quote Originally posted by cliffw: I am sure building things cheaper and crappier to maximize profits had nothing to do with it. As far as safety, they do not build race cars softer to absorb energy from accidents, they are solid frames with a cosmetic body. The softer street cars mean more damage and more easily totaled vehicles from accidents. It would make sense that as a car crumples it will absorb some energy but when you hit a wall you are gonna stop just as quick. I would not want to be in something designed to fold around me.

Then I guess you can stop driving anything but a truck... even your loved Fiero.

You guys seem so dense that you refuse to believe that regular cars absorb the energy from an impact.... seriously are you guys just ****ing with me? You all cant be this dense... no one is.

Which is better a totaled car or a snapped neck? That’s your choice when you pick between a truck and a car… and if a snapped neck means you can believe your right that’s your right as an American… just not a smart one.

quote Originally posted by dezie36: They also changed to unibody to increase safety for the increasing safety standards that were arising in the 80s... again please please read High and Mighty before you try to tell me whats what. You obviously don’t understand my point of view other wise you wouldn’t be fighting me on this... as I have no problem with people who use these trucks (cause that’s what they all are) for what they were intended. This post was about how I want the smart car (oh damn me for wanting it)... and I stated just what the MSNBC article stated... that our American society is all about these major large trucks and the smart company was afraid of releasing their car here for fear that people wouldn’t buy them... thus robbing me of a very cool small 2 seater with great gas mileage. Yes I can get a car that’s small... or a two seater... that gets good gas mileage... the Fiero for example... but even the best Fiero wont get 60mpg... I like small 2 seaters and one that gets 60mpg is a gold star in my book Sorry for angering you so much Mr. farm man in your big truck...

Well at least you are reading, even if it is something by someone who wouldn't know a good design if it ran over them.
The company thinks;
Instead, smart USA is betting Americans won't want the small smarts, at least not yet, and has taken a different strategy: a smart SUV, available here in 2006. The first press release touts not the mileage but that it's "loaded with adrenaline — both off road as well as on."

As far as safe;
In Europe's five-star crash rating system, the smarts get three stars.

These are quotes fron the article you keep talking about, and I love this;
The frame for smart cars is made of reinforced steel, creating what engineers compare to the way a walnut shell protects the nut.

Smart
The frame for smart cars is made of reinforced steel, creating what engineers compare to the way a walnut shell protects the nut.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Look at the picture of the space frame, gee isn't that fraze familiar, oh, oh, oh ya isn't that how the Fiero was made? So they used the Fiero for there frame design.

Smart also likes to show off a 30-mph crash test between a smart coupe and a Mercedes sedan twice as big. "The passenger cell survived the collision almost unscathed," says spokeswoman Julia Knittel.

Mercedes full size sedans are not small but granted they are not SUV's. Then again at the size of the car and the Mercedes if that is true.

But the IIHS says

Adrian Lund, of the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, isn't impressed by such claims, saying that "every carmaker advertises that they have the state of the art design" on safety.

But he adds that as long as the imports meet with federal approval "they're not unsafe."

"On the other hand," he says, "they are small and lightweight and cannot protect you" as well as a larger car. "Fatalities are much higher with small, lightweight vehicles."

Parent's plans
Smart USA, which is run out of the Mercedes-Benz USA headquarters in Montvale, N.J., won't have to worry about the size issue with its SUV, dubbed the formore.

But this is the part of your article I like best;

But why doesn't smart itself bring in the smaller cars? It feels a bigger market lies in the small SUV segment, where drivers can get a bit of both worlds. So smart will build a vehicle similar in size to the Toyota RAV4 and Honda CR-V and sell them through 60 Mercedes dealers.

60 mpg dam why don't you get a diesel;

Canadians get diesel versions
Up north, meanwhile, Canadian drivers will get two-seater smart cars starting in September. In fact, they'll have two models to chose from that get around 70 mpg because they're diesels, not gasoline-powered.

The models use what's called common rail diesel, a technology that's cleaner than older diesel engines. The top speed is 75 mph and prices start around $12,100 for the coupe and $15,170 for the cabriolet.

