quote Originally posted by Justinbart: I could always use a little side work.

My friends dad doesn't believe you made 500WHP on a stock 3800 (excluding injectors). He said it's 100% not possible to double the horsepower of a 3800 without any big supporting mods and not have it blow up. Is that true or am I missing something? And I couldn't find your Turbo on ebay for a price under $900 but I may have been looking for the wrong one...

quote Originally posted by mattwa: My friends dad doesn't believe you made 500WHP on a stock 3800 (excluding injectors). He said it's 100% not possible to double the horsepower of a 3800 without any big supporting mods and not have it blow up. Is that true or am I missing something? And I couldn't find your Turbo on ebay for a price under $900 but I may have been looking for the wrong one...

Anything is possible....some motors are freaks of nature....lol

He is right as E85 and a big azz W/A IC are enormous supporting mods.

quote Originally posted by nosrac: Anything is possible....some motors are freaks of nature....lol He is right as E85 and a big azz W/A IC are enormous supporting mods.

it probably doesnt even need the intercooler for a wussy 500whp.

The turbo's have gone up in price. There was one guy selling them by the truck load when the recall was going on. I think it was around $90 shipped. I wish I had bought a few so I could flip them. I didn't think they would become so popular.

500whp...psh

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Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

Here is the pictures of the swap from Northrich Automotive (Todd Lao's shop in Richardson, TX)

Please comment and be honest:

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Air filter was not extended...like it should have been and was requested.

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Interesting place to run the wiring....WTF?

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He thinks its OK to first not re-wire the trunk release switch (even though it was attached & working when I brought him the car),
but even better is that he thought it was OK not to strap down the dangling cord where it could get caught up in the belt and pulleys.

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WOW...I didn't realize that residential copper plumbing insulation was used for insulation for engines!

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HUMMM...maybe some of the wires are run to close in some areas...not even 20 miles on the swap since
...she won't stay running, and looks like we have melting on the wire covers!

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My grandson could have done a better job of cutting that cut more cleanly...just poor workmanship!

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HEY at least he did one thing right...he relocated the battery to the front...but that isn't right either
...just pretty much threw the battery into the spare tire, instead of doing the cut out behind the spare
...like everyone else and as I personally requested.

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When she went into the shop...she had perfect rims...they had all their plastic lug nut covers all Fiero center
caps and no scratches on the black painted part of the rims.

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Lets look at all the scratches and body damage that I received for FREE:

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Thinking this was maybe caused by the hydraulic lifts.

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Not sure how they crunched this...but the back part is crushed inward causing the crack & separation.

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[This message has been edited by TXOPIE (edited 06-10-2012).]

Looks good to me.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Looks good to me.

Marketing 101...presentation, presentation, presentation.

I have already told Jim my thoughts on the car and what it needs to clean it up. The down side is those needed things are going to cost the owner more money which at this point he should not have to be dealing with. But you live and learn many things thru life and for him this is a learning experiance....

quote Originally posted by nosrac: Marketing 101...presentation, presentation, presentation.

A well presented pile of garbage is still a pile of garbage.

This project looks very functional, and I do not see anything of concern other than possibly a wire or 2 that may wiggle into the belt area over time.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: A well presented pile of garbage is still a pile of garbage. This project looks very functional, and I do not see anything of concern other than possibly a wire or 2 that may wiggle into the belt area over time.

Main concerns r wires that are not plugged into anything that are just hanging, the filter still in the engine bay, the fuel lines used/routing of fuel lines, the large opening thru the firewall that was filled with pipe insatiom. While the swap is functional with as common as the swap is today the finished product should loom much better.

Well one more step closer to the finish line today. I went and picked up my daily driver, so I have something to drive while Stephen cleans up my 3800 SC swap on the 86GT:

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Thank you Tom Slick for pointing me to this little gem of an 88GT for my daily driver...OK...paint is cute for a girl, but going to repaint next weekend most likely.

quote Originally posted by TXOPIE: paint is cute for a girl, but going to repaint next weekend most likely.

Surrrrrre you will

quote Originally posted by TXOPIE: Well one more step closer to the finish line today. I went and picked up my daily driver, so I have something to drive while Stephen cleans up my 3800 SC swap on the 86GT: code: Thank you Tom Slick for pointing me to this little gem of an 88GT for my daily driver...OK...paint is cute for a girl, but going to repaint next weekend most likely.

