quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: what actions? he did nothing but speak. sorry - I am two sided on this. I hate idiots. this guy is an idiot. I am glad his stupidity got him a beat down. but - I am also worried about someone recieving a beat down for speaking - no matter how annoyingly.

I'm glad youre at least being rational about this. His actions were not following the QA session's rules and not leaving the building peacefully and willingly when being escorted.

quote Originally posted by LITEDAZE: if some person was up there kissing kerry's ass for 35 seconds, (as offensive as that may be) they wouldn't have been kicked out before asking their question because the time ran out.

time did not run out.

he asked different questions than he submitted.

quote Originally posted by LITEDAZE: Oh my god, totally different situation, totally irrelevant to this conversation. u even know that. were there lives at stake here? come on, keep it on topic. he wasn't screaming "I'm gonna kill you pigs!", he wasn't screaming "f*ck the police!" he was screaming "let me fkcin go!" , "Let me go and i'll walk out of here", "don't taze me" yes he was being a goof, and he did push them away at one point. but only because he knew he had the right to be speaking. it's a right that was fought for in case you don't remember. if some person was up there kissing kerry's ass for 35 seconds, (as offensive as that may be) they wouldn't have been kicked out before asking their question because the time ran out.

I'm gonna start by addressing the freedom of speech speel ONCE AGAIN. This was not a matter of freedom of speech, he was asked to leave because he was not being productive to the QA session and not following their rules and being disruptive. They were submitted questions and he was not addressing the question he submitted. He went off on a personal tirade, which was not allowed by the institution housing the session. They had every right to remove him from the building. Do I have the right to stand up in a court trial from the audience and start going on a tirade on someone up front? No, they have the right to remove me from the building. This is the exact same thing.

As far as him screaming "let me go and I'll walk out of here." You seem to make it sound like they should have just got off him and let him go peacefully. The fact youre missing though is that he had already resisted being escorted, therefore he had already created a reason for him to be arrested. There was no option to "just let him go" at this point. He had done himself in on this one.

As far as the actual taser being used...
How far were they supposed to let this escalate before using the taser? They tried repeatedly to cuff him and were unable. So what would be your suggestion instead of using the taser? Maybe they should have waited for him to throw a punch and hurt somebody, or maybe for the rest of the crowd to start rushing the cops? No, the taser is meant as a less lethal weapon to prevent situations from escalating into a more dangerous territory.

Its the cops fault. No one but the cops are at the wrong here. I see that now. Cops are always the ones being out of line. Cops fault. Criminals can do no wrong.

[This message has been edited by Phranc (edited 09-19-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Phranc: Its the cops fault. No one but the cops are at the wrong here. I see that now. Cops are always the ones being out of line. Cops fault. Criminals can do no wrong.

yes yes - this vile criminal. did you see all the kids he killed? and the money he stole?

criminal for speaking, eh?

respect ma a tor a tee

quote Originally posted by ConvictedRedneck: I can't believe the BS some of you are spewing. I bet you I could cite more instances where people were beat to death by attackers USING THEIR BARE HANDS, than you could taser deaths.

As a ConvictedRedneck it's not improbable that you may be speaking from first-hand experience. Care to fill us in?

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: yes yes - this vile criminal. did you see all the kids he killed? and the money he stole? criminal for speaking, eh? respect ma a tor a tee

Criminal for disturbing the peace and resisting arrest. You could at least try to be honest. Not all crimes are murder and theft. There are other lessor crimes. Two that this kid committed. Neither were because he was speaking. I know its hard for some of you people to understand.

quote Originally posted by Phranc: Criminal for disturbing the peace and resisting arrest. You could at least try to be honest. Not all crimes are murder and theft. There are other lessor crimes. Two that this kid committed. Neither were because he was speaking. I know its hard for some of you people to understand.

yup - 100% with you on disturbing the peace. but, there was no arrest to resist. and, I been there - I too would have happily joined in the beating of this fool.

but - again - all he did was speak. everything else was done by others.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: yup - 100% with you on disturbing the peace. but, there was no arrest to resist. and, I been there - I too would have happily joined in the beating of this fool. but - again - all he did was speak. everything else was done by others.

So when he shoved a cop that wasn't him? When refused to leave that wasn't him? When failed to comply that wasn't him? Was it a stunt double?

quote Originally posted by Phranc: So when he shoved a cop that wasn't him? When refused to leave that wasn't him? When failed to comply that wasn't him? Was it a stunt double?

who shoved who? he was standing behind a mic - everything after that was their doing. they handled him. he did not dive from the podium, and attack people.
so, you are saying I can walk up to anyone, and force them to leave, and if they dont comply, I get to deliver a beat down?

he did nothing but speak. all else was actions by others.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: so, you are saying I can walk up to anyone, and force them to leave, and if they dont comply, I get to deliver a beat down?