Of cource ;

So what about heading north and bringing a diesel-powered smart back over the border? JoAnne Caza, a Mercedes-Benz spokesperson in Canada, says don't even think about it. "It is not possible since the Canadian car is not certified for sale in the USA," she says.

So buy it you young dumb and full of it, be brave thats what made this country what it is people not affaid to take a chance.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: It would make sense that as a car crumples it will absorb some energy but when you hit a wall you are gonna stop just as quick. I would not want to be in something designed to fold around me.

quote Originally posted by dezie36: You guys seem so dense that you refuse to believe that regular cars absorb the energy from an impact....

Dense ?
Do you even think before you post ? Have you ever heard the saying "measure twice, cut once" ? Do you realize you have ideas which you do not advance, because of your presentation, not spelling, punctuation or grammar. You invite people to shoot them down because of "the world according to Dezzie".

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 10-25-2005).]

quote Originally posted by dezie36: Then I guess you can stop driving anything but a truck... even your loved Fiero. You guys seem so dense that you refuse to believe that regular cars absorb the energy from an impact.... seriously are you guys just ****ing with me? You all cant be this dense... no one is. Which is better a totaled car or a snapped neck? That’s your choice when you pick between a truck and a car… and if a snapped neck means you can believe your right that’s your right as an American… just not a smart one.

Gee funny my Suburban got a five star crash rateing I guess it didn't know it was supposed to kill me, it must not have read that article.

quote Originally posted by dezie36: The Fiero is a perfectly safe car... until its t-boned by a Yukon... then the occupants of the Fiero die. Whose fault is it that they died? Depends on the accident… but in this scenario… lets say the driver of the Fiero is at fault, ran a stop sign… but had the person in the Yukon been in a Neon (or any other small to midsize sedan)… the occupants of the Fiero still wouldn’t have died.

Yeah, and if you T-bone a Geo with your V8 Fiero, the occupants of the Geo Die.

So, with safety your only concern, then not ALL SUVs are on your "bad" list, right? For instance, if your fiance had bought a Grand Cherokee, you'd have been okay with that, because it uses a Unibody, right? The Toyota CR-V & Highlander, the Ford Escape, some years of the Nissan Pathfinder also use the unibody, among others.

[This message has been edited by AndyLPhoto (edited 10-25-2005).]

quote Originally posted by AndyLPhoto: Yeah, and if you T-bone a Geo with your V8 Fiero, the occupants of the Geo Die.

Your also gonna feel dumb right before your smart car runs into something like a concrete bridge pillar.

quote Originally posted by dezie36:

Ther is nothing there to absorb any energy.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Ther is nothing there to absorb any energy.

quote ]Originally from the ZAP web site: The designers of the Smart Car applied simple laws of physics to create a smaller car that takes automotive safety to a whole new level. In a collision, the car reacts in a different way than larger, conventional cars. The spherical geometry of the vehicle’s “tridion safety cell” is an aluminum safety-cage with steel reinforcements that is designed to hold its shape like the crash-cage of a racecar.

Sounds kind of rigid to me. Wonder what would happen if one of these...

was t-boned by one of these, which are should be okay with Dezie, because they are unibody...

Naturally, the occupants of the Grand Cherokee would be killed, because the smart car has a rigid construction, while the Grand Cherokee is on a unibody. Maybe the smart car occupant would suffer a broken neck because there's nothing to absorb the energy other than the occupants. Yeah. That sounds right.

But all this talk about t-bones is making me hungry. I need a nice steak.

