When you adjust my comments like that in I have lost all respect for your arguement. I stated my opinion, don't agree with it? Well tough, everyone has different opinions, I stated mine, agree or disagree but don't disrespect them.
IP: Logged
03:34 PM
RandomTask Member
Posts: 4540 From: Alexandria, VA Registered: Apr 2005
Answers sought in death outside Wal-Mart Man accused of theft begged to be let up from hot pavement, witness says By ROBERT CROWE and S.K. BARDWELL Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle A man suspected of shoplifting goods from an Atascocita Wal-Mart — including diapers and a BB gun — had begged employees to let him up from the blistering pavement in the store's parking lot where he was held, shirtless, before he died Sunday, a witness said.
ADVERTISEMENT
An autopsy for the man, identified as Stacy Clay Driver, 30, of Cleveland, was scheduled for Monday, but officials said results probably would be delayed by a wait for toxicology tests.
Driver's family, as well as one emergency worker, are questioning company procedure, including whether Wal-Mart workers administered CPR after they realized he needed medical attention.
When Atascocita Volunteer Fire Department paramedics arrived, Driver was in cardiac arrest, said Royce Worrell, EMS director. Worrell said Monday he heard from investigators that Wal-Mart employees administered CPR to Driver, but he was not sure that happened.
"When we got there, the man was facedown (in cardiac arrest) with handcuffs behind his back," Worrell said. "That's not indicative of someone given CPR."
Wal-Mart employees referred calls to the Harris County Sheriff's Department, where homicide detectives are investigating the death.
"We're just not able to provide any comment at this time ... ," said Christi Gallagher, spokeswoman at Wal-Mart's headquarters in Bentonville, Ark.
Jim Lindeman, a lawyer representing Driver's family, said the family is devastated. "We're waiting to learn the results of the Sheriff's Department investigation," he said.
No charges have been filed. "The determining factor will be the (autopsy) report in whether we go forward with any charges," said Lt. John Martin, Sheriff's Department spokesman.
Driver lived in Cleveland, where his parents own a small business, Lindeman said. Driver was a master carpenter with a 2-month-old son and was about halfway through taking flying courses to get his pilot's license, Lindeman said.
Employees told investigators Driver had walked out the store with a package of diapers, a pair of sunglasses, a BB gun and a package of BBs, Martin said.
Lindeman said otherwise. "It's our belief he was not shoplifting," he said.
Houston lawyer Charles Portz was outside the store at 6626 FM 1960 East when employees chased Driver into the parking lot Sunday afternoon.
Portz said three employees caught Driver, who twisted and turned until his shirt came off and he broke free and ran.
"They chased him right past me," said Portz, who followed the chase, then saw four or five employees hold Driver on the ground. Driver was pleading with them to let him up, Portz said. "The blacktop was just blistering," he said.
The high temperature at Bush Intercontinental Airport Sunday was 96 degrees.
Portz said one of the Wal-Mart employees had Driver in a choke hold as other employees pinned his body to the ground.
"He was begging, 'Please, I'm burning, let me up,' " Portz said of Driver. "He'd push himself up off the blacktop, like he was doing a push-up.
"About 30 people were saying, 'Let him up, it's too hot,' " Portz said. He said another employee brought a rug for Driver to lie on, but one of those holding Driver said he was fine where he was. "After about five minutes, (Driver) said, 'I'm dying, I can't breathe, call an ambulance,' " Portz said.
Employees struggled with Driver before he was handcuffed, Martin said.
"There was a struggle, and when they finally succeeded after getting him detained in handcuffs, he continued to struggle," Martin said.
After Driver was handcuffed, Portz said one employee had his knee on the man's neck and others were putting pressure on his back.
"Finally the guy stopped moving" and the employees got off him, Portz said. "They wouldn't call an ambulance.
"I looked at him and said, 'Hey, he's not breathing,' but one guy told me (Driver) was just on drugs. I told them his fingernails were all gray, and finally they called an ambulance."
Martin said investigators have no indication that Driver was intoxicated.