Last week in congress, during the Petraeus report, there were 2 anti-war women in pink, who were screaming something or other. They were told to leave. They were escorted out - still screaming - but they followed the officers out without trying to get away. They weren't tasered or forced to the ground or hassled in any way. Coincidence???

were they invited to speak?

What difference does it make?

In either case, they did not follow the rules.

If you were supposed to read a question, or if you were supposed to sit quietly and watch....... and you don't do that, and are asked to leave......... ?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/wkm...919/lo_wkmg/14147512


Just in case anyone is looking for the next horrendous tazer incident while missing out on the other 100 other "good" times the tazer was used for the best.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: I dunno about "resisting arrest" - he was NOT under arrest. he was tho resisting the officers, who were 100% there to take care of exactly the stupidity this guy was showing. he was probably just pissed cuz he voted for the first and only time in his life, and is shocked by it having been a waste of time, since everyone he knows voted just like him. he doesnt seem to realize there are many many more people in the USA than his little group of friends, who actually produce, and want to keep producing.

I am not fully against what they did. I am concerned about how quickly it escalated.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: I am not fully against what they did. I am concerned about how quickly it escalated.

And your blaming the cops for escalating it, not the guy who actually escalated it.

quote Originally posted by ace35: http://news.yahoo.com/s/wkm...919/lo_wkmg/14147512 Just in case anyone is looking for the next horrendous tazer incident...

I'd like to hear a positive spin on this death by taser.

quote From the article: According to a police report, one of the officers used her Taser gun nine times for a total of 160 seconds...

Yep, you can't be too careful when dealing with a woman in a wheelchair.

This is taken from newstarget.com...

There is no such crime as "resisting arrest." This is a fictitious crime dreamed up by law enforcement to accuse a citizen of a crime when they refuse to surrender to the illegal demands of the police.

U.S. courts have ruled on numerous occasions that resisting a false arrest is not merely a citizen's right, but his duty! In fact, courts have gone so far as to rule that if a law enforcement officer is killed as a result of actions stemming from a citizen's attempts to defend themselves against a false arrest, it is the fault of the officer, not the citizen.

Here's a short collection of relevant court rulings on false arrest and resisting arrest:

"When a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel by force, and if, in the reasonable exercise of his right of self defense, his assailant is killed, he is justified." Runyan v. State, 57 Ind. 80; Miller v. State, 74 Ind. 1.

"These principles apply as well to an officer attempting to make an arrest, who abuses his authority and transcends the bounds thereof by the use of unnecessary force and violence, as they do to a private individual who unlawfully uses such force and violence." Jones v. State, 26 Tex. App. I; Beaverts v. State, 4 Tex. App. 1 75; Skidmore v. State, 43 Tex. 93, 903.

"An illegal arrest is an assault and battery. The person so attempted to be restrained of his liberty has the same right to use force in defending himself as he would in repelling any other assault and battery." (State v. Robinson, 145 ME. 77, 72 ATL. 260).

In other words, Andrew Meyer would have been justified in using whatever reasonable means necessary to defend his life against his assailants. The gang of six individuals who assaulted Meyer, regardless of what clothing and badges they were wearing, were threatening his safety and his life. They assaulted him with a dangerous and potentially deadly weapon, and they kidnapped him by forcefully removing him from the room against his will.

Was Meyer being annoying to others by taking up air time at the microphone? Perhaps so. But being annoying is not a crime. If it were, John Kerry, President Bush and practically elected official in the country should be arrested. They're all far more annoying than Meyer.

Additional information from the courts:

"Each person has the right to resist an unlawful arrest. In such a case, the person attempting the arrest stands in the position of a wrongdoer and may be resisted by the use of force, as in self- defense." (State v. Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E. 2d 100


This is taken from my opinion....


This makes me sick.

1. This guy is being censored after asking legitimate questions.
2. Instead of being controlled and escorted out by two more than capable big ass dudes, 4 more join in and wrestle him to the ground.
3. At no point do any of the officers offer any explanation as to why hes is being escorted out.
4. The guy can be heard saying to the officers, "If you let me up I will walk out of here". To which their response is "put your hands behind your back and you wont get tased".
5. HE IS ON THE GROUND, ON HIS STOMACH WITH HIS HANDS BEHIND HIS BACK AND,,,THEY TASER HIM!