Keep it Pink....lol

I likie....

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: A well presented pile of garbage is still a pile of garbage. This project looks very functional, and I do not see anything of concern other than possibly a wire or 2 that may wiggle into the belt area over time.

This is why people aren't lined up waiting for you to do their higher end swaps. No one can take your speed accomplishments away from you, but no one will ever talk about the quality of your work either. One day I think you're going to do a nicer build just to show you can, then your phone will probably ring off the hook with people wanting their car to look like yours. When people take the time to do something properly it's usually a higher quality of work all around, not just aesthetically. Right now you're all function over form, so you're not in the same arena as bmwguru, Darth, Loyde, Fierofreak00, etc (sorry guys I know I left a TON of clean installers out but there are just too many to list), no matter how much you'd like to be.

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 06-16-2012).]

OK...will post more picts shortly, but here is the the quick and dirty....$3100, 88GT, 5Speed, literally factory perfect interior, upgraded rims and fresh tires...it was s true steal at the price.

Inside looks very clean

I think I will call that car Pepto

Wow man.....that was ALMOST a nice comment man.... I mean I know you two guys hqve gone round and round about your swaps but that is about as nice a comment as I have seen between you two yet. It is also pretty much what I have been saying as well so I agree with you. He may not make the installs all shiny and chrome and powdercoated beauty but they sure as hell go like greased stink!! I don't doubt that if he did make an install that was more show quality that still hauled ass it would be perfect hehehe.....peace

Pete

quote [B]Originally posted by mp This is why people aren't lined up waiting for you to do their higher end swaps. No one can take your speed accomplishments away from you, but no one will ever talk about the quality of your work either. One day I think you're going to do a nicer build just to show you can, then your phone will probably ring off the hook with people wanting their car to look like yours. When people take the time to do something properly it's usually a higher quality of work all around, not just aesthetically. Right now you're all function over form, so you're not in the same arena as bmwguru, Darth, Loyde, Fierofreak00, etc (sorry guys I know I left a TON of clean installers out but there are just too many to list), no matter how much you'd like to be.

Pete ...the pink one above is the one I was discussing with you the other night.

Oh okay that's cool....I have seen that car in pictures several times on here before. Sure would be considerably cooler with that engine swap hehehe.....peace

Pete

quote Originally posted by mptighe: This is why people aren't lined up waiting for you to do their higher end swaps. No one can take your speed accomplishments away from you, but no one will ever talk about the quality of your work either. One day I think you're going to do a nicer build just to show you can, then your phone will probably ring off the hook with people wanting their car to look like yours. When people take the time to do something properly it's usually a higher quality of work all around, not just aesthetically. Right now you're all function over form, so you're not in the same arena as bmwguru, Darth, Loyde, Fierofreak00, etc (sorry guys I know I left a TON of clean installers out but there are just too many to list), no matter how much you'd like to be.

1. I dont do swaps for money.
2. I dont care what people think about how I put my car together
3. I get plenty of requests from people to work on their cars.
4. Fiero swaps make 1/10 the money that my other car projects make (late model collision repair), and the chances of getting a "never satisfied" customer is pretty much always going to be the case, which further makes it not worth the job in the first place.
5. I work 50+ hours a week at my engineering job.
6. The biggest reasons I work on cars is to figure out new things, and repeating old crap over and over again is not at all fun to me (as this is just my hobby).

quote so you're not in the same arena as bmwguru

I know, I could never aspire to spending a year working on a simple project and still not have it running.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I know, I could never aspire to spending a year working on a simple project and still not have it running.

Nothing simple about my project really. It's the first turbo 3800 F40 swap done in a Fiero, and I didn't want it Macgyvered, so it had to be nice looking as well. Dave also works 50+ hours a week and has more to work on than my car, so yeah it took a while. You and I definitely agree that Fiero owners are a hard bunch to please.

quote It's the first turbo 3800 F40 swap done in a Fiero,

The turbo just adds so many degrees of difficulty then eh?

The F40 swap has been done more than a good number of times... I mean a local out here did one without any internet resources even and it works fine...

