quote Originally posted by Phranc: I ignored you so it must be a lie !!! Can you prove they are lies and fabricated? No you can't because they aren't but by all means continue to liable away. If you're going to call me a lier prove it. Show how I exactly lied. You can't. I'm dense because you called me a lier and now can't back that up? Please show me where and how I lied exactly. It shouldn't be to hard since you seem to think its so apparent. If you're going to liable a person at least back it up. Maybe I ignored you because you weren't worth my time. While you're at it pointing out how exactly I lied dig up an irrelevantly history fact.

[EDIT] I wasn't going to bother quoting the above, but since this post is at the top of page 4...

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 09-19-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Patrick: [EDIT] I wasn't going to bother quoting the above, but since this post is at the top of page 4...

That doesn't prove I'm a lier. Thats twice you have failed to back up your liable claim I'm a lier. Is it really that hard? Why are you having so much trouble? I thought you had all the answers? Why can't you back your fallacious claims?

Phranc, in the center of your head is a moldy grapefruit.

It’s now up to you to prove I’m a liar.

Right....So you call me a lier but fail to prove it.

And I didn't call you a lier. I would call you wrong. And proving there isn't a moldy grape fruit in my head is easy.See its easy to prove the truth. You however fabricated that I lied because I ignored you. If I lied you could easily show how exactly. But instead you dance around the issue and bring up ridiculous relativisms to obfuscate. Your tactics are juvenile yet you equate me to the 5 year old.


Why can't you back up that I lied? Why can't you show where I lied? Why can't you show how I lied?

Oh lordy lordy, this is going from silly to somewhat scary. Time to go walk the dog...

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Perhaps on occasion we need to redefine what is right and what is "wrong". Was it "wrong" for the emerging American states to stand up to the British a couple hundred years ago and defy their rules?

The British (now US) traitors answered the consequences of their actions with the revolutionary war. They knew what would happen if they stood up to the king.

The UF student answered the consequences of his actions with the taser and arrest. He knew what would happen if he fought the officers.

Do you blame the king/officers for the actions of the offenders? No. They're just doing their job. Maybe something will come of this (as from the war) and they will relax the question and answer formalities. My guess is it will swing the opposite way and they'll appoint a single senior/responsible student to ask all the questions. Class president or something.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Oh lordy lordy, this is going from silly to somewhat scary. Time to go walk the dog...

You go do that. It'll save you from having to prove your fallacious and liable claims. Maybe the next time run off on the mouth about people being a lier you back it up. Then you wont have to get schooled on it again.

You've had plenty of chances to back it up but you can't. I can see how you'd thing thats silly and then scary when you're called out on it. Last chance. Where exactly did I lie? How exactly did I lie?

IBTL

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: The UF student answered the consequences of his actions with the taser and arrest. He knew what would happen if he fought the officers.

Has he stated that?

Perhaps when this student stepped up to the mic he expected to get an answer (from Kerry) to his question.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: Do you blame the king/officers for the actions of the offenders? No. They're just doing their job.

Was it the cops job to physically assualt and taser a student who wanted to ask a question which hadn’t been previously submitted and okayed? I hate to see what they do with jay-walkers on that campus.

Maybe these particular cops would be better suited to work as bouncers in a strip club.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: My guess is it will swing the opposite way and they'll appoint a single senior/responsible student to ask all the questions. Class president or something.

Oh, that will really be informative for people in the audience. Screen all the questions and have some flunky ask the soft ones. Great.

Ryan, I don’t think we’re really too much in disagreement here, but nevertheless thanks for keeping the discussion civil.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Has he stated that?

Well he said "don't tase me" twice..... So I think he had an idea that he was about to be tased if he didn't stop fighting.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Was it the cops job to physically assualt and taser a student who wanted to ask a question which hadn’t been previously submitted and okayed?

NO!!
It was their job to escort a student out. I mentioned this already, but if you watch the tape at 1:42 remaining, the guy pushed the officers off of him. Isn't that a physical assault?

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Ryan, I don’t think we’re really too much in disagreement here, but nevertheless thanks for keeping the discussion civil.

you're welcome.

Ryan, why are so many people failing to see what you and I have repeatedly said? The officers were merely doing their job AS INSTRUCTED BY THE SCHOOL. The school made the decision to have him removed. They have the right to do that! He was not being conducive to the session and had broken their rules. It was their at their (the school's) discretion to have him removed. The officers tried to ESCORT him out, not arrest him. You people are being fooled by this guys staged gimmick. As soon as they try to LEAD him away from the podium, he begins yelling "Why are you arresting me?!" when in actuallity they were not. It was such a show for the camera. It was at this point he shoved the officers, NOW THEY have the right to arrest him for disorderly conduct. The whole response about the right to rebel against unlawful arrest has no application here. He resisted a private institutions enforcement of rules. And, as others have stated, he was not being arresting initially when he rebeled.

The officers gave him plenty of chances to comply and he chose to be tazed. He was warned numerous times.

The post about the wheelchair bound lady being tazed is completely unrelated. That was a time where the cops were horribly at fault. I have no problem admitting that. I am no cop-worshiper, but I can rationally look at a situation and see it for what it is.