Typical.......instead of blaming the larger car for being too big, why don't you blame the smaller car for being too small? When you buy and drive a small car you are accepting the risks associated with that design. How would you like it if someone told you you could not drive your Fiero because they catch on fire, flip over, and then the doors melt shut trapping you inside an upside down burning death trap? You'd tell them to get lost and that they don't know what they are talking about, and to stop messing up your life. Their response - "were just doing this for your own protection, because you obviously need to be protected from your own poor judgement." Dosen't make much sense does it?

quote Originally posted by Chump: Typical.......instead of blaming the larger car for being too big, why don't you blame the smaller car for being too small? When you buy and drive a small car you are accepting the risks associated with that design. How would you like it if someone told you you could not drive your Fiero because they catch on fire, flip over, and then the doors melt shut trapping you inside an upside down burning death trap? You'd tell them to get lost and that they don't know what they are talking about, and to stop messing up your life. Their response - "were just doing this for your own protection, because you obviously need to be protected from your own poor judgement." Dosen't make much sense does it?

Yes I do blame the suc for being too big. Let me state that some of these vehicles are lagitamately on the road. Work trucks, delivery vehicles etc. However the only reason for most of these vehicles to be on the road is to haul around large asses and even larger egos. These vehicles take up too much space on the road, burn too much fuel, produce too much pollution cause too many accidents and their drivers tend to be bullying, inconsiderate asswholes. Spare me the spiel about you having the right to "drive what you want" and all the other excuses. Yes you do have the right to drive an suc but I also have a right to call you an asswhole for doing so. On one hand I wish gas would go to $10 per gallon and force these gas hogging, lumbering behemoths off the road; on the other hand that would hurt the rest of us too. Sooner or later the government is going to decide to do something about them. None of us is going to like the results. We will all have our rights taken away because you abused yours. What a shame.

[This message has been edited by larryemory (edited 10-25-2005).]

quote Originally posted by larryemory: Yes I do blame the suc for being too big. Let me state that some of these vehicles are lagitamately on the road. Work trucks, delivery vehicles etc. However the only reason for most of these vehicles to be on the road is to haul around large asses and even larger egos. These vehicles take up too much space on the road, burn too much fuel, produce too much pollution cause too many accidents and their drivers tend to be bullying, inconsiderate asswholes. Spare me the spiel about you having the right to "drive what you want" and all the other excuses. Yes you do have the right to drive an suc but I also have a right to call you an asswhole for doing so. On one hand I wish gas would go to $10 per gallon and force these gas hogging, lumbering behemoths off the road; on the other hand that would hurt the rest of us too. Sooner or later the government is going to decide to do something about them. None of us is going to like the results. We will all have our rights taken away because you abused yours. What a shame.

So...you may not mind this right being taken away, but I bet there is a right that you currently enjoy that you would miss dearly. What if I took that one away from you because I didn't like it? Would that make me right or wrong? Why do you get to tell me how to live?

quote Originally posted by Patrick: I believe this needs to be posted again... [QUOTE]Originally posted by rogergarrison: I finally managed to get a pic of her with her new 4X4 Ford.

[/QUOTE]

AND everyone, including myself told her she was an IDIOT. A month after she got it, she got pregnant and fired from Hooters for not showing up for work a few times. From others that know her, the truck now sits dead at her parents house because no one can afford to drive it, and she cant sell it because shes way upside down in the loan. Probably be a few years before she pays enough of it down to be able to just sell it. Maybe she could let them repo it and go to a buy here/ pay here. Shes drivng a 15 yo POS Escort now anyway.

edit to add. Just for the sake of argument, someone who says buy whatever you want tell me what reason on earth she would need that for? She dont go offroad, lives in the big city and works as a waitress......Personnaly, I think the dealer that sold it to her should be forced to buy it back for the balance due. Its pretty obvious that they just wanted to make the sale with no requard to anything else, including common sense.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 10-25-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Gordo: ROFLMAO, good one Johnny! It's getting easier to resist the temptation to post because pretty much everything that is worth saying has been said already. The problem here is that somebody isn't listening so.... ...WTF am I doing checking this thread at 3:00am anyway?

I swear, if you're going fast enough, you'll be fine.. Barring the problem of the car flying into pieces of course..

As for the smart car.. I want one just cause it's possibly the ugliest/cutest thing on the road.. THe Echo hatchback was the ugliest thing on the road, but it was never 'cute'.. But now it's not even the ugliEST on the road. It's just ugly.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: ......Personnaly, I think the dealer that sold it to her should be forced to buy it back for the balance due. Its pretty obvious that they just wanted to make the sale with no requard to anything else, including common sense.

