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Why I Americans by dezie36
Started on: 10-23-2005 11:05 AM
Replies: 283
Last post by: FieroMojo on 10-27-2005 11:21 AM
84fiero123
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Report this Post10-25-2005 10:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Direct Link to This Post
WOW I OWN PAGE 6 NOW I GOT TO STICK AROUND!
and it's the 200th post cool.


 
quote
Originally posted by fogglethorpe:


Will this do?

works for me! He has driven me nuts long enuf.

------------------
technology is great when it works
and one big pain in the ass when it doesnt.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 10-25-2005).]

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dezie36
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Report this Post10-25-2005 10:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dezie36Send a Private Message to dezie36Direct Link to This Post
http://money.cnn.com/2003/01/15/pf/autos/SUV_safety/
http://money.cnn.com/2003/01/15/news/suvs/index.htm
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2003-03/ns-ast030503.php
http://work.colum.edu/~amiller/suvsuck/suvsuck.htm
http://home.houston.rr.com/rreid/info/suv.html
http://www.suv.org/safety.html
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0221-06.htm
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/transportation/62071_truck13.shtml
http://www.cei.org/gencon/023,03227.cfm

I believe these links speak for themselves (some biased, and some are just reporting letting you make your own decision which you know I’ve already made).

You talk about personal responsibility yet I know people in SUVs who get into accidents and say "oh they were in my blind spot" or "oh he stopped to fast" or "it was wet out and I couldn’t stop"

SO they blamed the car, the other driver and the weather... not themselves... hmmm.

Again if I’ve never been an accident that I was at fault for... and only one of them was when I was actually driving the car (rear ended by a motorcyclist)... I’d say I’m a pretty defensive driver... and that class is not required to allow me to drive my Fiero...
Now if it became law that any car with over 255hp (not that I was referring to just the new corvette when I gave that number, its actually how many HP I have) required an endorsement I would take the class that allowed me to drive the car... I’d also probably ***** about it as well but I’d do it because the inconvenience of the class out weighs my desire to drive my Fiero.

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Gordo
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Report this Post10-25-2005 11:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GordoSend a Private Message to GordoDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dezie36:
You talk about personal responsibility yet I know people in SUVs who get into accidents and say "oh they were in my blind spot" or "oh he stopped to fast" or "it was wet out and I couldn’t stop"

I'm not talking about the other guy, I'm talking about you. The only person that you can change is yourself. Defensive driving teaches youto stay out of other peoples blind spots.

 
quote
Originally posted by dezie36:
SO they blamed the car, the other driver and the weather... not themselves... hmmm.

Once again, I repeat myself cause you just don't get it...
I'm not talking about the other guy, I'm talking about you. The only person that you can change is yourself.

 
quote
Originally posted by dezie36:
Again if I’ve never been an accident that I was at fault for... and only one of them was when I was actually driving the car (rear ended by a motorcyclist)... I’d say I’m a pretty defensive driver... and that class is not required to allow me to drive my Fiero...

Now all of a sudden, you don't have the time to take the course or maybe you're a perfect driver already at the tender age of 21? I'm not talking about FAULT, could you have AVOIDED it if you were more observant.

Stop making excuses by blaming the other guy and try to improve yourself. Take the darned course.

[This message has been edited by Gordo (edited 10-25-2005).]

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dezie36
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Report this Post10-25-2005 11:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dezie36Send a Private Message to dezie36Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gordo:


Now all of a sudden, you don't have the time to take the course or maybe you're a perfect driver already at the tender age of 21? I'm not talking about FAULT, could you have AVOIDED it if you were more observant.

Stop making excuses by blaming the other guy and try to improve yourself. Take the darned course.

Fine I will... ill find out when they offer the next course... and btw there is no way I could have avoided the accident, I was at a red light with people on either side of me and one in front of me, I had a cars length between me and the guy in front of me... and when I looked behind me and saw this motorcycle not stopping I pulled forward as far as I could with out hitting that guy... and she still crashed into my tail gate (my minivan) and landed in my back seat... I tried to avoid the accident but alas I wasn’t on the side of the street where I could have pulled into the dirt...which I have done before to avoid being rear-ended.

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maryjane
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Report this Post10-25-2005 11:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
You talk about personal responsibility yet I know people in SUVs who get into accidents and say "oh they were in my blind spot" or "oh he stopped to fast" or "it was wet out and I couldn’t stop"

Which, I believe from 38 yrs of driving experience, seeing many accidents, and talking to probably scores of people who have been involved in accidents, is pretty much the same reasons/excuses drivers of all kinds of vehicles use when they've had an accident. There's nothing there that is only SUV specific Dezie. I've seen the same excuses posted here from people who have had accidents in Fieros.
btw, I've got more than 3 decades worth of driving experience on you, and have only been involved in one accident, which also was not my fault, (cow related) and more than 1/4 million miles of that was in an SUV. And, I have only lived out here in the low traffic wasteland for about a decade. Spent a year living in Chicago suburbs, 2-3 yrs in Memphis, and spent my teenage driving years in the Houston area, so I do know a little about heavy traffic driving.

I don't know when you started driving, but for the sake of argument, let's say you got behind the wheel at 14 yrs of age (which isn't unheard of in rural/farm areas-whether legal or not). You are now 21. That equals 7 yrs of driving experience. IF you've been involved in more than 2 accidents where you were the driver, that isn't a really great defensive driving record imo. Defensive driving means a person is aware enough of the action around them that they can react in time to avoid being hit by another vhicle, keep enough spacing between themselves and other vehcles to give them a braking edge, avoid accelerating when it isn't neccessary (yes, it's fun,but it burns gas un-necessarily, and detracts from virtually everyone's defensive abilitiies) and always knows where every other vehicle is in their close proximity. Obviously, no one can always be good enough or alert enough to never have an accident, but it behooves us all to at least try.

