quote Originally posted by NightMare Cruiser: I'll put up $10 for your ticket to West Coast! These unreliable vendors need to be taught a lesson!

I'll throw in $10.

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: Since I will have to source my own axles because WCF couldn't get a set made. I asked Chris what intermediate axle (jackshaft) they set their engine mount up for so that I can buy one. Chris told me a 2006 G6 with automatic transmission. Correct me if I am wrong, but the automatic doesn't use a jackshaft due to the transmission being the 4T65-e.

Perhaps he meant the 3.6 + 6-speed auto cars, which have the 6t75, which do use a half-shaft I believe, as the 6t[78]5 transmissions don't have the long snout of the older transverse automatics.

Here is a copy of the emails sent between myself, Charles, and WCF.

> On 6/25/2012 11:10 AM, bmwguru@optonline.net wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I am trying to find the current timeframe for the F40 six
> speed kit I
> > had ordered, so I can pass along the news to the owner of the Fiero.
> > Thanks,
> > Dave McClung
> > Autobahn Automotive
> > 40 Chestnut St.
> > Lakewood, NJ 08701
> > 732-363-5552
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: chris west
Date: Monday, June 25, 2012 4:00 pm
Subject: Re: order status of F40 kit
To: bmwguru@optonline.net

> We are sending the brackets out today. the clutch we are working
> on will
> be ready soon


On 6/26/2012 7:37 AM, bmwguru@optonline.net wrote:

Thanks,
Just so we are on the same page, we will be receiving the complete kit which consists of:

Flywheel
Twin disc clutch
Axles
Shift cables
Cable bracket
Trans mounts and brackets
Engine mount and bracket
Axle bearing carrier mount Mounting bolts

Dave

---------------------------------------------------------
(Friday June 29, 2012)
Chris,


Perhaps you can help me understand why this taking so long. Dave ordered this kit for me on May 3rd. He was told it would be completed and shipped in three weeks. Here we are at the two month mark and all he has received was the brackets...and that was received today. Where is the rest of the kit? You were more than happy to charge for this kit up front and have yet to provide it. I've already missed Carlisle because the parts ordered from you have not been delivered. We have been as patient as we can, but that patience has now run out!


Charles Viney
---------------------------------------------------------------
(from WCF to Charles on same day)

I'm sorry about the delay as you have the mounts and are receiving the shift hardware The clutch and flywheel is the sticker. With the horse power you are running we need a special clutch. after many days working with Mc Leoud we determined they can't help. We have now have a clutch that will hold up to 400Ft lb of torquq and is proven. it is in the works and should have shortly. We haven't had a high hp f40 setup with a street able /drivable clutch. we normally use a tilton clutch and I know you would not like the drive-ability. Again we are sorry for the delay and we will get it out as soon as possible. call us at 661 822 8111 if you have further questions.

---------------------------------------------
(from WCF to me on same day)

We tested the speck clutch with our clutch torque gauge and we got only 295 FTlb of torque with their stage 3

And there flywheel is extremely heavy. My note: The Spec flywheel is aluminum and weighs around 10lbs...give or take

We can use the twin disc but you won't like the drive ability. We thought we can make a street twin but we are having a fitment problem.

The input shaft is not long enough. we can make the twin disc work but it would be very costly. We have found a pressure plate and disc that is supposed to hold 450 hp ( Porsche ) We will test when we get the assembly. We are trying to keep the coat in the 1000.00 range. with out having the parts specially made.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(this was sent on Friday, July 13th)

Chris,

I ordered the F40 kit from you on 5/3/12. You had billed my credit card on 5/15/12 in the amount of $3295.00
You said the price of the kit was $2795 and an additional $500 for the twin disc clutch.
You also said it would take approx 3 weeks to get the parts together and we should have everything in our hands by the third week of June.
It is my understanding that you still do not have a clutch/flywheel option for us nor axles. After speaking with Charles, we decided that we would like to source our own clutch/flywheel and axles at this time. Charles would like to be able to drive his car sometime this summer.
I do like your mounts and brackets and shifter cable setup, and I would like to purchase another set of the transmission brackets and shifter cables and brackets.
Would you refund the remaining amount to my credit card at this time and ship the second set of brackets to me?

