Bump to page 4. I've always wondered what it felt like to "rent" a page in Cliff's house.

Edit: This was sorta like the equivalent of a "sig test" for me.

[This message has been edited by BigRed88 (edited 10-24-2005).]

quote Originally posted by dezie36: First, Americans on average love SUVs... Second a Cherokee is a SUV!

i think of it more as a station wagon. i got it because i once had a jeep comanche pickup which i liked very much, then a couple of minivans which i didnt like. why not another comanche? it only carries 2 people.

now, the cherokee is remarkably similar to the comanche, same frame, same cab, same drivetrain, except the bed is closed in and it has 4 seats. it also has 4wd, which i use only to get out of (never in to) places 2wd wont.

so while technically i suppose it could be called an SUV, in my mind it's station wagon which replaced a pickup.

i think SUVs and humongous trucks are silly and wasteful unless you need one for work, or regularly haul scads of people, but youve gone overboard here. ive still got you rated as neutral.

my advice? back away from this thread, no good will come of it. (take it or leave it, your choice)

Ill agree with the people in SUVs speeding. Most of the people I personally see cruising thru town on the freeway in them are usually going at least 20 over the limits. I drive fast myself, but they pass me all the time like im parked. SUV owners for the most part that ive seen are not looking so much to be noticed, just arrogant that the road and rules were not meant for them. And no not every speeder is not an SUV, some are little old ladies or ricers (who think their fast).

quote Originally posted by Patrick: I don't know the figures, but I would suspect that for every person who dies because they panicked and didn't release their seatbelts in a firey crash, there's a hundred (or a thousand?) who died because they were thrown around or were ejected from the vehicle and died on impact. I wouldn't drive around the block without my seatbelt being on. That goes for my passengers as well.

I also don't have specific figures, but I can tell you this. In the years I've been writing and reading news on air, I've done dozens of stories on people who weren't wearing seat belts and were ejected from vehicles and killed, some pinned beneath vehicles after being ejected. I have yet to see a news release about someone burning to death in their vehicle, or drowning in a submerged vehicle because they couldn't get out.

If I never did anything because one time I heard a story about someone being injured or killed that way, I'd be a nervous wreck and never leave my house. Oh, wait...people have accidents all the time in their homes too!

quote Originally posted by lurker: i think of it more as a station wagon. i got it because i once had a jeep comanche pickup which i liked very much, then a couple of minivans which i didnt like. why not another comanche? it only carries 2 people. now, the cherokee is remarkably similar to the comanche, same frame, same cab, same drivetrain, except the bed is closed in and it has 4 seats. it also has 4wd, which i use only to get out of (never in to) places 2wd wont. so while technically i suppose it could be called an SUV, in my mind it's station wagon which replaced a pickup. i think SUVs and humongous trucks are silly and wasteful unless you need one for work, or regularly haul scads of people, but youve gone overboard here. ive still got you rated as neutral. my advice? back away from this thread, no good will come of it. (take it or leave it, your choice)

Technically the Suburban, Yukon, Cherokee, Suberu SUV's are all just stationwagons. My 86 Burban manual lists it as a wagon on the first few pages. SUV is just a term Sport Utillity Vehicle to make the yuppies feel good, so they don't have to say they are driveing daddies stationwagon. I myself consider them trucks, except for the little tiny Suberus. When I talk about my Burb I call it a truck. I do need it for work, and the farm. When I pick up 30 or 40 50 lbs bags of feed at the feed store I've got 1,500 to 2,000 lbs. of feed in the back and from the average car you can't even see anything in the back so it looks like I'm rideing alone. Is that a waste or are you going to be upset with me and cut me off because you can't see around me?
Last time I went to a job site I had 2 guys riding with me and 3 of those tool boxes the size of mine in there, with room to spare for suitecases, We were staying at a motell, job was over 100 miles from home. Lets see you put that load in a Sidekick.
I'm not saying that the socker moms don't drive them, but think about this. If it weren't for that socker mom hauling 7 or 8 kids plus all there gear you would have 5 or more socker moms driveing 5 or more cars. Even if they got the little cars getting great mileage, they would still be useing more gas and road space. Eating up the ozone.
So what if they want to feel safer in there Burbans, and Explorers. It's there right to drive whatever they want to. I personaly feel much safer and the ride is much better in the Burb than anything else I own. Not that I don't feel safe in the Fiero, it did get a five star crash rateing. The Burb is just more comfortable, easier to get in and out of.
So every time socker mom has to do the car pool she needs to rent a truck. Come on denzie36 lets be realistic and agree that just because we all have diferent needs we have to have different cars and trucks.

