"King's College, London, just out put their latest PDF report on rates of imprisonment in the world. The rates are given as the number of prison inmates per 100,000 people in the population at large. It's pretty staggering that by far the highest rates of imprisonment occur in the U.S. The U.S. rate is 724 for every 100,000 people - up from 505 in 1992. Of major countries, the only close competitor is Russia with 581, and Cuba at 487. Iran and Israel, to give examples of countries with internal conflict, clock in at 206 and 209 respectively. Most major U.S. allies are in the 130 range or lower." "I'm not sure what any of this proves. But this much we can say: the land of the free is also the land of the unfree. Millions of them. Texas, by the way, has an imprisonment rate of well over 1,000. There's no country on the planet - no dictatorship on earth - as confortable with locking people up as the state of Texas. The detention policies of the current administration may be more understandable in this context."
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE STATISTICS - On December 31, 2001, 1,962,220 prisoners were held in Federal or State prisons or in local jails -- the total increased 1.3% from yearend 2000, less than the average annual growth of 3.6% since yearend 1995. There were an estimated 470 prison inmates per 100,000 U.S. residents -- up from 292 at yearend 1990. The number of women under the jurisdiction of State or Federal prison authorities decreased -0.2% from December 31, 2000 to December 31, 2001, reaching 93,031. The number of men rose 1.2%, totaling 1,313,000 at yearend.
------------------ '94 Bonneville SSEi - 115k Law of Mechanical Repair: After your hands become coated with grease, your nose will begin to itch or you'll have to pee... never fails.
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06:04 PM
Scott-Wa Member
Posts: 5392 From: Tacoma, WA, USA Registered: Mar 2002
I actually call it success. Although probably many of them are non-violent drug offenders, but the incarseration numbers is a contribute to our success in capturing and prosecuting criminals.
Many nations, the criminal element gets away with everything.
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06:17 PM
Scott-Wa Member
Posts: 5392 From: Tacoma, WA, USA Registered: Mar 2002
Here it's just the ones with money that get away with everything. The rest spend time in jail regardless of guilt or innocence because they can't afford to fight the charges.
I actually call it success. Although probably many of them are non-violent drug offenders, but the incarseration numbers is a contribute to our success in capturing and prosecuting criminals.
Many nations, the criminal element gets away with everything.
Wow, with that logic it's perfectly clear that countries like Cliff's own Netherlands and Aus's Australia are complete failures over-ridden with criminals running wild through the streets.
JazzMan
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06:22 PM
frontal lobe Member
Posts: 9042 From: brookfield,wisconsin Registered: Dec 1999
Here it's just the ones with money that get away with everything. The rest spend time in jail regardless of guilt or innocence because they can't afford to fight the charges.
So it would be a good thing that the ones without money get away with things, too?
And what percent of people right now do you think are innocent, but in jail because they didn't have money to prove their innocence?
And did you think a system run by humans was going to be perfect? I think it ought to be a highly sought after goal to be perfect. But even if the entire system was run by clones of Scott-Wa, would it be perfect? And because it can't be perfect, should we not have it? Because if it isn't perfect, then by definition, it isn't fair.
And these statistics are about IMPRISONMENT rates. What about the people that are criminals but don't actually get themselves into prison?
It says, "I'm not sure what any of this proves...". Well, it shows that if people are just prosperous enough and educated enough, they will just treat each other well? Doesn't look that way.
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06:34 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Right... With almost half the entire worlds prison population being American show me how much better off we are as a people by imprisoning drug users. I can still stroll down the street and get me a "rock."
Yes, violent crime is down and so is the murder rate so yes in that respect it MAY be working. However, your "deterrent" isn't working with drug users. The "Land of the Free" is more like the land of the intolerant and harsh as our country leads the way in imprisoning it's populace over casual drug use. Nice.. really nice.
quote
Originally posted by Wichita:
Some people call it a Human Rights issue.
I actually call it success. Although probably many of them are non-violent drug offenders, but the incarseration numbers is a contribute to our success in capturing and prosecuting criminals.
Many nations, the criminal element gets away with everything.
Wow, with that logic it's perfectly clear that countries like Cliff's own Netherlands and Aus's Australia are complete failures over-ridden with criminals running wild through the streets.