According to my math, it should be 3295. minus $850 (the $335 you charged me for the transmission brackets), $275 for the shift cables, and $50 for the cable bracket, $65 for the engine mount and $125 for the mount bracket.

I would like to order a second set of just your transmission brackets and mounts $335, shift cables $275, and bracket $50 which is $660 plus shipping. I would feel better about buying your set rather than copying it here in the shop. That is not the way I believe business should be done.

That would bring the refund to $1785 (and deduct shipping for the next set).

Advise me once you get this email.

Dave
Autobahn Automotive
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 7/14/2012 1:02 PM, bmwguru@optonline.net wrote:

Chris,

I am emailing you again because you have not responed to my past two emails.

I want a status of what it is that you are doing. I am a businessman like yourself, and I would not keep my customers in the dark or use them as their guinea pigs. You told me that you sold the F40 kits before and it would be a three week turnaround. Charles has paid/registered for car shows and those have already passed. From what I understand, you are stuck on the axles and the clutch. I told you that I have used Spec's clutch and flywheel on a turbo 3800 without issues. I like their aluminum flywheel to help reduce the weight on the crankshaft. If you can't find a clutch that you feel is streetable and will hold the torque and have it ready for shipping yesterday, then we will go with Spec. We already have had the F40 cyro treated and a LSD installed and cannot install it due to your delay.

As for the axles, there are numerous driveshaft shops that can fabricate custom axles and have them in my hands within 10 days. What is the delay?

This wouldn't have become an issue if we were told upfront that this would be a long process. I would have just purchased your mounts and sourced the other needed parts myself. I have used V8 Archie's axles on the last F40 kit I had done and made a custom jackshaft mount for it. His innner CV joint on the passenger side interfered with the oil filter, so I modified the oil filter neck to have adequate clearance. If this is your issue, I have a proven solution and we are out of time to have this car built within the promised timeframe. This is delaying me, my shop and my other customers that are waiting in line for their cars to be completed.

Dave
Autobahn Automotive
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(wcf response)

We should have the flywheel and clutch by Friday this week
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Tuesday July 24th)

Chris,

Did the flywheel and clutch arrive and did you ship it to me yet? I need these parts by no later than this Friday to keep to my schedule.

Dave
Autobahn Automotive
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After that is was phone calls back and forth with a promised clutch and flywheel that would be overnighted and in my hands by Friday. On Friday, I called to cancel the order again.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(this was my final email sent on Friday, August 3rd)
Chris,

It has been more than a week since you said you would refund the money to my credit card. I demand proof of a refund by the end of the day today, ie: scan of credit card refund slip. If the refund is not completed today, I will take further action that will cost you more money. If you already refunded the amount, I would like a detailed receipt regarding the refund.

You have charged my credit card:
$3295.00 for the F40 complete kit with added $500 for the special clutch.
$124.11 for shipping the mounts and brackets.
$37.88 for shipping the cables and cable bracket.

The shipping costs are fine. I feel I should be receiving $2445.00 in refund.
You charged me in the past $150 and $185 for the transmission mounts. Your website shows the engine mount is $65 and bracket is $125. The shift cables are $275 and bracket is $50. That totals $850.

As for your engine mount bracket. You told me that the F40 jackshaft mount was designed for a 2006 G6 automatic transmission jackshaft (intermediate axle). I would like to purchase the correct jackshaft for Charles and the G6 automatic transmission does NOT use a jackshaft. Please inform me of what you set that bracket up for.

Dave
Autobahn Automotive
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry if the thread is kind of jumbled. I just went through all my emails and I think I got them all. Charles was copied on every single email I sent to them.

quote Originally posted by IMSA GT: The way to rectify all of this is very simple but for some reason vendors shy away from simply being honest. A disclaimer on the main page of his website stating that "All parts are made to order and are not currently in stock with up to a 4 month waiting period." Thats what I do when I make carbon fiber parts for people. I warn them that it may take me up to a year to make the part, I take NO money up front, and I also inform them that my real job takes up 99% of my time. I can only work on a part in my VERY limited free time. It seems to have worked out fine for me all these years. Yes, it does bring a little frustration on the part of the customer but it is better than taking their money, lying, and giving them some shitty part 6 months to a year later.