He also said a review of surveillance tape showed that nine minutes had elapsed between the time employees "got (Driver) under control and the time EMS showed up."
Worrell said paramedics arrived two minutes, 19 seconds after they received the call. Paramedics performed CPR on Driver en route to Northeast Medical Center Hospital, where he was pronounced dead.
Store employees told investigators Driver entered the store with an item marked with a sticker indicating it had been paid for, then switched the sticker to a more expensive item and tried to leave with it.
But this is where common sense kicks in. Would you run across heavy traffic? If she ran across heavy traffic and decided to J-walk, yeah, tough beans for her but I chose to date girls with slightly higher intelligence than that.
My cousin was killed a couple of years ago. He was 15 and with his friends walking to McDonalds when a 7 time previously convicted drunk driver smashed into him and two of his friends. My cousin was killed instantly, his friend is a permanant vegtable (Terri Shiavo like), and the third suffered multiple broken bones. The driver recieved 2 years of jail time and was released . My cousin was walking on the sidewalk and never even saw it coming. My uncle sued the driver for $1million and was only awarded $200,000. This walmart guys family is going to walk away with millions. Tell me where the justice is in this?
JUSTICE? This mans family is going to suffer, and he ****ing was tortued, on the pavement, pleading for his life, for allegedly stealing a diaper, and those walmart employees are probably going to walk.. But thats ok, because they'll get money? **** that.
IP: Logged
04:11 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
JUSTICE? This mans family is going to suffer, and he ****ing was tortued, on the pavement, pleading for his life, for allegedly stealing a diaper, and those walmart employees are probably going to walk.. But thats ok, because they'll get money? **** that.
I don't think he was deliberately tortured. After doing more reading into the subject, I could argue that they should be charged with involuntary manslaughter. I know how hot pavement can be, and I would be more than accomodating if I had just detained someone, to take them somewhere else. Excessive force? Its a hard line. The guy had previously tried to run away and elude the LP's however he was cuffed then asked to be cuffed to a truck to get him off the pavement. I think the LP's should have allowed that.
You missed the point of my story. The drunk driver destroyed TWO lives yet he gets two years and a fine. You can get charged more for reproducing software and DVD's. My cousin was doing nothing wrong. Now imagine this, these LP's were legally detaining someone and while excessive force was used, the guy should not have been stealing. (I will STILL hold the LP's responsible for excessive force) Expect the victims family to recieve in the double digit millions. The guy who killed my cousin had to do two years and 200k, walmart will probably dish out about 50 million. Is the two years this guy spent in jail worth the $49+ million when the drunk driver did basically double the crime? While you can only get so much blood out of a dead horse, I think being the guys 8th DUI, he should have been locked up for 50+ years.
IP: Logged
04:34 PM
RandomTask Member
Posts: 4540 From: Alexandria, VA Registered: Apr 2005
Now, what legal authority do the LPs have to detain or cuff anyone? Remember, they do NOT have the authority of Police Officers.
So, any physical action they take could be deemed excessive, even if they just grabbed him by the arm. It all depends on what they have the authority to do.
IP: Logged
04:38 PM
RandomTask Member
Posts: 4540 From: Alexandria, VA Registered: Apr 2005
TOTALITY OF CIRCUMSTANCES, STORE SECURITY PERSONNEL DID NOT VIOLATE “SHOPKEEPERS’ PRIVILEGE” IN HOLDING SUSPECTED SHOPLIFTER UNTIL POLICE ARRIVED - In Guijosa, et. al. v. Wal-Mart Stores, Inc., 101 Wn. App. 777 (Div. II, 2000), the Court of Appeals rejects the argument of three civil litigants’ that, as a matter of law, Wal-Mart security violated RCW 4.24.220 (the “shopkeeper’s privilege statute”) by holding them on probable cause for 20 to 30 minutes until police arrived to investigate.
The Guijosa case arose when Wal-Mart security personnel detained three men, Guijosa, Hernandez, and Delgado, on probable cause to believe the men had shoplifted. Upon seizure, Guijosa, who was the only one of the three who spoke English, told Wal-Mart security staff that the items belonged to them, and that they would make any further statement to the police when police arrived at the store. Police arrived 20 to 30 minutes later and took a statement.