When did it become the dealerships job to tell us how to spend our money? What if a dealership would not sell you a Fiero because they catch fire, flip over and melt closed? Or should they just make the sale without regard for your personal safety?

quote Originally posted by Chump: When did it become the dealerships job to tell us how to spend our money? What if a dealership would not sell you a Fiero because they catch fire, flip over and melt closed? Or should they just make the sale without regard for your personal safety?

They have laws regarding guns... who can buy and own them right? Well why cant the same principle apply to cars?

If you live on a farm, work construction then you can have one of these vehicles... other wise you have to pick from the thousands of other cars that are made.

I understand the risks associated with such a small car... does every one understand the dangers associated with the vehicle of their choice? No... in fact after I explained to Sara’s mom how dangerous they where, and she read High and Mighty she sold her explorer and bought a Grand Am.

quote Originally posted by dezie36: They have laws regarding guns... who can buy and own them right? Well why cant the same principle apply to cars? If you live on a farm, work construction then you can have one of these vehicles... other wise you have to pick from the thousands of other cars that are made. I understand the risks associated with such a small car... does every one understand the dangers associated with the vehicle of their choice? No... in fact after I explained to Sara’s mom how dangerous they where, and she read High and Mighty she sold her explorer and bought a Grand Am.

So...acording to your logic, unless you are a race car driver then you can't buy a Corvette.

"If you live on a farm, work construction then you can have one of these vehicles"
Can you imagine the bureaucracy involved in regulating and enforcing theese restrictions (not to mention the money needed). Then you would have those trying to defraud the system and get an SUV illigitametely. They would have to be punished, you would have thousands of otherwise law abiding citizens. And what about those who used to work on a farm or in construction? Would they have to give up the truck or SUV that they already own? Who would keep track of this, and what if they outlawed something that you wanted.

If you look at this sublect rationally, then you would realize that your argument is hopelessly flawed.

[This message has been edited by Chump (edited 10-25-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Chump: So...acording to your logic, unless you are a race car driver then you can't buy a Corvette.

hmm that might be a good idea... after all my mom probably shouldn’t have ever had the Mazda Cosmo, she lost her license 2 times for speeding.

Maybe if you wanted a car like that... you are required to take a 3-week course that teaches you how to drive it right.

Oh and refresher courses every 5 years to maintain the endorsement on your license. Thats really not a bad Idea.... Id do it...

[This message has been edited by dezie36 (edited 10-25-2005).]

Does someone have an animation of a smiley pounding his/her head against the wall?

quote Originally posted by dezie36: hmm that might be a good idea... after all my mom probably shouldn’t have ever had the Mazda Cosmo, she lost her license 2 times for speeding. Maybe if you wanted a car like that... you are required to take a 3-week course that teaches you how to drive it right. Oh and refresher courses every 5 years to maintain the endorsement on your license. Thats really not a bad Idea.... Id do it...

Maybe you have the free time to go through that, but I don't. I have to work for a living.

"after all my mom probably shouldn’t have ever had the Mazda Cosmo, she lost her license 2 times for speeding." um...you can loose you liscense for speeding in a Pinto. What's your point?

I'm glad I don't live anywhere near your very dangerous mother. Definately someone who needs to have her liscense taken away.

[This message has been edited by Chump (edited 10-25-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Chump: Does someone have an animation of a smiley pounding his/her head against the wall?

Wait why is that a bad idea?

1. People in their big ass SUVs... or even their fast ass cars (like me) will be required to learn how to safely operate their vehicles.