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Gordo
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Report this Post10-25-2005 11:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GordoSend a Private Message to GordoDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dezie36:


Fine I will... ill find out when they offer the next course... and btw there is no way I could have avoided the accident, I was at a red light with people on either side of me and one in front of me, I had a cars length between me and the guy in front of me... and when I looked behind me and saw this motorcycle not stopping I pulled forward as far as I could with out hitting that guy... and she still crashed into my tail gate (my minivan) and landed in my back seat... I tried to avoid the accident but alas I wasn’t on the side of the street where I could have pulled into the dirt...which I have done before to avoid being rear-ended.

That's fine. Sometimes there is just no way to avoid the inevitable. It's part of living in this imperfect world however, I applaud your decision to take the course. After driving for 30 years, I still found it interesting and refreshing. We had a great instuctor and we all discussed some of the topics covered in this thread.

I know that you already hold yourself to some high standards, that's fine. The best way to change the world is to always try to improve yourself. If you are a fighter, others will fight you . If you are a leader, others will follow.

Good night.

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84fiero123
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Report this Post10-25-2005 11:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:


Which, I believe from 38 yrs of driving experience, seeing many accidents, and talking to probably scores of people who have been involved in accidents, is pretty much the same reasons/excuses drivers of all kinds of vehicles use when they've had an accident. There's nothing there that is only SUV specific Dezie. I've seen the same excuses posted here from people who have had accidents in Fieros.
btw, I've got more than 3 decades worth of driving experience on you, and have only been involved in one accident, which also was not my fault, (cow related) and more than 1/4 million miles of that was in an SUV. And, I have only lived out here in the low traffic wasteland for about a decade. Spent a year living in Chicago suburbs, 2-3 yrs in Memphis, and spent my teenage driving years in the Houston area, so I do know a little about heavy traffic driving.

I don't know when you started driving, but for the sake of argument, let's say you got behind the wheel at 14 yrs of age (which isn't unheard of in rural/farm areas-whether legal or not). You are now 21. That equals 7 yrs of driving experience. IF you've been involved in more than 2 accidents where you were the driver, that isn't a really great defensive driving record imo. Defensive driving means a person is aware enough of the action around them that they can react in time to avoid being hit by another vhicle, keep enough spacing between themselves and other vehcles to give them a braking edge, avoid accelerating when it isn't neccessary (yes, it's fun,but it burns gas un-necessarily, and detracts from virtually everyone's defensive abilitiies) and always knows where every other vehicle is in their close proximity. Obviously, no one can always be good enough or alert enough to never have an accident, but it behooves us all to at least try.

Cant agree with you more maryjane I myself have 33 years of legal driveing under my belt and only 1 accident and that was my fault young dumb and full of it. Over 1,000,000 miles of accident free driveing at a guess but i'm sure its more. and like you many miles in an SUV, in Boston, Nashville, and everywhere in between. ever 50,000 in an 18 wheeler in Massachusetts. Now if that is not defensive driveing I don't know what is.
What this guys problem is he just doesn't like other people driveing anything larger than what he drives or is afraid of the larger vehicles. My wife when i met her 20+ years ago was driveing a Chevette, Now loves the Burb but has never been in an accident with it. Started with an 86 Burban in 89 and just got the 94 last year and still as of yet not been in an accident with any of them.

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Report this Post10-26-2005 12:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneDirect Link to This Post
Yep, I was going to try a guess at how many miles I've driven, but it's been too many yrs to even attempt that.
One of the big problems with statistics regarding SUVs is they don't correlate drivingexprience "in type", that is, in that particular type vehicle. Obviously, if a person has spent their driving yrs behind a sedan, or econobox, they are in for a rude surprise if they aren't very careful, and I think this is one of the big problems with those type vehicles and their drivers. The SUV drivers try to drive them just like everything else they've ever driven, and you can't do it. You can't drive one vehicle the same way you can another, and more importantly, you have to know that when you get behind the wheel. Anyone who blames an accident on a vehicle needs to look in the mirror. An SUV or Suburban type vehicle can be just as safe (or more so)as any other vehicle as long as the driver knows what he/she is doing. From my personal experience, I know many people who drive SUVs, and honestly can't remember any of them having an accident. Most of the accidents I've seen are speed, deer, or negligence related, and I can tell you that West Texas is chock full of SUVs.

Dezie appears to harbor a dislike for anyone not like him. The trashcaned thread, this thread, the bass music thread are indicitive of this. When the need is cost effective enough for the type vehicle he wants imported to make it over here, it will happen. Americans have different needs than European drivers. Even with all our cities, we still have large expanses of open areas-and all you have to do is fly cross country in a non commercial airplane to see this. We want to be very comfortable(most of us), in large vehicles. We like our kids to have plenty of room, perhaps to even lay down and take a nap. We want to be able to take the pets along. We want to have room for gifts to take to our far off relatives when we go. Nothing fits that like an SUV. We don't want to drive around cramped up, and have to choose, "well, we have room for this, but that will have to stay behind". The man may want to go out to a remote lake, like I did when I had the Cherokee. Truthfully, a van, sedan, and even a 2 wheel drive light truck wouldn't get me there.

