What ever

Yea lots, family and stuff.
In Iraq I saw way to many. Some friends some enemys, but it changes you when you see it. It changes you more when you see it done in a violent manner.
We had an attack at the abu ghraib prison where I was at. April 22, 04, never forget it. I was in the prisoner compound when rockets came in and they were walked across the compound holding detainees. The guys who wanted us dead. There were approximately 22 Iraqis KIA and over 100 seriously wounded. It was like i went into robot mode when we had to clean them up in the following min. and provide first aid. Nothing I ever wanted to do, but something i still reflect on. Hard to tell it changes you immediately after, but given time, you can realize it. The ones that hurt worse though are when you see your fellow soldiers. That really changes you. If you've never seen a dead person, your lucky. If you've never seen a violent death, your even more lucky. If you've never seen a violent death WHEN it happened your also really lucky.

[This message has been edited by DR650SE (edited 02-12-2006).]

It's worse when it's a child.......... for me anyway.

Speaking of it changing you,
I was about 10 in a Church bus on the way back from somewhere, we came across a really bad accident in the mountains A Pickup truck had flipped over and the driver was decapitated, the body somehow ended up behind the seat. They had stopped traffic, and an entire bus load of kids ( prolly 20) were stuck right next to the truck while they cut the truck up, then pried the body out from behind the seat. I'm sure I'm not the only one that had nightmares for a long time. Damn local cop shoulda sent us on through, we were a bunch of kids in a church bus for crying out loud, I can still remember the Pastor " Thats what happens when you drink" And I don't think it was a DWI. Just pushing his anti alcohol ideals. What an ass. Anyway,
Carry on, Brad

A friend of mine is a mortician. She said it's never bothered her until they had a newborn they had to prepare. I forgot why the baby died, but she said the baby looked perfect - no outward sign of any medical problems at all. THAT one got to everyone. Even when you deal with death for a living, some things you never get used to.

Try waking up and your wife passed away in her sleep. It took me almost a year befoe I could sleep with the lights off. Haven't been to a funeral since hers. I stood in a receiving line for about 3 hours. The smell of the flowers was sickening. Can't even go into a flower shop anymore.

quote Originally posted by BENGAL4: I stood in a receiving line for about 3 hours. The smell of the flowers was sickening. Can't even go into a flower shop anymore.

I know what you mean. You get SO sick of hearing people tell you they're sorry.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: I know what you mean. You get SO sick of hearing people tell you they're sorry.

People say "I don't know what to say". I say you dont have to say anything. Let the grieving person talk. That helps them and everyone else..

3 people - my Grandfather on my father's side when I was 10, my Grandmother on my mother's side when I was 14, and my Mother when I was 16. It really changes you, I hate looking in open caskets, I don't think I will ever again. The image sticks with you for a while, its better to remember the person as they were when they were alive. It really gives you perspective, especially when you're young. I'm 20 now and I don't take risks like other kids....I have realized my own mortality.

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http://members.cardomain.com/tinton

What hit me hard was finding a schoolmate from 1st grade lying in the road after a car
wreck. He had moved in a trailer down the road from me and had had many family
problems and was trying to be a good father to his daughter.
This night he had had a couple of beers too many and had run off the road and flipped
over after hitting a culvert. Wasn't really driving that fast and was only 2 blocks from home.
A friend for years, gone so quick.
Rest in Peace, Joe.
Many of us miss you.
TG

I wasn’t going to post about this, but I stumbled across this old thread. I’ve actually posted in some other threads today to try and take my mind off things, but...

Yesterday I took my mother back to my parent’s home after she had spent the last three weeks in hospital. She spent the next four hours sitting in a recliner in their front room, not feeling very good at all. I went to the store to buy her and my Dad some supplies. When I came back to their high-rise condo, an ambulance and fire engine were in the parking lot. It wasn’t until I went up in the elevator and saw my parents door wide open that I realized where exactly the medics were.

I was quickly ushered into my parent’s bedroom. My dad was sitting on the edge of the bed crying. He looked up at me and said between sobs, “Mom died....”