That’s right only 1 because that’s the only point and it’s a great point. I guess you don’t like the idea of making people learn how to safely operate their vehicles... I guess one lesson when they are 16 is enough for the next 70 some odd years and covers all the various vehicles that one could possibly ever drive (with the exception of motorcycles and limos)

quote Originally posted by dezie36: If you want to drive your truck you’ll have to make time... I work 45 hours a week plus go to school 25 hours a week. Yup I have so much free time. I have one day a week where I’m not at work or school, or both and that’s usually a Sunday... sometimes it not... but that’s when Id take the class. You don’t want to do it because it would be an inconvenience to you… doesn’t matter how many lives maybe saved by getting people taught how to safely operate their vehicles, cause obviously you don’t care about any one but your self… typical selfish American. My mom lost her license in the 70s... when the Cosmo came out... she has since learned her lesson and doesn’t drive quite a fast car, she’s also never been in an accident that was her fault.

Having a fast car does not make you drive fast. Looks like she learned the wrong lesson.

I work 50 to 60 hours a week and have 3 kids. I spend little enough time with them as is. Using your plan I would get to spend even less.

"and that’s usually a Sunday... sometimes it not... but that’s when Id take the class"
And if the class was not available on Sunday....in fact when is anything available on a sunday? Let's see 3 week class...one day a week....thats almost 4 months......oh wait no it's not, the class would have to be taken all at once. Lets see you get off work for that.

[This message has been edited by Chump (edited 10-25-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Chump: Having a fast car does not make you drive fast. Looks like she learned the wrong lesson. I work 50 to 60 hours a week and have 3 kids. I spend little enough time with them as is. Using your plan I would get to spend even less.

ya for like 1 or 2 weekends... OOOOOOH MYYYY

Chances are it would be more like segment 2 of drivers ed... and would be a much shorter course.
It would be like a 6 hour course over 2 days for 3 hours a day, there would of course be a drivers test to test your skills... maybe you don’t want to do it because your afraid you wouldn’t pass.

[This message has been edited by dezie36 (edited 10-25-2005).]

quote Originally posted by dezie36: Wait why is that a bad idea? 1. People in their big ass SUVs... or even their fast ass cars (like me) will be required to learn how to safely operate their vehicles. That’s right only 1 because that’s the only point and it’s a great point. I guess you don’t like the idea of making people learn how to safely operate their vehicles... I guess one lesson when they are 16 is enough for the next 70 some odd years and covers all the various vehicles that one could possibly ever drive (with the exception of motorcycles and limos)

Its not a bad idea, but its not really feasible either. I've been to a professional driving school several times and it ain't cheap. The cheapest class is $700 per student, and its a one day class. Is it worth it? Absolutely. Can everyone afford it? Yeah right. Can the government afford to put the millions of drivers on the road through even a one day driving school at $700 a pop? Fat chance. Should the DMV have tougher tests and be stricter about giving out licenses? Hell yes. Should Drivers Ed actually teach you something besides how to pass the DMVs easy ass test? Damn right. Good luck changing the world.

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: Its not a bad idea, but its not really feasible either. I've been to a professional driving school several times and it ain't cheap. The cheapest class is $700 per student, and its a one day class. Is it worth it? Absolutely. Can everyone afford it? Yeah right. Can the government afford to put the millions of drivers on the road through even a one day driving school at $700 a pop? Fat chance. Should the DMV have tougher tests and be stricter about giving out licenses? Hell yes. Should Drivers Ed actually teach you something besides how to pass the DMVs easy ass test? Damn right. Good luck changing the world.

Well make it a requirement to own/drive a sports car or SUV... can a guy who just bought a V-8 Fiero afford that? How about the guy who just bought a Cadillac Escalade? Or the guy who just bought a Z06? I say yes they can.
And if that’s what they want to drive they have to take the course... that simple... its a great idea... I’m going to write my senator.

I mean if you want to drive a limo you have to take a course… if you want to drive a motorcycle you have to take a course… if you want to drive at all you have to take 2 courses… so I say if you want to drive a sports car or SUV you have to take a course.

Any way I’m off to further my education (900$ a class).

[This message has been edited by dezie36 (edited 10-25-2005).]

Let's have a course on how to use a toaster....I mean if you put a fork in one you could get hurt, or something.

quote Originally posted by Chump: Let's have a course on how to use a toaster....I mean if you put a fork in one you could get hurt, or something.

I hardly think you can compare a toaster to a 6000lb vehicle... or a 255hp vehicle.

