New info: The gunman sent a package of photos, videos and writings to NBC, which has been turned over to police. NBC believes the package was mailed BETWEEN the shootings.

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: New info: The gunman sent a package of photos, videos and writings to NBC, which has been turned over to police. NBC believes the package was mailed BETWEEN the shootings.

Yeah, the shooter had mentally issues. I’d be checking out who prescribed his medication.

Sounds like he had Schizophrenia, or some kind of Psychotic Depression. There is a high incidence in the Asian population. Also, high stress in relocating to another culture and environment can trigger breaks. This and the fact that it is not culturally acceptable to seek treatment within the asian culture. I've only seen one or maybe two asians in treatment in my years at the hospital and we have a significant population here.

quote Originally posted by RotrexFiero: Sounds like he had Schizophrenia, or some kind of Psychotic Depression. There is a high incidence in the Asian population. Also, high stress in relocating to another culture and environment can trigger breaks. This and the fact that it is not culturally acceptable to seek treatment within the asian culture. I've only seen one or maybe two asians in treatment in my years at the hospital and we have a significant population here.

From what the new stated, the family moved to the U.S. when he was 8 yrs old. I think by then he had enough time to blend-in or enough time to seek treatment for his depression.

I truelly think that some of the parents who lost their child is going to sue big time especially if the shooter mailed those items between the shootings? I think the made a huge mistake by not locking down the entire college vs. the time they did perform a locked down weeks earlier.

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 04-18-2007).]

quote Originally posted by madcurl: I truelly think that some of the parents who lost their child is going to sue big time especially if the shooter mailed those items between the shootings? I think the made a huge mistake by not locking down the entire college vs. the time they did perform a locked down weeks earlier.

Not intending to debate the issue, I'm sure there will be at least 32 lawsuit for wrongful death suits and many more for injuries incurred. But, hind sight is 20/20. Given the information the Campus Security had or didn't have will determine if what was done was appropriate for the situation at the time based on the information known at that time. Obviously, decisions were made that turned out to be bad decisions, that doesn't necessarily mean they weren't following procedure or doing what they were supposed to be doing. Way too early to make that call.
Could or should have warnings gone out earlier, heck yes. That's an obvious call, now. I wasn't there so I really can't say but I'm sure Campus Security in all Universities is being upgraded as we discuss this. I know this is occurring at U of KY.
According to several news sources, Security Specialists and IT Companies are being overwhelmed with requests for information. Schools are looking at ways to send out text messages to all facilty and students. Which means every person that wants to be warned or notified of events will be required to provide their information to the schools.

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Ron
Land of the Free because of the Brave. Most gave some, some gave all. Some ran the other way.

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 04-20-2007).]

quote Originally posted by GT86: Some can, but the old "you can make it fire full auto by filing down the firing pin" is BS. To convert a semi to a full-auto weapon, you need to modify the fire control group. In all weapons that I am aware of, this means replacing a number of semi-auto parts with their full-auto counterparts. And then you'd probably have a bit of work to make sure the timing of everything is correct. Some manufacturers have changed their designs so that machine work is needed to accept the full-auto parts. While the parts themselves are not illegal, possession of full auto fire control parts and an unregistered gun that can accept those parts is a felony, even if the parts are not installed. It's called "constructive intent", and is treated the same a possessing a functional unregistered MG--10 years in the slammer.

GT86, thanks for furthering my education.

i realize that its easy to play monday morning quarter back but i really question the judgement of the campus police. i guess i'd need to know what the school's policy is on shootings and then see if they followed it.

it just seems to me, that if you find a dead body in a room, what killed the person? ok they were shot, so where is the gun? oh no gun? ok so it wasn't a suicide it was a murder. so where is the murderer? running around on campus someplace? that seems like reason enough to lock the school down. i would expect that in any school, campus or business.

The problem with just locking the school down is,

"WHAT IF THE SHOOTER IS INSIDE"

Now you've given him a bunch of victims that can't get out and the touchy feely pussified no gun policy has insured he doesn't have to worry about return fire. The other thing that contributed to the high death toll was all these young kids have been indoctrinated in the "just give them what they want and don't resist" school of thought.

