I heard that Loyde Roscoe of FastFieros of Dallas has declared bankrupcy, his home is in foreclosure , all parts/cars sold off and his business has closed. I do not wish to start rehashing how this individual stole large amounts of Fiero owners money and cars but this seems like a just conclusion for a person who had so little regard for others.
This whole story is sad as Loyde Roscoe was a highly talented mechanic, programmer and fabricator. Some of the swaps that Loyde did complete were super neat looking and ran well. However, at some point in his life things took a turn. Loyde then decided to play with the devil and as a result he got burned.
I've owned a Fiero since 1997 and I've seen many here come and go but never a person who has caused so much trouble for the Fiero community as this individual has. This guy could have had a vibrant business but decided to throw it all away. Remarkably Loydes website is still operational.
Just for conversation sake does anyone know what really happened?

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

Something to do with running away to china at one point?

Interesting that this post came up today. I was at the North Texas Fiero Club's meeting and that exact subject matter came up because of my current issues with my 86 GT 3800SC swap. I only thing I heard was some comment about a mail order bride...not sure if they were serious or not.

Like so many others....they come and go......I haven't talked to Loyde in over a year so I have no clue myself.....

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: I've owned a Fiero since 1997 and I've seen many here come and go but never a person who has caused so much trouble for the Fiero community as this individual has.

I've owned daily-driven Fieros almost exclusively since 1990, and the name Phil Huff comes to mind... but your mileage may vary.

------------------
Patrick W. Heinske -- LZeitgeist@aol.com

1988 Fiero Formula - Automoda convertible
repainted PPG Ferrari 'Giallo Modena' yellow

Whatever happened, it was the best thing for anyone in the Fiero community. I have never dealt with him nor would I but I have seen the turd piles that he has created for himself over the years. He got what he deserved. You would think that by screwing so many people out of money, he would be set for a long time. I guess the rent-a-wife from China left with everything....including his balls.

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: I heard that Loyde Roscoe of FastFieros of Dallas has declared bankrupcy, his home is in foreclosure , all parts/cars sold off and his business has closed.

I understand the nature of bankruptcy, but are they going to be selling off parts/cars that he doesn't have clear title to in order to pay his debts? It seems to me step 1 should be to return all the property to it's rightful owners.

quote Originally posted by LZeitgeist: I've owned daily-driven Fieros almost exclusively since 1990, and the name Phil Huff comes to mind... but your mileage may vary.

Exactly what I was thinking after I read that sentence. Lloyde is #2, pun intended.

Loyde Roscoe was not alone. The original Fiero scam artist was in fact Phil Huff. This guy ran a business that masquaraded as a club (FOCOA) He eventually closed and absconded with everything and ended up in Arizona. He screwed dozens of Fiero owners in his time. The man was a real scumbag.
What sparked this thread is that just today I spoke to an old friend that Loyde stole $8800 from. It was for a 3800SC swap that was never done. The guy was lucky to get his Formula back and it cost him another $660 to get it. He ended up losing $9400.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 05-26-2012).]

what is crazy is we know where phil is. in a retirement community in AZ. But we dont know where any of the fiero's or his stuff he stil had is..... i heard it is in some ocean crate some where in AZ......

^Was that stuff with Phil before the forum then? No archived threads on it?

(As someone relatively new to Fieros, I thought I'd ask, since we're just conversing about scumbags in here it seems.)

quote Originally posted by 1988holleyformula: ^Was that stuff with Phil before the forum then? No archived threads on it? (As someone relatively new to Fieros, I thought I'd ask, since we're just conversing about scumbags in here it seems.)

Yeah I'm pretty sure all that stuff with Phil went down in the late 90s before this forum existed. I know it had already transpired by the time I joined in 2001. But there was still some talk of it because I was inspired to scrape the FOCOA sticker off my car that the previous owner had applied.

Different Phil

I bought my first Fiero in 99 and shortly after that was introduce to PFF by "Different Phil" when we met at Daytona. I lurked for a while and then joined but later changed my profile name. I remember hearing mutterings about Phil Huff back then. I have seen one or two other scammers arise since then. It is hard to believe how much these guys get away with before they stop.

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[This message has been edited by 1MohrFiero (edited 05-27-2012).]

quote Originally posted by mmeyer86gt/gtp: what is crazy is we know where phil is. in a retirement community in AZ. But we dont know where any of the fiero's or his stuff he stil had is..... i heard it is in some ocean crate some where in AZ......