JazzMan
Country Incarceration Rate/100K
Russia 690
United States 730
Belarus 505
Ukraine 390
Latvia 375
Lithuania 360
Singapore 287
Moldova 275
Estonia 270
South Africa 265
Cook Islands 225
Hong Kong 207
Romania 200
Czech Republic 190
Thailand 181
Poland 170
Slovakia 150
South Korea 137
Kiribati 130
New Zealand 127
Portugal 125
Fiji 123
Hungary 120
Canada 115
Luxembou 115
Bulgaria 110
Scotland 110
Brunei Darussal 110
Macau 107
Spain 105
Northern Ireland 105
Malaysia 104
China 103
England/Wales 100
France 95
Germany 85
Italy 85
Austria 85
Turkey 80
Switzerland 80
Belgium 75
Netherlands 65
Sweden 65
Denmark 65
Finland 60
Greece 55
Croatia 55
Norway 55
Ireland 55
Malta 55
Solomon Islands 46
Iceland 40
Japan 37
Bangladesh 37
Slovenia 30
Cyprus 30
Philippines 26
Cambodia 26
India 24
Austrialla didn't report.
That said. I think it's the Bush Administration that is putting leftist in prison. It's a conspriacy I tell ya!
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07:05 PM
PFF
System Bot
carnut122 Member
Posts: 9122 From: Waleska, GA, USA Registered: Jan 2004
How many of those countries have lower rates due to capital punishment? How many of those countries have lower rates due to respect for the law and the legal system? How many of those countries have lower rates due to a general sense of r-e-s-p-e-c-t? Also, is there something to be said about incarcerating people during their most fertile years? Will this, in the end, lead to still lower rates in the future? What? That's politically incorrect? Crime and criminality doesn't run in families? Have you studied the street gang culture? How about the Mafia? Yep, all questions and no answers! I'll let you decide the answers on your own!
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08:00 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Right... With almost half the entire worlds prison population being American show me how much better off we are as a people by imprisoning drug users. I can still stroll down the street and get me a "rock."
Yes, violent crime is down and so is the murder rate so yes in that respect it MAY be working. However, your "deterrent" isn't working with drug users. The "Land of the Free" is more like the land of the intolerant and harsh as our country leads the way in imprisoning it's populace over casual drug use. Nice.. really nice.
The drug laws in this country are bullshit. I'd like someone to explain to me how alcohol can be legal, with all the problems it causes health and DUI deaths on the road, but drugs are worse? Bull. Prohibition didn't work, you say? Fine - the "war on drugs" ain't cutting it, either. Legalize 'em all. If people want to drink/smoke/snort themselves to death, let 'em.
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08:58 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
How many of those countries have lower rates due to capital punishment? How many of those countries have lower rates due to respect for the law and the legal system? How many of those countries have lower rates due to a general sense of r-e-s-p-e-c-t? Also, is there something to be said about incarcerating people during their most fertile years? Will this, in the end, lead to still lower rates in the future? What? That's politically incorrect? Crime and criminality doesn't run in families? Have you studied the street gang culture? How about the Mafia? Yep, all questions and no answers! I'll let you decide the answers on your own!
I'd submit that the U.S. is the free-est country on earth, with the most reasonable justice system. Too many people abuse that freedom and leniency, and that's why the jails are so crowded.
Originally posted by fierobear: The drug laws in this country are bullshit. I'd like someone to explain to me how alcohol can be legal, with all the problems it causes health and DUI deaths on the road, but drugs are worse? Bull. Prohibition didn't work, you say? Fine - the "war on drugs" ain't cutting it, either. Legalize 'em all. If people want to drink/smoke/snort themselves to death, let 'em.
Large-scale imprisonment also results in growing numbers of families and communities experiencing the ripple effects of incarceration. Currently, there are an estimated 1.5 million children who have a parent in prison17; for African American children, the figures are one of every fourteen, and over the course of childhood, these figures would be considerably higher. Thus, a record number of children are now growing up with the stigma of having a parent in prison, along with the loss of emotional and financial support as well.
Can you say welfare recipient?
And this
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Finally, in recent years we have witnessed the effects of imprisonment policies on support for vital services. As states grapple with the fiscal crisis, they are now confronted with the results of decades of “get tough” policies that have swollen the prison population, creating a $40 billion corrections system. At the state level, spending on prisons is now competing directly with support for higher education and other vital services. It is increasingly clear that a commitment to a large-scale prison system entails sacrifices in other areas of community life.