There's a huge segment of the population that would ban all performance vehicles if they could, and many say Americans love of performance prevents them from buying high MPG and energy efficent cars, because the manufactorers are determined to design and sell what America predominantly wants. ow would Dezie feel if it was suddenly decided that anything over 100 hp was outlawed, just because thatsegment of the population had better lobbying power in congress? Right now, Americans want leisurely driving, the feeling ofbeing ina safe vehicle, & that = room, weight, and performance. That may change if fuel continues it's upward spiral, but for the foreseeable future, it isn't going to happen that eco boxes will make a big comeback.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 10-26-2005).]

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Report this Post10-26-2005 12:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnnyKSend a Private Message to JohnnyKDirect Link to This Post
[devilsadvocate] Errr, I'm sure to SOME point driving 'skill' increases with age,but I'm willing to bet that starts to drop off dramatically in the late 30's.. Experience, with all things being equal, would obviously equal more skill, but as experience increases, so does age.. Not saying 21 is the epitomy of driving skill of course, but.. I'm not going to say a 90 year old will out drive a 16 year old..[/devilsadvocate]
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Report this Post10-26-2005 01:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnnyK:

[devilsadvocate] Errr, I'm sure to SOME point driving 'skill' increases with age,but I'm willing to bet that starts to drop off dramatically in the late 30's.. Experience, with all things being equal, would obviously equal more skill, but as experience increases, so does age.. Not saying 21 is the epitomy of driving skill of course, but.. I'm not going to say a 90 year old will out drive a 16 year old..[/devilsadvocate]


In the late 30s? On a professional level--maybe a little, but overall I would think the downhill age happens at "about" twice that age, and insurance costs prove that. People under 30, for the most part, get more tickets, and have more accidents than any other age group. That's why the rates for people under 30 are almost always more than the older drivers. The other part of that is skill vs knowledge and experience. A younger person may have the skill to drive fast and dangerous, but older people usually have the knowledge or sense to know not to drive like that, and the experience to handle itif more aggressive driving becomes a neccesity. Now, once you reach the geriatric years, another variable comes to play and that is mental awareness and reaction time. I cringe everytime I get in a vehicle with my 87 yr old father, and truely will be glad if the driver lisense dept denies him a license next time around. To my knowledge, he's only had one wreck in his life, but he's one waiting to happen now.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 10-26-2005).]

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Report this Post10-26-2005 01:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sostockSend a Private Message to sostockDirect Link to This Post
very good post MJ. and Johnny, i think of driving quality as kind of a bell curve. when you are young you have the skills but not the experince. when you get older you have the experince but not the skills. hey wait, i guess that's not a bell curve, more like an X. i think you have to be a lot older than late 30's to start losing reaction time however.
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Report this Post10-26-2005 02:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dezie36Send a Private Message to dezie36Direct Link to This Post
Dude... I don’t know what planet your all living on but in my personal experience yes I know its only 7 years of driving ( I began my drivers ed courses and got my learners permit at 14) but by the time your 30 you’ve gotten your self into some very bad, bad habits. Id wager you have a couple nasty habits. In fact I’d be open to a little wager, when I get my vacation time next summer I’ll come to where ever you are, and we'll set up a road course similar to that we both had in drivers ed. Then we will each take the car or light truck of our choosing and run the course. The course will include figure 8, parallel parking, backing up and parking, pulling in on a horizontal and parking, sharp left and right turns. Id be willing to wager I’ll do much better... know what also we should do is have a certified driving instructor drive with each of us and do as he says (basically go through a drivers test), I’m willing to bet here I’ll do much better as well.

Its not your fault... its your age, it just happens with age. Your reaction time slows, your self confidence greatly increases, and this is a deadly combination and is only a matter of time till it has its ill effects shown to you... only question is are you going to be driving the Fiero and hurt no one (except maybe a couple of bruises) or are you going to be driving the burb and kill someone?

And for the record yes I have trouble with people unlike my self... as you obviously do as well... I don’t know any one who really likes those with opposing views from them self... and to say you don’t would make you a liar.
I only associate my self with like-minded individuals, which include white, black, and Mexican, young, old, male and female (people from all races and cultures).
These people feel about many subjects that we’ve discussed here and other threads as I do. As scary as it is for you many in my generation and yours feel the same as me, I am not alone.

[This message has been edited by dezie36 (edited 10-26-2005).]

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Report this Post10-26-2005 02:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneDirect Link to This Post
Exactly when did this disscussion turn to racing or road courses? No, I do not have much trouble dealing with people who have different views than I hold. I believe in live & let live. I started out my adult life in the military, which means I was interacting with people from all over the globe at your age, and learned early on we all are different and each has a right to our own opinions.

I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, based on your age and immaturity, (which has been pointed out to by virtually everyone posting here---with so many pointing that out to you, do you think there may possibly be something to it?) , but like most who have posted here, I now honestly believe you have some deep seated problems you really need to address. The world's not out to do you in Dezie, so quit acting like it, but go back and read your threads. There's a reason you got so much flack in your dog pee thread, and there's a reason your other thread is in the trash can. You've been offered some good advice in this thread, but have spurned it all, in favor of your own young ego. You called a man "Immature" that has been an honest, successful, businessman for decades, has raised his family to your age, and is one of the most active and generous people in the Fiero community. His word alone is better than any legal contract. You, who doesn't even know what he wants to do with his life yet, calling a grown man "immature", simply because he offered you some good advice that stuck in your egotistical craw. -not just once-but on several occassions. I have just a few more words for you.
Grow up "Dude".
You may possibly be the oldest child I've ever had any dealings with. And it has very little to do with your physical age. I truely feel sympathy for you.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 10-26-2005).]

