quote Originally posted by dezie36:

see ya tomorrow...

ps - just admit the wanting to be a member of the almighty LEA is to bolster a Freudian 'receding hairline', if you will. I read a post from a link to a LP forum on this topic and lemme tell ya, its chilling to read 'I love the rush of sirens and squeeling cop tires'. Personally, I've lost a ton of respect for LP in general, at WallyWorld in particular. There is no way they can win this one. Not even with your help. [insert winky here as I have maxed out my limit of smilies.]

[wonders why theres a limit on smilies]

and you caused me to commit ownage of page 4...

[This message has been edited by FieroMojo (edited 08-19-2005).]

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: I've stated before and I'm not ashamed to do it again, I had a meth problem.

That explains A LOT.

Good job Johnny

quote Originally posted by dezie36:

I'd like to take a turn at dezie-style reasoning...

The diaper company and Wal Mart are the victims here. The multi billion dollar diaper company that sends Wal Mart and every other similar retail store in the country $10000 worth of diapers in every shipment. $13 is gonna bankrupt them. And Wal Mart, the corporation that makes more money in 10 minutes than most people do in their life times. Yeah, they're hurting real bad. But Fastback, you say, what if everyone just decided to steal diapers instead of paying for them? Well dezie, what if everyone decided to jump off a bridge? Its about as likely.

Now as for your speeding, I don't think its victimless at all. If you contend that one man trying to walk off with $13 worth of diapers could be in some way connected to taking food off a hard working diaper factory workers table, then I'd like to apply the same standard to the gas you're wasting. The faster you drive, the higher your RPMs are, and the more gas you're burning. All the time that you're speeding around, you're consuming more gas than everyone else who is NOT breaking the law and driving the posted speed limit. By your reasoning, we can then conclude that you are stealing gas from everyone else in Michigan. All that extra gas you're hogging could be going into some other poor SOBs tank to help him make it from home to work at the diaper factory and back everyday, at the speed limit of course. By your reasoning, everyone getting cheated out of gas by you should be well within their rights to run you off the freeway and into the nearest solid object. After all, you're breaking the law; you took the chance and must accept the consequences. And lets not forget the added wear and tear on MI roads caused by the greater frictional coefficient required to keep your car on the road at higher speeds, not to mention the extra pollution you're contributing and the stress you induce on other law abiding motorists when you speed by and create a hazerdous situation.

Face it dezie, you're reasoning is horribly fallacious and nothing more than self serving hogwash used to justify your hypocricy. If you're going to condemn someone else for minor infractions of the law, stop barely breaking laws yourself first. Otherwise, shut up.

[This message has been edited by Fastback 86 (edited 08-20-2005).]

quote Originally posted by DelawareFiero: That explains A LOT. Good job Johnny

And I'm still almost perfect.. Funny how things are overexaggerated on Fox. "Tonight. A man did crystal meth once and now is a horribly disfigured arson who is charged for double homocide".. riiiiiiight..

Anywyas.. So you should be shot for driving 5mph over the limit.. Oh wait, we only do that to laws that you personally don't break.. gotcha!

Last year I was conceited, this year I'm perfect...

quote Originally posted by Scott-Wa: Last year I was conceited, this year I'm perfect...

Last year I was almost perfect. This year I'm modest..

quote Originally posted by dezie36: 35million settlement ya I can see that too... and you know what if my family had nothing... Id gladly give my life to ensure they are set for theirs... esspically my child...

Setting a kid up for life has nothing to do with money. Some of the most balanced respectable people I know are from poor backgrounds. So now we have a kid growing up fatherless and a mother who probably wont recover from her loss for a very long time. Lets say mum takes to alcohol and drugs with all her new found wealth. Yeah, that is really going to make a great life for the kid. Setting him up for life is a loving caring family.

Remember, the only safe speed is zero. The probability that a kid will dart out in front of you is random, and doesn't change with speed. The probability that you'll hit the kid decreases with reduced speed, but then again there's always the probability they'll dart out in front of you close enough that you'll hit them no matter how slow you're going.

Besides, the probability of that happening on a major freeway is effectively zero. Why? Because the chance that you, one out of hundreds of thousands, is the one they dart out in front of is exceedingly small.

FWIW, parents, don't let your kids play on the freeway.

JazzMan

quote Originally posted by Liquid-Reality: Man held down on burning pavement until he died Wal-Mart loss prevention workers tackled a man suspected of stealing diapers - a new father with a two month old child - holding him down with a choke hold and knee to the back while he was shirtless on the scalding pavement of a Wal-Mart parking lot in Texas. The incident was witnessed by dozens of shoppers, including a prominent Texas attorney, Charles Portz:

Boy-O-boy. I'm glad I don't have any Walmart stocks. No doubt the loss prevention workers will be the first to receive the "boot."

In case you all dont know, about a fourth of the price your paying for stuff is what they added to cover the cost of stolen stuff. So think about what you would be paying out of your pocket at the store if no one stole anything. Somebody has to pay for it...you do.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: In case you all dont know, about a fourth of the price your paying for stuff is what they added to cover the cost of stolen stuff. So think about what you would be paying out of your pocket at the store if no one stole anything. Somebody has to pay for it...you do.

You obviously haven't taken a economics class. The prices of items are determined by supply and demand. I highly doubt there are enough items stolen to decrease supply enough to raise prices.

Example? Costco has a much lower shoplifting rate than sam's club... yet things are priced equally.

Stolen items affect company profits, NOT prices.

I'm not defending shoplifters, I'm just trying to get you to see through retailer's propaganda.