I walked out into the front room to find my 86 year old mother stretched out on the floor, most of her clothes removed, with about a half-dozen medics still working furiously on her. From my vantage point, her feet were pointing away from me, but her head was tipped back and her eyes were wide open pointing directly at me. It was awful. I was looking into the eyes of my dead mother who had been alive 30 minutes earlier.

My mother had suffered a massive heart attack, and the medics actually got a weak pulse going after a long, long time... but I knew in reality it was all over. They took her to the hospital, but when my dad and I arrived shortly thereafter, we asked them to turn off the machines. Mom was dead, no need to artificially prolong the inevitable.

The hospital staff left my father and I alone to sit with Mom and say our good-byes. Mom and Dad have been married for 53 years. I held my mother’s cold lifeless hand and I cried like a baby. I kissed her one last time on the forehead. I was her only child, and she’s been my mother for more than fifty years. I’m going to miss her terribly...

This all transpired less than 24 hours ago, and it hurts like hell...

Patrick, I'm so very sorry.

I'll be praying for you and your dad.

I feel like I never have the appropriate words, but just know that I've been there, and I understand. At least from my perspective.

Patrick you have my deepest sympyty.I lost my mom 4 years ago.I found that being with family and friends helped to make the pain dull.Take care

Patrick, I don't have the words.
I'll be praying for you and your family.

Prayers to you and your family Patrick.

I had posted before reading the whole thread.

.
I'm a nursing student and have done postmortem care a few times in the hospital.
I also assisted with autopsies by recording the weights of each organ removed.
Viewing an autopsy was a crazy experience for me. Nothing else does or probablly ever will compare to that.

[This message has been edited by Ms Formula (edited 06-26-2006).]

Patrick, that really sucks. i'm sorry for you and your's.

if you need to look on the bright side, at least your mother went quickly. my grandfather has parkinson's. over the last 10 years i've seen him go from a vibrant, opinionated person to a shell of a human being. can't walk, can't talk, can't eat, all he can do is point his finger and wave when he wants something. i was over at my grandparents on sunday for fathers day. when we got ready to leave i told my 2 1/2 year old daughter to give hugs and kisses cause he had to go. she wouldn't give him a kiss, just looked at me and said "no, he's sad". didn't know if i should whip her ass or pick her up and hug her.

I've seen dead people, animals, and other things dead since I was a kid. That has to be at least 30 plus years. The first time I saw someone dead was the 60's. One of my aunts. I remember it because after I left the viewing I felt like I had to cry for her. Even tho I can't remember ever seeing her alive. Everyone else was upset to I thought I had to be as well.

I've seen a bunch dead since. The only one I can truely say upset me was an ExGF but that whole situ was a giant mess. It's not worth the details now.

I have to say that it still amazes and amuses me how bent some people get over dead anything. You'd think after thousands, hell millions, of years that people would learn that things are alive and then dead for whatever reason. What makes it even more pathetic is how they assume that a dead animal is somehow less than a dead person.

Don't get me wrong... I'm a PETA... People Eating Tasty Animals. I've helped to kill a bunch first hand. I have way more grasp on the food chain than a hell of allot of people. I don't hunt for sport. I likely will be out hunting various other predators eating my friend's farm animals very soon.

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurasic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top of every forum page...)

