quote Originally posted by dezie36: Why do I have to lose? Maybe Andy and I will tie? Maybe Andy will hit a patch of ice that I will not... maybe a deer will jump out on me and wont him... there are way tooooooooo many variables for you to be making such assumptions... I myself don’t know if I’ll out drive him... if it was just in city driving ya I’m confident I’d beat him... but this is some stuff I’m not familiar with and I don’t know what will happen... but in the end if I win I’ll win gracefully, and I’m sure he'll do the same.

Same here...it should be fun. I don't know whether I'll win or lose, but either way I'm sure it will be a learning experience. City driving...I'm sure you'd have me there. I actually enjoy the challenge of city driving from time to time, but I don't do it every day, so I'm out of practice. I've always wanted to try autocrossing, but my weekends during the summer usually fill up pretty quickly, so it's not something I've mad a priority. I think rally driving would be a blast.

As for photography, I've done it as a hobby for years, and have been doing it professionally for about 8 years, though not as my primary career. I've never done my own printing though, so that's something you've gotten into that I haven't. Wish I had more time for it though. Too many hobbies, too little time.

quote Originally posted by AndyLPhoto: Wish I had more time for it though. Too many hobbies, too little time.

It really doesnt take that much time... so long as youve set up a full time dark room. I used to have a bathroom set up and it sucked but now ive got a full fleged dark room with a roating door and its great i get an extra 30 min of time and i head down there and devlope a few pix the most time consuming part of it is devlioping my film.

I hear that... I have photography, my Fiero, oh that’s it... but you’d be surprised how much time the Fiero can take up... no wait you wouldn’t you have one.

quote Originally posted by dezie36: Your absolutely correct I do... and there are people whom don’t. For example if someone who drives a corvette up in your area in the winter is just as stupid as someone who drives their burb all year long down here. I mean seriously we get maybe a 6” fall at most at one time and its always plowed very quickly… there is no need for such vehicles here… just isn’t.

No one and I mean No One drives a corvette up here in the winter, to much snow. We, my wife and I had a Vet. just a ticket machine. We could be driveing down the highway at 4 miles an hour over the speed limit in the Vet and get a ticket. But pass the same cop in the same conditions with the Burb or the one of the Vans at 10 or 15 miles over the limit and he doesn't even look twice, no ticket.
I do drive the Burb all year long, but only when I need it, its space for tools, or to haul with. Most people up here own winter and summer vehicles. You aren't going to drive a Vet. or a Fiero in the winter up here. The roads just don't get cleared that quick when we get snow, besides even in 6" of snow the Vet. or the Fiero are useless. As they are both useless for hauling a horse trailer, just as a pickup is useless in the winter up here unless its allways in 4 wheel drive all the time. Pickups just don't have the weight over the drive wheels for winter driveing unless they are full. Thats why we drive the Burb.
Now I got to go water the horses so I'm done for the time being.

quote Originally posted by dezie36: Your absolutely correct I do... and there are people whom don’t. For example if someone who drives a corvette up in your area in the winter is just as stupid as someone who drives their burb all year long down here. I mean seriously we get maybe a 6” fall at most at one time and its always plowed very quickly… there is no need for such vehicles here… just isn’t.

You're right about that. While I won't go so far as to say people shouldn't be allowed to drive a vehicle of their choosing, I will tell you that if I lived in Lansing, there's a very slim chance I would have a 4WD vehicle. I may still have an SUV, but I sure wouldn't need a four wheel drive. Up here, I need something to tow with, something that's 4WD, and having a back seat is handy with the family. The cargo space in the back is also nice when I'm hauling equipment around to do a wedding. But again, when I don't *need* the Explorer, I enjoy driving the Fiero, or pound miles on the Escort.

quote Originally posted by AndyLPhoto: You're right about that. While I won't go so far as to say people shouldn't be allowed to drive a vehicle of their choosing, I will tell you that if I lived in Lansing, there's a very slim chance I would have a 4WD vehicle. I may still have an SUV, but I sure wouldn't need a four wheel drive. Up here, I need something to tow with, something that's 4WD, and having a back seat is handy with the family. The cargo space in the back is also nice when I'm hauling equipment around to do a wedding. But again, when I don't *need* the Explorer, I enjoy driving the Fiero, or pound miles on the Escort.

Just an FYI I had a Town and Country Minivan (95) with AWD... horrible gas mileage (17 in the city) but damn I could pull just about anything and could go just about anywhere. And I had a lot more space then any SUV and despite the un-cool factor I made it cool because I was driving it.