It would have been a different story if he was up front about not having this kit and that it was under development. Instead he chose to lie to us and claim he had already sold several of these kits. It wasn't until the end of June when both Dave and I started to pressure him about the missed delivery dates that he started to admit how much he actually didn't have. My concern was that he would simply throw together a substandard kit to "shut us up". After having dealt with Loyde before and the measures I had to take to get my car back my tollerance for BS went to ZERO. For Chris to promise Dave a 3 week production to shipping time when he placed the order on May 3rd to "I don't have the clutch yet or the axles" when I questioned him before July 4th tells me he hadn't done anything and was stalling for time. Went thru that kind of BS with Loyde. Giving Chris essentially an additional month to "resolve his claimed clutch issues" was a complete waste since on the day of promised delivery (July 27th) he still didn't have have the clutch or the axles. With Loyde it started with taking people's money for wiring harnesses and never delivering. I don't know what the issue is at WCF and I no longer care, but it looks as though they are following the "Loyde" business model. We lost 3 months waiting for Chris for something he knew he didn't have (and apparently never did) and didn't have the ability to produce then continue to "stall" us for why he didn't have the kit ready, but was more than happy to charge for everything up front on May 4th.

Just a reminder for everyone, Charlie knows all too well how Loyde did things. How many years did he have your car Charlie? Sorry this is happening man, I really am. With the issues Dave ran across with SPEC during my build, he'll be much more aware with yours and it should go right. The axle issue may be another story since the engine layout seems to be a challenge for this transmission. Hopefully we'll both be ready to go and can meet up in NJ to get our cars at the same time. I'll buy you guys lunch.

Michael

P.S. As I've stated before, I've only really ordered one thing through WCF and it came quickly enough.It was their 12" brake upgrade kit, and from the speed I'm sure they had it in stock. I hope they don't go full Loyde on us, there are so few vendors out there.

you're probably right about it being in stock...

Dave, what's the info in that SPEC kit? is it an actual swap kit or is it just something you guys pieced together custom? I noticed the separate friction plate on the flywheel... I know the factory 3900 flywheel is built the same.
is this something we could contact them and say I'd like to order this kit, and how much...?
I'm planning to go F40 in my Convertible when I can afford it, so I'm just curious...
I'm still tempted to just order the complete kit from Archie (in spite of the price) and deal with the oil filter issue when it gets here, but being 3800, I know there's pieces he doesn't carry, like the clutch/flywheel...

------------------
1986 Fiero SE 2.8 Auto - Blackie
1985 Fiero GT 2.8 4-spd - Goldie II - To be driveable this season
1985 Fiero SE Targa - 3.8SC - long term project
1987 Cavalier Z24 2.8 5-spd - daily beaten driver
1993 Bonneville SSEi - 3800SC donor for 85 Targa

I ordered an automatic shift linkage kit for the 3800 swap I had done along with the upper dogbone and mount. I was immediatley scared after speaking with Chris..lol. Thought I was talking to a child and he was just swearing during our conversation dropping the F bomb. I thought that was unprofessional. Told me I would have everything in two weeks including the 4 day ship. I called 3 weeks later and he said it was sitting on a work bench and needed one more thing for my order. I told them I wanted a tracking number when it was shipped so I can follow the order while in transit to me. He acted like that was a huge burden on them. Order had shipped and I called for the tracking # which he gave me. Order shows up and I am missing half the order. Never got the trans linkage parts for my shifter. ( I knew something would most likley go wrong from the first conversation with him ) I called them up and spoke with the owner I believe and described what was in my box and what the bill of lading say and what I had paid for. Yes I am missing half my order. He said he would get it out in the mail. It did finally show up. Total time was like 8 weeks when I was told 2 weeks. I was not happy with there shift linkage product at all and I will not deal with them again.