" Dude those of us with no need to do that don’t drive a burb... well some do and those people are the ones I’m bitching about.
A soccer mom hauling her family around in a Burb is utterly retarded..."

The only retarded thing around here is your attitude about other peoples needs, maybe they can only afford one vehicle, or its moms stationwagon, dad is driveing the econobox, and now days that is the only stationwagon they make. GM, Ford, Dodge and the others no longer make regular wagons.

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 10-24-2005).]

I know many of you are wondering "where's that Andrew and one of his inane images?" Well, I think you should be able to drive whatever you want. If we lived on a little island, and were only allowed to have one child per couple, little cars would probably be more popular. Since we live in a country that is thousands of miles wide, all of the fantastic travel opportunities, in addition to the 5 or so kids us white trashies have ( ) makes having a bigger vehicle a necessity. Consumers preference makes little cars unpopular, so if you can pay the price to attain what it is that you prefer, that means whatever is left over fails to make it in a market economy. Here it comes... Some people like to buy certain vehicles to be noticed, it's hard to spread the word of Jesus when you're driving a teeny tiny car...

quote Originally posted by dezie36: I hate them because in an accident they will kill the occupants of other vehicles... they are on ridged ladder frames that don’t collapse or bend so the driver of a car hit by a SUV will feel all of the impact energy!

Isn't that their fault for choosing an unsafe vehicle? So what should we do...outlaw frame vehicles, and make everyone equally unsafe? No one should have a bigger car than anyone else either. Can you imagine a Lincoln or a Cadillac in a collision with, say, a Geo Metro? Nah...let's make everyone equally unsafe in a Geo.

You're doing a whole lot of generalizing in this thread, Dezie. Take care of your own house first.

quote Originally posted by F-I-E-R-O: I know many of you are wondering "where's that Andrew and one of his inane images?" Well, I think you should be able to drive whatever you want. If we lived on a little island, and were only allowed to have one child per couple, little cars would probably be more popular. Since we live in a country that is thousands of miles wide, all of the fantastic travel opportunities, in addition to the 5 or so kids us white trashies have ( ) makes having a bigger vehicle a necessity. Consumers preference makes little cars unpopular, so if you can pay the price to attain what it is that you prefer, that means whatever is left over fails to make it in a market economy. Here it comes... Some people like to buy certain vehicles to be noticed, it's hard to spread the word of Jesus when you're driving a teeny tiny car...

LOL! You are the man!

hey how you all doin

[This message has been edited by timmer (edited 10-24-2005).]

quote Originally posted by dezie36: ***** that’s not what this thread is about... but fine you want to bring it there... I don’t hate SUV'S for their poor gas mileage, many get better then my v8 Fiero... I hate them because in an accident they will kill the occupants of other vehicles... they are on ridged ladder frames that don’t collapse or bend so the driver of a car hit by a SUV will feel all of the impact energy! I have a V8 Fiero because I’m a speed demon. You'll take any excuse to try and turn a thread against me... just shows how immature you are.

I was wondering what the implied word was where one was appaerantly left out in the heading. So since you have brung it there- here is what I have for you.

Since you appearantly HATE America I would like to invite you to leave. We the people have givin you the ability to freely do so.

If you truely hate America and no longer want to be a part of it you will leave.

If you are in jihad you will certainly stay and continue to spew your hatred and anti American sentiments.

If you truely love America with all its faults you will shut up, pipe down, and apply your inclinations at the voting poll and support your favorite candidate/politician.

You certainly do not have the abilty to voice your opinion without belittling the country that has afforded you the right to do so. Even the rightest right and the leftest left can do this without implying they hate America.