Because Phil Huff ran a business operating as a club called FOCOA, he also ran a private museum where he had some very rare collectible Fieros, prototypes, dealer banners, promotional items, advertising literature, and loads of factory memorabilia. Phil even conned GM into letting him have the large signs that were outside the factory in Michigan. The sad part is that all of these relics are museum quality and should be displayed for all in the Fiero community to see but greedy Phil probably has it tucked away in a warehouse somewhere where it is probably rotting away and may be lost forever. .

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

It is sad about Loyde as he helped me before he went sour. I defended his stupid A$$ back then as he was starting to screw folks over. It is sad as he was good at what he did when he was on track and very helpful. I feel bad for those who took a hit from him and hope while he is lieing in bed dieing from cancer, possibly bone cancer {so it hurts allot}, he will think long and hard about all of those he screwed over. Yah I'm cruel but I'm straight to the point. Rick B

Huff started out with good intentions, but when his "club" started getting a lot of good press it went to his head. He went on my "list" when I saw that he was editing letters in his mag so that only the pro-Huff stuff made it to print. He would never divulge his member list so no one ever really knew what he was up to. Huff has a son who was in business with him, so he may well have some or all of the good stuff from the store/museum. I did hear from a good friend of Huff's that he packed up all the stuff and moved to AZ but he was in poor health at the time so that does not seem likely.

I met Lloyde at the Fiero Factory annual swap meet when he was there for the first few years. He had a new asian wife with him then and that was 10 years ago. Maybe he trades them in every year or so.

http://www.robertwynn.com/PahrumpMuseum02.htm

quote Originally posted by SuperchargedV6: It is sad about Loyde as he helped me before he went sour. I defended his stupid A$$ back then as he was starting to screw folks over. It is sad as he was good at what he did when he was on track and very helpful. I feel bad for those who took a hit from him and hope while he is lieing in bed dieing from cancer, possibly bone cancer {so it hurts allot}, he will think long and hard about all of those he screwed over. Yah I'm cruel but I'm straight to the point. Rick B

I agree. When everything started going sideways, I too thought no way in hell Loyde would rip people off. Man was I wrong.

I think that I have the "distinction" of being the last engine swap that Loyde ever completed. There were times when I had major doubts that the work would ever be done even though I paid the entire bill in advance. My scheduled six week swap took more than a year and I had to buy several airline tickets due to expiration of the old ones in order to get to Princeton and back home.

The workmanship was superb but I have real questions about the business ethics displayed during my conversion and others that both preceded and followed mine.

Nelson

quote Originally posted by FieroG97J: Huff started out with good intentions, but when his "club" started getting a lot of good press it went to his head. He went on my "list" when I saw that he was editing letters in his mag so that only the pro-Huff stuff made it to print. He would never divulge his member list so no one ever really knew what he was up to. Huff has a son who was in business with him, so he may well have some or all of the good stuff from the store/museum. I did hear from a good friend of Huff's that he packed up all the stuff and moved to AZ but he was in poor health at the time so that does not seem likely. I met Lloyde at the Fiero Factory annual swap meet when he was there for the first few years. He had a new asian wife with him then and that was 10 years ago. Maybe he trades them in every year or so.

Phil Huff's son (by his own admission) posted here several times, I believe. This was after Phil's "exile" to AZ.

quote Originally posted by Old Lar: http://www.robertwynn.com/PahrumpMuseum02.htm

Looks like we can see where Phil put all the money he stole. Rick B

Edited to add a quote on Phil.

On a long term loan from Phil Huff's Family the President Lincoln Collection is the Premier exhibit at the Museum. The Lincoln room holds one of the countries finest Lincoln memorabilia collections ever. This museum is living proof of what a growing community can when they all work together. With the present 5000 sq. ft. building full the plans are to add 4500 more before the current year comes to a end.

[This message has been edited by SuperchargedV6 (edited 05-27-2012).]

quote Originally posted by BV MotorSports: I agree. When everything started going sideways, I too thought no way in hell Loyde would rip people off. Man was I wrong.

I knew loyde was sideways before I joined the forum..... IDK why it took the general population 7 years to come to the same conclusion I did.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I knew loyde was sideways before I joined the forum..... IDK why it took the general population 7 years to come to the same conclusion I did.