But I definitely didn’t need AWD all year round and only really was grateful for it when Sara and I went to crystal falls in the UP.
I got rid of the van for the Fiero and tho I didn’t even increase my gas mileage, I have more fun in it… and get a lot more questions.

I’m looking at the smart car because I don’t plan on ever living that far out side the city and I don’t plan on staying in MI… so this is a perfect car for someone like me… if I lived in main… ya id probably have an SUV… but I don’t so I don’t.

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: I would like to make one small point here, if I may. I don't believe for one minute, that a vehicle which uses a lot more fuel will increase the price of fuel at all. The point I am trying to make is this. If everybody used high-mpg vehicles, and thus used less fuel, the prices would rise. Supply and demand. If the amount of fuel consumed daily drops, so does the revenue to the Oil Companies..and so they would put the price up to maintain their profit levels.By way of explanation: Shell sell 10.000.000 gallons of gas in an area every week. People change overnight to small low consumption vehicles, reducing their consumption by, say, 10%. The profit taken will also drop by 10%..and the amount of fuel consumed will then become 9 million.and they will have to try to make the same profit on 9 million as ten...so they raise the price of gas to cover it by an appropriate amount.If the opposite happens, and they sell more because everybody uses more, they can afford to drop the price, although not by the same amount, and thereby making a bigger profit than before. I hope this makes sense. After all, I am sure there are behind-the-scenes deals made between Motor Manufacturers and fuel Companies..You make bigger cars that use more gas, and we will reciprocate by investing in your Company Nick

I don't believe it! You got it all BACKWARDS. High demand drives up prices low demand drives DOWN prices. Sheeesh!

quote Originally posted by AndyLPhoto: Oh, Dezie...another thing. Since I'm 34 and you're only 20, time goes faster for me. It's true. As you get older, time goes faster. I used to think people were joking about that! haha

Oh no I believe you... when I was in school summer vacation lasted for ever and the winter even longer... but damn these past 2 years have just flown by.

Densie36

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Do you even think before you post ? Have you ever heard the saying "measure twice, cut once" ? Do you realize you have ideas which you do not advance, because of your presentation, not spelling, punctuation or grammar. You invite people to shoot them down because of "the world according to Dezzie".

You never answered my question densie.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Why don't you put some credibility in your opinions ? You are hard to take serious and when you are not, you hurl attacks.

quote Originally posted by dezie36: I called cliffw immature because he said he wished that I was in the Fiero and he hoped he was the one who hit me... basically wishing for my death... which as you know is what every pillar of the Fiero community should wish on those with differing opinions them him self. And I stay by that, he’s a child obviously a bigger one then myself.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: I don't take $hit from morons.

Remember, think twice, speak once.

quote Originally posted by lurker: my advice? back away from this thread, no good will come of it. (take it or leave it, your choice)

quote Originally posted by AndyLPhoto: You're doing a whole lot of generalizing in this thread, Dezie. Take care of your own house first.

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: Come on Dezie.....you are going well over the top now!!! Woah there, rein it in a bit!! Your family must be in the Guinness book of records by now, for misfortunes!! If it is true, I apologise, but you do seem to be very adept at pulling "proof" out of nowhere!! And I don't think it is very respectful to call a Gentleman like MJ an ass..so cool it a bit!!! Nick

quote Originally posted by Patrick: No one is making light of your grandmother's death. We're making light of YOU, and I suspect none of us will be going to hell for doing that. You deserve every dig you're getting in this (and other) threads. As a matter of fact, I'm convinced you enjoy it. You keep coming back and asking for more!

quote Originally posted by Patrick: This is like shooting fish in a barrel.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Reading this thread is like watching a car wreck in slow motion.

quote Originally posted by dezie36: I called cliffw immature because he said he wished that I was in the Fiero and he hoped he was the one who hit me... basically wishing for my death...

Moron.

quote Originally posted by dezie36: Oh no I believe you... when I was in school summer vacation lasted for ever and the winter even longer... but damn these past 2 years have just flown by.

Try having kids.

quote Originally posted by dezie36: LOL man you just love making me laugh. May I ask have you ever been in an accident when 2 SUVs hit? I have and I had whiplash and my neck hurt for months... plus I hit my head on the window... and I had a bruise for 3 weeks. When I was in an accident with a geo prizm I walked away with no injuries not even whiplash and the car I was in was destroyed... yet the occupants of the s10 that hit us left in the ambulance... we left in a ride that we called.

I read through like 5 pages of this and kept seeing the same thing.

You keep saying that your argument is that a person driving an suv is likely to kill a person driving a car. Yet in this example you give a person in an suv being the hurt ones while you in the car were the one not hurt. Doesn't that kind of go against your "argument"?