Patrick,

You have my heartfelt sympathies. I lost my mom on 9/12/2001, just after midnight. That's right, a few minutes into the day after the attack on WTC. She passed while I was holding her hand. I'll be thinking about you, and praying for you. Hold your family close, especially your dad. It's going to be hard for all of you but you'll get through it. I know you can.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by Patrick: I wasn’t going to post about this, but I stumbled across this old thread. I’ve actually posted in some other threads today to try and take my mind off things, but... Yesterday I took my mother back to my parent’s home after she had spent the last three weeks in hospital. She spent the next four hours sitting in a recliner in their front room, not feeling very good at all. I went to the store to buy her and my Dad some supplies. When I came back to their high-rise condo, an ambulance and fire engine were in the parking lot. It wasn’t until I went up in the elevator and saw my parents door wide open that I realized where exactly the medics were. I was quickly ushered into my parent’s bedroom. My dad was sitting on the edge of the bed crying. He looked up at me and said between sobs, “Mom died....” I walked out into the front room to find my 86 year old mother stretched out on the floor, most of her clothes removed, with about a half-dozen medics still working furiously on her. From my vantage point, her feet were pointing away from me, but her head was tipped back and her eyes were wide open pointing directly at me. It was awful. I was looking into the eyes of my dead mother who had been alive 30 minutes earlier. My mother had suffered a massive heart attack, and the medics actually got a weak pulse going after a long, long time... but I knew in reality it was all over. They took her to the hospital, but when my dad and I arrived shortly thereafter, we asked them to turn off the machines. Mom was dead, no need to artificially prolong the inevitable. The hospital staff left my father and I alone to sit with Mom and say our good-byes. Mom and Dad have been married for 53 years. I held my mother’s cold lifeless hand and I cried like a baby. I kissed her one last time on the forehead. I was her only child, and she’s been my mother for more than fifty years. I’m going to miss her terribly... This all transpired less than 24 hours ago, and it hurts like hell...

[This message has been edited by jstricker (edited 06-24-2006).]

Sorry to hear that Patrick.

I've said a prayer.

Patrick: Words fail, they just absolutly fail. My mother was also killed by a heart attack, in her case she was in a comma. I stoped by the hospital to see her, when I came back the next morning she was gone. I'll send a prayer, take care. Joe

quote CSI Students Find Real Dead Body Officials Think Homeless Man Died Of Natural Causes (CBS) FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. Police have identified the dead man that a group of South Florida high school students discovered at Holiday Park in Fort Lauderdale Monday morning. Fort Lauderdale police say he is 45-year-old David Wayne Bodie, a homeless man who may have died of natural causes, reports Art Barron of WFOR-TV. The offical cause of death won't be confirmed until the autopsy by the Broward Medical Examiner is complete. The group of students from St. Thomas Aquinas High School was searching mock crime scenes as part of the summer school forensics class. A real life CSI class in training that happened to stumble on a real life crime scene. The teacher, Sue Messenger, had planted fake evidence and fake paper skeletons in the park as part of the class. When one of her students discovered a man's hand clutching a chain-link fence, he thought it was planted by his teacher. They eventually realized it wasn't fake and called police who sent out homicide investigators to the scene. The crime scene investigators in training are being offered counseling if they want it.

What I don't understand is if you need counseling, why are you in that class?

Dead people never look right. Thay are no longer conveying a restful look, only the look of inanimate objects. A piece of wood doesn't look like it's resting any more than a dead person.

I have been to a number of funerals including my grand father, great grandfather, best friends mother, 2 friends, and my uncle. The worst was definitely my friend Michael. They found him dead in a hole in the ground in the woods behind some residential houses. They say he overdosed on heroin, but nobody who knew him ever suspected him of any drug use. Usually drug use happens WITH your friends, but we didn't see as much of him when he moved out to Deep River. He had an open casket funeral and was the first friend that I had die on me. It was hard. It makes you die a little bit inside when people close to you die, and when you see their bodies it brings it home like a sledgehammer to the gut.

Yes, I've seen a few dead people: Passed relatives at funerals mostly. One thing that was notable about the funeral of one of my aunts, is how calm and, well, almost cheerful, my uncle was about the whole thing. He greeted people who came in with a smile, so that they knew how much he appreciated them coming. I think it might have had something to do with them having a great deal of faith in God - thnik my uncle felt like his wife was now "in a better place," as the expression goes. She died after struggling with cancer. So it was probably a relief to both of them after her time here was over.

I sometimes cry at funerals. I mean, you know you will miss them being around. Sometimes I laugh, too. I remember the funeral of one of my grandmothers, who had five sons (one of whom is my Dad). My Dad and his brothers are always telling funny stories on each other whenever they get together. People came from miles around to the funeral; it was a big crowd. When he spoke to the crowd at the funeral, the preacher said he had gotten to know some of the family from just talking to us and listening to us talk to each other. The preacher said, "I can tell this is a close family. I've talked to a lot of people here today. And I've heard a lot of stories..." Right away everyone started laughing, because we knew exactly what he was talking about.