So, Deezie, how much mid-engine or even high performance specific training have YOU had so that you can have an endorsement to drive your V8 Fiero? You said you'd do it, so how much have you had?

Me? I've been to Skip Barber's school, Danny McKeever's fastlane, 2 SCCA HPDE's, and have been to three Evolution autocross schools. I also have a CDL with endorsements for combinations, air brakes, and all the rest except school bus and hazmat. We won't go into the pilot certificates unless you really want to.

So, is it OK with you if I drive the Finale, my race car, my semi, and my Scout now? Is it? Please?

John ( as if I really cared if he gives permission ) Stricker

quote Originally posted by dezie36: Wait why is that a bad idea? 1. People in their big ass SUVs... or even their fast ass cars (like me) will be required to learn how to safely operate their vehicles. That’s right only 1 because that’s the only point and it’s a great point. I guess you don’t like the idea of making people learn how to safely operate their vehicles... I guess one lesson when they are 16 is enough for the next 70 some odd years and covers all the various vehicles that one could possibly ever drive (with the exception of motorcycles and limos)

quote Originally posted by Chump: Let's have a course on how to use a toaster....I mean if you put a fork in one you could get hurt, or something.

$500 a day, 2 week minimum.

Chill everyone, just chill haha. I bought my motorcycle because a.) It is as fast as ****, b.) It gets increadible gas mileage, c.) It is what I WANTED. Now do you see me going around saying, "Hey! You guys need to quit driving Fieros because if we ever crashed, the impact would unfairly affect me!"

No. That is an absurd request - different vehicles serve different purposes.

If I walked up to the local sport track and told all the guys with 100k vipers that they really did not need those cars, they were just wasting fuel, you can only drive 55 on the street, etc... I would get laughed out of the stands.

The point is, Americans do take for granted things like environmental pollution from emmisions due to flagrant use of motorvehicles but unfortunately, our current laws and social climate allow this to happen. I do agree somewhat with what dezie36 is getting at. It would be nice if they had HOV type lanes for motorcycles, smart cars, and lesser menacing vehicles, but that is just a pipedream really. Huge menacing 18 wheelers, gas and diesel hog pickup trucks, SUVs, and cars are here to stay in the US due to the distributed nature of American cities and the need for such transportation of goods and people. Besides, it is what people WANT to drive that moves them to buy a Fiero, 4X4, or SUV. And what people want, they will figure out a way to get either by petitioning their representatives or paying through the nose for fuel to feed their monstor... Ouch $4.00 gas... Glad I don't WANT an SUV.

--Will

P.S. I drive a 2005 Chevy Crew Cab 4X4 Duramax Diesel for work when I haul stuff so I can relate to the 10 mpg Viper guys.

------------------
My Cardomain Website: BLACKHEART FIERO

[This message has been edited by Will-Martin (edited 10-25-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Chump: Does someone have an animation of a smiley pounding his/her head against the wall?

Will this do?

quote Originally posted by Will-Martin: ...paying through the nose for fuel to feed their monstor... Ouch $4.00 gas...

Saw $2.36 on the way home from work tonght. It's dropping like a stone.

Just think guys some day this guy and others like him and Wichita are going to be running this country. Doesn't that scare you just a little? It scares me that anyonr can read one book and belive its contents to such a degree that they don't research it any further than that.
What scares me even more is that he has enuf money to buy a V8 Fiero, and go to school, and be an absolute A$$hole. All at the same time.
You know what I say, we should Make it a law so that people like dezie36 need to pass a test to be able to have children. That way we don't have to worry about him ever haveing children and inflicting his worped, twisted, idiotic, incompitant, unsubstantiated ideas on them.
I'ld vote for that law.