Loyde completed many first class swaps in his time and IMO was a highly talented fabricator and programmer. The few swaps that he delivered on ,took months and months to complete though. Maybe deep down inside Loyde was a crook all along and had to gain some credibility by delivering something before the kill.
In the end Loyde scammed many many people, taking their money and not delivering anything. He screwed several Fiero owners on swaps that they all paid for in advance, others for parts and harnesses. The key to identify that he really was a crook was when he always asked for full payment in advance. Stay away from anyone who offers to do a swap and wants to be paid in full in advance. The car is all the security that anyone needs to insure payment.
On small orders and with well known vendors like Mr Mike, Fiero Jon, Rodney, Fiero Store, TXgood, WCF, V8 Archie, I would pay in advance but if I did have a turnkey swap done, the place doing it would not receive a very large depoit until the work is complete and done to my satisfaction. I would consider a deposit but that's it.
The people that Loyde screwed were very trusting people and they ended up getting the shaft. I'd have to agree Scott, that you had this guys number before anyone else did.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

quote Originally posted by SuperchargedV6: Looks like we can see where Phil put all the money he stole. Rick B Edited to add a quote on Phil. On a long term loan from Phil Huff's Family the President Lincoln Collection is the Premier exhibit at the Museum. The Lincoln room holds one of the countries finest Lincoln memorabilia collections ever. This museum is living proof of what a growing community can when they all work together. With the present 5000 sq. ft. building full the plans are to add 4500 more before the current year comes to a end.

The Lincoln collection of materials belonged to Phils parents, which he inherited when they passed. Rather tha store that memoriabilia in a warehouse, it was lent to this museum. So no money you believe he "stole" went to this collection.

some get rich being smucks in business... others end up going bankrupt... sounds like he got what was comming to him..

[This message has been edited by pontiackid86 (edited 05-27-2012).]

http://www.fastfieros.com/

IMHO, Loyde was worse that Phil.

Loyde many times took big chunks fo money out of his customers bank accounts. Phil would be late delivering magazines or not ship items you might have paid for. But he was an equal opportunity kind of guy. He spread it out & screwed a lot of people out of small amounts of money at a time. While Loyde for the most part would take much larger amounts from a fewer people.

Today,on Memorial Day, I have to say that I know of at least 3 of Loyde's customers who as Active duty service men, gave Loyde their cars & up to $15K when they shipped out to serve in Iraq or Afghanistan. After 1 or 2 tours of duty in that Hell, they returned to find that their projects had not been started & the money was gone. They then had no recourse butto then try to work with Loyde hoping that they could get some value for their investment. I'm surprised someone didn't shoot him.

With Phil, as far back as 1989 (before the Internet), Many of us that had been to a few FOCOA conventions realized that this was a business for Phil. more like a Sam's Club than a enthusiasts Car Club. The only time you'd actually have any 1 on 1 contact with other members was talking to them at the converstion or if one happened to live down the street from you. If you'd compare notes, you'd find out that when other members called Phil about the newsletters being behind, they were getting different stories. One person would be told that the newletters were delayed because someone hadn't sent in their tech article yet..... others would be told that their newsletters came back "Did you change your address" etc. I used to buy several parts from Phil, he would ship them UPC COD Cash & I'd pay for them when they arrived. Then a few months later, Phil would bill me for them again.

As far as FOCOA being a business but yet being called a Club, didn't bother me too much. In those days (before the Internet) the only way you would have interaction with other Fiero owners was thru FOCOA (or the other mail in Fiero club run by Matt Gruber) of if you happened to find someone locally that also had a Fiero. there wasn't a local Fiero Club in most locations. So I didn't mind paying a high membership fee or event registration just to keep in touch with other Fiero enthusiasts. So business or not, it was the only game in town.

The last straw for me with Phil was at the 10th anniversary show at the Speedway. Part of that event was a parade lap of IMS. Since I had already been on the track 5 years earlier (at the 5th ann.) we timed our arrival at the Speedway Motel so we'd get there after the parade lap. On arrival, I went into the basement where the registration was. It was real busy with at least 100 people standing around talking with each other about their parade laps. A pretty happy & loud crowd.

I went to the registration/sales table. Gloria was working the table alone & was very busy but was keeping a smile & kind word for everyone.

After getting both cars registered, carrying, my goodie bags, I started talking to people i knew in the room. i ended up way on the other side of the room talking to Phil. He was leaning against the wall looking out over the room & I had my back to the room. Then talking to me in mid sentence, Phil started yelling across the room to Gloria, asking her if she had gotten the extra money from all the people who had opted to run an extra pace lap. She said she had their names written down but hadn't collected all the money yet. He got mad & preceeded to calling her several names I won't repeat. He had her crying & still trying to work. Yelling at her across the room about money is bad enough but calling her names & cussing her out was too much.

