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Buying a Car: When a Sale isn't a Sale by RWDPLZ
Started on: 08-01-2006 10:43 AM
Replies: 10
Last post by: FrugalFiero on 08-01-2006 04:08 PM
RWDPLZ
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Report this Post08-01-2006 10:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RWDPLZClick Here to visit RWDPLZ's HomePageSend a Private Message to RWDPLZDirect Link to This Post
We've been looking for a car for my little brother for a month or so now. We've checked every dealer in town, and can't find any good deals, or decent cars. Apparently 5 year old or newer foreign cars cannot be purchased in this area for less than $12,000. We found a couple 2003 Tauruses and a 2002 Escort ZX2 at the Ford dealer, the Tauri for $11,980 each and the ZX2 for $8990 (those prices are after the $2000 minimum trade-in). Yes I tried to talk my mother out of both cars, but she argued that since Ford has sold so many Tauri, they can't be a bad car. Cold, calculating, undebatable logic, wouldn't you say? She doesn't remember our 97 Sable bing in the shop every couple months.

So last week, we get this letter in the mail from the dealer, with a coupon for $3180 off any used car on the lot. We've gotten these from them before, and I've always figured they were too good to be true, but since we were considering buying one of these cars, $3000 off the above price would at least be a fair deal for those cars. With that thought in mind, we went to the sale (hereafter refered to as 'the circus') that Friday.

We get there to find a circus tent, with tables set up all under the tent. The old prices the cars were advertised for were replaced with signs hanging from their rear view mirrors, with monthly payments that were all about $100 higher than they would have been under the old prices. Salesmen were inside a makeshift room in the tent, and a long line of toothless rednecks coming to claim their prizes, and not buy a car. All were given two scratch and win cards, where you have to get 6 of a kind to win. Pretty sure nobody won. So we waited in line for our salesman, a greasy little older guy named Kain with a slight New York accent.

We proceeded to tell him we were interested in the Escort. the price in the window was $251 a month. We complained about the bumper hanging off, and he suggested it had been backed into a pole and repainted (the bumper was not properly attached to the car, and all along it except at the corners, you could fit your hand in the gap. No other ZX2 around town had this ailment). So he takes us to look at the black Taurus, the window price is $317 a month. We've seen and looked at all these cars before, so we ask for the actual prices of the cars. So he takes us back to the tent, sits us at a table, and goes to talk to someone to find the prices of the cars. Five minutes later, he returns and gives us the price of the Taurus. $11,640 Well after $3000 that would bring it down to around $8000, which would be about fair for a base-model no-option car with 50,000 miles. But then I thought to ask him, "Is that before or after the $3000 coupon?" "After" he casually stated. Whoa, hold on, the price of the car had actually jumped $1000 right before the sale? My mother got out her pen and paper and wrote down

Before Sale:
$11980
+2000
= $13980

At sale:
$11640
+3180
=$14820

Everyone else understands this math, right? Well he pretended he didn't and we were 'overthinking it' and we were actually getting a better deal. We were getting a better deal in that we were saving $400. Oooh, we could save a whole $400! Whoopty freaking doo! So we argued with him about it, and he absolutely would not budge on the price. He offered to lower it to $11,000, IF we drove away with it RIGHT now. Sign the papers, no test drive. Get real.

So we asked him for the price of the Escort. While he was gone, I told my mother and little brother we should walk away right now, but she wanted to see the numbers on the Escort. He comes back, price is $9,550. Even worse than before! Just to satisfy our curiosity, we asked to take the Escort for a test drive. According to Carfax, this car was at another dealer lot downstate since January, sold at auction, and has been here since May. The reason why would soon become obvious. So go to the car, and hop in, and he insists on coming with us. Every other dealer had no problem handing us the keys and saying 'see ya in 15 minutes' but I could understand them not wanting someone driving off with it. So I drive, salesman in the passenger seat, brother and mother in the back. Start the car, and there's this moderate vibration at idle, even worse than my Fiero (my Fiero idles between 500-600 rpm's in drive after warming up, and it causes the dash to shake). Being a hot day, we turn on the AC, and the vibration gets 10X worse! The pedal is vibrating so bad I think my foot is going to fall asleep! And the vibration doesn't go away while driving it's still there. The salesman chalks it up to the car being a 4 cylinder, and all 4-cyls do that. Funny, the THREE we have at home don't. So during the drive, the car handles and otherwise rides fine, but the vibration is so horrible.

We come back in, and he still tries to sell it to us. We tell him we'll think about it, and we'll probably be back tomorrow (the last day of the 'sale'). Needless to say, we didn't go back. I went back to the dealer yesterday on my lunch hour, and all the cars we looked at were still there, no prices in the windows.

On the way home, we discussed what a snake he was, how we couldn't believe a sale could be such a non-sale, and how stupid he must have thought we were. I don't think there's any chance we'll b egoing back to that dealer.