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Report this Post10-26-2005 06:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GordoSend a Private Message to GordoDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

Exactly when did this disscussion turn to racing or road courses? No, I do not have much trouble dealing with people who have different views than I hold. I believe in live & let live. I started out my adult life in the military, which means I was interacting with people from all over the globe at your age, and learned early on we all are different and each has a right to our own opinions.

I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, based on your age and immaturity, (which has been pointed out to by virtually everyone posting here---with so many pointing that out to you, do you think there may possibly be something to it?) , but like most who have posted here, I now honestly believe you have some deep seated problems you really need to address. The world's not out to do you in Dezie, so quit acting like it, but go back and read your threads. There's a reason you got so much flack in your dog pee thread, and there's a reason your other thread is in the trash can. You've been offered some good advice in this thread, but have spurned it all, in favor of your own young ego. You called a man "Immature" that has been an honest, successful, businessman for decades, has raised his family to your age, and is one of the most active and generous people in the Fiero community. His word alone is better than any legal contract. You, who doesn't even know what he wants to do with his life yet, calling a grown man "immature", simply because he offered you some good advice that stuck in your egotistical craw. -not just once-but on several occassions. I have just a few more words for you.
Grow up "Dude".
You may possibly be the oldest child I've ever had any dealings with. And it has very little to do with your physical age. I truely feel sympathy for you.

Very well said...

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84fiero123
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Report this Post10-26-2005 07:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dezie36:

Dude... I don’t know what planet your all living on but in my personal experience yes I know its only 7 years of driving ( I began my drivers ed courses and got my learners permit at 14) but by the time your 30 you’ve gotten your self into some very bad, bad habits. Id wager you have a couple nasty habits. In fact I’d be open to a little wager, when I get my vacation time next summer I’ll come to where ever you are, and we'll set up a road course similar to that we both had in drivers ed. Then we will each take the car or light truck of our choosing and run the course. The course will include figure 8, parallel parking, backing up and parking, pulling in on a horizontal and parking, sharp left and right turns. Id be willing to wager I’ll do much better... know what also we should do is have a certified driving instructor drive with each of us and do as he says (basically go through a drivers test), I’m willing to bet here I’ll do much better as well.

Its not your fault... its your age, it just happens with age. Your reaction time slows, your self confidence greatly increases, and this is a deadly combination and is only a matter of time till it has its ill effects shown to you... only question is are you going to be driving the Fiero and hurt no one (except maybe a couple of bruises) or are you going to be driving the burb and kill someone?

And for the record yes I have trouble with people unlike my self... as you obviously do as well... I don’t know any one who really likes those with opposing views from them self... and to say you don’t would make you a liar.
I only associate my self with like-minded individuals, which include white, black, and Mexican, young, old, male and female (people from all races and cultures).
These people feel about many subjects that we’ve discussed here and other threads as I do. As scary as it is for you many in my generation and yours feel the same as me, I am not alone.

So by your rules you are on the down side of your peek as far as driveing goes. Wow and the insurance industry gives people your age the highest rates because your reactions are so good right? As far as your bet goes that is just plain dumb, but I tell you what. If thats what it takes to make you see the stupidity of your statements I'll go you one better.
You get your lightning fast reaction times up here in Feb, and I'll take your challege, I have the SUV, Fiero, Pickup truck, and I'll even borrow a bike and we will drive, just drive from my house, in the country into Augusta, the state capital trade vehicle and then do the return trip in the other vehicle. Then if you make it back alive we will do your road course, and see who is the better driver, but you must drive each vehicle at least one way 50 miles. Drivers courses are not the real world, that is not what we have to deal with.We have to deal with the unknowns. The random deer, moose, 70 year old, crossing the road, and then those 17 to 21 year olds who feel they can react in any situation better than some one who has more experiance.
The thing is you have to drive each vehicle, and i have to drive each vehicle back and forth on the road to and from my house to Augusta, only about 50 miles each way, no highway driveing. Just regular driveing on everything from back country roads, state roads, discontinude roads, big city roads, and little village roads.
Then if you still think you are a better driver we will go on to your driveing test.
You are not unlike I was at your age, Young dumb and full of it, but at your age I had driven everything from 2 to 18 wheels, driven in road rallies in over 300 hp 60's sports car and been in 1 accident, my fault.
Yes reaction time slows as you age, thats why the military only uses young people in the service, but the men and women who train these young people are my age with the experience and smarts that age brings. I tell you what if you pass my test and I pass your test. We will then take reaction tests. The vehicle you drive has as much to do with the way you drive as anything else if you are driveing a 300 hp firebird you can drive that in a road rally vource a lot better than an SUV. But can you drive that same 300 hp Firebird as well in 6" of snow as well as you can the SUV? Different vehicles have different ways of reacting in different situations. Now tell me you can handle your Fiero as well in 6" of snow as well as I can drive my Suburban?


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Report this Post10-26-2005 07:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for larryemorySend a Private Message to larryemoryDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Chump:

So...you may not mind this right being taken away, but I bet there is a right that you currently enjoy that you would miss dearly. What if I took that one away from you because I didn't like it? Would that make me right or wrong? Why do you get to tell me how to live?

You need to work on your reading comprehension. I DO NOT advocate outlawing sucs. I said because so many people abuse their rights in this matter they will surely be taken away. Is that what you want? I don't. When enough people get fed up with these lumbering behemoths and the high fuel prices they cause, some pandering politicians will pass laws NONE of us will like to "solve" the problem.

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Report this Post10-26-2005 08:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for larryemorySend a Private Message to larryemoryDirect Link to This Post

larryemory

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quote
Originally posted by Chump:

So who gets to be the arbiter of what is legitimate?