This just solidifies my belief that JUST BECAUSE YOU PASSED THE POLICE ACADEMY, DOES'NT MEAN YOU SHOULD BE A COP!!!

Police officers NEED to have extensive Psychological testing done BEFORE AND DURING their time as officers.
I know or have run into enough people who are or who want to be cops and they are for the most part meatheads who are are in it to abuse their power.

------------------
Dougie Murder
85 Fiero GT
Romeoliquorstore.com
Myspace

[This message has been edited by Dougie Murder (edited 09-19-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Patrick: I'd like to hear a positive spin on this death by taser. Yep, you can't be too careful when dealing with a woman in a wheelchair.

There is no positive spin, it's a huge muckup by the officer involved. HUGE. But to go along with what I actually said, it is one more incident EVERY one will hear and complain about, and there are MANY other stories where a tazer was used correctly and stopped the crime or problem.

quote Originally posted by Dougie Murder: "When a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel by force, and if, in the reasonable exercise of his right of self defense, his assailant is killed, he is justified." Runyan v. State, 57 Ind. 80; Miller v. State, 74 Ind. 1.

There's the key. He was not in a place where he has a right to be. His right to be was revoked (by the school) when he decided to deviate from his question card.

It's like deciding "hey, I don't like this person anymore... get out of my house." and there just happens to be security officers standing by.

You can get charged with trespassing in a school building. Even if you are a student.

Now, if it is true he was on the ground with his hands behind his back, then he was wrongly tasered. I'm sure the investigation will give us all the details.

[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 09-19-2007).]

I didn't hear the officers shouting, "Leave or be tasered"? From viewing the video, the guy was on the ground and with aleast 5 or more officers they couldn't carry the dude out? Besides, they could have let the dude speak his mind and ramble on hogin' the mike.

quote Originally posted by ace35: There is no positive spin...

Don’t be surprised if someone in this thread defends the use of a Taser against this woman in a wheelchair for one or more of the following reasons:

1) she had two knives and a hammer
2) she may have had a bazooka
3) she was schizophrenic
4) she may have been pre-menstrual

Seriously, if two cops can’t handle a 56 year old mentally ill woman confined to a wheelchair without shooting her ten times with a Taser gun, then what freakin’ hope would they ever have dealing with a healthy 10 year old boy spotted stealing a chocolate bar?

I have friends who are cops and they’re great guys, but there’s obviously a problem with some cops being a little too trigger happy, be it with conventional guns or with a Taser.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 09-19-2007).]

AMEN BROTHER TO THE NORTH!!!
+

quote Originally posted by Dougie Murder: This is taken from newstarget.com... There is no such crime as "resisting arrest." This is a fictitious crime dreamed up by law enforcement to accuse a citizen of a crime when they refuse to surrender to the illegal demands of the police. U.S. courts have ruled on numerous occasions that resisting a false arrest is not merely a citizen's right, but his duty! In fact, courts have gone so far as to rule that if a law enforcement officer is killed as a result of actions stemming from a citizen's attempts to defend themselves against a false arrest, it is the fault of the officer, not the citizen. Here's a short collection of relevant court rulings on false arrest and resisting arrest: "When a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel by force, and if, in the reasonable exercise of his right of self defense, his assailant is killed, he is justified." Runyan v. State, 57 Ind. 80; Miller v. State, 74 Ind. 1. "These principles apply as well to an officer attempting to make an arrest, who abuses his authority and transcends the bounds thereof by the use of unnecessary force and violence, as they do to a private individual who unlawfully uses such force and violence." Jones v. State, 26 Tex. App. I; Beaverts v. State, 4 Tex. App. 1 75; Skidmore v. State, 43 Tex. 93, 903. "An illegal arrest is an assault and battery. The person so attempted to be restrained of his liberty has the same right to use force in defending himself as he would in repelling any other assault and battery." (State v. Robinson, 145 ME. 77, 72 ATL. 260). In other words, Andrew Meyer would have been justified in using whatever reasonable means necessary to defend his life against his assailants. The gang of six individuals who assaulted Meyer, regardless of what clothing and badges they were wearing, were threatening his safety and his life. They assaulted him with a dangerous and potentially deadly weapon, and they kidnapped him by forcefully removing him from the room against his will. Was Meyer being annoying to others by taking up air time at the microphone? Perhaps so. But being annoying is not a crime. If it were, John Kerry, President Bush and practically elected official in the country should be arrested. They're all far more annoying than Meyer. Additional information from the courts: "Each person has the right to resist an unlawful arrest. In such a case, the person attempting the arrest stands in the position of a wrongdoer and may be resisted by the use of force, as in self- defense." (State v. Mobley, 240 N.C. 476, 83 S.E. 2d 100 This is taken from my opinion.... This makes me sick. 1. This guy is being censored after asking legitimate questions. 2. Instead of being controlled and escorted out by two more than capable big ass dudes, 4 more join in and wrestle him to the ground. 3. At no point do any of the officers offer any explanation as to why hes is being escorted out. 4. The guy can be heard saying to the officers, "If you let me up I will walk out of here". To which their response is "put your hands behind your back and you wont get tased". 5. HE IS ON THE GROUND, ON HIS STOMACH WITH HIS HANDS BEHIND HIS BACK AND,,,THEY TASER HIM! This just solidifies my belief that JUST BECAUSE YOU PASSED THE POLICE ACADEMY, DOES'NT MEAN YOU SHOULD BE A COP!!! Police officers NEED to have extensive Psychological testing done BEFORE AND DURING their time as officers. I know or have run into enough people who are or who want to be cops and they are for the most part meatheads who are are in it to abuse their power.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: I didn't hear the officers shouting, "Leave or be tasered"? From viewing the video, the guy was on the ground and with aleast 5 or more officers they couldn't carry the dude out? Besides, they could have let the dude speak his mind and ramble on hogin' the mike.