Charges were filed against Delgado and Guijosa, but then, before the criminal trial, the charges were dismissed. All three men then sued Wal-Mart for false imprisonment, battery, malicious prosecution, and violation of the Consumer Protection Act. A jury returned a verdict for Wal-Mart.
On appeal, one of the issues was whether RCW 4.24.220 allows store security personnel, once they have completed questioning of suspects, to continue to hold suspected shoplifters on probable cause while waiting a reasonable period of time for police to respond to their call for assistance and investigation.
The Court of Appeals rejects the plaintiffs’ hypertechnical reading of the language of RCW 4.24.220. The Guijosa Court holds that, so long as probable cause continues to exist throughout the detention, civilian store personnel may hold shoplifting suspects for a reasonable period of time to wait for police officers to arrive and further investigate. The evidence in this case supported the jury’s finding that the Wal-Mart personnel continued to have probable cause throughout the detention, and that Wal-Mart personnel waited a reasonable period of time (20 to 30 minutes) for police to arrive, the Guijosa Court holds.
Result: Affirmance of Mason County Superior Court judgment on jury verdict for Wal-Mart.
IP: Logged
04:43 PM
aceman Member
Posts: 4899 From: Brooklyn Center, MN Registered: Feb 2003
I did read the above case. The closest I see to excessive force is the paintiffs sued for battery. No where else did the case mention any ASSAULT or excessive force.
The recent incident WAS excessive force. The newspaper articles also stated that this case takes a big turn against Walmart and it's LP employees if they find through an autopsy that the cause of death was their excessive force.
IP: Logged
05:01 PM
PFF
System Bot
RandomTask Member
Posts: 4540 From: Alexandria, VA Registered: Apr 2005
Formula was stating as I quoted "Where do LP's have the legal authority to detain someone" I researched it and found how they did and stated that. I've already mentioned that I believe there was excessive force used, I'm no longer argueing that.
IP: Logged
05:03 PM
aceman Member
Posts: 4899 From: Brooklyn Center, MN Registered: Feb 2003
RandonTask, In that part of the country, they can do that. In Minnesota, it is against the law to detain me against my will as a Loss Prevention person for a store. Well let me rephrase that.....
If a LP stops me in the store, the LP is legally right to detain me and question me. The LP is not allowed by law to block a door or detain me outside of the doors of the store. The LP is NOT ALLOWED to search me in or out of the store. The LP is allowed to call the cops and have them search me. In Minnesota, the cops will only search a suspect if there is something bulging out of his cloths or if there is clear cut evidence on tape. Otherwise, the suspect is questioned and then released.
As I said earlier............I Minnesota, if my bag sets off their sensors and alarms as I walk out, the LP can ask me to stop and ask to search my bag. I can allow the LP to do so or I can continue to walk out that door, say FU! and if he lays a hand on me, I can press for assault and/or battery charges and false imprisonment. The burden of proof lies in the store. Just because I set off their sensors and alarms DOES NOT mean I am suspected of stealing anything.
I think you're missing the point, being that this man was on the ground, pleading for his life, and they did nothing while he died and turned grey... I don't care how much money the family gets. They will always be thinking of their husband/father begging for his life on the ground.
IP: Logged
05:47 PM
t2explosive Member
Posts: 41 From: Bakersfield, CA Registered: Mar 2004
Should've used common sense and moved him once he was cuffed. Walmart employees aren't known for using common sense. Here in CA, if you steal and run out of the store,no employ is to run after you(including the parking lot). Thats what law enforcement is for.
IP: Logged
06:19 PM
Gordo Member
Posts: 2981 From: East Guilford, NY, USA Registered: Mar 2002
That's my thinking. If he'd died from injuries sustained from a fight, that's one thing, but once he was subdued and begging for his life, the LPs had time to think and consider what they were doing. The immediate threat was gone and they were able to deliberate whether or not to let him up. That's why I'd push for 1st degree murder and the death penalty.