That is EXACTLY my point. A bunch of politicians will decide. None of us will like the results.
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Report this Post10-26-2005 08:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AndyLPhotoClick Here to visit AndyLPhoto's HomePageSend a Private Message to AndyLPhotoDirect Link to This Post
Great posts, maryjane. Very well said. Thank you for being levelheaded, thoughtful, and bringing a voice of experience to this thread.

Gotta save this classic little gem though...

 
quote
Originally posted by dezie36:
Its not your fault... its your age, it just happens with age.

BTW Dezie, I'm only 34, but obviously my driving skills have been slipping for the past four years, so I'd be no match for you behind the wheel, and I live a few hours closer to you than maryjane. If you'd like to spend your vacation north of the Mackinac Bridge and show someone up, you just give me a call. Make a week out of it and you can see some beautiful country up here. After we do the road test & figure 8, I'll arrange some off-roading, and driving a course through the local area here. Better yet, make it February or March, and maybe we'll have a good snow storm to really test our skills. You can bet I'll be in the Explorer in that case.

You arrange the track, road tests and instructor, and I'll be happy to meet you there. I'll even use my SUV if you'd like. Since I don't live on a farm, I don't have a good reason to own one, so I probably don't know how to drive it properly either.

[This message has been edited by AndyLPhoto (edited 10-26-2005).]

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Report this Post10-26-2005 08:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for larryemorySend a Private Message to larryemoryDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dezie36:

Its not your fault... its your age, it just happens with age. Your reaction time slows, your self confidence greatly increases, and this is a deadly combination and is only a matter of time till it has its ill effects shown to you... only question is are you going to be driving the Fiero and hurt no one (except maybe a couple of bruises) or are you going to be driving the burb and kill someone?


Baloney. Unless you have some specific illness, or fail to keep yourself fit you will be able to perform well into later life. I just turned 60. Last season I won several stock car races. All the competition was under 30. You win races with your brain not your reflexes. Same for driving on the street. I'm a better driver than I have ever been. Better judgement comes with age and experience. Over confidence tends to come more, but not exclusivly, with youth.
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Report this Post10-26-2005 08:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofetishSend a Private Message to fierofetishDirect Link to This Post
I would like to make one small point here, if I may. I don't believe for one minute, that a vehicle which uses a lot more fuel will increase the price of fuel at all. The point I am trying to make is this. If everybody used high-mpg vehicles, and thus used less fuel, the prices would rise. Supply and demand. If the amount of fuel consumed daily drops, so does the revenue to the Oil Companies..and so they would put the price up to maintain their profit levels.By way of explanation: Shell sell 10.000.000 gallons of gas in an area every week. People change overnight to small low consumption vehicles, reducing their consumption by, say, 10%. The profit taken will also drop by 10%..and the amount of fuel consumed will then become 9 million.and they will have to try to make the same profit on 9 million as ten...so they raise the price of gas to cover it by an appropriate amount.If the opposite happens, and they sell more because everybody uses more, they can afford to drop the price, although not by the same amount, and thereby making a bigger profit than before. I hope this makes sense. After all, I am sure there are behind-the-scenes deals made between Motor Manufacturers and fuel Companies..You make bigger cars that use more gas, and we will reciprocate by investing in your Company
Nick


 
quote
Originally posted by larryemory:


You need to work on your reading comprehension. I DO NOT advocate outlawing sucs. I said because so many people abuse their rights in this matter they will surely be taken away. Is that what you want? I don't. When enough people get fed up with these lumbering behemoths and the high fuel prices they cause, some pandering politicians will pass laws NONE of us will like to "solve" the problem.

------------------
fierofetish.PFF'S self-confessed Snowbird!!

Responsibility: the solution for our World's Dilemmas..
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[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 10-26-2005).]

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Report this Post10-26-2005 09:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Chump:

So...acording to your logic, unless you are a race car driver then you can't buy a Corvette.

"If you live on a farm, work construction then you can have one of these vehicles"
Can you imagine the bureaucracy involved in regulating and enforcing theese restrictions (not to mention the money needed). Then you would have those trying to defraud the system and get an SUV illigitametely. They would have to be punished, you would have thousands of otherwise law abiding citizens. And what about those who used to work on a farm or in construction? Would they have to give up the truck or SUV that they already own? Who would keep track of this, and what if they outlawed something that you wanted. In most states they also have tags for vehicles used in business called ' commercial ' They can ticket you for using it for non business driving. I had a custom van with all the required equipment to be tagged as a 'Motor Home' and I was ticketed one time for using it to move my stuff when i moved to a new apartment.

If you look at this sublect rationally, then you would realize that your argument is hopelessly flawed.

Im an ex- race driver so I can own a Corvette, lol. Mine is due to a variety of reasons. Most of my friends own them and Id like one to be in the club to hang out with them. It gets great gas milage, wont rust driving in the winter, looks cool and occasionally I like a convertible ride. I also work on a lot of vettes, so it reflects some cheap advertising for me. I dont have it to cruise around and brag to pick up women. A LOT of vette owners shouldnt be in them either....some of them are as big an idiot as some of the SUVers. A lot of typicaly street driven vettes arent very powerful....a lot less than horsepower of some medium size 4 doors around. I think mine is around 250-275.

I dont know about now, but when I was in Oklahoma, they did have special cheap tags you got for your farm pickup or vehicle. You had to use it for farm related business or if you got caught driving it for any other reason, you got fined and lost the tag. Truck tag for other trucks was much higher to discourage everyday street driving. My in-laws had such a pickup and the tag was like $5 @ year. A friend at the base drove a new pickup for a daily driver and his tag was several hundred dollars.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 10-26-2005).]