I complain about too many pickups as much as SUVs. If you dont tow with them, into contractor work, or live on a farm, I see no legitimate use for a pickup. Yes SUVs and pickups for the most part are identical platforms. For example what use is a pickup or SUV to a 17 year old who goes to school and works at Burger King. One of my pieves about both is they set high enough to throw rocks at your car from their tires when they wizz by at 90 mph, especially with some of the aggressive tread patterns on a lot of them.

I believe this needs to be posted again...

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: I finally managed to get a pic of her with her new 4X4 Ford.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: I believe this needs to be posted again... [QUOTE]Originally posted by rogergarrison: I finally managed to get a pic of her with her new 4X4 Ford.

[/QUOTE]

There is no way that she needs a car that big......she must be trying to make up for some non-existant manhood!

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: ........ The Burb is just more comfortable, easier to get in and out of.......

Don't forget about the cup holders! You can carry several mixed drinks around on the console, plus one heck of a stash and a few kegs in the back for that weekend drunkfest. Hopefully the little Geo Metros will stay out out of the way while you are trying to drive home after having too many. They just get stuck in the wheel wells and scrape on the tires......

If you really want to protect yourself while driving the Suburban, mount a snow plow on the front end and help clear the road as you travel.....

quote Originally posted by Firefox: Don't forget about the cup holders! You can carry several mixed drinks around on the console, plus one heck of a stash and a few kegs in the back for that weekend drunkfest. Hopefully the little Geo Metros will stay out out of the way while you are trying to drive home after having too many. They just get stuck in the wheel wells and scrape on the tires...... If you really want to protect yourself while driving the Suburban, mount a snow plow on the front end and help clear the road as you travel.....

I know I shouldn't but you asked for it.
Ya and under the front console cup holders there an area for my Glock for a$$holes like you. Don't be stupid. The Geo Metros are just speed bumps, they are to small to get stuck in the wheel wells. Don't need the plow everything out there is smaller than the burb except for rogergarrison's friend with the F 350 monster truck. Besides why should I plow the road for guys like you to drive your little imports around?
Now that I have vented,
I have a right to drive anything I want as long as it is within my wallet and legal to be on the streets, passes inspection, and is not driven recklessly.
Just because you feel unsafe in what ever it is that you drive does not make it wrong for me or anyone else to drive a full size truck, not monster trucks, they are not legal in any state. There are bumper hight standards that monster trucks will not pass. Don't put law abideing people in the same class as people that drive trucks that have lift kits and oversized tires.
I don't think the Fiero would be of much use to me when I go get feed for the farm or haul the 4 horse stock trailer around, or in 4' of snow or hauling my large job box and steel to job sightes. I drive a vehicle that is apropriate for the job at hand, if I'm just running to the store for small items in good weather I drive the Fiero, but I will not drive it in snow.
The quote you cut out of context from my last post was;
"I'm not saying that the socker moms don't drive them, but think about this. If it weren't for that socker mom hauling 7 or 8 kids plus all there gear you would have 5 or more socker moms driveing 5 or more cars. Even if they got the little cars getting great mileage, they would still be useing more gas and road space. Eating up the ozone.
So what if they want to feel safer in there Burbans, and Explorers. It's there right to drive whatever they want to. I personaly feel much safer and the ride is much better in the Burb than anything else I own. Not that I don't feel safe in the Fiero, it did get a five star crash rateing. The Burb is just more comfortable, easier to get in and out of. "
I don't know what your problem is and I really don't care.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Technically the Suburban, Yukon, Cherokee, Suberu SUV's are all just stationwagons.

Technically they are all light trucks... GM and Ford, and Jeep fought for them to be classified as Light truck in the 80s so that they didn’t have to have the same standards in fuel economy and safety as cars... which were killing their sales and losing those sales to Japanese car manufactures... they then marketed them to middle class pencil pushers to make them feel like they had this adventurous life that they didn’t have... This is where SUVs in their current incarnation come from.

quote Originally posted by dezie36: The Fiero is a perfectly safe car... until its t-boned by a Yukon... then the occupants of the Fiero die. Whose fault is it that they died? Depends on the accident… but in this scenario… lets say the driver of the Fiero is at fault, ran a stop sign… but had the person in the Yukon been in a Neon (or any other small to midsize sedan)… the occupants of the Fiero still wouldn’t have died. We obviously cant outlaw one car, and not out outlaw all cars... but what I as an American can do is try to spread the knowledge of how dangerous SUVs (LIGHT TRUCKS) are and try to convince as many people as I can to stop buying them.

