Make sure your know what your purchasing. It was all my fault the car wasn't what the seller said it was. Fiero's aren't worth anything stock apparently so buy a 88 4 cylinder and mod the piss out of it.

[This message has been edited by 3.1 88FieroGT (edited 03-26-2013).]

There really is no difference in the chassis (88 coupe vs GT/Formula), except for springs and sway bar (rear). I wouldn't let it bother me, unless you are going to restore the vehicle.
Enjoy a nice rust free chassis!

[This message has been edited by 3.1 88FieroGT (edited 03-26-2013).]

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: There really is no difference in the chassis (88 coupe vs GT/Formula), except for springs and sway bar (rear). I wouldn't let it bother me, unless you are going to restore the vehicle. Enjoy a nice rust free chassis!

The difference is principal, buying something presented to you in a manner that you would not have otherwise. I think a better way of getting the point across is selling something for a certain price and the individual paying you, knowingly giving you a few counterfeit bills and you unknowingly accepting them.

quote Originally posted by 3.1 88FieroGT: Oh and that he lied to me about it being a 88 GT i don't like being lied to.

agreed about that. What does the title say (VINs match)?

[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 03-25-2013).]

[This message has been edited by 3.1 88FieroGT (edited 03-26-2013).]

quote Originally posted by 3.1 88FieroGT: yeah the title vin and the chassis vin match up

That is good (at least there isn't an issue there).
What are your plans for the chassis?

I don't want to excuse the actions of the seller, but you do know how to read a VIN, right?

[This message has been edited by 3.1 88FieroGT (edited 03-26-2013).]

quote Originally posted by 3.1 88FieroGT: Do you mean to ask if i know how to decode a fiero vin?

yes

[This message has been edited by 3.1 88FieroGT (edited 03-26-2013).]

for others:
http://www.fiero.net/vin.html

also for others:
The 5th letter in the VIN must be a 'G' in order for a car to be a 'GT'. The Fiero is probably the only car ever built where this problem can come up, because of the interchangeable body panels. The car as re-worked is nearly identical to a GT and can be made exactly as a GT, but if you are interested in a 'real factory' GT, you must do your research. This reality also tests the ethical fortitude of sellers, and apparently got the best of the one described here, assuming that he knew how to decode a VIN.

[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 03-25-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Gall757: The car as re-worked is nearly identical to a GT and can be made exactly as a GT, but if you are interested in a 'real factory' GT, you must do your research.

That is true. And unless one is interested in restoring a real, numbers-matching '88 GT, this probably wouldn't have been the car to do it with; its got many custom touches including paint and wheels and suspension on all four corners. Enjoy the rust-free chassis and build it to whatever you wanted to build when you bought it.

[This message has been edited by 3.1 88FieroGT (edited 03-26-2013).]

quote Originally posted by 3.1 88FieroGT: You probably wouldn't be saying that if you were the one who bought it for $4,500 not including transportation.

Ouch! That does seem high. But I'm assuming you were OK with the price when you were of the understanding it was a real '88GT?

quote Originally posted by 3.1 88FieroGT: You probably wouldn't be saying that if you were the one who bought it for $4,500 not including transportation.

Wait.

So did I read your introductory post right? You said you bought this as a "roller" (no engine and trans) and you paid $4,500 for it?

Geez that is ridiculously high if your focal point is an '88 GT. A guy local to me (and a member here on PFF, he'll likely see this thread at some point) bought a RUNNING AND DRIVING 1988 GT (a real one, not any sort of swap or mods) with 57,000 miles on it for under $3,000. Good paint, good body, good interior. There are cheap '88 GTs out there. Remember what people ask for cars and what they actually sell for are two entirely different things.

However I can understand your frustration. While there is no major differences between the '88 chassis itself, the car was represented as an '88 GT, and panel mis-matching can hide potential issues.. I mentioned in another thread I always keep a small printed piece of paper (it's about the size of a business card, double sided) in my wallet with all possible Fiero VINs on it. That way if I ever see a car when I'm out and about or want to confirm what a particular Fiero year is I can just look at that at a glance.

I'd have to agree, you actually Paid $4500 for a fiero with no engine or trans ? although it's a nice looking car with a lot of "stuff", $4500 !!?? PT Barnum comes to mind.

I do feel for you, I have made mistakes purchasing cars too, and its painful to the ego. I think its pretty bogus to misrepresent the car in the sale.
Personally, I think calling the guy out as screwing you is brash. I don't know all of the details that transpired, but ultimately its on you to ensure you buy what you want. Very few fiero owners are transparent when it comes to the real condition of their car. Some really don't know any better, some are all out trying to decieve you and me. Our job as buyers is to sort through that.

