.

Quick question here if on your swap you needed to extend the HTOB with a spacer to prevent over extension would it not be better for some one starting from scratch to just have the F body flywheel machined down that much less and run it that way or would that cause problems with hitting the bell housing on the F23 tranny with the clutch that much closer. Dan

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http://www.photosled.com/showgallery.php/cat/631

quote Originally posted by cam-a-lot: Do I understand you correctly that a Spec 3 clutch and PP combo is likely to hit when using an F23??

If your PP looks like mine, then yes.


It's those large "wings" that hit, which look to hold the springs.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 04-15-2012).]

So is this just an issue with the Spec3 clutch? I think I remember in the F23 tutorial thread that it was mentioned the Spec3+ would work with the Fbody flywheel without issue?

It doesn't have to do much with the type of clutch disk, as much as the pressure plate height/design. I think all the "5-speed" Spec Fiero clutches use the same pressure plate, like the spec 3 and 3+ just use different clutch disks and the same pressure plate, but I could be wrong on that. I heard the Superclamp/3+ combo clears though.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 04-15-2012).]

In this thread where I had some problems with my stage 5 I received three different pressure plates from spec. The shortest one which didn't hit the inside of my 282 trans look like the same one Matt has that hits the f23 diff. I got that style with my stage 3 several years ago also.

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...120111-2-108270.html

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

[This message has been edited by Justinbart (edited 04-15-2012).]

Ah okay, I wasn't sure if they used the same pressure plate or not. Thanks

Hitting that area of the bellhousing is a known problem that I have discussed quite a while ago, I also posted pictures about where it hits, pictures of the grinding I did, and pictures of the pressure plate highlighted with what rubbed. When I installed my superclamp and 3+ disc, it did NOT hit an unmodified trans. YMMV.

If you're daring, when I FIRST did my swap, i saw how little it would hit, assembled everything, jumped the starter, the PP took material off the trans, and I was good. I was so frustrated when I first did the swap that it "wouldn't work" that I said F-it, and let it clear itself. I took it back apart, assessed the damage, and then just ran it as it was. Bleh.

Hmm, just realized the pics are gone..
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/106813.html

[This message has been edited by Jncomutt (edited 04-16-2012).]

I didn't know of the thread, and I dont think many others did either.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 04-16-2012).]

I checked out the pressure plate interference today and I agree that it is a very small amount. I decided I'm going to take a chance a do a small amount of grinding then let the pressure plate do the rest if it hits. I think its worth the risk instead of getting a new clutch + flywheel resurfacing.

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

Mine with the Spec2+ had no interference issues with the trans at all, but its pretty well known that specs pressure plates are often not the same even with the same clutch package. Why this is I dont know time of manufacture perhaps?

quote Originally posted by mattwa: Here is a picture of the completed rear F23 mount...ugly. Thankfully no one will see it after it's all done.

Would you be willing to make a cardboard or paper template of this mount and mail it to me? Also what size tap did you use to thread the holes in the Tranny case you used?
Send me a PM.


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****************************************

88 Formula CJB Arrived Finally. #689 of 1252
Time to start Working TONY!
There are Two kinds of Fiero's : Notchies and Donors!

[This message has been edited by Kento (edited 04-17-2012).]

Did some fitting today with the series III 3800SC that had the Fiero 5 speed Getrag that blew up and SPEC III clutch and yes I definitely need the .250 HTOB spacer to run the F23 but there is no interference of the clutch to the tranny on this one.
Just need to make up some mounts rewire for the different speedo sensor and reverse light switch connectors while I wait for the HTOB spacer. Dan

quote Also what size tap did you use to thread the holes in the Tranny case you used?

m10x1.5 with a 8.5mm or 21/64 drill bit.

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

Alex and I got the cradle in today, and hooked up most of the things, the only things left are the alternator which is currently being painted (and thus the belt) and I need to figure out what to do for the heater lines, trying to use what I have here before going out and buying more stuff.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 04-18-2012).]

What sensors are those connected to the Vacuum ports on the L26 UIM? I notice the turbo L67 guys who swap over to the L26 don't have any sensors there.

The sensor by the TB is the EVAP sensor, most rid of it as it's just an emissions device and there aren't codes for it if you don't have it with a Fiero tune. The sensor by the belt is the MAP/PCV. The Vacuum port on the top is for the PCV inlet, and it's run to the TB before the throttle plate, but after the MAF so the air it draws is metered.

Well, what a busy day it has been. I did alot of little things today, installed the alternator and belt, bled the clutch and brakes, installed the exhaust tips, cut the coolant tube where it was crushed and replaced it with a hose, fixed several problems just doing that, put the rear tires on, etc.

I started it up for first time back in the car, and it ran ok. Clutch works great now, no problems there. After I got mostly everything buttoned up and the decklid re-installed (which was after the pictures I took) I went for another short test drive! Besides the horrible alignment, it was awesome! Shifts great, the gears weren't as short as I thought, Lots more power then I expected, engine just purrs accelerating from a corner in 2nd. I used 1-4, and they all work. Clutch isn't too harsh either, thankfully. I'm having trouble with Reverse because of something with the cables, but everything else is great. It was only a total of like 1/2 mile and nothing over 30mph.