Not only that but you also say that "if a person in an suv isn't at fault they can still kill someone." So before you get mad at the person in the suv shouldn't you get mad at the person at fault, the person in the car?

I have three cars right now(two being feiros). I plan on selling one(the suzuki) and buying a Durango. Why? My new job has me going through dirt roads over a mile long. When it rains it creates mud pits that I don't want to drive my fieros through. The durango has plenty of power for towing and gets about the same gas mileage as the v6 trucks and whatnot out there. Also makes it easier to carry tools.

I also used to play paintball every weekend, which involved going through dirt roads. I would have to park my car and get in a friends truck to get where we were playing. Also makes carrying all the equipment a lot easier.

Same goes for scuba diving. When I went for my certification I took an 88 corolla. I went along with my brother and one friend. The car was completely filled with barely enough room for all the equipment and extra clothes for the weekend along with us. Now, that was with only me taking scuba gear. What if there were other people wanting to go that needed scuba gear? We would have needed more cars. If you put more cars on the road more gas is used and the likeliness of an accident increases due to the # of cars increasing.

If everyone obeyed all the rules of the road, and knew how to drive the automobile they are using properly, you wouldn't see accidents. Maybe what your argument should be is that people with suvs should start car pooling together. Same for car drivers. Less cars and trucks on the road less accidents and less gas used.

quote Originally posted by dezie36: My grandmother died because she was cut in half by her seat belt.

I have to chime in here. As a past EMT/Paramedic, I can say that this is an unusual event. It is tragic that it happened to her, but the exception, not the rule. Much as if someone choked while eating a hamberger, you shouldn't conclude that all hambergers are killers.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: This is like shooting fish in a barrel.

This is the first fish I ever came across who supplied the ammunition.

I had come to the conclusion that the thread had come to its end... I guess cliff just can’t let it rest... I was ready to. Still am and will.

quote Originally posted by dezie36: I had come to the conclusion that the thread had come to its end...

Think twice Dezie, think twice. The only thing keeping this thread open is you.

quote Originally posted by dezie36: Actually people my age is SUVs are the worst... then come people my age in Sports cars...

Sorry, I just HAD to cherry pick this one. dezie, do you realize that you just identified yourself as one of the second worst drivers on road? You with your V8 Fiero thats always doing 5 over. Way to go, man, you shoulda pleaded the 5th on that one.

quote Originally posted by dezie36: After all the debating over safety issues, and fuel economy... hell all the issues. It comes down to one thing and only one thing style. My style is all my own and I don’t share it with any one… which is why I drive a v8 Fiero, which is why I have bleached blond hair, and a lip ring, which is why I’m into photography, which is why I love SCI-FI and which is why Ill always pick the sleek small car over the large SUV.

It comes down to one thing only, but it is not your style. You state the above and are against everyone elses individulaism ? We should share what you want yet we can't have what we want. Well, this was obvious on page one. Or was it page one of another of your posts.
It comes down to one thing, you are right. Your selfish opinions.
Who here was ever against you getting a smart car ? By the way, smart car is a marketing label just as SUV is.
Densie36, I like you otherwise I would not even waste my time with you. Please do not let it be a waste. I also knew it all when I was 21, till I turned 22.

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: Sorry, I just HAD to cherry pick this one. dezie, do you realize that you just identified yourself as one of the second worst drivers on road? You with your V8 Fiero thats always doing 5 over. Way to go, man, you shoulda pleaded the 5th on that one.

Who was it that said "...like shooting fish in a barrel"?

Seriously.

<snicker>

quote Originally posted by mr_dakota: As a past EMT/Paramedic, I can say that this is an unusual event. It is tragic that it happened to her, but the exception, not the rule.

mr_dakota, welcome to the forum. I can assure you that the bickering going on here is really an unusual event. I know first impressions do last, but give us some time.
Speaking as you did, have you ever known anyone to be decapitated by a seat belt ? WOW !

quote Originally posted by cliffw: ... have you ever known anyone to be decapitated by a seat belt ? WOW !

Keep in mind it was a seat belt that was mentioned by Dezie, not a noose around the neck! (Nor even a shoulder harness for that matter.)

I still find it difficult to believe that a seat belt could cut completely through a person's mid-section. It would have to be one hell of a wallop, in which case the person no doubt would've died without a seat belt as well.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-26-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: Sorry, I just HAD to cherry pick this one. dezie, do you realize that you just identified yourself as one of the second worst drivers on road? You with your V8 Fiero thats always doing 5 over. Way to go, man, you shoulda pleaded the 5th on that one.

