So, I could film a documentary on the OJ murders and say I did it to expose OJ. It doesn't make it propaganda... Have you seen it?
It may or may not be propaganda, but such a film would NOT be a documentary. When you have a pre-formed opinion on something, and cast about for pieces of information to support that opinion, you are not making a documentary.
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01:01 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
OK. I just watched "Dogtown and Z-Boys" which was a documentary about sakteboarders which put across the point of view that these certain skateboarders were responsible for the entire state of skating as it exists. Now, how *objectively* would this point be made? What petri dish can you put that segment of society in and say that it would or would not be different if that part of history did not exist? Every individual has a point of view, and that point of view colors our reality. To posit that a documentary can be made without some form of "slant" or "bias" is completely absurd. I would love to see any example of a documentary film made that doesn't have some point of view. Even a bank security camera has a point of view.
I JUST finished watching Fahrenheit 9/11. The interviews, pictures, and experience make the film worth watching. I don't care who you want to vote for, if you support the war in Iraq, if you support president Bush then please take the time to see what those who have lost children have to say, and see the actual film of the soldiers.
It sure puts your values into perspective no matter what you think of Michael Moore or whether the film is a documentary or not. What matters and what struck me in this film is the content, and the actual content (ie: pictures, interviews, etc.) cannot be refuted. Its right there plain as day in technicolor for your viewing pleasure. If you don't like what our soldiers or the parents of soldiers who have lost their lives are saying... then tough, its not fake or scripted, its facts presented on the grim side of war and money. Sure there might be good intentions or bad intentions involved in getting us where we are, but what this film is really about are the consequences and the reality.
[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 07-13-2004).]
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11:24 PM
Jul 14th, 2004
stimpy Member
Posts: 8197 From: Salinas, CA Registered: Jan 2000
When people hear something they do not like, why do they automatically reject it and call it a lie?
Anyway, the point of this entire thread has been pointless. Michael Moore has admitted its an opinionated movie. His facts have been proven correct by unbiased sources and Michael Moore himself: http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes/
Instead of automatically rejecting something that is possibly truth. Why not actually consider what is being said and not be a stereotypical Republican. In other words, stop being so close minded and actually consider another side.
Guess it doesn't matter much anyway, it's already obvious who's winning the next election.
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10:44 AM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
When people hear something they do not like, why do they automatically reject it and call it a lie?
Yeah, I really jumped the gun on judging the Nazis for that whole Gasing the Jews thing. I really need to step back and look it again with more objectivity.
Yeah, I really jumped the gun on judging the Nazis for that whole Gasing the Jews thing. I really need to step back and look it again with more objectivity.
Yeah, I really jumped the gun on judging the Nazis for that whole Gasing the Jews thing. I really need to step back and look it again with more objectivity.
Gassing jews -vs- a movie? Hmmmm. someone is running out of logical rebuttals.
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12:32 PM
Steve Normington Member
Posts: 7663 From: Mesa, AZ, USA Registered: Apr 2001
I'm sure the things in the movie are facts. But the way he presents them and the facts that he leaves out are what make it biased. My example of how you can post a fact but make it misleading is the phrase, "Steve has not used cocaine since 2003." Since I have never used cocaine, this statement is true and factual. But it is written to mislead a reader into thinking I did cocaine until 2003. IMO, this is what Moore does.
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01:53 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
Gassing jews -vs- a movie? Hmmmm. someone is running out of logical rebuttals.
Funny, I was under the impression that you thought the movie was about "reality". Are you conceeding that it is just a work of fiction and should be compared to other movies like Gone with the Wind?
Clearly the movie declares President Bush and the US military to a be mass murderers so I find the Nazi comparison (real mass murderers) MORE than appropriate.
running out of logic you say? . . . . . . swish.
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02:05 PM
PFF
System Bot
Tugboat Member
Posts: 1669 From: Goodview, VA Registered: Jan 2004
Funny, I was under the impression that you thought the movie was about "reality". Are you conceeding that it is just a work of fiction and should be compared to other movies like Gone with the Wind?
Clearly the movie declares President Bush and the US military to a be mass murderers so I find the Nazi comparison (real mass murderers) MORE than appropriate.
running out of logic you say? . . . . . . swish.
How do you know? You've told us you haven't seen it.
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02:32 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
Funny, I was under the impression that you thought the movie was about "reality". Are you conceeding that it is just a work of fiction and should be compared to other movies like Gone with the Wind?
Clearly the movie declares President Bush and the US military to a be mass murderers so I find the Nazi comparison (real mass murderers) MORE than appropriate.
running out of logic you say? . . . . . . swish.