------------------

1984 Fiero SE

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blakeinspace
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Report this Post08-01-2006 10:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for blakeinspaceSend a Private Message to blakeinspaceDirect Link to This Post
eh... must be that new math....
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blackrams
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Report this Post08-01-2006 12:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsDirect Link to This Post
OK, now don't get me wrong on this. I'm not saying the salesman is or wasn't exactly as you described him. But, what he was is, is a reflection of the Management team that runs the business. I assure you the whole "team" is exactly like your guy and is doing exactly what the Sales Manager and Owners expect. I'm sorry if this offends any Sales folks out there but their mission is to make their business and themselves money. Integrity is gone out the window in the vast majority of this culture. Or at least as it applies to the car sales arena. Heck, they send them to school to learn the "techniques".

We all can expect the same kind of "deals" until we hold them to a higher standard. I don't mind anyone making an honest living, even in car sales. What pisses me off is when they smile as they are trying to screw you. Sorry, I used to enjoy dealing with these guys, I have spent as much as 14 hours in one day dealing on a vehicle. Now, I just walk in and ask the price, test drive the car or truck and make my offer and leave. I hate dealing with scum. Before you folks jump all over me, I know not all of them are like this but, enough of them are that the generalizations are true.

------------------
Ron
Freedom isn't Free, it's paid for with the blood and dreams of those that have gone before us.
My imagination is the only limiting factor to my Fiero. Well, there is that money issue.

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 08-01-2006).]

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Brian Lamberts
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Report this Post08-01-2006 12:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Brian LambertsSend a Private Message to Brian LambertsDirect Link to This Post
Check the rental agencies. I just did a quick look at Enterprise (for example) and he could an 06 G6 for $16,500 or an 05 Taurus for about $11,000. I looked at Enterprise in Grand Rapids, BTW. They seem to have lots of cars.
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tutnkmn
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Report this Post08-01-2006 12:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tutnkmnSend a Private Message to tutnkmnDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Brian Lamberts:

Check the rental agencies. I just did a quick look at Enterprise (for example) and he could an 06 G6 for $16,500 or an 05 Taurus for about $11,000. I looked at Enterprise in Grand Rapids, BTW. They seem to have lots of cars.


I bought a really good, dependable 1988 Cavalier from Buget rental many years ago (1993). It had 33,000 rental miles on it. Except for second gear having a little grind when it engaged the car was GREAT. I put 100,000 miles on it before it died in 1999 and for $3000 I think it served very well

I hope that little Cav gave some good parts to other cars after it went to the bone-yard.

[This message has been edited by tutnkmn (edited 08-01-2006).]

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FieroAngel
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Report this Post08-01-2006 12:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroAngelSend a Private Message to FieroAngelDirect Link to This Post
Gheeze! If your borther wants an import my FIL has a 2000 hundai elentra wagon with a some body damage he's wanting like $1600 for or a 200? dodge durango for like $10,000 your welcome to come down here and buy a car.

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Toddster
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Report this Post08-01-2006 01:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ToddsterSend a Private Message to ToddsterDirect Link to This Post
two words: HOLD BACK!

When you get to a dealer and he tells you that he is willing to show you his dealer invoice as justification for the price just say "HOLD BACK", and wait to see what he says. It will be something like, "we don't dicsuss hold back". "That is fine", you reply. "I just want you to know that you can't convince me with the 'dealer invoice' ploy. Now let's put a deal together."
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m0sh_man
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Report this Post08-01-2006 02:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for m0sh_manSend a Private Message to m0sh_manDirect Link to This Post
theres a place down the street from the house here (chestnut street service station) that lets a church sell their cars on the service station lot, currently there are 3-4 2000-2002 ford taurus's and dodge stratus's all 45-60k miles $5000-6000 each They are firm on the prices, but for someone wanting a new model car with low miles, those are very good prices.

matthew
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m0sh_man
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MinnGreenGT
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Report this Post08-01-2006 03:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MinnGreenGTClick Here to visit MinnGreenGT's HomePageSend a Private Message to MinnGreenGTDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Toddster:

two words: HOLD BACK!

When you get to a dealer and he tells you that he is willing to show you his dealer invoice as justification for the price just say "HOLD BACK", and wait to see what he says. It will be something like, "we don't dicsuss hold back". "That is fine", you reply. "I just want you to know that you can't convince me with the 'dealer invoice' ploy. Now let's put a deal together."


Yup... check it out here: http://www.edmunds.com/advice/incentives/holdback/index.html
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FrugalFiero
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Report this Post08-01-2006 04:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FrugalFieroDirect Link to This Post
I purchased the 99 Grand Prix GTP shown below last summer with 95K miles for $4200. When I first walked into the used car lot, the salesman said the price was $8995. As the transaction was taking place, I got a visual of the previous owners name and address on the title. I stopped by and chatted with the former owner about any issues he had with the car. I also asked him what the dealer gave him on a trade in. He replied $3300.

This is just a sample of the margin that most used car dealers work with.

Tim

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