I'm just going by static’s. I am an exception (my driving record bears that conclusion) just as some here are exceptions the to idea that SUV owners do it for selfish reasons.

Cliff I’m trying to let it die... yet you all keep responding.

FYI I’m free to say I hate SUV’s and explain why based on the evidence I’ve been presented, the same evidence I’ve posted in this thread by those links. You are just as free to tell me how unsafe the smart car is, or how ugly it is… you are also free to say I don’t think small cars like this should be allowed (for what ever reason you would feel for that). This is America and these are just opinions, opinions on an internet forum.

Patrick I did not mean it literally when I said she was broken in half (I realize I said ripped and that was a speaking error on my part, my apologies). I’m not sure the exact details, I truly do not wish to ask my mother but I assume that it was more like her upper and lower half tried to slide over to the passenger side of the seat but was restricted at her hip.

[This message has been edited by dezie36 (edited 10-26-2005).]

quote Originally posted by dezie36: Patrick I did not mean it literally when I said she was broken in half (I realize I said ripped and that was a speaking error on my part, my apologies).

To be precise, you didn't say "ripped" either.

quote Originally posted by dezie36: My grandmother died because she was cut in half by her seat belt.

You gotta be careful with what you say here, because we'll gitcha!

quote Originally posted by dezie36: Cliff I’m trying to let it die... yet you all keep responding.

Think twice densie, think twice.
Is it me, the "you all" above (forum), or you ?

quote Originally posted by Patrick: You gotta be careful with what you say here, because we'll gitcha!

Ok, that was a error in speaking as well... I didn’t think for one min any one here would think someone could be cut in half by fabric. I stopped thinking that’s what happened when i was 12. You guys just love getting people on errors in speech…

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Think twice densie, think twice. Is it me, the "you all" above (forum), or you ?

Forum

[This message has been edited by dezie36 (edited 10-26-2005).]

quote Originally posted by dezie36: FYI I’m free to say I hate SUV’s and explain why based on the evidence...........

You are also free to present evidence first, credible evidence, and state in question form, "do you agree ? " To start off spouting hatred and generalizing, because "the world is not as Dezzie would have it" was inviting chaos. Ya might have even had some people take your side. You might have even had some people disagree without attacking you (your words). You might have been able to realize that everyone that drives an SUV, like me, does so with enough reasons for us. Reasons that are sound. You would have even found some agreemennt among us that yes, many times they are not needed.
But you are only 21.

quote Originally posted by dezie36: Ok, that was a error in speaking as well... I didn’t think for one min any one here would think someone could be cut in half by fabric. I stopped thinking that’s what happened when i was 12. You guys just love getting people on errors in speech…

Nice try Dezie, now you’re backpedaling furiously. When Nick (fierofetish) called you on it, this is what you replied:

quote Originally posted by dezie36: yes it did happen, i believe the year was 1955 when my mom was 5... I can double check for you... I know my mom loves talking about it.

And then later:

quote Originally posted by dezie36: All I know is what my mother has told me... unless she’s lying about the cause of death. I do know she died in 1955 and I only have my mom and her sister's words to go on.

But you’re right about one thing, no one for one minute believed what you stated and defended about your grandma being “cut in half” by a seat belt.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: But you’re right about one thing, no one for one minute believed what you stated and defended about your grandma being “cut in half” by a seat belt.

Instantly.

quote Originally posted by Chump: Does someone have an animation of a smiley pounding his/her head against the wall?