Come to think of it, I both cried and laughed at that funeral. Either way, it's just an emotional time. A time of emotional release. I think funerals are mostly for the benefit of the living.

On another note, in a Fort Wayne, IN junior high "health" class (something like that), the instructor one day announced to the class that, while excavating to build a barn on his property, they had encountered a woman's (somewhat) preserved body underground. She had been dead for many, many years and apparently had been treated somehow with something that preserved her blood vessels (perhaps some sort of ancient ritual?). The instructor reported the finding to the Allen County Historical Society (or some such organization), which carefully extracted the body from the earth and even color-coded the blood vessels. A few days later (I think after letting whoever wanted to "opt out" ), he brought her into the class. "Petula," he named her. She was pretty small in stature, just a skeleton and blood vessels (and probably some connecting tissue, I don't remember). All dried out. Kind of grisly, I suppose, but you actually kind of got used to it. She was there in class a day or two.

Unfortunatly, from my previous tour in iraq i saw more then i ever wanted too. Thatnk god i never saw any US forces that way though, the first was found after about three months in the desert under very little sand, (think of the worst smell you could imagine then multiply by infinite, yes that bad.) and another shot execution style in the back of the head, and my favorite, which you never hear about on the news, is the terrorists that blow themselves up while setting up the IED.

My best to you Patrick, prayers sent.

I see 2-4 a week (Paramedic, work both ambulance and ER)

Sorry Patrick.. i skipped ahead and posted before I read everything. All my best wishes to you and your Family. Sorry to hear about your sudden loss.

[This message has been edited by DrRodey (edited 06-25-2006).]

I have seen plenty of friends and family dead.But I will admit as well it hurts like hell when it's a child.I have lost two children.In fact the two year aniversery of my ten year olds death is in just a couple of weeks.My other daughter I was the one doing CPR on before the paramedics made it.I pray to many of you that all your children live long healthy lives.

I use to see them (dead people) on a regular basis....now it's one or twice a year. No big deal, it's apart of normal life preparing you for love ones who will soom pass away. It's one way of looking at "life" in a good light and appreciating every moment "life" has to offer. It's sad when some people don't see life as a beautiful thing.

Edit: I can't spell, hehe.

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 06-25-2006).]

quote Originally posted by madcurl: It's said when some people don't see life as a beautiful thing.

I didn't know you knew me!

Sorry Patrick. I know it's tough. Hang in there.

My co-worker/friend for the last 9 years just passed last month. He was diagnosed with terminal colon cancer after months of not feeling well. After finally visiting a doctor he only lived for about 6 weeks. While he was in the hospital I wanted to visit but my boss, who was in contact with his wfe, said that he did not want visitors. I am of the opinion that he did not want to see people other than direct family members during his last days while knowing the end is near. In a way I do feel a bit of guilt for not having the chance to say goodbye personally but I have to think about his condition and what his wants were.

When I came into work a few weeks ago after the weekend my boss told me that he had passed and that a viewing would be later that week followed by a funeral even later in the week. When you see a person that was close to you in your daily life for a long period of time that is gone it just chops you at the knees. Visually seeing it before you makes it so real and makes you instantly realize how precious and short life is. His office area is as he left it and sometimes it is hard to be around it as he left a lot of personal things behind. I especially feel for his 10 year old son whom he was so proud of. It's just a terrible thing to go through but we will all be there someday. It's just a matter of when your clock strikes.

Wow, Patrick, it was just January that you were telling me about how hard it was going to be to loose your Mother and Father in a post Here

You have my most sincere condolences. I've been where you are now not too long ago.

If it's of any solice, I wish I could have had my Mother as long as my turning 50. I'm only in my 30's.

I'm going to write a few things to you letting you know how things transpired for me, so that perhaps you can know what to expect, and also know that you are not the only one feeling the way that you do now.

