Wal-Mart LP's Kill Suspected Shoplifter

Posted by retailworker at 08/13/2005 - 15:53

Man held down on burning pavement until he died

Wal-Mart loss prevention workers tackled a man suspected of stealing diapers - a new father with a two month old child - holding him down with a choke hold and knee to the back while he was shirtless on the scalding pavement of a Wal-Mart parking lot in Texas.

The incident was witnessed by dozens of shoppers, including a prominent Texas attorney, Charles Portz:

Charles Portz said he was getting out of his car when he saw a heavy blonde haired man being chased by five people who appeared to be security or store employees. He said he saw them wrestling the man to the ground. "The blacktop was extremely hot," said Portz "He had no shirt on and they wouldn't let him up off the blacktop." He said one of the men had Driver in a chokehold and had his knee in the back of his neck as the men tried to subdue him. "He kept trying to get up and they kept pushing him back down," Portz said.

According to Portz, Driver began to plead with them men. "He's begging, 'Please call an ambulance, let me up, do something, I'm gonna die," said Portz. He said the loss prevention employees called the police more than once, but another bystander called for an ambulance after realizing Driver was in trouble. Portz said he eventually began to plead with the Walmart employees. "I told them, this guy doesn't look like he's breathing," Portz said, "They said, 'He's all right." He says he continued to plead with the men, pointing out that the man's fingernails were turning gray. "They said he's just high on something," adding, "They just kept him pinned down for twenty minutes or more until the ambulance came." He said he believed Driver was dead when the ambulance left with him, but he was not certain.

The store employees could not have known that the witness who was pleading with them to let Driver get up from the hot pavement was a high profile Houston attorney, from the Portz and Portz law firm. He said after the man was handcuffed he continued trying in vain to persuade the Walmart employees to allow him to get up, even pointing out that a second pair of cuffs could be used to attach the ones already on Driver to a nearby truck trailer. "The problem is they kept him down on the blistering concrete with no shirt on," Portz reiterated. He said law enforcement arrived at about the same time as the ambulance.

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what heartless bastards.

So did he steal diapers or not?

Figures.

I hate wal*mart.

http://www.retailworker.com/node/16756

Here is a link to a site that is talking about this subject.

Well its safe to say that the family of that man wil be set for life. Wally World is fxing to shell out mega bucks for this.

i hope his family owns wal-mart. on the other hand who goes into wal-mart with out a shirt on and tries to steal diapers? those things are so big i can't even get the jumbo pack of luv's in the trunk of my fiero.

The world's most profitable retailer kills a man over a box of diapers.
Forget the civil settlements--criminal charges are in order.

Maybe its just because I have lost count of how many times I have been victimized by thieves, but I am having a hard time mustering up any sympathy for this guy. He stole from the store, and resisted being restrained by the security. Do stupid **** like that and you take your chances. I also can't help but feel that he must have had some sort of prior medical condition that contributed to his death. I guess time will tell once and autopsy is performed.

I do feel sorry for his family though, especially his newborn who is going to grow up fatherless because he daddy chose to be a thief.

[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 08-15-2005).]

Do tell me those security jerks were arrested for murder?
Not only should Wal-Mart be held liable for his death, but those guards should be tried for 1st degree murder, and an express ticket to death row.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: You ever laid down on black top asphalt with your bare skin in the middle of the summer? It can cook your skin right off. It's not much different from being held down to a grill. That pavement easily gets over 140°F. He resisted because of the pain. He could have been in perfect medical condition, but if you're held to a scalding surface long enough, and in a choke hold to boot, you're going to die. Since you're from Canada, you might not realize just how hot asphalt can get in the Southern U.S.

Ouch - no I didn't realize that. Up here even in the middle of summer you can stroll around barefoot on the streets if you so want to. If this is the case, the security guys definitely did go too far.

[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 08-15-2005).]

but it says "suspected"... I think it would be pretty obvious whether he was stealing diapers or not... Either they're on him or in his car, or they're not. I think they just "suspected" him, but he was not a shoplifter.