No no. Simple physics.. You just have to speed, alot, all the time, and have more momentum than whatever you are going to hit

quote Originally posted by dezie36:t... what does she have like 30 horses she needs to pull around? she have a tree stump removal service on the side? oh maybe she does cross country Fiero hauling... just put it in her flat bed.

Tell us again why you NEED a V8 Fiero ?

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: No no. Simple physics.. You just have to speed, alot, all the time, and have more momentum than whatever you are going to hit

Johnny, was it you years ago in this forum who tried to convince us that the best way to survive a head on collision was to be going faster than the other driver? If so, you couldn't convince us then, and you won't be able to convince us now!

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Tell us again why you NEED a V8 Fiero ?

her first...

I need it because I need to feel cool... and I need people to look at me and say wow what kind of car is that

I don’t actually need it... not for every day driving any way (which is why i want the smart car) my being greedy unlike hers isn’t going to kill any one... again I’ve never been in an accident where I’ve been at fault (so you can leave the you speed demon thing alone). She on the other hand even if she isn’t at fault... like in my example of the Fiero that blows the stop sign will still kill someone.

If you have a real reason for a truck like this… for example one of my classmates lives on a farm and he has one of these kinds of trucks and uses it for hauling cattle, pulling stumps ext. and I have no problem with him having it… this hooters girl on the other hand I seriously doubt she needs it… I of course will take it back if its revealed that she lives on a farm and gets up at 5am to pull stumps.

quote Originally posted by dezie36: Technically they are all light trucks... GM and Ford, and Jeep fought for them to be classified as Light truck in the 80s so that they didn’t have to have the same standards in fuel economy and safety as cars... which were killing their sales and losing those sales to Japanese car manufactures... they then marketed them to middle class pencil pushers to make them feel like they had this adventurous life that they didn’t have... This is where SUVs in their current incarnation come from.

Really and you know this because you were born in the 80's right? You are a child and don't have a clue about life or responsibility. you don't have a come back to anything other than the ladder frame. All trucks and car started out with them yet they can not improve upon it and you want a useless toy, yet fail to understand other peoples view point, or needs.
go back home to where ever you came from.

------------------
technology is great when it works
and one big pain in the ass when it doesnt.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Really and you know this because you were born in the 80's right? You are a child and don't have a clue about life or responsibility. you don't have a come back to anything other than the ladder frame. All trucks and car started out with them yet they can not improve upon it and you want a useless toy, yet fail to understand other peoples view point, or needs. go back home to where ever you came from.

I know this because its part of history!
Pick up a book other then the bible once and awhile! I’ve stated a book that chronicles all this yet no one here has ever picked it up...

I understand other peoples point of view... the reason people buy these big ass vehicles for one or more of the following reasons
1. They have something to prove either to them self or others
2. They have a need to be noticed (that’s why I have a v8 Fiero)
3. They think they need it to haul family, things, and to be safe in the snow
4. They actually use it for farm work or construction or anything where it would be used for its purpose.

Oh ya and yes cars USED to be built on ladder frames… you every think about why they changed it? Because ladder frames do not bend or contort in an accident thus not absorbing the energy created during impact that would go into the driver.

A car is built with crumple zones and a frame that takes the energy from an impact thus saving the occupants lives… Light Trucks do not… they have no crumple zones, nor do they have frame that takes the energy… this IS basic physics… but again I’m a child and wouldn’t know of such things.

But aren’t you guilty of the same thing? You obviously don’t understand my point of view...and all you can do is call me a child as you have no real argument... your whole purpose here is to say you disagree with me... even if you don’t know or understand why.