However, when I got back, the 3800 wasn't sounding so healthy anymore. It has a not quiet but not loud knocking sound, and has some blue smoke coming out. It sounds too infrequent and too quiet to be a true rod knock. It's kinda random, not really having a "beat" too it, if you know what I mean. I have plenty of oil and no lack of oil pressure. My only guess is that it overheated from not having coolant/ or not enough flow, I don't know. Everything was very hot. I put more coolant/water in it, but didn't seem to do much so I removed the Thermostat and it looked like this.


After that, the coolant was flowing, as the hose coming off the thermostat housing got hot quick, and so did the hose on the radiator. What I do know, is that the PCM was telling me the coolant temp was 183F a few minutes after I got back from my drive, (shut it off and had to get my OBD2 bluetooth scanner) and after I removed the thermostat and cooled off a bit, it went down to about 134F (running). I also took this video of it after I removed the thermostat, and just before I packed up for the day, I was beat (still am).

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 04-22-2012).]

My first rule of thumb when troubleshooting an issue is going back to the last thing I messes with. With that is the sound coming from the trans area of the motor?

I'm not sure. It wasn't making that noise as much today, as I took it for another test drive, and it did just fine. The weather is much colder then yesterday though. I was watching the temperature on my phone and it was normal.

What is annoying me now is the fact that when during a cold start, it has a hard time idling for some reason. The IAC opens up (you can hear it), the engine revs up quite high, and then the IAC closes, the RPM drops down fast and almost stalls (it does 50% of the time), repeat. When it's warmed up it's fine. Is this because of the leaking Brake booster? That is another thing that is annoying me, the remanufactured S-10 brake booster is leaking vacuum. Anything I can do to fix that?

Also, the Tachometer is way off and temp gauges don't work, it pegs in Run but after I start the engine it goes to 100 and stays there.

Edit: Just went on a longer test drive with my dad, and overall everything went ok. I got a code, though. P0140.

I talked to Ryan, I gotta fix those vacuum leaks, since I didn't know it would effect it so much but being a MAF system, I guess it does.

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 04-21-2012).]

quote Originally posted by mattwa: I'm not sure. It wasn't making that noise as much today, as I took it for another test drive, and it did just fine. The weather is much colder then yesterday though. I was watching the temperature on my phone and it was normal. What is annoying me now is the fact that when during a cold start, it has a hard time idling for some reason. The IAC opens up (you can hear it), the engine revs up quite high, and then the IAC closes, the RPM drops down fast and almost stalls (it does 50% of the time), repeat. When it's warmed up it's fine. Is this because of the leaking Brake booster? That is another thing that is annoying me, the remanufactured S-10 brake booster is leaking vacuum. Anything I can do to fix that? Also, the Tachometer is way off and temp gauges don't work, it pegs in Run but after I start the engine it goes to 100 and stays there. Edit: Just went on a longer test drive with my dad, and overall everything went ok. I got a code, though. P0140. I talked to Ryan, I gotta fix those vacuum leaks, since I didn't know it would effect it so much but being a MAF system, I guess it does.

Fix you vacuum leak as that can cause an idle issue for sure.....

I'll work on that. However ryan says that my file never had the rear O2 disabled, that is what my code is, no activity on Bank 1 Sensor 2. So I will have to remove it and send it in again to have it disabled. Man am I getting tired of this crap, and this project, so discouraging. Problems popping up left and right so it seems...

[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 04-21-2012).]

I agree, I know on my swap if I accidently unplug one of my vacuum lines, idle turns ugly. I know right away when theres a vacuum line unplugged, very noticable.

Well I got the shifter issue sorted out, I re-made the vacuum line for the FPR, so that leak is fixed, and I did confirm the brake booster is leaking for some reason. It runs much better when I remove the line to the booster and plug it with my finger. And some more small stuff.

Getting there!

quote Originally posted by mattwa: I'll work on that. However ryan says that my file never had the rear O2 disabled, that is what my code is, no activity on Bank 1 Sensor 2. So I will have to remove it and send it in again to have it disabled. Man am I getting tired of this crap, and this project, so discouraging. Problems popping up left and right so it seems...

I know the feeling.....It took me 3 months to hunt down an ongoing issue on my first swap with alot of head aches. But I finally found the issue and after that it was a good feeling. I have found unless u need the car to work on it here and there....This will keep you from getting bummed out when things are going wrong....

quote Originally posted by doublec4: I agree, I know on my swap if I accidently unplug one of my vacuum lines, idle turns ugly. I know right away when theres a vacuum line unplugged, very noticable.

I always notice it with my wideband. It will idle at about 19:1 with a vacuum leak. ....handy little tool.

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Turbo 3800 E85 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

quote Originally posted by Justinbart: I always notice it with my wideband. It will idle at about 19:1 with a vacuum leak. ....handy little tool.

I would get one If I could afford it, which I can't. But it's not as useful if you don't have any boost.