The turbo 3800 part is IMO easier than a supercharged 3800... so I dont see why the combination is any harder.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: The turbo just adds so many degrees of difficulty then eh? The F40 swap has been done more than a good number of times... I mean a local out here did one without any internet resources even and it works fine... The turbo 3800 part is IMO easier than a supercharged 3800... so I dont see why the combination is any harder.

See Scott, this is why you and I will never get along. There isn't a completed documented 3800 / F40 in a Fiero anywhere that I'm aware of. As far as there being a "good number of times", there were only a couple of non Fieros with 3800 / F40 that I could find as well. You're saying the F40 "works fine" for this guy, but one of the reasons you ragged on my build because it wasn't going to hold up supposedly, even though you didn't have anything to back up your statement.

A few years ago, when I first looked into doing this, I was told by EVERYONE that it wasn't being done, and probably couldn't be done. This came from Darth, Loyde, and even WCF when I originally started asking around about this combo. No a turbo 3800 isn't the hard part, it was making this transmission work with the 3800, and making it capable of handling the power. My car has more in it than a turbo, 3800, and F40. It's had more than just engine work done, and a lot of work had to be done to fix the screw ups from the previous shops.

I still stand behind what I said. One day you might care about how things look and function, and your work will improve. I'm glad you like working on these cars, and you had an impact on the forum with what you did. However, when you can't even make your own stuff look halfway decent, taking your self comparison to the more professional builders is difficult at best.

quote Originally posted by mptighe: There isn't a completed documented 3800 / F40 in a Fiero anywhere that I'm aware of.

There are plenty. Do a search. Thats not counting the wbodies that have them.

quote As far as there being a "good number of times", there were only a couple of non Fieros with 3800 / F40 that I could find as well. You're saying the F40 "works fine" for this guy, but one of the reasons you ragged on my build because it wasn't going to hold up supposedly, even though you didn't have anything to back up your statement.

I said plenty of times why it wont work, your buddy just seems to have a better "on paper" expatiation that makes the one i have from experience invalid for some reason.

quote and a lot of work had to be done to fix the screw ups from the previous shops.

And a running driving turbo car built the way you said it should be built was "a screw up"... Keep dreaming... (remember what I said about the never satisfied fiero customer?)

quote One day you might care about how things look and function, and your work will improve.

"professionals" are still trying to catch up to me.... so I dont see how i could aspire to "improve" anything... nor do I see any reason I would want to waste the time.

quote I'm glad you like working on these cars, and you had an impact on the forum with what you did. However, when you can't even make your own stuff look halfway decent, taking your self comparison to the more professional builders is difficult at best.

Its difficult because everyone else works within the box that is limited by time, engineering skills, and money... The fact that I am not limited to a specific look or form grants me the ability to go well above and beyond trying to just impress some old guy at a carshow with a powdercoated intake manifold at the cost of performance and engineering.

I still say all of this just stems from the fact that you guys can pay to have your cars look like they perform BETTER than mine, but in reality can not even come close to the reliability and performance that my "junk" has.

Txopie, nice car
I had a chance to buy it when I was looking for a GT but I didn`t have it in my budget to get a paint job.
I ended up buying Tom`s and I have never looked back.
I like the stripes if only the other color would have been White, Red, Yellow..................

quote Originally posted by TXOPIE: Thank you Tom Slick for pointing me to this little gem of an 88GT for my daily driver...OK...paint is cute for a girl, but going to repaint next weekend most likely.

Hey what color are you planning for it?

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: There are plenty. Do a search. Thats not counting the wbodies that have them.

BTW, for the record, I did a search, still no COMPLETED AND DOCUMENTED 3800 / F40 Fiero's showing up in any search I've performed. I've also only found 2 - 3 WBodies that have done them successfully as well. Just because people on forums are talking about them as if they've been done doesn't mean they actually have been done. Feel free to show links to this now common swap. If you can't I wholeheartedly suggest you quit talking out of your ass about it.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I know, I could never aspire to spending a year working on a simple project and still not have it running.

It runs and drives....sorry I didn't send out the formal invite to ya It would have been done a lot sooner, but Spec kinda screwed the pooch on their flywheel setup. I screwed up by trusting them to have the proper measurements.