[This message has been edited by Spektrum-87GT (edited 08-21-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Spektrum-87GT: You obviously haven't taken a economics class. The prices of items are determined by supply and demand. I highly doubt there are enough items stolen to decrease supply enough to raise prices. Example? Costco has a much lower shoplifting rate than sam's club... yet things are priced equally. Stolen items affect company profits, NOT prices. I'm not defending shoplifters, I'm just trying to get you to see through retailer's propaganda.

And even if not, I'd rather pay that billionth of a cent, and you know, NOT have a man sauteed on the sidewalk..

Besides, if shrinkage is included in the price, you can bet any settlements for killing customers will also be passed along to consumers.

Shrink is an issue for another thread... You could write an encyclopedia about it. There are many reasons for shrink other than shoplifting.

A common example is when a cashier gives you a $20 product for $2 because they can't find the price on the item, in the computer or on the shelf. I've had this sort of thing happen at more than one store.

Then there is breakage of product in the store. People drop crap all the time. This includes the $6-8 an hour employees as well as the public.

Shrink is a "global" total that includes theft and examples like I just gave. Having worked in retail I can tell you it absolutely affects prices you pay as well as bottom line. Stores often don't dare jack prices enough to make up for all the shrink.

quote Originally posted by dezie36: So maybe stores should just have a sign saying “WARNING: STEALING COULD RESULT IN DEATH” There now any criminal who accidentally gets killed while trying to steal from someplace had proper knowledge what could happen to him for stealing.

But Walmart does have signs up saying you can face 5 years in jail for shopliting.
Maybe he was willing to accept that penalty.

It does not call for the death penalty.

Gene

According to NewsNet5:

"The death of Stacy Clay Driver, of Cleveland, Texas, was ruled a homicide by the Harris County Medical Examiner's Office. It was caused primarily by asphyxia from compression to the neck and chest."

Homicide. I hope those security goons take advantage of the Express Lane Death Row in Texas and go straight to the front of the line.

I also hope Wal-Mart has to pay buttloads of damages. There's no excuse for this crap. Once the person is subdued, there was no need to sit on his neck and continue to hold him on burning asphalt. Handcuff him to a bench or pole and wait for the cops. (or use tie wraps if you don't have handcuffs)

quote Originally posted by Spektrum-87GT: You obviously haven't taken a economics class. The prices of items are determined by supply and demand. I highly doubt there are enough items stolen to decrease supply enough to raise prices

And you would be dead wrong. Any of the places Ive ever worked that had retail parts had the cost of thefts added in. It may not be broken down like for store utilities, theft, building maintanence, ect item by item. But I guarantee you its figured in. BTW, my degree i got when I was in the air force was in economics... One reason my businesses have all been successful for manyyyyy years.

So your all saying that if this guy stole diapers, they should let him get away with them, tell everyone he knows so everyone from then on steals diapers.............. .........and the store should be OK with that ?

Banks have tons of cash, it wont hurt them if I rob them out of a few thousand. No one gets hurt and I get my free money. They shouldnt chase me or stop me, I had car payments that were late.

sheesh

quote Originally posted by JKFIERO: My thoughts exactly. If it were true, and made any legit media sources, CNN or FOX would have been all over it. No amount of money would have stopped them from a headline story.

Did it ever occour to you that it might not be true?

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: So your all saying that if this guy stole diapers, they should let him get away with them, tell everyone he knows so everyone from then on steals diapers.............. .........and the store should be OK with that ?

Course not.. They should kill him..

And then those people should rot in jail for the rest of their lives. The latter I agree with.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Homicide. I hope those security goons take advantage of the Express Lane Death Row in Texas and go straight to the front of the line.

Don't count on charges being filed yet. Accroding to this news report:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3485941.html

Even the others who have been killed by security guards and it was ruled a homicide, never had charges filed. This one has a little more info. Seems he had Meth in his system as well.

quote Originally posted by larryemory: Did it ever occour to you that it might not be true?

That was my point exactly.

Until I see it on MAJOR...RESPECTABLE (ABC, NBC, FOX, CNN, MSNBC..ect) networks or channels, then to me, it is all just an interesting story.

"A shoplifter is a thief, no question, but the penalty for that is not the death penalty," said John H. Christman, a retail-security expert.

nor is meth use a capital crime. i'm sure the legal system has punishments deemed appropriate for theft of disposable diapers.

looks like excessive force and manslaughter to me. where they afraid he was going to run back in, steal a boltcutter, and cut off his handcuffs?

[This message has been edited by lurker (edited 11-28-2005).]

quote Originally posted by lurker: ....nor is meth use a capital crime.

No it is not but when someone is "amped up" sometimes more force is necessary. It does seem to me undue force was used. I did not re-read the whole post but think I remember a doctor on the scene being prevented from helping.
We were not there however.

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: Course not.. They should kill him..

And they did..........so we agree.

Although even I admit that the resulting punishment didnt fit the crime. They caught him and restrained him....they just carried it a little far and resulted in an accidental death in my book. The guys stripping cars in my lot that got me to shoot it and it burned could have died if they stayed in the blazing car too. Would I have felt sorry if they didnt get out....not one tiny chance.

I think the key is whether or not it was accidental.
If they were restraining him and caused him injury resulting in death, that could be an accident.
However, reports indicated he was already restrained, was not fighting and was begging to be let off the pavement and cuffed to a bench, etc. Bystanders told the guards they were killing him and begged them to let him up.

Tackling someone and breaking their neck in the process may be an accident.
Sitting on someone's neck for 30 minutes on hot asphalt doesn't sound like an accident to me.

Did the "intend" to kill him? Probably not. So, it may not be First Degree Murder.
I think the guards should be tried for murder - or manslaughter at the very least.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 11-30-2005).]

K, Ill give you that