Now about that 4 month waiting period on WCF's website. Most credit card companies only allow you to do a reversal up to 90 days. Luckily, I got my chargeback done on the 89th day.

Secondly, I have been ordering parts from WCF for years. Every time I order a part, Chris would give me that attitiude and ask "why are you ordering just that? What about buying my mounts? No, that idea of your's will never work."

I ordered a set of rear 88 12" brackets and not the front because I was planning on running 14" C5 brakes. Chris said it was impossible to make it work and it would be very unbalanced. I told him that we already made a working set and it stops just fine.

I also asked Chris if he would make a Corvette upgrade kit for the 84-87 Fieros. He said there would be no interest and it would be too complicated to make work. So, I made my kit based on Fiero Addiction's design (he is no longer producing them).

The Spec kit is a custom aluminum flywheel, stage 3+ clutch and throwout bearing shim. The shim is kind of noisy at times, but it works. I believe the combo is in the $900 range.

The oil filter issue isn't that bad to deal with. We tweaked our housing nek with heat to move it the slight bit. Then we tested it for flow and leakage. A custom oil filter relocation unit would work. I tried one, but the lines were too close to the axle. If they were 1/2 higher, it would have been perfect.

I've taked to Chris on the phone and he is very unprofessional. Half the time, you'd swear he was drunk, but I cannot confirm that.

Dave

quote Originally posted by 85red2m6: you're probably right about it being in stock... Dave, what's the info in that SPEC kit? is it an actual swap kit or is it just something you guys pieced together custom? I noticed the separate friction plate on the flywheel... I know the factory 3900 flywheel is built the same. is this something we could contact them and say I'd like to order this kit, and how much...? I'm planning to go F40 in my Convertible when I can afford it, so I'm just curious... I'm still tempted to just order the complete kit from Archie (in spite of the price) and deal with the oil filter issue when it gets here, but being 3800, I know there's pieces he doesn't carry, like the clutch/flywheel...

Actually the F/W pictured above is an Aluminum F/W with a Steel insert for the friction surface. That insert is bolted or Rivited to the Aluminum F/W. The OEM F/W for the 3900 is a Dual Mass F/W. Google it & you'll see the difference.

The "in spite of the price" deal is something most people still don't understand. It takes a lot more than a F/W & a Clutch to make the 6 speed work in the Fiero applications. No matter who you get the parts from, you will still need Transmission mounts, Shift cables, Shift cable mounting bracket, custom made axle shafts (those shafts will also have to use the inboard Tri-pots from the G6 application & be the correct length), You'll also need, The Intermediate shaft, A Bearing mount to support the end of the Intermediate shaft, Hyd. lines adapters & a modified shifter.

There's a lot more to making a G6 6 speed work in a Fiero than bolting the engine to the transmission.

AS far as a F/W for the 6 cylinder, I don't do 6 cylinder swaps so I don't do 6 cylinder F/W's. However, all of my 6 speed kits are designed to use the same F/W that you would be needing for whatever engine you are installing.

For example, if you were installing a 3800sc into any stick shift application, you would need to buy a stick shift F/W for that 3800sc. Why should I buy a F/W from SPEC & mark it up & resell it to you when you can just buy one directly from SPEC?

Another example: If you were installing a 6 speed into a 2.8 Fiero stick shift car, my kits are designed to use the stock 2.8 F/W. Why should you have to buy a F/W for a 2.8 when you don't need it to make my kit work?

I have about 2300 V-8 customers driving their stick shift V-8 cars right now. I do make custom flywheels for those V-8 kits. When I designed my 6 speed kits, I designed them so that my customers that already have V-8's in their cars don't have to buy another F/W from me when they swap to a 6 speed.

Thanks

Archie

[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 08-06-2012).]