IP: Logged
07:05 PM
Capt Fiero Member
Posts: 7657 From: British Columbia, Canada Registered: Feb 2000
I think you're missing the point, being that this man was on the ground, pleading for his life, and they did nothing while he died and turned grey... I don't care how much money the family gets. They will always be thinking of their husband/father begging for his life on the ground.
I hate to agree with JK on anything. But
The LP people went way way beyond. They should be arrested and charged with accidental death at the minimum. They intended to hold him down, and they intended to torture him. They knew he was in great pain, but I don't think they intended to kill him. Maybe its called murder of the 2nd degree. They were on a GOD trip thinking that it was there right to dish out some Justice. No its not there right. I can justify roughing someone up that is stealing a car or holding someone up, but stealing diapers. Jesh.
Torturing a man to death is wrong. Regardless of how or why he actually died. Them holding him to the pavement was a large contributing factor in his death.
------------------ 85GT 5spd MSD Everything,4.9 With Nitrous. www.captfiero.com
IP: Logged
07:11 PM
firstfiero Member
Posts: 4879 From: york,pa,17403 Registered: Dec 2000
I love how immediatly it's walmart's fault! lol God knows I hate walmart and rarely shop thier but unless thier teaching thier lp's to chase down shop lifters and apply deadly force the fault lies with an over zealous LP.
I love how immediatly it's walmart's fault! lol God knows I hate walmart and rarely shop thier but unless thier teaching thier lp's to chase down shop lifters and apply deadly force the fault lies with an over zealous LP.
If the LP is on the clock acting on behalf of Wal-Mart, then Wal-Mart is liable, just as the individual LPs are liable.
Granted, WM shouldn't have to have a training class to teach their employees that it's bad to kill the customers, but any security personnel should be trained in how much force they are authorized and allowed to use.
IP: Logged
08:06 PM
Spektrum-87GT Member
Posts: 1601 From: Yorktown, VA Registered: Aug 2001
I love how immediatly it's walmart's fault! lol God knows I hate walmart and rarely shop thier but unless thier teaching thier lp's to chase down shop lifters and apply deadly force the fault lies with an over zealous LP.
It's wal-mart policy to aggressively pursue shoplifters, using force if necessary. I believe they should be held accountable, as well as the LP workers.
Driver lived in Cleveland, where his parents own a small business, Lindeman said. Driver was a master carpenter with a 2-month-old son and was about halfway through taking flying courses to get his pilot's license, Lindeman said.
Cleveland Texas is a very small town, and both my father and my sisters live there. More than likely, they knew the guy who died (killed?). I know a lot of people there myself, but the name 'Driver' doesn't ring a bell.
This whole area is pretty much backwoods----redneck personified. Atascocita is pretty small too, so we probably aren't talking Supercenter. And no, I'm not suprised to hear he wasn't wearing a shirt in WalMart. Bib overalls are common in the Big Thicket area and he may have been wearing those, shirtless, as is the custom. Weather there last weekend was hot with scattered showers, and very high humidity--as always. Having grown up about 40 miles from Atascocita, I can tell you that it really is possible to fry an egg on the sidewalks on just about any August day.
Not too far from The Woodlands. Maybe G-Nasty will chime in and shed a little more light on this. I'm kinda curious why Harris County is handling the autopsy, since I believe this took place in Liberty County.
IP: Logged
08:55 PM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
When witness Charles Portz saw the employees struggling with Driver on the parking lot pavement, he did not see any of the alleged stolen items but the sunglasses.
"That's what got my attention, the employee kicked him in the back of the leg, knocked him off balance then they just threw him down to ground," Portz said.
The International Association of Professional Security Consultants recommends that retail security personnel do not strike, tackle, sit on a suspect, or engage in any contact that might cause physical injury.
Texas law allows store employees to make a citizen's arrest as long as they have cause to do so, said Chris McGoey, president of McGoey Security Consulting in California,
"You can use 'reasonable' force to recover merchandise or detain a person long enough to summon police," McGoey said. "As a rule of thumb, you don't want loss-prevention people tackling people and wrestling people onto the ground, and you certainly don't want them chasing people into parking lots."