[This message has been edited by dezie36 (edited 10-24-2005).]

quote Originally posted by dezie36: I know this because its part of history! Pick up a book other then the bible once and awhile! I’ve stated a book that chronicles all this yet no one here has ever picked it up... I understand other peoples point of view... the reason people buy these big ass vehicles for one or more of the following reasons 1. They have something to prove either to them self or others 2. They have a need to be noticed (that’s why I have a v8 Fiero) 3. They think they need it to haul family, things, and to be safe in the snow 4. They actually use it for farm work or construction or anything where it would be used for its purpose. But aren’t you guilty of the same thing? You obviously don’t understand my point of view...and all you can do is call me a child as you have no real argument... your whole purpose here is to say you disagree with me... even if you don’t know or understand why.

4)
I do need it for work, and the farm. When I pick up 30 or 40 50 lbs bags of feed at the feed store I've got 1,500 to 2,000 lbs. of feed in the back and from the average car you can't even see anything in the back so it looks like I'm rideing alone. Is that a waste or are you going to be upset with me and cut me off because you can't see around me?
Last time I went to a job site I had 2 guys riding with me and 3 of those tool boxes the size of mine in there, with room to spare for suitecases, We were staying at a motell, job was over 100 miles from home. Lets see you put that load in a Sidekick.
3)
I'm not saying that the socker moms don't drive them, but think about this. If it weren't for that socker mom hauling 7 or 8 kids plus all there gear you would have 5 or more socker moms driveing 5 or more cars. Even if they got the little cars getting great mileage, they would still be useing more gas and road space. Eating up the ozone.
So what if they want to feel safer in there Burbans, and Explorers. It's there right to drive whatever they want to. I personaly feel much safer and the ride is much better in the Burb than anything else I own. Not that I don't feel safe in the Fiero, it did get a five star crash rateing.
2)
I don't need to be noticed I just need to get to work!
1)
I have nothing to prove to you or anyone

Building commercial palygrounds I sure wish I had the biggest truck I could get. Sure makes pulling the old ones out of the ground a lot easier. Not only that, but carrying tons of concrete bags, and dragging ourselves through the various states that we did sure makes for a more comfortable ride and happier employees!

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Kid just how old are you? 20 21

It doesn’t matter how old I am every one here knows I’m just about 21 (little more then 2 weeks)... but I’m not on here telling people oh please let me kill you with my car.

don’t act all high and mighty (they that’s the name of the book)... you are the child... not me... I never wish harm on any one... not even cliffw or Jstrickler.

If you use the truck for your job... I have no problem with you as I’ve stated a million fing times! Its the succor moms, teenagers, the I want to be cool guys that drive them that I have a problem with.... these trucks are not cars, they are tools... I feel the same why about this as when some one goes into my garage and hammers on a nail with a socket wrench.

Oh FYI the problem with soccer moms using these as transportation for children is that they are more dangerous for children in the event of an accident... if the trucks frame and body doesn’t take the energy from the impact where do you think it goes? Your older you must know that energy doesn’t just disappear... it goes into the bodies of the occupants... in adults this can mean whiplash or banged heads, for children this can mean snapped necks!

But I guess you don’t care about them either... after all they are just children and didn’t know any better.

Oh an your last post… the one I’m quoting here… proves that the buyers of these things do for one or more of those reasons… thank you for making my point.

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: 4) I do need it for work, and the farm. When I pick up 30 or 40 50 lbs bags of feed at the feed store I've got 1,500 to 2,000 lbs. of feed in the back and from the average car you can't even see anything in the back so it looks like I'm rideing alone. Is that a waste or are you going to be upset with me and cut me off because you can't see around me? Last time I went to a job site I had 2 guys riding with me and 3 of those tool boxes the size of mine in there, with room to spare for suitecases, We were staying at a motell, job was over 100 miles from home. Lets see you put that load in a Sidekick. 3) I'm not saying that the socker moms don't drive them, but think about this. If it weren't for that socker mom hauling 7 or 8 kids plus all there gear you would have 5 or more socker moms driveing 5 or more cars. Even if they got the little cars getting great mileage, they would still be useing more gas and road space. Eating up the ozone. So what if they want to feel safer in there Burbans, and Explorers. It's there right to drive whatever they want to. I personaly feel much safer and the ride is much better in the Burb than anything else I own. Not that I don't feel safe in the Fiero, it did get a five star crash rateing. 2) I don't need to be noticed I just need to get to work! 1) I have nothing to prove to you or anyone