You will find out now who your TRUE core friends and family are now. You may be in for a surprise. For example, in my case, my Aunt who loved my Mother so much, turned out to be the LEAST supporting and contribuiting of all three of the siblings. She lives out of state, and did not come here until Mother was so far gone, that she was in a coma which she never came out of. Then she bawled at the wake "I did not get to say goodbye." Mother was sick for almost 10 months. That's PLENTY of time to say goodbye if you care enough to make a 300 mile trip. She also told me that she was a volunteer counselor at the local hospital, and that she would counsel me about Mothers death. Her replies consisted of "I know what you mean" and "It will be alright." Some counselor. My Mothers other sister and brother were the ones that I had to lean on instead of her.

You may ask yourself it it's better to be there when your loved one dies or not. I asked myself that same question a thousand times. There is no right answer. I considered not being there when Mother died, but It seemed just as bad as being there. In the end, I was there when she died, but it is up to personal preference or circumstance to determine. My Uncle chose not to be there, deciding instead that he wanted to remember Mother alive. Again it is preference and circumstance. If I would not have been there because I was gone on an errand, I would just say that is the way that God wanted it. ]

Right now you may not believe it, but it does get easier. While I am far from getting over Mothers death, I'm not quite as bad as I was right after she died. I have been told by several people that when you start remembering the good things about the person rather than the bad, that you are starting to move on. I'm not there yet, but it has only been a year. It does get easier. trust me.

If I can be of any help, please do not hesitate to PM me. I'll be glad to lend a sympathetic ear to anything that you have to say, and I promise not to say "yea" "I understand" and "It's alright" like I've had done to me by other people. I'm a little farther ahead than you, and can tell you what to expect and also show you that the way that you feel right now you are not alone in.

Take care, and please PM me if you need to.

-FF

quote Originally posted by Patrick: I wasn’t going to post about this, but I stumbled across this old thread. I’ve actually posted in some other threads today to try and take my mind off things, but... Yesterday I took my mother back to my parent’s home after she had spent the last three weeks in hospital. She spent the next four hours sitting in a recliner in their front room, not feeling very good at all. I went to the store to buy her and my Dad some supplies. When I came back to their high-rise condo, an ambulance and fire engine were in the parking lot. It wasn’t until I went up in the elevator and saw my parents door wide open that I realized where exactly the medics were. I was quickly ushered into my parent’s bedroom. My dad was sitting on the edge of the bed crying. He looked up at me and said between sobs, “Mom died....” I walked out into the front room to find my 86 year old mother stretched out on the floor, most of her clothes removed, with about a half-dozen medics still working furiously on her. From my vantage point, her feet were pointing away from me, but her head was tipped back and her eyes were wide open pointing directly at me. It was awful. I was looking into the eyes of my dead mother who had been alive 30 minutes earlier. My mother had suffered a massive heart attack, and the medics actually got a weak pulse going after a long, long time... but I knew in reality it was all over. They took her to the hospital, but when my dad and I arrived shortly thereafter, we asked them to turn off the machines. Mom was dead, no need to artificially prolong the inevitable. The hospital staff left my father and I alone to sit with Mom and say our good-byes. Mom and Dad have been married for 53 years. I held my mother’s cold lifeless hand and I cried like a baby. I kissed her one last time on the forehead. I was her only child, and she’s been my mother for more than fifty years. I’m going to miss her terribly... This all transpired less than 24 hours ago, and it hurts like hell...

I want to thank everyone who has offered their kind words in regards to my mother’s passing. I’ve sent each of you a PM. It gives me hope there’s still a chance for the human race when people I’ve never met take the time to offer their sympathies. It is very much appreciated.

GOD killed the rose.
Once, there was this hottie. I got her to go out with me, meet me for a couple of "get to know each other drinks". I arrived early, picked a couple of seats at the bar, (not presumptually a booth), and left an arangement of roses in front of her seat. After we talked awhile, she mentioned how beautiful those roses were. I then told her that I had bought them for her.
She threw me for a loop, was kinda mad at me, for picking flowers when I could have given her a live plant. That the roses were gonna be wilted in a few days. I mentioned this to a friend (a tree trimmer). He pointed out that the roses would have wilted on the branch or in the vase.
I thought about it. God kills the roses. He allows us their beauty for just a short while. Your Mom was such a rose Patrick. As are everyone's loved ones.