Don... I Googled 'cities in harris county' and found both Humble and Atascocita were listed there. My son lives very close to Humble and if the medics took Driver to Humble, I assumed Atascocita was close as well. I remember passing FM1960 on my way to my son's house.
Mr. Task... I merely wanted to comment on the specific statements I 'highlighted', not the entire enchilada.
The 'youth' comment is a shot at Matt for the most part, as I'm seen as a 'dinosaur' and constantly reminded of my age. I wont let that rest either.
Edited to add that a figure of $50 million was tossed out as compensation. After doing some quick figuring, I find that to be just about 3.5 days worth of WallyWorld profit. Such a small price to pay on their part. Definately wont send a ripple thru that corporation. We send people to death for malicious death and I believe this falls under that heading. So maybe the government should shut WallyWorld down permanently. Personally, I wouldnt mind seeing that happen. A 'death penality' of sorts for a corporate entity that upholds thug-like actions against nickle-dime theives.
From an article...
quote
Texas law allows store employees to make a citizen's arrest as long as they have cause to do so, said Chris McGoey, president of McGoey Security Consulting in California. "You can use 'reasonable' force to recover merchandise or detain a person long enough to summon police," McGoey said. "As a rule of thumb, you don't want loss-prevention people tackling people and wrestling people onto the ground, and you certainly don't want them chasing people into parking lots."
He also is unfamiliar with Wal-Mart's policies, but he thinks the country's largest retailer would strictly prohibit chases and physical combat.
Also from the same article...
quote
Christi Gallagher, a Wal-Mart spokeswoman, declined repeated requests to discuss the retail chain's techniques for apprehending and detaining suspected shoplifters or whether it permits use of force against suspects. "We don't speak publicly about our security measures," she said.
My bet is she'll sing like a bird come court time. The entire corporation has to answer for this... not just the LPs involved or the store where they are employed.
[This message has been edited by FieroMojo (edited 08-16-2005).]
Ok MoJo, I guess it is Harris County. It's Cleveland that is in Liberty county. I think the San Jacinto River may be the county line. FM1960 was exactly that when I lived there. A farm to market road. All I remember about Humble is the artesian well, and there used to be a dragstrip at Humble and hiway 59. East Texas Dragway I think it was. Used to be an oil field twn, but not any more. That's 30+ yrs ago. 1960 runs around the east side of G. Bush airport, accross Lake Houston and down to Huffman. I guess all that area has grown by leaps & bounds since they built the airport.
Cleveland hasn't changed much tho. Still a sawmill town, even if there isn't much of a sawmill there anymore.
IP: Logged
10:56 PM
Aug 17th, 2005
Fastback 86 Member
Posts: 7849 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Sep 2003
My bet is on Heat Stroke. The outside temperature was hot, he had just been struggling with the LPs, was being held down on extremely hot asphault, and was breathing very hot air right above the very hot asphault (not to mention up to 5 LPs sitting on his back). It can happen to any body in the right situation, healthy, sober, or otherwise.
What I find disgusting is that the estimated 30 people standing around watching this did nothing but plead with the LPs to let him up. If they were all so sure that he was in serious medical jeopardy, why didn't anyone do anything? If I saw 5 guys holding down one who claimed he was unable to breath and appeared to be getting seriously hurt, I'd start putting my boots to some LP heads. I don't care if he stole the Mona Lisa, that kind of assault was uncalled for. Who was it that said something like "All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing?"
What I find disgusting is that the estimated 30 people standing around watching this did nothing but plead with the LPs to let him up. If they were all so sure that he was in serious medical jeopardy, why didn't anyone do anything? If I saw 5 guys holding down one who claimed he was unable to breath and appeared to be getting seriously hurt, I'd start putting my boots to some LP heads. I don't care if he stole the Mona Lisa, that kind of assault was uncalled for. Who was it that said something like "All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing?"
My buddies exact words when this came up tonight.