After he was done with all of this, he looked back to me & started to continue our conversation right where he had left off......... I said, Phil, what you just did was wrong, I'll never speak to you again. I dropped my goodie baga on his shoes & left. I went out to our cars & we got in them & went home.

After that he spent the rest of his time trashing me telling people I was out of business, owed him money etc.

But as it turns out, once people started camparing notes about him on the Internet, he's the one who went out of business.

So that's my memory of Phil.

Archie

[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 05-27-2012).]

Two of the four photos on the current web site front page are my car. That swap was completed a number of years ago but the workmanship was excellent. A perfect example of a talented person who headed in an incorrect direction.

Nelson

quote Originally posted by fieroparts.com: http://www.fastfieros.com/

quote Originally posted by Archie: IMHO, Loyde was worse that Phil. Loyde many times took big chunks fo money out of his customers bank accounts. Phil would be late delivering magazines or not ship items you might have paid for. But he was an equal opportunity kind of guy. He spread it out & screwed a lot of people out of small amounts of money at a time. While Loyde for the most part would take much larger amounts from a fewer people. Today,on Memorial Day, I have to say that I know of at least 3 of Loyde's customers who as Active duty service men, gave Loyde their cars & up to $15K when they shipped out to serve in Iraq or Afghanistan. After 1 or 2 tours of duty in that Hell, they returned to find that their projects had not been started & the money was gone. They then had no recourse butto then try to work with Loyde hoping that they could get some value for their investment. I'm surprised someone didn't shoot him. With Phil, as far back as 1989 (before the Internet), Many of us that had been to a few FOCOA conventions realized that this was a business for Phil. more like a Sam's Club than a enthusiasts Car Club. The only time you'd actually have any 1 on 1 contact with other members was talking to them at the converstion or if one happened to live down the street from you. If you'd compare notes, you'd find out that when other members called Phil about the newsletters being behind, they were getting different stories. One person would be told that the newletters were delayed because someone hadn't sent in their tech article yet..... others would be told that their newsletters came back "Did you change your address" etc. I used to buy several parts from Phil, he would ship them UPC COD Cash & I'd pay for them when they arrived. Then a few months later, Phil would bill me for them again. As far as FOCOA being a business but yet being called a Club, didn't bother me too much. In those days (before the Internet) the only way you would have interaction with other Fiero owners was thru FOCOA (or the other mail in Fiero club run by Matt Gruber) of if you happened to find someone locally that also had a Fiero. there wasn't a local Fiero Club in most locations. So I didn't mind paying a high membership fee or event registration just to keep in touch with other Fiero enthusiasts. So business or not, it was the only game in town. The last straw for me with Phil was at the 10th anniversary show at the Speedway. Part of that event was a parade lap of IMS. Since I had already been on the track 5 years earlier (at the 5th ann.) we timed our arrival at the Speedway Motel so we'd get there after the parade lap. On arrival, I went into the basement where the registration was. It was real busy with at least 100 people standing around talking with each other about their parade laps. A pretty happy & loud crowd. I went to the registration/sales table. Gloria was working the table alone & was very busy but was keeping a smile & kind word for everyone. After getting both cars registered, carrying, my goodie bags, I started talking to people i knew in the room. i ended up way on the other side of the room talking to Phil. He was leaning against the wall looking out over the room & I had my back to the room. Then talking to me in mid sentence, Phil started yelling across the room to Gloria, asking her if she had gotten the extra money from all the people who had opted to run an extra pace lap. She said she had their names written down but hadn't collected all the money yet. He got mad & preceeded to calling her several names I won't repeat. He had her crying & still trying to work. Yelling at her across the room about money is bad enough but calling her names & cussing her out was too much. After he was done with all of this, he looked back to me & started to continue our conversation right where he had left off......... I said, Phil, what you just did was wrong, I'll never speak to you again. I dropped my goodie baga on his shoes & left. I went out to our cars & we got in them & went home. After that he spent the rest of his time trashing me telling people I was out of business, owed him money etc. But as it turns out, once people started camparing notes about him on the Internet, he's the one who went out of business. So that's my memory of Phil. Archie

You can also thank Phil Huff for becoming a sales agent for Gary Zumalts V8 kits and for closely affiliating himself with a certain East Coast Fiero Club who mission was a smear campaign to hurt your business. I was new to Fieros at the time and "lucky for me", it was the first Fiero club that I joined. All I ever heard were negative things about Archie and his V8 kits coupled with some personal attacks on your character that I won't mention here. Sadly I got sucked into believing some of this rubbish but you went on to do your thing and today Zumalt is gone, the Tri-State Fiero Club shut its doors and your business continues as the prime supplier of V8 kits, kit cars and custom Fieros, some of which are outstanding examples of automotive art. Justice does eventually prevail.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

This is why for my money it is Archie and Whodeanie. I know there are some other bubbas out there that will do us right but I haven't went wrong with those two.