First off. I thank everyone who is a vender here in the Fiero World. Without you guys, these cars would just be regular stock beater cars. Chris is a good friend of mine. I know first hand that he works his ass of in the shop for these Fieros. He has lots of swaps running around in Cali. Im sorry to hear the situation between WCF and BMWGURU. You are both good at what you do and I appreciate the products you guys put out. Im not jumping in this post about the situation. Just wanted to show some respect to the both of you and to show this pick of a 3800sc/F40 in San Diego done by WCF. Hope it works out well for the both of you.

Archie,

I appreciate the advice. I measured the stack height and the input shaft distance on both of my 3800 F40 setups. I believe that Spec changed the design of their disc because it has a hub on the splines to bring it out further into the pressure plate area. I've beaten on Michael's car pretty hard (don't tell him I said that ) The cap was added on our setups because I measured our stack height to need 10mm more on the slave/TB. Spec didn't provide that with their F40 kit until I insisted we get that cap.

I wish you would get more involved with 3800/F40 stuff.

Dave

quote I wish you would get more involved with 3800/F40 stuff.

I hate to point out the obvious.. but why would he?

The more mystery there is around the F40, the more sheep will want to buy a kit, and the less people that run the F40 will not be able to talk down the horrible gear ratios...

in other words

Archie makes more money on the kit based on how much information is NOT available, and he sells more kits based on how many people DONT post about how much it sucks after they do the swap.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I hate to point out the obvious.. but why would he? The more mystery there is around the F40, the more sheep will want to buy a kit, and the less people that run the F40 will not be able to talk down the horrible gear ratios... in other words Archie makes more money on the kit based on how much information is NOT available, and he sells more kits based on how many people DONT post about how much it sucks after they do the swap.

Seriously? He shouldn't get more involved because he makes more money being uninvolved? Outside of your bias in general, what experience do YOU have with a F40 swapped Fiero? Who has said it sucks after having the transmission installed? Let me guess, the hundreds of swapped W Bodies you claim there are right? Most of the guys running F40's in Fieros are V8 guys, and you don't exactly hang out with those guys so how would you know? There aren't that many running them with the 2.8 and as said before there are no CONFIRMED COMPLETED 3800 / F40's running in a Fiero as of right now, unless you count the one in the pic above, which we have NO details on and don't know whether it's even completed or not.

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 08-06-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Archie: The "in spite of the price" deal is something most people still don't understand. AS far as a F/W for the 6 cylinder, I don't do 6 cylinder swaps so I don't do 6 cylinder F/W's. However, all of my 6 speed kits are designed to use the same F/W that you would be needing for whatever engine you are installing.

Don't get me wrong Archie, I'm not negative on your work at all... I have the Highest respect for what you and your crew do there, and I'm not even saying that the price on your kit is unreasonable at all... it's just more than I can justify or afford at the moment... With how miserable the weather has been round here lately, I'm barely working enough to keep my bills paid, nevermind saving for toy projects, lol... However, when it becomes financially feasible for me, and being as you ARE the only one making a full F40 kit (that I know of too, lol), I will be coming to you for it... lol

as for the flywheel and clutch, yah, I have read about the 3900 F/W being dual mass, and unfortunately, unusable on a 3800... but since your setup is designed to work with the stock 2.8 setup, then it should be fne with my 3800...
and probly the biggest thing I like about your kits, is the fact that they are complete... I'm not gonna have to go hunting to source out bolts or connectors or other little misc. parts to make it work... other than the fact that my application is 3800 vs V8, everything else I need will be there when I open the box(es)...

I also read Daves thread on the previous 3800/F40 install he did with one of your kits, and am aware of the modification needed to the intermediate shaft and the oil filter, so I am fore-armed, lol

------------------
1986 Fiero SE 2.8 Auto - Blackie
1985 Fiero GT 2.8 4-spd - Goldie II - To be driveable this season
1985 Fiero SE Targa - 3.8SC - long term project
1987 Cavalier Z24 2.8 5-spd - daily beaten driver
1993 Bonneville SSEi - 3800SC donor for 85 Targa

quote Originally posted by iluvsd619: First off. I thank everyone who is a vender here in the Fiero World. Without you guys, these cars would just be regular stock beater cars. Chris is a good friend of mine. I know first hand that he works his ass of in the shop for these Fieros. He has lots of swaps running around in Cali. Im sorry to hear the situation between WCF and BMWGURU. You are both good at what you do and I appreciate the products you guys put out. Im not jumping in this post about the situation. Just wanted to show some respect to the both of you and to show this pick of a 3800sc/F40 in San Diego done by WCF. Hope it works out well for the both of you.