Michaels car will be at the GM Nationals (Carlisle) on this Saturday .

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www.hausofguru.com

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: It runs and drives....sorry I didn't send out the formal invite to ya It would have been done a lot sooner, but Spec kinda screwed the pooch on their flywheel setup. I screwed up by trusting them to have the proper measurements. Michaels car will be at the GM Nationals (Carlisle) on this Saturday .

making boost? Crack the wastegate open yet?


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Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

[This message has been edited by Justinbart (edited 06-21-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Justinbart: making boost? Crack the wastegate open yet?

It still needs to be tuned. Dave's had to take it easy to make sure the issue from SPEC is completely resolved before he puts it under load. The funny thing is the comment DH made about the car before...

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: And a running driving turbo car built the way you said it should be built was "a screw up"... Keep dreaming... (remember what I said about the never satisfied fiero customer?)

When I got the car back from Zack, which WASN'T built the way I wanted it to be, the car was barely able to make a 10 mile trip. The engine knocked so bad, I was literally holding my AAA card in my hand waiting for the engine to fail. There was smoke pouring out of the back of the car so badly that at stop lights I was having a hard time breathing. The car wouldn't go over 50 and barely got up to that, and this was AFTER Zack did some tuning on it. I have a video of the car driving on Dave's lot, and it sounds amazing considering it still needs to be tuned. I think people at Carlisle will appreciate the work that's been put into it. After the show, it will go to the dyno and get tuned, then Dave has my permission to beat on it to break it in before I come to pick it up.

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 06-21-2012).]

You are running bigger injectors on a stock tune? WTF?

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: You are running bigger injectors on a stock tune? WTF?

I don't know what your problem is, but every time Michael's car is mentioned, you pollute the thread with misinformation. You have no clue what turbo or cam is in the car, but you flap your mouth stating that the wrong parts are installed.
You really need to grow up and get over the fact you were severely picked on on high school a few years ago.

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Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

It isn't top secret...I just didn't want to put together a build thread....Just like my orange and black Fiero....no build thread. It is none of your business what I do with my car. The only pics I posted of the GOF so far show the car stripped to the bare frame and about 3 coats of POR 15 on it. If you use the search feature, you'll find completed pics of Michael's swap....it isn't on display...nor kept in the dark.
Regardless of what you and DH say, I could care less. Your opinion doesn't matter to me cause you ain't signing the check. My only opinions come from me, Ryan and the owner of the Fiero. After Michael's car is complete, we won't be building Fieros for a year or two. (we will service and maintain/mod the swaps we built), but we need a break and both are undecided if we want to continue to build Fieros or something more in our line of work on German cars.

Dave

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: You are running bigger injectors on a stock tune? WTF?

I thought you were the 3800 god. So basically the car should not be started until it's been tuned? It should be tuned before it goes to the dyno? So the car should be trailered to the dyno and tuned without ever first starting the engine?

Zack "tuned" the car with his laptop and it was barely even running. I can tell just by the video that the car is running a hell of a lot better now before it's even been tuned. Driving it around the lot on a stock tune to make sure everything is engaging correctly isn't going to cause an issue. Again, Dave is doing something no one has accomplished before, a few have been done in other cars and a few have been ATTEMPTED in Fieros, but my car is the first Fiero to have this combination SUCCESSFULLY swapped.

By the time you did your first 3800, they had already been done by MANY people and were well documented. You didn't originate anything other than a ghetto approach which has been heavily criticized on its poor quality by the professionals you claim are trying to compete with you. Your car is faster, big whoop. Faster doesn't mean better, like you said its junk. I'd rather have fast quality than faster junk.

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 06-22-2012).]

quote Originally posted by mptighe: I thought you were the 3800 god. So basically the car should not be started until it's been tuned? It should be tuned before it goes to the dyno? So the car should be trailered to the dyno and tuned without ever first starting the engine?

The car has been base tuned. It runs nice, no knocking or oil/water mixing like before we got it. The transmission has more than two gears....so far...so good.

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: The car has been base tuned. It runs nice, no knocking or oil/water mixing like before we got it. The transmission has more than two gears....so far...so good.

I figured it had, but didn't want to say anything specific since I didn't know to what degree.