Caveat emptor
We all have learned a lesson or two along the way.

I think you're making a big deal out of nothing. The amount of work involved in converting a coupe to a GT didn't used to justify its cost, but with the values of '88 GTs rising this is what you're going to see more of - and frankly I'm glad it's happening at all. There's hundreds of thousands of non-88 chassis out there, but less than 26k '88s and only about 30k fastback GTs. At this point probably a lot less. If it were up to me, all remaining '88s would be converted to fastbacks! I'm a glass-is-half-full kind of guy, so let's look at it another way. You basically paid what would be a fair price for an '87 GT with a 3800SC/4T65EHD conversion, but you got an '88 chassis as a bonus. There's no other mechanical difference between a coupe & GT other than minor suspension stuff and options. Would you rather have a legit '87 GT, or an '88 coupe with a GT conversion for the same price? Most anyone here would take the latter in a heartbeat. NOBODY cares that the 5th VIN digit isn't a G besides show judges. Tell you what, those taillights and sails are worth their weight in myrrh, and a fastback conversion is a challenging job for even well-versed Fiero veterans. If I were you I'd be happy you got a real '88 at all. As many '88s and GTs are disappearing these days, every survivor should be cherished.

Disclaimer: I do not know the seller and have no dog in this fight whatsoever.

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/125671.html I only got $3k for this one ! with a New 3.4 and trans I know I Gave it away, but .....

First off let me start saying THIS GUY CALLS ME UP AND THREATENS TO COME SHOOT ME IN THE FACE! So obviously Im never going near him again or have anything to say to him. I also made a report to my local PD about it and the convo was recorded

The car he bought was a highly modded 88 fiero, everything aftermarket and I mean everything. HT motorsports tubular front suspension, QA1 adjustable coilover shocks, Koni adjustable rear coil overs, 13" light weight aluminum hat rotors, wilwood 4 piston calipers, 1' aftermarket sway bar, HT's big front bar, 17' wheels, new poly in everything. So thats where the $4500.00 comes from.

Now this car was a complete running, driving 12.0 swap. He makes a deal with me for the whole car for $7500.00. A couple weeks later he calls and says good news, bad news he still wanted the car but not enough money. We talked about another engine I had here that would be cheaper. Well i took my engine a part and the other wound up being bad. I told him of this and he says no problem I'll take with the short block thats in the car and some other heads I had for 6000.00.

Well a few more weeks roll by and I get another call, "Well good news/bad news" by this time I'm telling him I'm frustrated and really rethinking making this deal. So now he cant afford any engine/trans and then only way he could buy it was for 4K with no engine/trans. So i did the deal cuz by now my car is torn into pieces and Im done with it. He also gets DoubleC's headlight mod and Mr. Mikes leatherettes added to the deal for less money. Well a another week goes by, he shows up with a tow dolly to pick up a fiero without engine/trans/axles or anything in the rear. They wanted to show up at my house 10:00 pm on a monday night to take out the drive train. I had my sons do it because this is too late and we have work early the next morning.

He vins the car in the driveway before he leaves, gets lord knows where n calls me reaming me out because of my negligence and a lose bolt holding the trailing arms and lateral links together had made the wheels fall off. The bolt was still in with the nut but lose.Couldn't have been the tow dolly from youngstown Ohio to somewhere in Wisconsin by way a MI. He knows its not the axles fault because they have tow dolly'd many FWD car without axles on that dolly and the wheel bearing never fell out

There is nothing original hardly on that car at all, the cradle has been swapped, the whole front suspension, body panels because the old ones had road paint yellow on them, the brakes, the master cylinder, the taillights, headlights, seats, headliner. All this is what he was after and never said a word about the car being original. I got the car as a fastback and it left as a fastback, I never payed any attention to what was on the title.

Oh almost forgot because of his schedule date for his employer to pick up other cars for his work he tried to get me to let him take the car back with him and send me a check when his money cleared. When I said no thanks he again got furious and more or less started berating me on the phone saying things about me not trusting him but he trusted me with a measly $500 down and it wasn't right that I wouldn't do the same. Good thing because he would've had the car and no money to pay for it the way it was. Seems like a crook talking to me. I wonder if his employer knows he used a vehicle to tow the fiero back.

Seems to very unstable, dangerous, and shady n now he wants me to pay him for him taking the car. I actually fear for my life from this guy and his dad and I would highly recommend no one to invite this guy into your home or shop. Hell he was waiting on lawsuit money to pay for the car so whats that tell ya.