Thanks for posting that up, that's my complete beast 6spd 3800 sc2 that is in very good running condition and i never have any problems with it ever since i received it a couple of months ago from WCF. I have to say I'm still stoke about it, it is well built. I can say a tons of positive stuff about the car, but the only negative is from the beginning.. The wait, time, cost, work loads of WCF are just some of the things that i had to sacrificed on and expected. Over all at the end it's worth the wait no matter what comes up. Well i just want to say thanks to all the Fiero supporters here, i appreciate it.

I think this topic is getting away from the original post....

My point here is to prevent something like this from happening again.

I was very clear on my timeframe with WCF. Yes, I am sure they would have come through if I gave them another 6 months. I was also very clear upfront that if my timeframe couldn't be met, I would gladly go a completely different route with our project.

When I had enough, I asked for a refund and was ignored twice.

When I finally got hold of Chris he agreed to refund the money that was owed and I did not get a refund. I had to call my bank.

Dave

My gear ratios are bad enough, I couldn't' imagine driving the car with the F40.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I hate to point out the obvious.. but why would he? The more mystery there is around the F40, the more sheep will want to buy a kit, and the less people that run the F40 will not be able to talk down the horrible gear ratios... in other words Archie makes more money on the kit based on how much information is NOT available, and he sells more kits based on how many people DONT post about how much it sucks after they do the swap.

Obviously.

------------------
Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

quote Originally posted by Justinbart: My gear ratios are bad enough, I couldn't' imagine driving the car with the F40. Obviously.

Are you two talking about how short the gears are on the F40 in terms of "bad"? If so, I don't even want to hear about it. My 3.94 FD F23 has a shorter first gear compared to the F40, actually any FWD transmission besides the 84 4.10 4-speed. Its 14.11:1. That combined with my 195/75/14 tires...yea. I zip though each gear in no time, however the acceleration is pretty damn fast for an N/A 3800....

I will throw out the two experiences I have had with WCF.

1. I ordered a set of "84 to 87 front hubs" to do my brake upgrade and "Engine compartment Insulation" (cut for additional $).
... I called and placed the order. While placing the order I remember them asking me to wait while they got something to write my credit card number down on. Two weeks later I start getting fraudulent charges on my credit card and alerts from my bank. This was a credit card that I only used for purchasing stuff on the internet and over the phone. I didn't do many transactions on it where it should have turned up stolen like that... Coincidence? Maybe. I had to cancel the credit card and get one issued with a new number.
... 4 weeks after I placed the order I had to call back and find out where it was. Order never shipped because they didn't have my credit card number right... Hmmmm. I gave them the new credit card number.
... 3 weeks after that I got my parts. Hubs were fine. Looked great, fit great, quality was great, exactly what I expected. The insulation however was disappointing. It didn't come in one sheet like it looks on the website. It came in about 7 hacked up little pieces. When I got them in the car it looked like crap because of all the little gaps. I should have just got the solid sheet and hacked it up myself...

2. I ordered the "Power steering bracket and inner tie rod adapter only".
... He says that it will ship in 1 week and I will have it in 2 weeks at the latest.
... 4 weeks go by and I have to call him. He says that the brackets are made and he is just waiting for the adapters. It will be to me in two weeks.
... 2 weeks later I call and the adapters will be ready in a couple days. I told him to cancel the order and refund my credit card.
... 2 weeks later the charge is still on my credit card and I had to put in in dispute.