It's no joke. When I was a kid, and went to the pool, I didn't have any shoes with me, and just running across the blacktop to the pool gave me 2nd degree burns on the soles of my feet. Now, granted, I was just a kid and definitely a tenderfoot, but I also was running, so I was touching the pavement as little as possible, and not being pressed into it by two full grown men.

This man was essentially burned and choked to death. If the account in the story is accurate, the guards continued to hold him on the pavement after he was cuffed and under control. That should get them first degree murder, IMO. I don't care what he stole.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not soft on criminals. If someone breaks into your house, I believe you have the right to shoot them dead. But in this case, it appears he was already subdued. There was no further threat, yet they refused to let him up.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 08-15-2005).]

ain't like you wouldn't be able to notice. no shirt on, that would be a BIG bulge in his pants. i guess this is why i never became a cop. if i saw somebody stealing $13.77 diapers i figure they need 'em.

quote Originally posted by loafer87gt: Ouch - no I didn't realize that. Up here even in the middle of summer you can stroll around barefoot on the streets if you so want to. If this is the case, the security guys definitely did go too far.

If you stroll around barefoot on blacktop around here in the middle of summer you're going to need skin grafts, at a minimum.

Though first degree murder is out of the question in this case, criminally neglegent homicide or manslaughter are definite possibilities. Assault charges are also very likely because security guards have no special permission to assault people in Texas.

JazzMan

What was he doing in a store that sells food with out a shirt on?
Ive worked LP... if they think he stole something ya then he probably did... The cameras at JCP can see the date on a penney on the floor...

I feel bad for his wife... and for his son... but sorry you did something wrong... you paid the price... just this time the price was your life. so no I dont feel any sorrow for him... sorry.

Its a lesson to us all... There are people in LP and Police possitions that have a power complex and wont be the nicest people if they think youve done wrong... so dont give them a reason.

Ya first Degree wont happen... theres no premedation here... now involuntary manslaughter, ya I can see that... 35million settlement ya I can see that too... and you know what if my family had nothing... Id gladly give my life to ensure they are set for theirs... esspically my child...

quote Originally posted by dezie36: What was he doing in a store that sells food with out a shirt on? Ive worked LP... if they think he stole something ya then he probably did... The cameras at JCP can see the date on a penney on the floor... I feel bad for his wife... and for his son... but sorry you did something wrong... you paid the price... just this time the price was your life. so no I dont feel any sorrow for him... sorry. Its a lesson to us all... There are people in LP and Police possitions that have a power complex and wont be the nicest people if they think youve done wrong... so dont give them a reason. Ya first Degree wont happen... theres no premedation here... now involuntary manslaughter, ya I can see that... 35million settlement ya I can see that too... and you know what if my family had nothing... Id gladly give my life to ensure they are set for theirs... esspically my child...

Dezie where the heck would he stick the diapers if he was stealing them? In his PANTS? I had no shirt on, and a member already pointed out containers of diapers are even big for a Fiero trunk. They said "suspected" shoplifter, I would say with diapers he was either stealing them or he wasn't, if he was he'd have to be running out of the store with them in his arms or in a cart under some stuff. It would be obvious if he was stealing them, and even if he was that was too much force used. Its sad, a kid is without a father because a couple of Wal-Mart LP's decided to cook his father on a Wal-Mart parking lot over some $10.00 diapers.

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I am the signature virus, please put me in your signature so I can spread

[This message has been edited by Tinton (edited 08-16-2005).]

My guess if they were trained. that they were told to keep the guy on the ground but were to stupid that not every situation was in thier training manual.

what the hell is wrong with some of you.. "He was stealing, he deserves to die".. I agree with some of the more rational posters.. forget money, I'd only be content if these assholes go to jail for a long long time.. But I'm sure they won't, and it will be bought out.. ****ing assholes.

Read the link posted above.. Some of those responses are going to keep me awake tonight..