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Report this Post10-26-2005 09:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dezie36Send a Private Message to dezie36Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

Exactly when did this disscussion turn to racing or road courses? No, I do not have much trouble dealing with people who have different views than I hold. I believe in live & let live. I started out my adult life in the military, which means I was interacting with people from all over the globe at your age, and learned early on we all are different and each has a right to our own opinions.

I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, based on your age and immaturity, (which has been pointed out to by virtually everyone posting here---with so many pointing that out to you, do you think there may possibly be something to it?) , but like most who have posted here, I now honestly believe you have some deep seated problems you really need to address. The world's not out to do you in Dezie, so quit acting like it, but go back and read your threads. There's a reason you got so much flack in your dog pee thread, and there's a reason your other thread is in the trash can. You've been offered some good advice in this thread, but have spurned it all, in favor of your own young ego. You called a man "Immature" that has been an honest, successful, businessman for decades, has raised his family to your age, and is one of the most active and generous people in the Fiero community. His word alone is better than any legal contract. You, who doesn't even know what he wants to do with his life yet, calling a grown man "immature", simply because he offered you some good advice that stuck in your egotistical craw. -not just once-but on several occassions. I have just a few more words for you.
Grow up "Dude".
You may possibly be the oldest child I've ever had any dealings with. And it has very little to do with your physical age. I truely feel sympathy for you.

Its not a race... lets get that straight, its a comparison to each others driving skills.

Ill admit there are a few exceptions to the rule when I say your reaction times get worse as you get older... but ill also say that in general there are millions of bad drivers out there... and in my experience most of them are in SUVS or expensive sports cars.

As you know I work in an oil change and car wash, and we have to direct people into the garage and on the track of the car wash.
The worst listeners are people my age and people in their late 30s - older. The worst of these people are driving SUVs or Sports cars (I follow directions fine and never have never fallen into the pit).
Yesterday I directed some 18 year old kid in his grand prix gtp over the pit and he wasn’t paying attention to my hand signals... if I point to your right go to your right but he didn’t and he drove into the pit. I yelled stop at him but he kept going and he destroyed his car it almost fell completely into the pit the outer wall of the pit was sitting at the top of his window.
This is the first time this has happened in the oil change but something similar happens every day in the wash.
People don’t pay attention to my hand signals, they turn left when I point right... its annoying and the only people who always miss the track completely and have to try it again and again are women in big SUVS.. I’ll admit I’ve never had a man do that. They will also jump the track because they don’t listen to my hand signals and end up in the dirt pit, the grates over them do not support a cars weight let a lone a large truck.


When I was training to be a cop we used to do crowed control at parades and fireworks and other such events. The people who never listened (and I mean never) were people in SUVs and expensive sports cars.
For example some woman was talking on her phone in her SUV and some kid ran out into the street like right in front of me. I put up my hand and blew my whistle and she wasn’t stopping, I ran in front of the kid and put both hands up blew my whistle and stood in front of her and she came to a screeching halt, nearly hitting me. She was very angry with me till she saw the 5-year-old run from behind me.

I called cliffw immature because he said he wished that I was in the Fiero and he hoped he was the one who hit me... basically wishing for my death... which as you know is what every pillar of the Fiero community should wish on those with differing opinions them him self. And I stay by that, he’s a child obviously a bigger one then myself.

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Report this Post10-26-2005 09:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dezie36:


Its not a race... lets get that straight, its a comparison to each others driving skills.

Ill admit there are a few exceptions to the rule when I say your reaction times get worse as you get older... but ill also say that in general there are millions of bad drivers out there... and in my experience most of them are in SUVS or expensive sports cars.

As you know I work in an oil change and car wash, and we have to direct people into the garage and on the track of the car wash.
The worst listeners are people my age and people in their late 30s - older. The worst of these people are driving SUVs or Sports cars (I follow directions fine and never have never fallen into the pit).
Yesterday I directed some 18 year old kid in his grand prix gtp over the pit and he wasn’t paying attention to my hand signals... if I point to your right go to your right but he didn’t and he drove into the pit. I yelled stop at him but he kept going and he destroyed his car it almost fell completely into the pit the outer wall of the pit was sitting at the top of his window.
This is the first time this has happened in the oil change but something similar happens every day in the wash.
People don’t pay attention to my hand signals, they turn left when I point right... its annoying and the only people who always miss the track completely and have to try it again and again are women in big SUVS.. I’ll admit I’ve never had a man do that. They will also jump the track because they don’t listen to my hand signals and end up in the dirt pit, the grates over them do not support a cars weight let a lone a large truck.


When I was training to be a cop we used to do crowed control at parades and fireworks and other such events. The people who never listened (and I mean never) were people in SUVs and expensive sports cars.
For example some woman was talking on her phone in her SUV and some kid ran out into the street like right in front of me. I put up my hand and blew my whistle and she wasn’t stopping, I ran in front of the kid and put both hands up blew my whistle and stood in front of her and she came to a screeching halt, nearly hitting me. She was very angry with me till she saw the 5-year-old run from behind me.

I called cliffw immature because he said he wished that I was in the Fiero and he hoped he was the one who hit me... basically wishing for my death... which as you know is what every pillar of the Fiero community should wish on those with differing opinions them him self. And I stay by that, he’s a child obviously a bigger one then myself.