I've seen club bouncers do this more than once. One person on each leg and each arm - pick the dude out and carry him out. They pull his limbs out to the side to limit his freedom of movement and ability to resist, then just toss him to the curb.

But these are just hired apes in a bar. Not like the highly trained professional police officers in question.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: In either case, they did not follow the rules.

Ryan, did you follow every rule to the tee that your parents laid down as you were growing up? Have you followed every rule to the tee that you've faced your entire life, including every rule that Cliff has instituted for this very forum? If so, good for you.

I haven't, but I hardly deserve to be arrested and/or tasered for anything I've done. Despite what some of you may believe, I'm a fairly respectable guy, yet I don't hesitate to question authority if I feel it's oppressive and/or abusive.

It's all about judgment. In my opinion, poor judgment was shown by the officers in attendance at that meeting. This wasn't some criminal engaging in criminal activity. This was a student at a school function who had the audacity to ask a question that wasn't previously submitted and okayed. Big freakin' deal. For this he was physically assaulted and shot with a Taser? Something's seriously wrong here...

quote Originally posted by Patrick: This wasn't some criminal engaging in criminal activity.

So why was he arrested for a crime? Could it be because he was OMG wait for it.. . . . . . committing a crime !?!?!?!

quote Originally posted by Phranc: So why was he arrested for a crime? Could it be because he was OMG wait for it.. . . . . . committing a crime !?!?!?!

Duhh... ::::Raises Hand::::


because the pigs said it was a crime and most idiots would actually believe pigs have the authority when the pigs are just pigs... and they have guns so that means they are right even when they are wrong 99% of the time.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Duhh... ::::Raises Hand:::: because the pigs said it was a crime and most idiots would actually believe pigs have the authority when the pigs are just pigs... and they have guns so that means they are right even when they are wrong 99% of the time.

Yes bill we know your an idiot and its every body else fault. Go back to the economy thread and post links to stories. Big boys are talking. Only a moron would say the cops are wrong 99% of the time.

quote Originally posted by Phranc: So why was he arrested for a crime? Could it be because he was OMG wait for it.. . . . . . committing a crime !?!?!?!

Phranc, do you have anything new to bring to the table, or do you wish to simply parrot the same comments over and over?

I'm still waiting for you to respond to my post directed at you back on page one.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 09-19-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Ryan, did you follow every rule to the tee that your parents laid down as you were growing up? Have you followed every rule to the tee that you've faced your entire life, including every rule that Cliff has instituted for this very forum? If so, good for you. I haven't, but I hardly deserve to be arrested and/or tasered for anything I've done. Despite what some of you may believe, I'm a fairly respectable guy, yet I don't hesitate to question authority if I feel it's oppressive and/or abusive. It's all about judgment. In my opinion, poor judgment was shown by the officers in attendance at that meeting. This wasn't some criminal engaging in criminal activity. This was a student at a school function who had the audacity to ask a question that wasn't previously submitted and okayed. Big freakin' deal. For this he was physically assaulted and shot with a Taser? Something's seriously wrong here...

I agree with you completely, but with one minor difference.... Had he cooperated and walked out of the room, this would not have ended as it did. And we would not be talking about it. I also think the person on video saying to "read the question" was probably a school administrator, who signaled to the officers to remove him, but that's pure speculation........

There's nothing wrong with breaking the rules. (well........ you know what I mean ) You just have to take responsibility for whatever results from that.