[This message has been edited by JohnnyK (edited 08-16-2005).]

heck if we killed everyone who stole something in this country we wouldn't need abortion. don't take this the wrong way but everyone steals. i know know not everyone "works" while they are at work and that is stealing time. just think what we should to to those emron guys who wiped out people's whole retirements. people do what they "think" they can get away with. some people are smarter than others but you don't here about them..cause they don't get caught.

quote Originally posted by Tinton: Dezie where the heck would he stick the diapers if he was stealing them? In his PANTS? I had no shirt on, and a member already pointed out containers of diapers are even big for a Fiero trunk. They said "suspected" shoplifter, I would say with diapers he was either stealing them or he wasn't, if he was he'd have to be running out of the store with them in his arms or in a cart under some stuff. It would be obvious if he was stealing them, and even if he was that was too much force used. Its sad, a kid is without a father because a couple of Wal-Mart LP's decided to cook his father on a Wal-Mart parking lot over some $10.00 diapers.

He could simply have ripped open a case of huggys and stuffed a couple down his pants... the story never specifis how many.

People no he didnt diserve to die for stealing some pampers... BUT and this is a big but... if the dumb ass wasnt in walmart stealing in the first place he wouldnt be dead. Its Karma baby... he did something wrong and the powers that be decided this was his punishment.

Im not saying that one should be put to death for stealing... but if your going to commit a crime you should be ready for what ever punishment is dealt... I dont think you should be shot in the head for sleeping with a mans wife... but if your caught in the act by a jelious one... you just might.

Thats all im saying... sorry to piss so many off... but thats how I feel about people commit crimes... there are people who do much more evil things and get off... the man (drunk) who hit my mother at 2pm on a tuesday got off with a slap on the wrist... my mother spent over 10 years recovering from the accadent... and he gets almost no punishment... then you get a guy like driver where he commited a small act but gets a punishement worthy of a larger crime... but thats the world and you have to be ready for it.

That is why it is most store policies to just let the suspected shoplifter go. $20-$100 in merchandise stolen is a lot better than some hero wannbe LP chasing after a guy and injuring him. The lawsuit, even if he stole the item will be a bigger loss to the corporation than the theft. States even have laws that state that once that suspected shoplifter leaves the store that the store cannot chase after and apprehend the individual. Furthermore, under Minnesota state law, it is illegal for a store to search your bag or prevent you from waliking out of a store. The LP in Minnesota cannot use physical force to search you. The store can ban you from ever entering their store again.

If, on the few occassions I go to Walmart, the sensors go off as I walk out of the store, I continue to walk and ignore the POS LPs. I know I didn't steal anything.

Something doesn't sound right. This story could be accurate, but it doesn't sound like standard protocol.

Yes! If you steal something from Wal-Mart or any retail store, they will tackle you to the ground. I've seen this happened right before my eyes. But Wal-Mart always has at least three or so guys working at any given time. Just as the story said: Five Wal-Mart LP guys.

Once they tackle you down, then they pick you up and take you to their lost prevention room.

This story doesn't sound right! First of all... They wouldn't leave you on the ground and wait for the cops if you weren't violent.

Two: Pavement might be hot and you might get a little burned but I doubt it can kill you.

I really think something else killed this guy and I'm going to say it's drugs.

I remember an incident happening here in my city with a Police Officer. Routine traffic stop of a man and his wife. The man was being a bit hostle, so the officer tackled him down and put some hand cuffs on him. When he went to lift the guy off the ground, he died.

The wife sued big time, saying the cop was beating on him and etc. Coroner said the guy died from a drug overdose enduced heart attack. The adrenaline rush can spark the heart attack. The police officer was found not gulity and that was it.

I think this guy died from the same condition. A drug overdose enduced heart attack sparked by an adrenaline rush from being tackled and apprehended.

I think Charles Portz, the attorney, is just looking for a paycheck on this one.

We will see! I bet we don't hear about this story after this, after the coroner's report.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Sorry! But the parking lot is still Wal-Marts property! If you leave the store, they can tackle you outside in the parking lot. Wal-Mart gets sued like 30 times a day. They don't care, they want the message. I remember watching the evening news about Wal-Mart paying millions of dollars to the Federal Govenrment for their hiring of illegals to clean their stores... You wanna know something and it is shocking. They said that all the millions they paid (forgot the amount I think it was around $30 million), Wal-Mart made it back with their profits, not revenue, the profits in 11 minutes.

Yep, it is. And if you injure a person on your property, you're liable and you're charged with assault. Most LPs only have a "hunch" someone stole something out of their store. A "hunch" does not allow you to wrongfully endanger and apprehend another citizen.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: Two: Pavement might be hot and you might get a little burned but I doubt it can kill you. I really think something else killed this guy and I'm going to say it's drugs.