Now let me say that Chris spent about 20 minutes on the phone explaining a lot about the power steering pros and cons to me. That is what made me feel comfortable to give him my business again. So I can't fault him for that. I would probably still do business with him if he just told me that it would be 6-8 weeks before the parts were ready. I know that most people want it now, hell, I want things shipped to me in 3 days for free (Newegg trained me on that one). I do however remember the days of cutting out an order form from a comic book and waiting 6-8 weeks for the X-Ray glasses or whatever. I don't mind waiting if I am told up front.

When I read these threads I also get the feeling that if you are in CA and are dropping off a car for $6,000 worth of work it takes priority over the $200 website shipment. I work in manufacturing and I understand that you cannot afford to have $10,000 tied up in parts that you don't sell but 1 per year. I'm just saying let me know that there is a wait because you are going to send it off to be fabricated.

I have bought from Archie, Ryan (www.gmtuners.com), Dean (whodeanie), Rodney (rodneydickman.com), Jeremy (thefierofactory.com) and lots of people on this forum. All of them have great communication and there is where my money goes.

------------------
-Brian

My 87 GT Poly Suspension Upgrade (all pics) thread
Removing the roof panel

I don't want to join in on the bashing as the experience here speaks for itself.
Honesty is not just shipping an order that a customer paid for. Honesty is also meeting customer requirements and delivering what you promise.
If you take a customers money and promise 4 weeks delivery; come 4 weeks (give or take a couple of days) a customers order should be shipped or an offer of a refund should be given. The way in which bmwguru's order was handled leaves much to be desired. I do not believe that Chris West was intentionally out to steal anything like Loyde was, but if you do not deliver on your promise, such scenerios will eventually lead to unintended consequences.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

WCF's mounts and cables are top notch. I sourced the clutch, Saab jackshaft and I should have the axles in about 10 days. All I want now is my refund for the parts I didn't receive. I told them up front that I did not want to be their guinea pig.
Dave

quote Originally posted by mattwa: Are you two talking about how short the gears are on the F40 in terms of "bad"? If so, I don't even want to hear about it. My 3.94 FD F23 has a shorter first gear compared to the F40, actually any FWD transmission besides the 84 4.10 4-speed. Its 14.11:1. That combined with my 195/75/14 tires...yea. I zip though each gear in no time, however the acceleration is pretty damn fast for an N/A 3800....

Your apples serve no place in this conversation of oranges... Just because you seem to like having tractor gears, in your 190 horsepower car does not mean you have any experience to offer in the world of 400+hp setups. Even still you seem to say you "zip through each gear" which would imply that the gearing is indeed incorrect and you are spending most of your time shifting and out of your powerband.

Oh i'm sure my gearing would be horrible in a 400+HP setup, I bet it would be just spinning the tires on each gear instead of actually moving forward. I didn't say I was really happy with the gearing I have, it's just that I'm stuck with it for now.

quote Originally posted by bmwguru: I've taked to Chris on the phone and he is very unprofessional. Half the time, you'd swear he was drunk, but I cannot confirm that. Dave

I went to their shop, once, and was shown the margarita machine that was sitting right out in the work area (seriously). Very unprofessional. I can also confirm that at that time Chris had no stock, and they treated their out-of-town guests like crap. I don't do business with them at all.

Let"s just say................. I won't even get on this bandwagon

[This message has been edited by PURPLE REIGN (edited 08-15-2012).]

Out of all of the fiero vendors, I have received the least respect from Chris at WCF. It's awesome that they serve the community, they just seem to treat customers like crap and tend to not deliver in the timeframe they give you. I sent them a pristine fiero thermostat housing as a core and received a housing in badshape with pin holes in the heater return connection. I thought it would be OK so I didn't mention anything to them but have been having issues with that connection and have ended up buying another one from a private vendor in the mall.

[This message has been edited by JamesCurtis (edited 08-15-2012).]

Hi there.

I live in Geneva Switzerland and have owned an 88GT that has been converted to a 308 GTS replica.
For several years I have wanted to lower the suspension so that it did not look like a 4*4.

In May I got in touch with Chris West at WCF and he told me that what I need is the coil over kit so that I can drop the suppension by up to 2 inches.