Save
vehicles Vehicle Frontal Star Rating
based on risk of head & chest injury Side Star Rating
based on risk of chest injury Rollover Rating
Driver Passenger Front Seat Rear Seat 2 wheel drive 4 wheel drive

2005 Chevrolet Suburban 1500 4-DR. w/updated ESC (SUV) 4 Star Not rated Not rated
2005 Buick Terraza (Later Release) (Van) Not rated 5 Star
2005 Chrysler Town & Country LWB Later Release (Van) 5 Star
2005 Dodge Grand Caravan Later Release (Van) 5 Star
2005 Ford Freestar (Van) 5 Star

Those were the crash rateings for new 2005 Suburban and mini vans. Crash tests are done with new cars and trucks against a concrete block, I would say thats just a little harder than the front end of an SUV.
Your opinions dezie36 are not based in fact, just what you read from one book by one person. Who by the way is just some reporter who wrote one book.
Do some reserch before rant and rave about something.

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 10-25-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Will-Martin: Chill everyone, just chill haha. I bought my motorcycle because a.) It is as fast as ****, b.) It gets increadible gas mileage, c.) It is what I WANTED. Now do you see me going around saying, "Hey! You guys need to quit driving Fieros because if we ever crashed, the impact would unfairly affect me!" No. That is an absurd request - different vehicles serve different purposes. If I walked up to the local sport track and told all the guys with 100k vipers that they really did not need those cars, they were just wasting fuel, you can only drive 55 on the street, etc... I would get laughed out of the stands. The point is, Americans do take for granted things like environmental pollution from emmisions due to flagrant use of motorvehicles but unfortunately, our current laws and social climate allow this to happen. I do agree somewhat with what dezie36 is getting at. It would be nice if they had HOV type lanes for motorcycles, smart cars, and lesser menacing vehicles, but that is just a pipedream really. Huge menacing 18 wheelers, gas and diesel hog pickup trucks, SUVs, and cars are here to stay in the US due to the distributed nature of American cities and the need for such transportation of goods and people. Besides, it is what people WANT to drive that moves them to buy a Fiero, 4X4, or SUV. And what people want, they will figure out a way to get either by petitioning their representatives or paying through the nose for fuel to feed their monstor... Ouch $4.00 gas... Glad I don't WANT an SUV. --Will P.S. I drive a 2005 Chevy Crew Cab 4X4 Duramax Diesel for work when I haul stuff so I can relate to the 10 mpg Viper guys.

If I remember my history correctly, you can thank the Big 3 for most of that. IIRC, they did a huge amount of lobbying to Congress in the '30s to get them to approve a national highway system instead of mass transit like rail roads and such. So, we have freeways going every which way and not much in the way of passenger trains. Europe went the other way. Good for them, since they pay like 3 times what we do for gas. Not saying Europe is perfect or anything, but I think they may have picked the better option. They still have lots of roads and make some of the fastest cars in the world, but they also have lots of alternatives to driving.

quote Originally posted by dezie36: If you want to drive your truck you’ll have to make time... I work 45 hours a week plus go to school 25 hours a week. Yup I have so much free time. I have one day a week where I’m not at work or school, or both and that’s usually a Sunday... sometimes it not... but that’s when Id take the class. You don’t want to do it because it would be an inconvenience to you… doesn’t matter how many lives maybe saved by getting people taught how to safely operate their vehicles, cause obviously you don’t care about any one but your self… typical selfish American.

So, have YOU taken the NHTSA defensive driving course yet? You don't even have to wait, as I'm sure that it's being offered in a town near you right now. It only costs you a couple evenings. It teaches you that most accidents are AVOIDABLE if you think ahead, use some common sense, keep your distance and observe the other guy.

This thread has gone on long enough. I don't believe that adding laws, legislation and the associated taxes to support and enforce them is the answer to everything. I don't wish to live in a country where the government takes total control, levels the playing field and forces it's own model of equality on the general population, comrade. It's a whole lot better when people are encouraged to take responsibility for themselves. Not everybody else in the world is a "dirt bag" you know.

If you want to live longer on the highway, take the course already!

As for the original topic of this thread, Yeah, I like that little car. It’s cute and it looks like it would be loads of fun to drive around town but, it’s overpriced and I wouldn’t take it up on a highway any more than I would ride a bicycle or a Segway there, even if I was the only car on the road. I also bet that it would spin like a top in the snow.