i gotcha,

Bearing in mind I live in Spain, where it rarely rains, let alone snows...I have to say that 90% of SUV's here are driven by Yuppies, who would NEVER risk putting their vehicles through their paces in the environment they were "designed" for..it might get dirty!! And I have to agree to a point, that the majority of these folk who do drive SUV's, seem to be on a power trip..and don't play by the rules. The Spanish do tend to be reasonably phylosophical about driving vehicles that suit their needs. Most of the Farmers around here drive older 4x4's, like Landrovers and Nissan Patrols, etc...because they are cheaper secondhand, and because of the fact they are never used off-road by the original purchasers, and so are still in very good condition.I believe that the newer SUV's are aimed at people who are easily influenced by fashion trends, rather than the practicality aspect.After all, these vehicles are built with comfort and "Bling" on blatant display, and are really much too nice to be used off road..so it rather defeats the point of making them, in my opinion. I have had 4x4's, and was deterred by the high cost of repairs and maintainance, to continue using my last one (my Toyota Hilux, which was 13 years old, and a bit knocked about, was ideal for my steelwork transporting), but when the engine decided to throw a conrod bearing, and it was going to cost me more than I paid for it to repair it, I realised it was a waste of my money. When I do have enough to repair it, I won't do it to use it, just to sell it, and recoup some of my money. I will buy a small high-top van,,much more practical!! And who needs to have a glamorous car, when you are dressed in oily overalls, and muddy shoes??!! In all honesty, I doubt anybody would invest 30.000 euros in a brand new SUV, and promptly go and drive it down a muddy riverbed, to see if the traction really IS as good as the adverts say!!.
So, in a way, I guess I can see Dezie's point, but it takes a lot of tolerance and deciphering of what He was really getting at, and it was put in altogether a too vehement condemnation, which puts peoples' backs up.Dezie. I think it is not so much what you say being wrong, just the way you present it..I've got a bucket of water nearby, to douse the ensuing conflagration!! !! (Yes, I think Dezie does it deliberately, because He enjoys his apparent notoriety )
Nick
PS Larrymory, it appears that way, doesn't it? But, when I used to work for a small petrol station chain, the principle I stated was the way they went...and they went from 1 station to 26 in 4 years, and the two owners sold out to Amoco for enough money to see them through the next three lives...and the petrol staions were shut down within the next 2 years after the takeover..because their sales dropped drastically under the amoco system..which was the one you quoted...the more the original owners sold, the lower the price went, until they were a lot cheaper than all the competition. I think Amoco bought them out, to stop them being a thorn in their side...The Company was called Matzest Motors of Hackney, I wonder if I can find any details to post. The owners were Kevin Reardon, and Bob Newson..I will take a shot with Google, but I guess it was too long ago.
Nick
Well, I Googled it, and to my amusement, the stations are back in private hands, and the thirteen original stations in East London, are up and running..all thirteen of them!! Can't keep a good idea down, can you? Your "Sheeesh" returned and I raise you another sheesh, just for fun!!!
Nick

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fierofetish.PFF'S self-confessed Snowbird!!

Responsibility: the solution for our World's Dilemmas..
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[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 10-26-2005).]

quote Originally posted by fierofetish: So, in a way, I guess I can see Dezie's point, but it takes a lot of tolerance and deciphering of what He was really getting at, and it was put in altogether a too vehement condemnation, which puts peoples' backs up.Dezie. I think it is not so much what you say being wrong, just the way you present it..

You say it so much better than I.

A rather interesting photo..might have been posted earlier, but I am too tired to go back and look

Nick
PS. There are more and more Smart car variations appearing here in Europe, and they are selling very well...our gas prices have now caught up with the rest of Europe, and the result is the upsweep in sales of economy micro-cars.Mostly are used sensibly here..they are surprisingly nippy, and the photos do not do them justice, IMHO. They look remarkably like a condensed Mercedes 'A' class

, just smaller. I don't find them attractive, and some of the new ones are painted with multi-coloured panels...ugh!!! The Smart Roadster is a nice car to drive..tried one owned by one of my Bosses. It was fun.Looks like a cross between a Fiero(sorry!!), a Sportster and a Honda CRX...Hmm, the good, the bad and the ugly!! Hahaha!!
Nick

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 10-26-2005).]

Can't make out the revelence of it.

That must be the electric version of the Smart Car. I see the extension cord coming from the back.

Well, from the photo, it looks like the Smart suffered less damage...can't say what happened to the crash-test-dummy, though!!
Patrick.... !! (once again!!)
Here are a couple more intersting pics of various Roadster models..



Nick
Edit to say..How about collecting a few of the redundant Fiero v6's, and swapping them into this, then?!!!

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 10-26-2005).]

Where have I seen a car like that before....oh, now I remember

"Three wheels on my wagon, and I'm still rolling along.." !!!..do you know what they are worth now, Cooter??!!! The Heinkel, and the Mescherscmidtt(sp?)..two of a kind!!! Oh, how I remember them!!!
Nick
PS..And OOOH!! The Bond BUG!!! Yellow peril!! I still remember Stirling Moss driving one round Shepherd's Bush Green, in London, with its' name taped out..what a STIR that created!!! !!! How about the Sinclair C5? haven't we seen some strange vehicles on the roads, us Older Guys??!!!

quote Originally posted by Cooter: Where have I seen a car like that before....oh, now I remember

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 10-26-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Cooter:

WOW !
I remember them too, my Dad had one. I think it was called the "bubble car". The whole front end opened up, windshield and all. That was the door. Thanks for the memory.

quote Originally posted by dezie36: I'm just going by static’s. I am an exception (my driving record bears that conclusion) just as some here are exceptions the to idea that SUV owners do it for selfish reasons.

I forgot, dezie is the exception to every rule he espouses when its personally convenient. Does that mean if you have a good driving record you're allowed to break the law?