A father should never, ever have to bury his children. I honestly don't think I could survive what you did. You have my sympathies, and respect just for getting through it.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by silversurfer: I have seen plenty of friends and family dead.But I will admit as well it hurts like hell when it's a child.I have lost two children.In fact the two year aniversery of my ten year olds death is in just a couple of weeks.My other daughter I was the one doing CPR on before the paramedics made it.I pray to many of you that all your children live long healthy lives.

quote Originally posted by FieroDiva: The one that still haunts me is seeing the guy I dated.....he just looked creepy.

You shouldnt have killed him then...................

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 06-26-2006).]

My sympathies Patrick, I don't know you or your parents but empathy has the tears welling up anyways. I hope you can celebrate her life along with your grief. The rest that follows is my personal feelings on the subject not related to your loss.

I don't deal well with death anymore. I've been a firefighter/first responder in a family with generations of the same, and used to handle death pretty well. Been a soldier and noticed a change with the death of my grandfather... that one hurt bad. I couldn't be in the room with him as he died from a brain tumor, he just wasn't the man I knew at that point. The pain of that vision trying to overwhelm all the great memories was damn near unbearable. Challenger and then 9-11 had me balling. I had a good friend die last December, had an open casket funeral. I went to the memorial and the burial, wasn't about to look in the casket, that is a body... not the person I knew. Death is one of the places that religous rites can help someone grieve, Judaism gives you ritual to follow and methods to grieve... it's like following a reciepe when you are told to cook a gourmet meal and have never turned on a stove. There is a whole support structure in place to help you through the grieving process. Other cultures have similar systems,

I highly dislike the open casket concept, and the funeral home taking the place of the family. My friend Elvis's funeral seemed surreal to me, almost fake.. the people there grieving were real but the mechanics of it seemed screwed up and artificial/commercial. I've been thinking about visiting his grave on and off the last couple of months, seems pointless but I miss him and since helping his family close out his shop I've had no contact with them... that's sad.

My mom's parents lived in a house in upstate Vermont that was built in the 1700's, it had a deathdoor in the parlor. The door was the correct height off the ground for a coffin wagon to back up and load out the dead from the parlor. I found that out when I discovered their home in a historical register and did a report on it for an architecture class.

Being Irish I also got to experience Irish wakes as a kid. People celebrating your life with a party, eating, drinking, telling stories, playing games... I don't know what the spouse and kids do for a followup, but the sendoffs I attended were a celebration of life rather than dwelling on the morbid reason your there.

[This message has been edited by Scott-Wa (edited 07-01-2006).]

quote Originally posted by jstricker: A father should never, ever have to bury his children. I honestly don't think I could survive what you did. You have my sympathies, and respect just for getting through it. John Stricker

I agree. I dont think I would be able to handle that

I witnesses a bike accident once where a guy with his fiance on the back lost it on a corner doing about 90 mph. He clipped a pole and then his back carried on to hit a van and totalled it. The van ended up 3 car spaces across from its original position and the largest part of the bike left was a fist sized chunk of engine block. The bike was strewn all over a fast food joints car park.

Anyway the guy somehow lived even though he had been dragged off the bike by the pole and wrapped himself around it. He was not a pretty sight. His left leg was snapped off at the knee and held on by a thin strip of skip. He was bent in every direction the human body shouldn't have been. His Fiance had a football sized chunk of her thigh missing, but otherwise was relatively uninjured.

As the ambulance arrived minutes later the guy let out an unholy scream and died. The ambos battle with bringing him back to life and stabilise him for about 20 minutes. At that point I think they knew it was a lost cause and removed his shattered helmet, as if they knew bringing him back was wrong. Maybe there was a medical reason but I don't know. Anyway, his skull pretty much caved in on itself as it was only the helmet holding it in shape. He died immediately.

I was 17 when I seen that and had a bike myself - a Yamaha XS 500. I have never rode another motorbike on the road since.