It doesn't get that hot in MY neighborhood; It COULDN'T have happened there!

GL

No shirt? Perhaps it was pulled off him in the struggle? Ever see or participate in a fight? sometimes one of them play dirty and try to pull the shirt over the other guys head.

quote Originally posted by dezie36: Im not saying that one should be put to death for stealing... but if your going to commit a crime you should be ready for what ever punishment is dealt... I dont think you should be shot in the head for sleeping with a mans wife... but if your caught in the act by a jelious one... you just might.

Good point. Maybe next time you're caught speeding 5 over, the cop will just shoot you in the head. If you hadn't been in your car, you wouldn't have gotten shot. Karma, baby.

This is common place with Wal-Mart.

I used to work for them and that it was typical for LP to have 5 guys pin a guy down on the hot pavement. I remember seeing one time where one LP worker was basically standing on someones face.

So this has been over a week...anyone in the area heard anything about the autopsy results? Shouldn't even toxicology results be back in a week?

Warning Glib remark follows...

Well, it was Texas and they do have the death penalty. Even for people they know are innocent as long as they got a technically fair trial. This is just streamlining the process a bit.

Actually I suspect like Wichita that he probably suffered a drug side effect. If he was burning to death I would suspect the smell alone of scalding flesh would have had them pulling him off the asphalt/concrete. Sucks for all involved, for the employees they would be in that situation if someone wasn't attempting to flee from a theft. For the shoplifter, he wouldn't be dead if he'd gone to a local charity that would have given him diapers.

I agree that the LP workers need to be charged with murder or manslaughter.

It doesn't matter if he was on drugs or not, they killed him.

[This message has been edited by Spektrum-87GT (edited 08-16-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Spektrum-87GT: I agree that the LP workers need to be charged with murder or manslaughter. It doesn't matter if he was on drugs or not, they killed him.

So if a waiter serves a guest food, and the guest chokes on it and dies, the waiter should be charged with murder? I think those guys were doing their job and should not be responsible for it. There are consequences to every action, some more extreme than others. While I'm not advocating that the guy deserved to die, he should have been aware of what could have happened. As someone mentioned, he could just as easily gone to a charity and recieved them for free. Its also sad to say that the family is going to suffer 'mental anguish' and get beacoup bux for a settlement. I would love to see the autopsy or toxicology report on this one.

quote Originally posted by dezie36: People no he didnt diserve to die for stealing some pampers... BUT and this is a big but... if the dumb ass wasnt in walmart stealing in the first place he wouldnt be dead. Its Karma baby... he did something wrong and the powers that be decided this was his punishment.

I agree with you dezie on this one...

[This message has been edited by RandomTask (edited 08-16-2005).]

I doubt he completely burned to death, but being burnt by the asphalt, while under a choke hold could easily cause duress enough to cause a heart attack, even if he's healthy and not under the influence of any drugs. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I guess what disturbs me most about this is not that he died, but the manner in which he died. It would be one thing if they were trying to stop him and he got killed in a fight, but once they had the cuffs on him, his ability to fight was severly diminished. Once the threat was over, and they continued to keep him pinned until he died. That's what really gets me. If they'd pulled him up as soon as they subdued him and he still died, I doubt I'd be as compassionate towards him.

Another thing that gets me is he is "suspected" of shoplifting. Now, as has been pointed out he couldn't have been carrying out a bag of diapers without it being obvious he had them, and if he'd stuffed a few down his pants, that would have become obvious after he was taken to the hospital. So what we have here is someone who is "suspected" of commiting a crime being killed while being apprehended. It's not like someone holding you at gunpoint or breaking into your house where the person is clearly commiting a crime. It's possible this man was innocent of any wrongdoing. Perhaps not likely, but possible.