I said ok and then placed my order in late May of this year, I had to do a bank transfer as apparently European credit cards are not accepted in the US. (I have had to do this with other companies in the US so did not think this was unusual)

He confirmed that he had recieved the payment at the beginning of June and that the parts would be sent in the next few days.
Every since then I have been sending him e-mail after e-mail asking where my parts are. everytime he replies that he is waiting for some new springs to come and and it should only be a few days more.

Now as of this week my e-mails that I am sending are bouncing back to me saying that they could not be delivered. I have tried to phone on several occasions (not easy with the time difference) but all I get is an answer machine.

Does anyone on here know what is going on with this company?
I can't exactly hop on a plane and go and see for my self.

I can not believe that a company like this can afford treat its customers like this.

Is anyone in contact with this company?

Any help or advise would be greatly recieved.

ps. Sorry to hijack another thread, but I can not seam to start a new topic (not sure why)

For those of you with issues, you can make those issues known to others...

http://www.bbb.org/central-...ehachapi-ca-89038887

quote Originally posted by Jocksoft: Hi there. I live in Geneva Switzerland and have owned an 88GT that has been converted to a 308 GTS replica. For several years I have wanted to lower the suspension so that it did not look like a 4*4.

I was going to recommend the Suspension Techniques spring set, but noticed that your car is an 88.....good luck.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/SUSP...&hash=item1e7113ab4a

[This message has been edited by I FAR I (edited 08-16-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Raydar: For those of you with issues, you can make those issues known to others... http://www.bbb.org/central-...ehachapi-ca-89038887

That is a good point. I just looked at their rating at it is a B+....which isn't horrible. My shop's rating is an A+. I will be filing a complaint to keep others from enduring the same fate.

Dave

quote Originally posted by I FAR I: I was going to recommend the Suspension Techniques spring set, but noticed that your car is an 88.....good luck. http://www.ebay.ca/itm/SUSP...&hash=item1e7113ab4a

Rodney Dickman sells drop spindles for the front. Don't recall exactly what most people are doing to drop the rear, but it's pretty well documented on this forum if you search for lowering threads. There are some with coil overs, or people just using cut springs as well.

Also, I think ST have stopped making the lowering spring sets for the Fiero. Intrax used to make some as well, and were the best ones I think, but they are very hard to find, especially in new.

Well i have delt with WCF and Chris plenty of times for all sorts of things and to be perfectly honest ,things i ordered came in good time ! i hvae odered 12inch break upgreade caliper adapters , and was never asked why i am not buying the roters ! generaly Chris was there to help me with some issues with my swap as well as many otheres includeing Dave i had him on speed dial throught out my build,
Now a recent order fro alot of things includeing F40 mounts,cables, HOTB part and a few other things too some time to get not into the over 90 day but a good 2 and a half months anyways it worked out well in the end because a extra set of 1.5 lowering springs with the shippment , now it ws not all odered by me so it wasnot my call to return the extra springs that came but anyways Chris if your inventory is missing a set of lowering springs they are up here in Canada !!!

Bump for fresh eyes. I still haven't been paid from WCF or my bank as of yet. I expect to hear from my bank by Friday unless WCF contests my refund. I have a plan B for that.

My arguement is that the only reason we decided to go with WCF's kit was Chris West assured me that his kit was COMPLETE, TESTED, and READY TO SHIP IN 3 WEEKS. Otherwise, we would have bought a Getrag....had it rebuilt and cyro treated and Charles would have been driving his car months ago.

Now, I have to do the R&D for free to finish what Chris West started.

Right now, I have lost more time and have $2500 in limbo right now that could be used for other investments.

Dave

Another bump.

As of today, I still haven't received a refund from WCF. The BBB is involved and I am waiting for my bank to finish their investigation. Mr West better hope that I don't have to fly out to collect the money in person.

Dave

[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 09-07-2012).]

Is WCF's not a member here? I mean, this is THE Fiero forum.

Chris West's son was on here for a while under the name "chicken mcnizzle". He hasn't posted since 2008.

Dave