Sorry but that was me who said I wanted do drive over you.
Funny the Secret Service trains all there agents to drive defensively in Suburbans.
O still say you are not a better driver than me. So if that offer still holds to see who the better driver is my offer still stands. Unless of course your afraid!

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Report this Post10-26-2005 09:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dezie36Send a Private Message to dezie36Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:


Sorry but that was me who said I wanted do drive over you.
Funny the Secret Service trains all there agents to drive defensively in Suburbans.
O still say you are not a better driver than me. So if that offer still holds to see who the better driver is my offer still stands. Unless of course your afraid!

I’m not afraid of anything... except maybe that I’ve pissed you off enough in this thread and you’ll off me and bury me in the woods somewhere.

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Report this Post10-26-2005 09:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Direct Link to This Post
By the way you trained to be a cop but you are working at an oil change joint. You need to stay in school. Get a life and come to grip with life and the real world, thank god you aren't a cop with your attitude you would give anyone over 30 a ticket for just driveing something you don't aprove of. Why aren't you a cop? Couldn't pass the psych evaluation from the sounds of your rantings.
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Report this Post10-26-2005 09:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Direct Link to This Post

84fiero123

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quote
Originally posted by dezie36:


I’m not afraid of anything... except maybe that I’ve pissed you off enough in this thread and you’ll off me and bury me in the woods somewhere.

Then bring along a cop friend, or borrow one of mine. coward, I accepted your challenge and I'm twice your age.

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Report this Post10-26-2005 09:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dezie36Send a Private Message to dezie36Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:

By the way you trained to be a cop but you are working at an oil change joint. You need to stay in school. Get a life and come to grip with life and the real world, thank god you aren't a cop with your attitude you would give anyone over 30 a ticket for just driveing something you don't aprove of. Why aren't you a cop? Couldn't pass the psych evaluation from the sounds of your rantings.

No I wouldn’t give someone a ticket just because I don’t approve of their car... you have a real screwed up view of me (and that’s probably my fault, do not confuse the internet me with the real me)... I have an extremely high work ethic and do my job to the best of my abilities always. I take pride in a job well done and will not leave a job half finished... nor would I ever abuse my power.

I work in an oil change joint because Lansing has like a huge unemployment rate and its hard for someone my age to find a job, what with the 3000+ people always being laid off from GM. This was the only job in the city I could find.

I’m not a cop because my morals didn’t mesh with theirs... I don’t believe in free things because I’m a cop... And to them that’s one of the perks... and when this was found out, I was more or less told to leave the post (this is the abridged version)... which is fine with me.
They were a bunch of bad cops any way, the ones you read about in the news when they are finally caught.

I passed my MColes just fine thank you.

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Report this Post10-26-2005 09:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dezie36Send a Private Message to dezie36Direct Link to This Post

dezie36

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quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:


Then bring along a cop friend, or borrow one of mine. coward, I accepted your challenge and I'm twice your age.

Coward? hmm seems like some one is teetering on the edge of anger here... and all over an internet forum thread... very interesting. You know I haven’t lost my cool once. Because I know in the end you don’t know me… will never truly know me and have no idea who or what I am or will be… And nothing you could possibly say could ever anger me, I am a stone in a pond.

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Report this Post10-26-2005 09:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dezie36:


No I wouldn’t give someone a ticket just because I don’t approve of their car... you have a real screwed up view of me (and that’s probably my fault, do not confuse the internet me with the real me)... I have an extremely high work ethic and do my job to the best of my abilities always. I take pride in a job well done and will not leave a job half finished... nor would I ever abuse my power.

I work in an oil change joint because Lansing has like a huge unemployment rate and its hard for someone my age to find a job, what with the 3000+ people always being laid off from GM. This was the only job in the city I could find.

I’m not a cop because my morals didn’t mesh with theirs... I don’t believe in free things because I’m a cop... And to them that’s one of the perks... and when this was found out, I was more or less told to leave the post (this is the abridged version)... which is fine with me.
They were a bunch of bad cops any way, the ones you read about in the news when they are finally caught.

I passed my MColes just fine thank you.

Well I'm glad we got that streight now you got to offers to take your driveig test,AndyLPhoto offered to take it. I offered to take it. So whats it gonna be? Are you man enuf to put your skills to the test? Lets see just how good a driver you really are.
Just remember we both, AndyLPhoto and I want to do the test in Feb. so we can test your winter driveing skills.

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Report this Post10-26-2005 09:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AndyLPhotoClick Here to visit AndyLPhoto's HomePageSend a Private Message to AndyLPhotoDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dezie36:
... but ill also say that in general there are millions of bad drivers out there... and in my experience most of them are in SUVS or expensive sports cars.
-----
The worst listeners are people my age and people in their late 30s - older. The worst of these people are driving SUVs or Sports cars -----
Yesterday I directed some 18 year old kid in his grand prix gtp over the pit and he wasn’t paying attention to my hand signals...
-----
he destroyed his car it almost fell completely into the pit the outer wall of the pit was sitting at the top of his window.

I'm convinced now. Older drivers in SUVs are the worst drivers on the road!

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Report this Post10-26-2005 10:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dezie36Send a Private Message to dezie36Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by AndyLPhoto:


I'm convinced now. Older drivers in SUVs are the worst drivers on the road!

Actually people my age is SUVs are the worst... then come people my age in Sports cars... then old people in SUVs... especially that 90 year old grandma who came in a few weeks ago, she was in a Yukon and she had that thing where the old people shake... I was totally scared and don’t ever want to be the road with her.