There's got to be more to the story than we've heard. The whole thing just sickens me.

quote So if a waiter serves a guest food, and the guest chokes on it and dies, the waiter should be charged with murder? I think those guys were doing their job and should not be responsible for it. There are consequences to every action, some more extreme than others. While I'm not advocating that the guy deserved to die, he should have been aware of what could have happened. As someone mentioned, he could just as easily gone to a charity and recieved them for free. Its also sad to say that the family is going to suffer 'mental anguish' and get beacoup bux for a settlement. I would love to see the autopsy or toxicology report on this one.

So, where in the laws does it give an LP the right to undue force to restrain an individual? What laws give the LP the right to restrain and indivdual? What laws shield him from assault and battery? A Loss Prevention person is one step below a Toy Cop. They are not authorized by any laws anymore force than a customer in that store. A Loss Prevention jerkoff is not a police officer. They don't have the training or authority of a police officer.

quote Originally posted by aceman: So, where in the laws does it give an LP the right to undue force to restrain an individual? What laws give the LP the right to restrain and indivdual? What laws shield him from assault and battery? A Loss Prevention person is one step below a Toy Cop. They are not authorized by any laws anymore force than a customer in that store. A Loss Prevention jerkoff is not a police officer. They don't have the training or authority of a police officer.

Agreed, the one's I worked with at wal-mart were complete ass-hats(for lack of a better term).

quote Originally posted by RandomTask: I agree with you dezie on this one...

well, maybe your girlfriend will be jaywalking one day and a car will plow her over.. She should have used a crosswalk.. Tough beans for her.. It's a small crime, yeah, but she knew the consequences.

quote Originally posted by Spektrum-87GT: I agree that the LP workers need to be charged with murder or manslaughter. It doesn't matter if he was on drugs or not, they killed him.

I concur. WallyWorld would have taken his money whether he was under the influence or not. It's all about money.

quote Originally posted by RandomTask: So if a waiter serves a guest food, and the guest chokes on it and dies, the waiter should be charged with murder?

Only if the waiter force-fed the guest to the point of choking. I think you totally missed the point here.

quote Originally posted by RandomTask: [snip] [/snip] I would love to see the autopsy or toxicology report on this one.

Why? What difference would it make? Once they had him apprehended and handcuffed, they are to simply detain him. There were other detention methods pointed out to them while they had him cuffed AND physically held to the ground. They did not listen. This is where they failed and Wally will have to cough up big for this one.

quote Originally posted by dezie36: People no he didnt diserve to die for stealing some pampers... BUT and this is a big but... if the dumb ass wasnt in walmart stealing in the first place he wouldnt be dead. Its Karma baby... he did something wrong and the powers that be decided this was his punishment.

quote Originally posted by RandomTask: I agree with you dezie on this one...

The alleged facts, as they are known to this date, are that he entered the store with previously purchased items and, upon gathering similar but more expensive items, headed to the restroom, swapped purchase lables, and left. Now tell me that they 'saw' him do this. If there are cameras in the restrooms, God help them.
Apparently you didnt read all there was to read about this situation. Your youth is showing.

quote Originally posted by Wichita: I really think something else killed this guy and I'm going to say it's drugs.

?! Do you have any proof for this claim, or you just have seen one too many afterschool specials about how it makes you go crazy..

"Tonight on fox news, a man was so charged on methamphetamine the voices told him to go steal diapers"..

I dunno, I could be wrong.. Just seems like a drug paranoid left field comment?

quote Originally posted by JohnnyK: well, maybe your girlfriend will be jaywalking one day and a car will plow her over.. She should have used a crosswalk.. Tough beans for her.. It's a small crime, yeah, but she knew the consequences.

But this is where common sense kicks in. Would you run across heavy traffic? If she ran across heavy traffic and decided to J-walk, yeah, tough beans for her but I chose to date girls with slightly higher intelligence than that.

My cousin was killed a couple of years ago. He was 15 and with his friends walking to McDonalds when a 7 time previously convicted drunk driver smashed into him and two of his friends. My cousin was killed instantly, his friend is a permanant vegtable (Terri Shiavo like), and the third suffered multiple broken bones. The driver recieved 2 years of jail time and was released . My cousin was walking on the sidewalk and never even saw it coming. My uncle sued the driver for $1million and was only awarded $200,000. This walmart guys family is going to walk away with millions. Tell me where the justice is in this?

[This message has been edited by RandomTask (edited 08-16-2005).]