Wow... a little surprised at the replies here. 2 questions were asked, 2 were answered with facts:
quote
a) Why would a local automotive products store sell a product that is illegal to have on your car?
Retail Stores can sell pretty much any product, even if it is not legal for you to use on the street. Most of these products even note somewhere in fine print "for off road use only" - indicating that it might be good for car shows, or other non-DOT regulated events.
quote
b) Why would the cop refuse to re-check the claim he's making when it would take 10 seconds and 20 ft. walking distance to do so?
Irregardless of the officer's statement of "25 ft" - the law states 100ft for visibility, and also clearly states that the cover is illegal. The law is the final word, not the officer's statement. Ignorance or lack of awareness of a law is not justification for breaking the law.
What exactly is still in question here?
I've been busted for plate covers. I've been busted for illegal colored lights (green in the PONTIAC in back). I've been nailed for speeding - when I wasn't aware of the limit on that street. We all take our licks... sometimes we fix the problem (I removed my covers), sometimes we just pay the fine and keep on going (still have my green PONTIAC lights).
If you read the law as quoted above, it clearly states 100 feet is the requirement, not 25 feet.
Also, digital or film camera makes no difference. What does matter, is zoom. You would need to ensure that what the camera sees, is exactly what someone with 20/20 vision standing in the exact same spot, will see. An 18mm, 20mm, or 24mm prime lens would probably be best.
There is a difference between digital and film in a court of law. Everyone knows that digital can be manipulated. I had an investigator doing photos for an accident I was involved in and she said that she was required to use film instead of digital. I suppose that you might be able to get away with a digital photo depending on the court and the seriousness of the offense.
Most states it is illegal to have a licence plate cover... sometimes its because they cant be seen by traffic camera's and such.. look on the packaging it came with.. it should say for off road use only check local and state laws for on road use..
The reason they get their panties in a bunch is that all license plates are highly reflective and many radar types require a vertical reflective surface for the pulse to hit and return unobstructed, so that it can calculate an accurate speed.
The radar waves aren't influenced by a plastic cover. The radar makes far better use of the metal front bumper bar (which is underneath a plastic bumper cover) than it does of the license plate. The fact is, that clear plastic license covers all degrade over time with scratches, cloudiness from condensation and craze or yellow with the sun's UV rays. Because it's a gradual process of deterioration, it's a lot easier and makes more sense to ban them altogether than to try to develop and enforce some arbitrary scale of relative obscurity, especially since there is no practical reason to have covers in the first place.
IP: Logged
02:09 PM
yellowstone Member
Posts: 9299 From: Düsseldorf/Germany Registered: Jun 2003
I just took the cover off (would have never used it if I had known it may be illegal) and will give the ticket to an ambulance chaser to get it dismissed...
IP: Logged
02:49 PM
IwannaIRM Member
Posts: 1607 From: Hot, hot Houston, TX Registered: Jul 2001
Wouldn't this just be a fix-it ticket? Take your car down to the police station showing the cover removed and have them rectify it. I got a ticket for having my plate in the window, tried telling the cop they no longer made the factory holder but he didn't care. Gave me 72 hours to fix it and said he would be by to make sure it was taken care of. Sure enough three days later he knocked on the front door, thanked me for displaying my plate correctly and dismissed the ticket.
I know my situation was a bit different but at this point it's worth a try so you don't pay a fine.
IP: Logged
03:38 PM
E.Furgal Member
Posts: 11708 From: LAND OF CONFUSION Registered: Mar 2012
Where am I going to find a camera with film? Last time I had one was in the 90's...
you are going to find that states and city/towns have new gear that reads every plate that it see's.. for unpayed tickets, warrants, etc.. I'm willing to bet that camera system could not read your plate.. 2) some of those plate cover allow you to read the plate straight on.. take a photo at an angle or at a downward view like an airplane or toll booth camera would and it "shockingly" is unreadable.. your may not do either,, doesn't matter.. there is no reason to cover the plate.. I've had them.. I've taken them off on side of the road and handed it to the trooper.. the fact that every one made has the "off road use only" on the package doesn't help your cause.. I looked this morning.. all 10 different types sold here.. all have the "off road only" on the package.. good luck..
------------------ Is there anybody listening? Is there anyone that sees what's going on? Read between the lines, criticize the words they're selling. Think for yourself and feel the walls become sand beneath your feet
I think in Florida you cant have anything cover any part of the plate, even the dealer frames can get you a ticket if it blocks anything on the tag. Good luck I hope you can get it taken care of.