IP: Logged
02:24 AM
Steve Normington Member
Posts: 7663 From: Mesa, AZ, USA Registered: Apr 2001
Another thing that gets me is he is "suspected" of shoplifting. Now, as has been pointed out he couldn't have been carrying out a bag of diapers without it being obvious he had them, and if he'd stuffed a few down his pants, that would have become obvious after he was taken to the hospital. So what we have here is someone who is "suspected" of commiting a crime being killed while being apprehended. It's not like someone holding you at gunpoint or breaking into your house where the person is clearly commiting a crime. It's possible this man was innocent of any wrongdoing. Perhaps not likely, but possible.
He may have been clearly committing a crime. News agencies will always report that someone is "suspected" of committing a crime until/unless that person is convicted of that crime. So he could have be driving a forklift out of the store with a stolen pallet of diapers in full view of 20 cameras and the news would still say that he is suspected of shoplifting.
IP: Logged
03:06 AM
PFF
System Bot
Wichita Member
Posts: 20685 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
?! Do you have any proof for this claim, or you just have seen one too many afterschool specials about how it makes you go crazy..
"Tonight on fox news, a man was so charged on methamphetamine the voices told him to go steal diapers"..
I dunno, I could be wrong.. Just seems like a drug paranoid left field comment?
I'm just suspecting from what I've heard in the past on an issue similar. That is why I gave an example of why I thought it might be drugs. Everybody is guessing at the moment.
But! Going to a Wal-Mart without a shirt and stealing a box of diapers? Looks like somebody blew away the diaper money for an 8-ball. Then must resort to stealing it!
IP: Logged
06:57 AM
Tugboat Member
Posts: 1669 From: Goodview, VA Registered: Jan 2004
Originally posted by Wichita: I'm just suspecting from what I've heard in the past on an issue similar. That is why I gave an example of why I thought it might be drugs. Everybody is guessing at the moment.
But! Going to a Wal-Mart without a shirt and stealing a box of diapers? Looks like somebody blew away the diaper money for an 8-ball. Then must resort to stealing it!
Nice guess! Quite the charitable guy, aren't you?
I like the last post from Steve's link:
" As in the article posted by Christman refers to, this sounds like it will be a classic case of Positional Asphyxia.
When a handcufed subject, positioned on his stomache dies, Medical Examiners generally attribute the death in whole or in part to positional asphyxia resulting from respiratory compromise. It occurs when the position of the body interferes with the person's ability to breathe which produces oxygen deficiency (known as hypoxia) in the blood which disturbs the body's chemistry and creates the conditions for a fatal rhythm disturbance in the heart.
Most victims of positional asphyxia are obese and have large bellies which force the contents of the abdomen upward placing pressure on the diaphram preventing the subject from breathing. If there is added weight (i.e., someone kneeling or sitting atop the subject) the affects occur more rapidly.
LP personnel at all levels should be familiar with Positional Asphyxia and be trained that if it becomes necessary to bring someone to a prone position and subsequently handcuffed, they should be rolled over to their side or allowed to sit or stand up as soon as possible to eliminate this condition.
Over recent years several retailers have been defendants in wrongful death suits as a result of a suspected shoplifter's death by Positional Asphyxia. It's unfortunate because it is very preventable."
They killed him.
GL
[This message has been edited by Tugboat (edited 08-17-2005).]
IP: Logged
09:07 AM
Wichita Member
Posts: 20685 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
" As in the article posted by Christman refers to, this sounds like it will be a classic case of Positional Asphyxia.
When a handcufed subject, positioned on his stomache dies, Medical Examiners generally attribute the death in whole or in part to positional asphyxia resulting from respiratory compromise. It occurs when the position of the body interferes with the person's ability to breathe which produces oxygen deficiency (known as hypoxia) in the blood which disturbs the body's chemistry and creates the conditions for a fatal rhythm disturbance in the heart.
Most victims of positional asphyxia are obese and have large bellies which force the contents of the abdomen upward placing pressure on the diaphram preventing the subject from breathing. If there is added weight (i.e., someone kneeling or sitting atop the subject) the affects occur more rapidly.