It is about reality. Because the shots and interviews are REAL. I never did say the movie was a documentary. Its not a documentary its facts presented with an opinion voiced over the top. Funny though because most documentaries are just that. Go figure.
Swish... what you think not seeing a movie then commenting on it with no source and then comparing it to gassing jews is a winning argument?
.. . . .
Bwuahahahahahahaha....
[This message has been edited by connecticutFIERO (edited 07-14-2004).]
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02:44 PM
Tugboat Member
Posts: 1669 From: Goodview, VA Registered: Jan 2004
It is about reality. Because the shots and interviews are REAL. I never did say the movie was a documentary. Its not a documentary its facts presented with an opinion voiced over the top. Funny though because most documentaries are just that. Go figure.
Swish... what you think not seeing a movie then commenting on it with no source and then comparing it to gassing jews is a winning argument?
.. . . .
Bwuahahahahahahaha....
Then you agree that we are not talking about the movie as "Film". We are not going to discuss the lighting, acting, wardrobe, musical score, etc.
We are talking about the validity of it as a representation of reality. In which case the gasing of the Jews, a real world event, is an entirely appropriate (even if extreme) analogy.
Which brings us back to the point, the question was why do I pre-judge things I don't like? And the answer is as simple as human nature, because when a pile of horse sh*t is flying towards your face...YOU DUCK!
You don't stand there and let it smack you in the kisser, inhale it's aroma, and ponder the question of the horses' last meal. It smells bad for a reason. It is natures way of saying, "this ain't chili"!
So, if it looks like horsesh*t, smells like horsesh*t, and is being delivered to movie theaters courtesy of a horses ass, I'll give you odds on what it is!
Then you agree that we are not talking about the movie as "Film". We are not going to discuss the lighting, acting, wardrobe, musical score, etc.
We are talking about the validity of it as a representation of reality. In which case the gasing of the Jews, a real world event, is an entirely appropriate (even if extreme) analogy.
Which brings us back to the point, the question was why do I pre-judge things I don't like? And the answer is as simple as human nature, because when a pile of horse sh*t is flying towards your face...YOU DUCK!
You don't stand there and let it smack you in the kisser, inhale it's aroma, and ponder the question of the horses' last meal. It smells bad for a reason. It is natures way of saying, "this ain't chili"!
So, if it looks like horsesh*t, smells like horsesh*t, and is being delivered to movie theaters courtesy of a horses ass, I'll give you odds on what it is!
Even though you wrote about half a page of text, you didn't actually accompish anything. The fact still stands that the CONTENT of the movie, not the lighting or filmography is fact sprinkled with opinionated dialogue. As far as reality based goes, the movie is based on the reality of war, what soldiers fighting it think, what families of those soldiers think, what congress members think of sending their kids to war, and of course how it relates to the current administration.
Pick an intrerview and dispute it, I don't care what class the film is in, it still holds water when tested.
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05:05 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
Originally posted by connecticutFIERO: what soldiers fighting it think,
Really?
Which Soldiers? Did he interview all 130,000 of them? I'll tell you the "reality". He interviewed about 100 but showed clips of only a handful. In fact that "handful" represented opinions DIFFERENT from the other 80 interviews. So how real is that? He only showed the opinions of a few soldiers that shared his thoughts, that is all. Hardly independent or balanced....or real.
quote
what families of those soldiers think, what congress members think of sending their kids to war, and of course how it relates to the current administration.
In their singularly myopic view.
quote
Pick an intrerview and dispute it, I don't care what class the film is in, it still holds water when tested.
Oh yeah, it holds water, like a colonder. But Moore is presenting the littel teaspoon of water at the bottom where there are no holes and pretending it represents the opinion of EVERYBODY except the administration. Yeah, it holds water, so does a paper towel but I wouldn't put it under too much pressure or snap...you get exactly what we have here. A joke of a film that is getting the lambasting it deserves from people in the know.
Oh yeah, it holds water, like a colonder. But Moore is presenting the littel teaspoon of water at the bottom where there are no holes and pretending it represents the opinion of EVERYBODY except the administration. Yeah, it holds water, so does a paper towel but I wouldn't put it under too much pressure or snap...you get exactly what we have here. A joke of a film that is getting the lambasting it deserves from people in the know.
Then again its getting good reviews from people who actually see it, as opposed to the people like you who DIDN"T see it and then turn around and claim to be "in the know". I'll tell you what, when you are "in the know" I'll roll over let you rub my belly like a good dog. Until then, your views are nothing more than speculation and exagerrated rumors.