If you are facing an armed indidvidual that wants to kill everyone he can the most effective resistance (other than some good guys being armed) is for everyone in the room to throw everything they can at him, this will disrupt his aim, and slow down his reloads. Then swarm him, you may get shot, but he's going to shoot you anyway, if you can take him out fast (pencil or pen in his eyes will do it quick) , medical care will at least be able to get to you and save you. Medics will not come in until the shooter is secured, so your taking him out will get help there faster. You can survive a pretty severe wound if you get help soon, a less serious wound will still kill you if you are kept from gettting aid. A back pack full of books would even be somewhat effective in slowing or stopping pistol rounds.

inside? he was inside a dorm. then he left, maybe mailed off his manifesto to nbc, stocked up his ammo and went inside a hall and opened up. i would rather him be locked inside one classroom. the chances of people figuring out what's going on increase plus he's less mobile and easier to track down.

as far as arming a student population that's a bad, bad idea. 20k kids 18-24 years old carrying guns is not your solution. this ain't the wild west. we have campus police and city police to handle those threats. that's why i brought up the policy question. did they follow policy and what was it?

i'm not anti gun control. i own guns and respect them. the simple fact is if somebody wants to kill a large number of people they can. guns, bombs, hijack a plane, poison a water supply, etc..it can all be done and to a certain extent there is nothing we can do. i dunno...bad deal all the way around i guess.

I didn't say arm everybody, just let those that are qualified and have a permit carry. In a college that large there are probably quite a few people that are quite capable of employing a weapon properly in an emergency. Colleges today are not all young kids, (permit holders are going to be at least 21) why should a short sighted administration stop reservists betwen deployments and off duty officers and other qualified persons from defending themselves? If this clown had decided to kill these people by setting the building on fire after chaining the exits would you be objecting to giving qualified people access to fire extinguishers? It's the same thing, a gun and a fire extinguisher are both emergency equipment, when you need one, you need one RIGHT NOW, not ten minutes from now when the situation is totally out of control.

Just posting "Gun Free Zone" signs is a frigging sick joke. Unless the school has metal detectors and armed guards at ALL access points they are doing nothing but making a political statement with other peoples lives. How about banks posting "No Robbery" signs, that would work just as well. Wait, I know, let's pass a law against Murder, I bet that would work!!!! No, that's already been tried. The problem is that Criminals, by definition, don't care what laws are passed, they are usually stopped by brute force (that's what the police do, they are guys with guns that are authorized to kill in your defense).

What kind of statement do we make when we have armed guards in a bank to protect money (and no one objects) but many people complain about arms used to protect students? They are clearly stating that they value money more than innocent young lives. I CANNOT agree with that attitude. I've seen enough gunshot victims to know I would do anything to stop some clown like this if all I had was my bare hands, but I would much rather follow the Boy Scout motto and be prepared.

The guy committed suicide in the end by shooting himself in the head. Do you think that he would have "worried" about return fire?

quote ...and the touchy feely pussified no gun policy has insured he doesn't have to worry about return fire.

[This message has been edited by yellowstone (edited 04-19-2007).]

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: The guy committed suicide in the end by shooting himself in the head. Do you think that he would have "worried" about return fire?

Maybe not, but the return fire may have been used before 32 were killed.

what would have stopped this kid from getting an illegal gun or making his own bomb? Just because someone couldn't buy a gun legally doesn't mean they wouldn't find another way to continue.

We are a society willing to blame everyone but the actual person who pulled the trigger (or pushed the button). The guy was wacko and there was no way to stop him. Maybe they could have reduced the number of deaths, but still, this guy was on a mission and no one was going to stop him. The campus could not have done anything else to protect the students... how could they? Who expects this to happen? How do you protect 25K people from 1 person?

J.

every victims parents has a full on lawsuit against the school for not enforcing the "no gun" thingy. those kids were FORCED to be victims. they had no choice in their fate. all they could do is stand there and eat bullets. their right to defend themselves was checked out at the door.

Here is another thought.... why wasn't this person put in a psyc. ward? Back in the day.... we would have committed someone like this. But in today's world we want to "help" them and then release them into society. Also, this person was here on a Visa... why was this person allowed to continue living here with a known mental issue?

Just a few thoughts.

J.

Interesting - that means that I and everyone I know around here are "forced" to be victims, too. I wonder why I don't (and everyone I know) feel in the least bit unsafe...