[This message has been edited by dezie36 (edited 10-24-2005).]

quote Originally posted by dezie36: I know this because its part of history! Pick up a book other then the bible once and awhile! I’ve stated a book that chronicles all this yet no one here has ever picked it up... I understand other peoples point of view... the reason people buy these big ass vehicles for one or more of the following reasons 1. They have something to prove either to them self or others 2. They have a need to be noticed (that’s why I have a v8 Fiero) 3. They think they need it to haul family, things, and to be safe in the snow 4. They actually use it for farm work or construction or anything where it would be used for its purpose. Oh ya and yes cars USED to be built on ladder frames… you every think about why they changed it? Because ladder frames do not bend or contort in an accident thus not absorbing the energy created during impact that would go into the driver. A car is built with crumple zones and a frame that takes the energy from an impact thus saving the occupants lives… Light Trucks do not… they have no crumple zones, nor do they have frame that takes the energy… this IS basic physics… but again I’m a child and wouldn’t know of such things. But aren’t you guilty of the same thing? You obviously don’t understand my point of view...and all you can do is call me a child as you have no real argument... your whole purpose here is to say you disagree with me... even if you don’t know or understand why.

I'm an athiest, dumdum

they changed to unibody to save weight and gain mileage. I worked for General Motors before you were born.

I understan your point of view, you are a child with no real knoledge or understanding of other people. That was proven buy you starting this post

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: I'm an athiest, dumdum they changed to unibody to save weight and gain mileage. I worked for General Motors before you were born. I understan your point of view, you are a child with no real knoledge or understanding of other people. That was proven buy you starting this post

They also changed to unibody to increase safety for the increasing safety standards that were arising in the 80s... again please please read High and Mighty before you try to tell me whats what.

You obviously don’t understand my point of view other wise you wouldn’t be fighting me on this... as I have no problem with people who use these trucks (cause that’s what they all are) for what they were intended.

This post was about how I want the smart car (oh damn me for wanting it)... and I stated just what the MSNBC article stated... that our American society is all about these major large trucks and the smart company was afraid of releasing their car here for fear that people wouldn’t buy them... thus robbing me of a very cool small 2 seater with great gas mileage. Yes I can get a car that’s small... or a two seater... that gets good gas mileage... the Fiero for example... but even the best Fiero wont get 60mpg... I like small 2 seaters and one that gets 60mpg is a gold star in my book

Sorry for angering you so much Mr. farm man in your big truck...

quote Originally posted by dezie36: this hooters girl on the other hand I seriously doubt she needs it… I of course will take it back if its revealed that she lives on a farm and gets up at 5am to pull stumps.

if the young lady wants to pull my stump at 5 am that's ok with me.

quote Originally posted by lurker: if the young lady wants to pull my stump at 5 am that's ok with me.

Your "stump"? Don't you mean your mighty oak?

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Your "stump"? Don't you mean your mighty oak?

hey! how'd you know? ladies been talking again, i see.

[This message has been edited by lurker (edited 10-25-2005).]

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: No no. Simple physics.. You just have to speed, alot, all the time, and have more momentum than whatever you are going to hit

ROFLMAO, good one Johnny!

It's getting easier to resist the temptation to post because pretty much everything that is worth saying has been said already. The problem here is that somebody isn't listening so....

...WTF am I doing checking this thread at 3:00am anyway?

quote Originally posted by dezie36: They also changed to unibody to increase safety for the increasing safety standards that were arising in the 80s......

I am sure building things cheaper and crappier to maximize profits had nothing to do with it. As far as safety, they do not build race cars softer to absorb energy from accidents, they are solid frames with a cosmetic body. The softer street cars mean more damage and more easily totaled vehicles from accidents. It would make sense that as a car crumples it will absorb some energy but when you hit a wall you are gonna stop just as quick. I would not want to be in something designed to fold around me.

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 10-25-2005).]