There is a difference between digital and film in a court of law. Everyone knows that digital can be manipulated. I had an investigator doing photos for an accident I was involved in and she said that she was required to use film instead of digital. I suppose that you might be able to get away with a digital photo depending on the court and the seriousness of the offense.
You need hard copies. It's just as easy to manipulate film and print a new copy as well. Most people aren't going to waste the time trying to do it right though, as they don't have the skills, and it will probably cost them more than the ticket they're trying to get out of anyway.
IP: Logged
05:09 PM
hyperv6 Member
Posts: 6091 From: Clinton, OH, USA Registered: Mar 2003
It is simple on anything you put on your car. You as the owner has to take responsibility to know the local laws and deal with what could happen.
We sell many things where I work that are legal and illegal around the world. We note that you should check local laws but we still get people calling complaining that they got a ticket. This is where we point out the disclaimer and that the installer has to accpet the responsibility of their actions.
As for the cop he sounds like he was sending as signal for some reason. He may have had a Barney Fife issue but he also may have had issues with people in the area you were in. While a few cops are creeps there are a lot of average citizens that are just as much a creeps too.
IP: Logged
05:17 PM
PFF
System Bot
ltlfrari Member
Posts: 5356 From: Wake Forest,NC,USA Registered: Jan 2002
Around here those covers are illegal, as are surrounds that cover the state name but that does not stop too many people from having them. I've seen loads here that I could not read from two feet away, covered in that much crap or just glazed over. Mind you around here the cops don't seem to care too much about no turn signals, not stopping at at a stop sign, speeding (providing you are not 'abusing' the limit) etc so I doubt a plate cover is even on their radar unless they really want to pull you over for something.
Now troopers on the other hand are on a mission to spoil your day although I will say that the ones I have dealt with have been very courteous (and not all interactions were giving me ticket!).
I guess it's not so much the getting a ticket for something that rankles most people, but the fact that ten seconds after the cop has left you'll see a dozen other drivers doing exactly what just got you a ticket and not a cop in sight. Just seems so totally unfair!
What is interesting is that the cop clearly didn't know the law either (visible from 25" away...).
Like I said he was either making a point to run you off or was just a Barney Fife. I took my Chevelle SS to a cruise in one night and the cops were everywhere. I stopped to ask a Cycle cop what was going on. He told me to pull over and read off a list of infractions like obstructed vision with my injector scoop on my Tunnel Ram and a couple of other issues. After he called in my licenses he saw I was from 50 miles away, He asked why I was there and I said we had heard Hot Rod Magazine was there and came up to see what was going on. He then told me that they had a lof of racing going on and a accident and were tired of all the trouble so they were just running everyone off. So in the end there was a lot more going on than I ever knew and once I did learn this I understood.
He should not have given you a ticket but I suspect there was more going on than you even know here. I just don't think he targeted you just because he hates yellow Fiero's.
IP: Logged
06:58 AM
johnyrottin Member
Posts: 5487 From: Northwest Florida Registered: Oct 2007
Well as I cop I can tell you there are no quotas, and I really hate whoever started that rumor, because I hear it all the time. I can also tell you that every single person says that you (the cop) are wrong whenever you pull them over, or arrest them. So it would seem that cops only arrest innocent people. This is why the person who pulled you over wouldn’t go back 25’ to look at your plate. One, he is tired of everyone telling him he is wrong when he knows what he saw, two, he knows that he can’t convince you that he can’t read your plant from 25’ and knows that you probably have your plate memorized and so nothing can be proven by looking, three, safety. Everything an officer does comes down to safety. While all of us here on the forum know you wouldn’t wait for the cop to walk back 25’ then jump in your car and drive off or grab your gun and blast this guy, but he doesn’t know that.
I believe someone else mentioned how stores sell things that are for “off road use only”. This license plate cover is probably one of those things. I actually got pulled over once myself for having a blue light on inside my car. It wasn’t bright and it didn’t flash, but it was visible from the outside of the car. I bought that light at a local place, however blue lights are reserved for rescue vehicles, and my Fiero is not my patrol car.
It’s hard to be polite to everyone you come in contact with when you are constantly threated with being hit by cars zooming by at 70mph because no one knows how to change lanes, or people who hate the government and want to kill all police (which there is a big clan of these people in Missouri), or criminals who will do whatever it takes to not go to jail, or a good person who just panics, and when 99% of the people you come in contact with hate you for only trying to keep everyone safe and just wants you to go away, but when something happens to them they complain that you weren't there.