It's a cultural difference and discussing it will probably get us nowhere, like discussing smoking or religion (I'm against both even though smoking is probably the lesser evil).

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: every victims parents has a full on lawsuit against the school for not enforcing the "no gun" thingy. those kids were FORCED to be victims. they had no choice in their fate. all they could do is stand there and eat bullets. their right to defend themselves was checked out at the door.

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: Interesting - that means that I and everyone I know around here are "forced" to be victims, too. I wonder why I don't (and everyone I know) feel in the least bit unsafe...

Well you guys have had 70 years to get used to it. Wasn't it about that time that they rounded up all the guns and started systematically killing unwanted citizens?. Ya, I would feel safe too, heh

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: It's a cultural difference and discussing it will probably get us nowhere, like discussing smoking or religion (I'm against both even though smoking is probably the lesser evil).

Your probably right.

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: Interesting - that means that I and everyone I know around here are "forced" to be victims, too. I wonder why I don't (and everyone I know) feel in the least bit unsafe... It's a cultural difference and discussing it will probably get us nowhere, like discussing smoking or religion (I'm against both even though smoking is probably the lesser evil).

well, I hate to burst your bubble - but German citizens DO have guns. as do Spanish & English & French and anywhere else in the world.
and, I dont see anyone feeling "unsafe". in fact, Europe has plenty of social unrest of its own. you can sing your "no gun" song all day long - but we all know its just a song. I could fly over there right now, and find me a gun. within 1 hour. in the west. not from some lowly ostling - but theres them too, if you want to deal that low....

Thanks for letting me know all the facts about the society I live in. I can only tell you that I haven't seen a gun over here in my life, honestly. There's no doubt that there are out there but it can't be that widespread.

As far as Europe having social unrest - where's the connection to the topic at hand?

My point (also from my earlier post) was that the problem is a combination of a society tolerant/promotional of violence AND the availability of guns.

I didn't mean to imply that "we're better than you" (Europe vs. US). However, my opinion stands that an armed society doesn't do much for general safety.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: well, I hate to burst your bubble - but German citizens DO have guns. as do Spanish & English & French and anywhere else in the world. and, I dont see anyone feeling "unsafe". in fact, Europe has plenty of social unrest of its own. you can sing your "no gun" song all day long - but we all know its just a song. I could fly over there right now, and find me a gun. within 1 hour. in the west. not from some lowly ostling - but theres them too, if you want to deal that low....

quote Originally posted by sostock: inside? he was inside a dorm. then he left, maybe mailed off his manifesto to nbc, stocked up his ammo and went inside a hall and opened up. i would rather him be locked inside one classroom. the chances of people figuring out what's going on increase plus he's less mobile and easier to track down.

I agree. As for the college officials not locking down the entire place, I believe that was the case when a convicted exscaped prisoner was on the loose they "did." Why in the heck they decided not too this time is beyond me? Plus, when this happens in various crime scene throughout the U.S., all schools in the area are on lock-down.

Why don't our military training bases have such crazy folks shooting up our military training bases??

What would happen if a military base was hit by a crazy??

Why don't our civilian learning campus' learn from our military training bases concerning crazy folks??

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: Thanks for letting me know all the facts about the society I live in. I can only tell you that I haven't seen a gun over here in my life, honestly. There's no doubt that there are out there but it can't be that widespread. As far as Europe having social unrest - where's the connection to the topic at hand? My point (also from my earlier post) was that the problem is a combination of a society tolerant/promotional of violence AND the availability of guns. I didn't mean to imply that "we're better than you" (Europe vs. US). However, my opinion stands that an armed society doesn't do much for general safety.

well, being they are such banned objects, people dont go around yelling "I got a gu-un I got a gu-un! na na na na bo bo"
the social unrest is in reply to the "feeling safe" you've mentioned several times.
this particular instance shows how bad it can be when only the outlaw has the gun.
finally - I would LOVE to see a worldwide ban on weapons of all kinds. but...well, you know....not gonna happen. and, people would still find a way to kill each other.

seems like April is a good month for carnage.

waco: april 19th, 1993. 74 men, women and children killed.

oklahoma city: april 19th, 1995. (dates the same of course) 168 men, women and children killed.

columbine: april 20th, 1999. thirteen students and a teacher killed.

va tech: april 16th, 2007. 32 students killed.

seems like the 3rd week in april would be a good time to stay home.