It was also told to me years ago that Phill Huff conned Fred Scaduto, creator of the original Automoda convertible conversion tops, into moving Fred's Automoda-making equipment to Phil's shop space in California. Phil then locked the doors and went on vacation for a few weeks, leaving Fred without a way to make an income, so he was forced to borrow money from relatives and move back to Italy(?). Phil then attempted to make the Automoda tops himself, failing miserably, and leaving the approximate total made at about 35 kits.

If I'm remembering any of this incorrectly, please feel free to chime in with known facts...

------------------
Patrick W. Heinske -- LZeitgeist@aol.com

1988 Fiero Formula - Automoda convertible
repainted PPG Ferrari 'Giallo Modena' yellow

I'm glad I "rescued" my car from Loyde back in Dec 2010. More than happy to take about $8500 from me before I sent him my car in July 2007 for what he promised was only going to be a few months. The only way I got my car back was with the involvement of the sheriff's office. Happy to help coordinate his next home at TDC (Texas Department of Corrections).

I'm just sorry so many others were not able to get their cars back.

[This message has been edited by Charlie64 (edited 05-28-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Charlie64: I'm glad I "rescued" my car from Loyde back in Dec 2010. More than happy to take about $8500 from me before I sent him my car in July 2007 for what he promised was only going to be a few months. The only way I got my car back was with the involvement of the sheriff's office. Happy to help coordinate his next home at TDC (Texas Department of Corrections). I'm just sorry so many others were not able to get their cars back.

He has such a professional working environment:

quote Originally posted by Charlie64: I'm glad I "rescued" my car from Loyde back in Dec 2010. More than happy to take about $8500 from me before I sent him my car in July 2007 for what he promised was only going to be a few months. The only way I got my car back was with the involvement of the sheriff's office. Happy to help coordinate his next home at TDC (Texas Department of Corrections). I'm just sorry so many others were not able to get their cars back.

? if he did take this much money and more, why is he not in jail? This is theft!

quote Originally posted by Phil: Different Phil

Haa I have a poor memory but I remember you used to post "Different Phil" alot more back then. (I lurked for a few years before joining).

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Loyde completed many first class swaps in his time and IMO was a highly talented fabricator and programmer. The few swaps that he delivered on ,took months and months to complete though. Maybe deep down inside Loyde was a crook all along and had to gain some credibility by delivering something before the kill. In the end Loyde scammed many many people, taking their money and not delivering anything. He screwed several Fiero owners on swaps that they all paid for in advance, others for parts and harnesses. The key to identify that he really was a crook was when he always asked for full payment in advance. Stay away from anyone who offers to do a swap and wants to be paid in full in advance. The car is all the security that anyone needs to insure payment. On small orders and with well known vendors like Mr Mike, Fiero Jon, Rodney, Fiero Store, TXgood, WCF, V8 Archie, I would pay in advance but if I did have a turnkey swap done, the place doing it would not receive a very large depoit until the work is complete and done to my satisfaction. I would consider a deposit but that's it. The people that Loyde screwed were very trusting people and they ended up getting the shaft. I'd have to agree Scott, that you had this guys number before anyone else did.

The biggest red lights came after I was able to build my first few 3800 cars back in 08... The fact that a dumb kid like me ended up engineering circles around this "master" was a joke if you ask me. while some here did not apprciate my "attacks" on him it was really just more for a comparison.

I look around now and I notice that NOTHING he did for the 3800 community was worth enough to last passed his reign... none of his methods or tricks are even used any more, which is proof the way he did things was just a mess....

I have always said and will always say he was "looksfastfieros" not "fastfieros".... You paid 8000 for painted engine parts to get a "broken in some way" pile of 3800 swap car, if you actually got one.

I always wondered why someone would give thousands of dollars to someone before they started, let alone finished any work? Maybe I am just old, but I always wait til the job is finished before collecting payment. The same applies if I am the customer. Show me a finished product, and I will pay you. Is that too simple?
This guy seems like a turd in general. I doubt the law would be involved if I was taken for cash. Maybe AFTERWARDS, but I would not be on the good end the cuffs then.

[This message has been edited by SuperchargedV6 (edited 05-29-2012).]