Since Andy is so much closer to me, ill be happy to take a couple of days off and come up and do it. And since this is a skills race and not a speed race I don’t have to go that fast in the Fiero… I can go slow and take my time.
He also doesn’t seem quite as angry...
He also has photo in his name, which leads me to believe he may be into photography either professionally or as a hobby in either case we have something in common.

[This message has been edited by dezie36 (edited 10-26-2005).]

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Report this Post10-26-2005 10:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dezie36:


Coward? hmm seems like some one is teetering on the edge of anger here... and all over an internet forum thread... very interesting. You know I haven’t lost my cool once. Because I know in the end you don’t know me… will never truly know me and have no idea who or what I am or will be… And nothing you could possibly say could ever anger me, I am a stone in a pond.

No anger just a simple chalenge. You offer the original chalenge and AndyLPhoto and I both accepted yet you have yet to accept anyones so I thought if I put it more in the terms that would chalenge your child like attitude you might accept.
So whats it gonna be kid? MI or ME. winter?

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Report this Post10-26-2005 10:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dezie36Send a Private Message to dezie36Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:


No anger just a simple chalenge. You offer the original chalenge and AndyLPhoto and I both accepted yet you have yet to accept anyones so I thought if I put it more in the terms that would chalenge your child like attitude you might accept.
So whats it gonna be kid? MI or ME. winter?

Hmm ill give you the benefit of the doubt and just repost.

Since Andy is so much closer to me, ill be happy to take a couple of days off and come up and do it. And since this is a skills race and not a speed race I don’t have to go that fast in the Fiero… I can go slow and take my time.
He also doesn’t seem quite as angry...
He also has photo in his name, which leads me to believe he may be into photography either professionally or as a hobby in either case we have something in common.

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Report this Post10-26-2005 10:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dezie36:

Since Andy is so much closer to me, ill be happy to take a couple of days off and come up and do it. And since this is a skills race and not a speed race I don’t have to go that fast in the Fiero… I can go slow and take my time.
He also doesn’t seem quite as angry...
He also has photo in his name, which leads me to believe he may be into photography either professionally or as a hobby in either case we have something in common.

It was never a race a simple test of skill and reactions. I can't wait to here the results. Just remember we are all going to here about it.
So now can we end this until it is proven who really is the better driver?
AndyLPhoto keep us posted cause I know when he looses we will never hear about it.

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Report this Post10-26-2005 10:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dezie36Send a Private Message to dezie36Direct Link to This Post
At the end of the day... I still want this

Over this

After all the debating over safety issues, and fuel economy... hell all the issues. It comes down to one thing and only one thing style. My style is all my own and I don’t share it with any one… which is why I drive a v8 Fiero, which is why I have bleached blond hair, and a lip ring, which is why I’m into photography, which is why I love SCI-FI and which is why Ill always pick the sleek small car over the large SUV.

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Report this Post10-26-2005 10:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dezie36Send a Private Message to dezie36Direct Link to This Post

dezie36

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quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:

So now can we end this until it is proven who really is the better driver?
AndyLPhoto keep us posted cause I know when he looses we will never hear about it.

Why do I have to lose? Maybe Andy and I will tie? Maybe Andy will hit a patch of ice that I will not... maybe a deer will jump out on me and wont him... there are way tooooooooo many variables for you to be making such assumptions... I myself don’t know if I’ll out drive him... if it was just in city driving ya I’m confident I’d beat him... but this is some stuff I’m not familiar with and I don’t know what will happen... but in the end if I win I’ll win gracefully, and I’m sure he'll do the same.

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Report this Post10-26-2005 10:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dezie36:

At the end of the day... I still want this

Over this

After all the debating over safety issues, and fuel economy... hell all the issues. It comes down to one thing and only one thing style. My style is all my own and I don’t share it with any one… which is why I drive a v8 Fiero, which is why I have bleached blond hair, and a lip ring, which is why I’m into photography, which is why I love SCI-FI and which is why Ill always pick the sleek small car over the large SUV.

IMO nether of those have any style. The egg you want looks like an egg and the hummer is just an oversized jeep.

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dezie36
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Report this Post10-26-2005 10:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dezie36Send a Private Message to dezie36Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:


IMO nether of those have any style. The egg you want looks like an egg

See this is where personal style comes into it.

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84fiero123
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Report this Post10-26-2005 10:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dezie36:


Why do I have to lose? Maybe Andy and I will tie? Maybe Andy will hit a patch of ice that I will not... maybe a deer will jump out on me and wont him... there are way tooooooooo many variables for you to be making such assumptions... I myself don’t know if I’ll out drive him... if it was just in city driving ya I’m confident I’d beat him... but this is some stuff I’m not familiar with and I don’t know what will happen... but in the end if I win I’ll win gracefully, and I’m sure he'll do the same.

This is the most intelegent thing you have said to date. You are right there are to many variables, the reason for people driveing different cars to begin with. I would never drive my Fiero in the winter up here, it gets put away after the first snow and doesn't come back out until spring.
You drive something that is apropriate for the conditions and need.

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dezie36
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Report this Post10-26-2005 10:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dezie36Send a Private Message to dezie36Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:


This is the most intelegent thing you have said to date. You are right there are to many variables, the reason for people driveing different cars to begin with. I would never drive my Fiero in the winter up here, it gets put away after the first snow and doesn't come back out until spring.
You drive something that is apropriate for the conditions and need.

Your absolutely correct I do... and there are people whom don’t. For example if someone who drives a corvette up in your area in the winter is just as stupid as someone who drives their burb all year long down here. I mean seriously we get maybe a 6” fall at most at one time and its always plowed very quickly… there is no need for such vehicles here… just isn’t.

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