I do not for one minute wish to disrespect the bright young students who were killed in a fit of desperate rage by a fellow student.
However, just to add some perspective, on the same day, a series of coordinated bombings in central Baghdad included one particularly deadly blast that immediately killed 115 people — mostly moms and kids shopping for food. Also killed by that bomb were the construction workers rebuilding part of the al-Sadriyah market that was destroyed by another bomb two months ago. It’s the single bloodiest day since the magical American Surge “secured Baghdad.”
These victims were just as innocent as the students at Va Tech.
Their families cry for their loss the same as ours do.
The killings were just as senseless.
One Hundred Fifteen innocent citizens.
More civilians are shot, killed in Iraq EVERY SINGLE DAY than were killed at Va Tech last Monday.
This didn't happen before the USA invasion.
Where are the roses and chocolates that BushChenyRumsfeld promised?
Why are we such violent people?
Too many John Wayne movies?
Video games?
Rap "gangsta" recordings?
The "die with a hard on" mentality ain't working, people.
Stupid is as stupid does.
We need to be less stupid.

Thats my worth


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..articulate and bright and clean,
and a nice looking guy.

[This message has been edited by NEPTUNE (edited 04-20-2007).]

I am not defending the war in Iraq, but you have to remember that Saddam was not the wonderful, caring man the media wants you to believe. He killed thousands and thousands of innocent people. The Iraq war is over religion and control. What has to happen is that those same people that rejoiced when we "freed" them, have to stand up and fight for their own freedom now, just as the early revolutionists did. IMHO I don't think Iraq will ever be a true democratic society.

Now back to the USA.... just remember, the right to protect yourself is very important to our society. With that right, we know we will still be free. Without the ability to defend ourselves, we could lose our freedoms. Just ask any other country with a government that was overthrown by the military. You think it can't happen here? If there was a nationwide crisis, we could be under military law and then where would we be? Where would we go from there? Bill of rights? would it still exist? At least with a gun I can protect my property and family. Without it I have no defense and no freedom.

J.

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: More civilians are shot, killed in Iraq EVERY SINGLE DAY than were killed at Va Tech last Monday. This didn't happen before the USA invasion. Where are the roses and chocolates that BushChenyRumsfeld promised?

quote Originally posted by NEPTUNE: I do not for one minute wish to disrespect the bright young students who were killed in a fit of desperate rage by a fellow student. However, just to add some perspective, on the same day, a series of coordinated bombings in central Baghdad included one particularly deadly blast that immediately killed 115 people — mostly moms and kids shopping for food. Also killed by that bomb were the construction workers rebuilding part of the al-Sadriyah market that was destroyed by another bomb two months ago. It’s the single bloodiest day since the magical American Surge “secured Baghdad.” These victims were just as innocent as the students at Va Tech. Their families cry for their loss the same as ours do. The killings were just as senseless. One Hundred Fifteen innocent citizens. More civilians are shot, killed in Iraq EVERY SINGLE DAY than were killed at Va Tech last Monday. This didn't happen before the USA invasion. Where are the roses and chocolates that BushChenyRumsfeld promised? Why are we such violent people? Too many John Wayne movies? Video games? Rap "gangsta" recordings? The "die with a hard on" mentality ain't working, people. Stupid is as stupid does. We need to be less stupid. Thats my worth

um - who killed these 115 people? as far as I know - most deaths in Iraq are caused DIRECTLY by other Iraqis - if they dont care - I dont care.

hey sarabear did you hear from your friends? are they ok?

quote Originally posted by sostock: seems like April is a good month for carnage. waco: april 19th, 1993. 74 men, women and children killed. oklahoma city: april 19th, 1995. (dates the same of course) 168 men, women and children killed. columbine: april 20th, 1999. thirteen students and a teacher killed. va tech: april 16th, 2007. 32 students killed. seems like the 3rd week in april would be a good time to stay home.

Hmm. It's good that there're no Fiero shows in April.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: um - who killed these 115 people? as far as I know - most deaths in Iraq are caused DIRECTLY by other Iraqis - if they dont care - I dont care.

...And Iranian, Syrian, and Saudi nut cases imported to stir-up trouble. The religious conflict is between sunni and shiite factions wrestling for power. Sad.