I've been a part of this community for a lot years and have never really had any trouble to speak of, never took money that wasn't mine, gave advise when I could, bought and sold quite a few parts. Im not throwing this out there to start trouble or to get create any more for myself. Just wanted my side out there.

I WILL NOT REPLY BACK TO ANYTHING IN HERE! I told my side and I will wait for court or defend myself in an appropriate manner from this guy.

Edited -

Having "up-built" several cars (a "Formula" from a coupe, and a Formula with a GT clip) I think that I would have at least mentioned at some point - and not just "in passing" - that the car was a "conversion", if I knew.

I'll leave it at that. I didn't realize that the car came with all the Held stuff. If that's true, it's not a bad deal. Probably not great, but not bad.

Two sides to every story...

------------------
Raydar
88 Formula IMSA Fastback. 4.9, NVG T550

Praise the Lowered!

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 03-25-2013).]

I agree with Raydar to a degree, but if I was buying a car for any amount I do my research first to ensure it is what it is. The quote "show me the car fax" goes a long way. If not car fax then autocheck. BUYER BEWARE.

Don't get me wrong but I have been burned in the past because of a title dispute that took a year to clear up but, had I done my research I would have known better.

Cash changes hands....You get a product.. Deal is done. I hate getting screwed, but when it's my own fault, it hurts even worse!

If this is the car I think it is. I'm very interested in it. Is it for sale?

When I sold the car that is in the "Link" I posted, I "TOLD" the guy that it was originally a SE notchie. Some people tell you, some don't . "USED CARS" always was, always will be "Buyer beware".

Doesn't sound that bad a deal to me with all the mods, but as my old grandad used to say, "A bought lesson is better than a given lesson!"
If I was shopping for a 65 FI 375HP vette, I would be concerned about mismatched numbers!

[This message has been edited by 3.1 88FieroGT (edited 03-26-2013).]

All of this seems like a whine fest for some ignorance. The car fell apart because of a halfass idea. Sorry you feel you got screwed but come on, use your brain before you buy something two states away and expect it to "roll" half put together at 70mph. Double check every thing, vins, bolts, you're own opinion if its really worth the time and effort.

Why would you tow that car 700 miles on a dolly? Cheap why would put the front on the dolly? Not smart. I can't believe you tore up that car.

I will consider myself warned. And if Dementia has something I want, I'll give him a call........

Well, I guess I will throw my opinion out there...

I have bought and sold a lot of Fiero's over the years, I have 4 sitting here right now. Only on my blue 87 GT have I ever thought to look at the VIN stickers on the body panels. I didn't even notice that the nose on my 87 GT has ribbed molding and not the round molding. That said, did you specifically ask Chris if all the body panels VINs matched the VIN plate? Is it possible that Chris just never checked? If you didn't verify, shame on you. If you asked and Chris knew but didn't tell you, shame on him.

I am just curious why are you worried about it being an 88 GT? Are you going to de-mod the car and restore it back to a stock 88 GT? It looks like a GT and the new value is in the fact it is upgraded to the teeth. Remember from the original posting that the car has Wilwood brakes, Held suspension, Konis, etc. I know because I wanted to buy that thing bad and messaged Chris about it. I'm not flaming you, just asking since I had been looking at the car.

As far as towing the car (on a dolly) without axles/transmission, that is all on you. If you have done enough research to drop $4,500 on a modded roller without an engine/transmission, you should have known how to tow it or researched how to tow it. If Chris put a bolt through the hub for you, it is still your responsibility to double and triple check it. My buddy and I have towed lots of cars on a trailer and we always check the straps after 20-30 miles on the highway. You would be amazed how much they loosen up. Also, we have had a wheel fall off pushing a car around the driveway without a transmission. We looked at each other and realized that sometimes you get to pay the "stupid tax".

I'm pretty sure that you can part that chassis out for more than you paid for it.

------------------
-Brian

My 87 GT Poly Suspension Upgrade (all pics) thread
Removing the roof panel
My HUD install thread

[This message has been edited by MulletproofMonk (edited 03-25-2013).]

[This message has been edited by 3.1 88FieroGT (edited 03-26-2013).]

I guess Fieros must be going up in value like crazy if being numbers matching is so important nowadays

Sorry to see this kind of situation, looks like a nice car.

quote Originally posted by 3.1 88FieroGT: Like I said before I'm more upset about it not being a legit 88GT. If someone wants to give me my money back by all means come and pick this fiero up......

Dude you trashed it and you want full price for it. Lol What will you take for it

[This message has been edited by SickTwin (edited 03-26-2013).]

[This message has been edited by 3.1 88FieroGT (edited 03-26-2013).]