LP personnel at all levels should be familiar with Positional Asphyxia and be trained that if it becomes necessary to bring someone to a prone position and subsequently handcuffed, they should be rolled over to their side or allowed to sit or stand up as soon as possible to eliminate this condition.
Over recent years several retailers have been defendants in wrongful death suits as a result of a suspected shoplifter's death by Positional Asphyxia. It's unfortunate because it is very preventable."
They killed him.
GL
OK! So he was killed! Charge the LP for Manslaughter and sue the Holy Bejesus out of Wal-Mart!
Nuff said!
IP: Logged
09:43 AM
Spektrum-87GT Member
Posts: 1601 From: Yorktown, VA Registered: Aug 2001
Good point. Maybe next time you're caught speeding 5 over, the cop will just shoot you in the head. If you hadn't been in your car, you wouldn't have gotten shot. Karma, baby.
Good point... I guess I wont get caught speeding... but thats the risk any one plays with when the break the law... sorry but its true.
IP: Logged
10:27 AM
dezie36 Member
Posts: 2501 From: Moved to Okemos, Mi, USA Registered: Feb 2005
Like I said, I’ve worked LP... its not a fun job by the way. But when you see a customer walk into the bathroom with 2 things, and walks out with one... you call your guys down on the floor and tell them to apprehend the guy at the men’s bathroom first floor. Now typically if you’ve done nothing wrong, LP will ask you a couple of questions and you’ll be on your way... innocent people stand there and talk tot he LP officer... now a guilty person on the other hand will take of... as he did.
Now Ill agree holding him on the ground to the point he was crying for is life is wrong, and the LP officers should be help up for manslaughter... but with my experience in the field... I can tell you 100% that if they thought he stole something then ya he did.
Don’t get me wrong here... I know they did wrong on both parties... but because this guy died every one here is saying how horrible it is... In reality he was probably a deadbeat dad, moms probably making meth in the basement and he’s stealing Huggys because hes too proud to go get help.
While working LP I help in apprehending (I worked cameras not the floor) 65 shop lifters (that’s in 1.5 years of doing it) and there were 3 type of people who stole from JCP (now Wal-Mart might be different but I doubt it) 1st was the most common teenagers getting a thrill, 2nd most common were drug addicts (trust me I can spot them a mile away), and 3rd were middle aged women (very few men) usually from a rich neighborhood who could afford the stuff the stole, but were again like the teenagers looking for excitement.
I tend believe he was the 2nd type... and his home situation should be looked into...because if he was the 2nd type... that child needs to be taken into custody.
IP: Logged
10:47 AM
Spektrum-87GT Member
Posts: 1601 From: Yorktown, VA Registered: Aug 2001
Originally posted by FieroMojo: Edited to add that a figure of $50 million was tossed out as compensation. After doing some quick figuring, I find that to be just about 3.5 days worth of WallyWorld profit. Such a small price to pay on their part. Definately wont send a ripple thru that corporation. We send people to death for malicious death and I believe this falls under that heading. So maybe the government should shut WallyWorld down permanently. Personally, I wouldnt mind seeing that happen. A 'death penality' of sorts for a corporate entity that upholds thug-like actions against nickle-dime theives.
I agree... I would love to see Wal-Mart dead... I try to vote with my wallet but it doesnt seem to be working
IP: Logged
10:53 AM
dezie36 Member
Posts: 2501 From: Moved to Okemos, Mi, USA Registered: Feb 2005
Why the heck would anyone want to work LP anyway? You've gotta have a screw loose.
That went with my whole thing of wanting to be a police officer... and at 17 it was the closest I could get... besides the Explorers weren’t letting me hand cuff people. Explorers is a national boy scout thing where you get to experience and train the job of your choice, there are explorer vets, mechanics, fire men ext... and I was in the Police one... worked with Oakland County Sheriffs Department for 4+ years, and got SWAT training, personal defense training... how to search a building... any way way off topic... I wanted to be a cop so I worked LP.
As for the stereotyping... that’s my observation from my personal experience... and I was working NOVI a prominent and rich area... Now if i was working Warren... I might give you a different set of stereotypes... but in my experience those are the 3 most common people who shoplift.