"I didn't do anything wrong!"

Uhh, yeah you did. If you didn't do anything wrong you wouldn't have been kicked out of the room.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Phranc, do you have anything new to bring to the table, or do you wish to simply parrot the same comments over and over? I'm still waiting for you to respond to my post directed at you back on page one.

Do use a favour and hold your breath while you wait.
Why am I parroting? Its because you can't understand what a crime is. Why do people keep saying he wasn't committing a crime when any one who looks at the video and is honest can clearly see he is.

quote Originally posted by Skanc: Yes bill we know your an idiot and its every body else fault. Go back to the economy thread and post links to stories.

I should know better than to even attept to post a reply to your mouse traps.

quote Big boys are talking.

ROTMFAO!!!!!!!!!

quote Only a moron would say the cops are wrong 99% of the time.

ROFLBAGWISDMFLMGDMFFFATFO!!

JESUS H!!! LAMFAO!!!

Only a freakin pussy would not argue with that those two priceless statements placed back to back LMAO!!!

GOoOoOd Dam.. thats hilarous.. I OMG...

Damn that was funny LMFAO!!!

STOP IT LOL!!!

LMFGDFAO!!!!

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: ROFLBAGWISDMFLMGDMFFFATFO!! JESUS H!!! LAMFAO!!! Only a freakin pussy would not argue with that those two priceless statements placed back to back LMAO!!! GOoOoOd Dam.. thats hilarous.. I OMG... Damn that was funny LMFAO!!! STOP IT LOL!!! LMFGDFAO!!!!

Whats wrong bill? You said something to further espouse how stupid you are and then you lay down this gem. At you bill, not with you.

quote Originally posted by Phranc: Do use a favour and hold your breath while you wait.

Phranc, you have a unique style of debate - Post lies and fabrications and then do nothing to back them up.

I'm done wasting my time with you in this thread.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Phranc, you have a unique style of debate - Post lies and fabrications and then do nothing to back them up. I'm done wasting my time with you in this thread.

Where did I post lies and fabrications? Just because I wont stroke your ego its not true? If you're gonna call me a lier then show where I lied and how exactly its a lie. Can you do that? Its easy to call me a lier it'll be impossible for you to back it up.

quote Originally posted by Phranc: Whats wrong bill? You said something to further espouse how stupid you are and then you lay down this gem. At you bill, not with you.

LMAO!!
Skank grow a set of nuts and then we can talk, till then just lay up on your porch with the puppies and maybe the man will treat you to a bone later LOL...

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: "I didn't do anything wrong!"

Perhaps on occasion we need to redefine what is right and what is "wrong".

Was it "wrong" for the emerging American states to stand up to the British a couple hundred years ago and defy their rules?

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Perhaps on occasion we need to redefine what is right and what is "wrong". Was it "wrong" for the emerging American states to stand up to the British a couple hundred years ago and defy their rules?

Go Patrick!!

quote Originally posted by Phranc: Where did I post lies and fabrications? Just because I wont stroke your ego its not true? If you're gonna call me a lier then show where I lied and how exactly its a lie. Can you do that? Its easy to call me a lier it'll be impossible for you to back it up.

No sh!t Phranc, but you've got to be the most dense person I've ever had an exchange with (I refuse to call it a "debate") in any internet forum I've ever been a member of.

I quoted you, I asked you politely to qualify your comments. When you ignored my post, I directed you to it again using the date and time of my original post, yet you continue to refuse to respond. Why? Because your comments were total fabrications pulled out of your wazoo is why.

I feel like I'm picking on a five year old when I'm arguing with you. Can't you go play somewhere else?

quote Originally posted by Patrick: No sh!t Phranc, but you've got to be the most dense person I've ever had an exchange with (I refuse to call it a "debate") in any internet forum I've ever been a member of. I quoted you, I asked you politely to qualify your comments. When you ignored my post, I directed you to it again using the date and time of my original post, yet you continue to refuse to respond. Why? Because your comments were total fabrications pulled out of your wazoo is why. I feel like I'm picking on a five year old when I'm arguing with you. Can't you go play somewhere else?

I ignored you so it must be a lie !!! Can you prove they are lies and fabricated? No you can't because they aren't but by all means continue to liable away. If you're going to call me a lier prove it. Show how I exactly lied. You can't. I'm dense because you called me a lier and now can't back that up? Please show me where and how I lied exactly. It shouldn't be to hard since you seem to think its so apparent. If you're going to liable a person at least back it up. Maybe I ignored you because you weren't worth my time. While you're at it pointing out how exactly I lied dig up an irrelevantly history fact.