I agree that you should pull out a 25’ tape measure and take a picture and take that to court. You shouldn’t need a lawyer for that, or better yet, just stop by the PA’s office with the picture. PS, make sure you don't use a digital camera. If you can read your plate from that far back, your ticket should be gone without a problem. Good luck.
I think that there is some exaggeration in this one. First, you do arrest only innocent people. Remember, we are innocent until "proven" guilty here in America. I also know that quotas are instigated by some law enforcement agencies. There have been many cases of such activity. Here is one but 30 seconds of research revealed more than 100.
I am very respectful of police officers and realize the dangers you are placed in on the side of the road. I always pull over to the extreme opposite lane and, if that is not an option, I slow down to walking speed to around them. I have a great deal of respect for what you do and all of you who do it. However, as is in any profession, there are those who abuse it and give teh profession a bad name. Absolutes such as "none, never, all, etc." are usually easily debunked. No disrespect meant in this post.
IP: Logged
07:40 AM
Jun 8th, 2012
Spoon Member
Posts: 3762 From: Sadsburyville, PA. 19369 / USA Registered: May 2004
I have a Pennsylvania specialty plate on my Fiero and at 50 ft (maybe less) it can hardly be read. Had it on my Trans Am previously. Not sure what the legal viewing distance is for PA but this plate was not liked by the police due to the fact that you have to get very very close to make it out.
It wasn't long before it was discontinued. If you had one you could keep it on your car. Seems like the commonwealth shot themselves in the foot, again.
Check the link. Imagine soft white lettering on that plate.
------------------ "Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut
[This message has been edited by Spoon (edited 06-08-2012).]
IP: Logged
11:38 PM
Jun 9th, 2012
css9450 Member
Posts: 5491 From: Glen Ellyn, Illinois, USA Registered: Nov 2002
I have a Pennsylvania specialty plate on my Fiero and at 50 ft (maybe less) it can hardly be read. Had it on my Trans Am previously. Not sure what the legal viewing distance is for PA but this plate was not liked by the police due to the fact that you have to get very very close to make it out.
LOL That's as bad as the Wisconsin Sesquicentennial plate; it had red letters on a low-contrast background but the problem is, they were issues back in 1998 and evidently many are still in use. The red letters are usually faded to the point that they're now invisible. The standing joke around here is anyone with those plates can come and use the Illinois Tollway system for free because the cameras on the automated toll lanes will never catch them.
IP: Logged
07:50 AM
E.Furgal Member
Posts: 11708 From: LAND OF CONFUSION Registered: Mar 2012
LOL That's as bad as the Wisconsin Sesquicentennial plate; it had red letters on a low-contrast background but the problem is, they were issues back in 1998 and evidently many are still in use. The red letters are usually faded to the point that they're now invisible. The standing joke around here is anyone with those plates can come and use the Illinois Tollway system for free because the cameras on the automated toll lanes will never catch them.
And they can make you turn in a plate that is faded like that.. if the city wants money.. they can write improper view of plate tickets for that.. and if you go to the rmv and replace it before the court date. it gets tossed.. the harder up city/towns/states get the more you'll get popped for a faded plate.. At lease here 9 out of the 10 plates "faded" are from some lite sanding/buffing , and if you get pulled over.. they take the plates on the spot, ticket you and tow the vehicle.. the older "green" plates they are weeding out.. when I bought a new to me car. the r.m.v. made me bring in the plates.. mine where fine. if it was faded "wink wink" or had the paint some add that screws with the cameras photos the take them.. soon they'll just force you to replace them as they are single plates.(rear only)
IP: Logged
08:08 AM
Spoon Member
Posts: 3762 From: Sadsburyville, PA. 19369 / USA Registered: May 2004
------------------ "Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut
[This message has been edited by Spoon (edited 06-09-2012).]
IP: Logged
09:33 AM
Jun 21st, 2012
yellowstone Member
Posts: 9299 From: Düsseldorf/Germany Registered: Jun 2003
Wow, I just looked that up. The Miami-Date Clerk actually sells this info on their website through "premier accounts".
I think that that's screwed up.
Just read your local paper... you can usually find a section that states what the local cops were called to and where. It's in our town paper... states things like "1:34AM Responded to Domestic Violence call at 123 Abusive Rd..." Gotta love small towns.