The problem here is respect for LEO's. It seems today the thought is that the law and cops are always out to get innocent people. Yes, I admit there are plenty of times where this has been the case, but it's that demeanor that is heightening these problems. Had he calmly walked out with the officers who were escorting him, none of this would be a problem. Instead, he starts blaming the cops for his "arrest" even though they were merely escorting him in the beginning. If anything, this punk should have been yelling at the school officials who decided to have him removed ":waaahhhh: Why are you having me escorted out!? :wahhhh:"

quote Originally posted by ConvictedRedneck: I can rationally look at a situation and see it for what it is.

And I can rationally look at a post and see it for what it is as well - in this case a thoughtfully written but naive rambling by a young fella who figures he's got life all figured out. Tell me ConvictedRedneck, are you twenty years old yet?

You may change your tune after you've been severely harassed by a crooked cop or an abusive boss or a tyrannical government official. Then it becomes just a little more difficult to easily determine without any doubt black from white, good from bad, right from wrong....

quote Originally posted by ConvictedRedneck: It seems today the thought is that the law and cops are always out to get innocent people.

That’s their job... everyone is suspect and they (the man) are just itching to wrestle a citizen to the ground and law down a nice ass whipping so later on back at the station they can high five and back slap.

quote Had he calmly walked out with the officers who were escorting him, none of this would be a problem. Instead, he starts blaming the cops for his "arrest" even though they were merely escorting him in the beginning. If anything, this punk should have been yelling at the school officials who decided to have him removed ":waaahhhh: Why are you having me escorted out!? :wahhhh:"

Had the pigs calmly stood off they guy would have brought up some compelling questions and forced an answer out of a PUBLIC SERVANT.

Important questions that NEED to be answered that our public servants MUST address no matter how "off the wall" or seemingly unworthy they may appear. Even a blind hog can find an acorn. IE the truth can be exposed if one is permitted to find it.

The thirty second question answer sessions are designed to not allow the candidate to be painted into a corner. The thirty second rule was designed for fairness and allow others to speak is just a feel good front, anyone believing that to be true is just an unwitting and hapless part of the machines grand design... IE to keep the people stupid and the criminals in charge.... indefinatly!

So Patrick. Are you going to correct your fallacious liable statements or prove where and how I lied?

liable? wtf is he liable for?

saying the guy "resisted arrest" is a lie.
and, still not sure there was a crime commited either. but, thats hair splitting. felony, misdemeanor, whatever "not listening to the principal" falls under....but - somehow - a beat down doesnt seem to fit the "crime". but - I do know, that with Mr. Kerry in the auditorium - you dont have room to mess around like this fool did.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: liable? wtf is he liable for? saying the guy "resisted arrest" is a lie. and, still not sure there was a crime commited either. but, thats hair splitting. felony, misdemeanor, whatever "not listening to the principal" falls under....but - somehow - a beat down doesnt seem to fit the "crime". but - I do know, that with Mr. Kerry in the auditorium - you dont have room to mess around like this fool did.

Liable for calling me a liar. A statement he can't back up. Saying the guy resisted arrest isn't a lie. Did you watch the video? Why did they taze him? Because he resisted arrest. If you still not sure a crime was committed maybe you should pay better attention to things like the kid going to jail and having charges pressed against him. At least try to be honest about why he was tazed. It wasn't because he didn't listen to the principal. It was for resisting arrest after causing a public disruption and disturbing the peace. But don't let all the facts get in the way.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: Had the pigs calmly stood off they guy would have brought up some compelling questions and forced an answer out of a PUBLIC SERVANT. Important questions that NEED to be answered that our public servants MUST address no matter how "off the wall" or seemingly unworthy they may appear. Even a blind hog can find an acorn. IE the truth can be exposed if one is permitted to find it. The thirty second question answer sessions are designed to not allow the candidate to be painted into a corner. The thirty second rule was designed for fairness and allow others to speak is just a feel good front, anyone believing that to be true is just an unwitting and hapless part of the machines grand design... IE to keep the people stupid and the criminals in charge.... indefinatly!

Bill, why do you seem to still be missing the point? The "pigs" did not make the rules and layout of the QA session. The "pigs" did not make the decision to have the guy removed. If you have a problem with how the session was run, blame the school panel or whomever designed it, not the cops, who were just doing their job as instructed by the school. Please, if you have nothing better to do than cop bash, move along.

And Patrick, no, I am not twenty yet. If you could please inform me though how this affects my ability to discern between good cops and bad cops, good bosses and bad bosses, etc. please let me know. Your statement leads me to believe that just because you have been the victim of a bad cop, abusive boss, etc. means that every cop and boss are out to get you and should be treated such. This is how I understood it, if you meant otherwise, please clarify.

Again, I'm no cop-worshiper. I know cops that were honest, upright citizens and I know cops that were power-tripping egotistic "pigs." Trust me, there are cops where that word has its place for. However, I just dont seem to see how the cops in this situation were pigs. They carried out their job in a professional fashion.

quote Originally posted by ConvictedRedneck: ...... They carried out their job in a professional fashion.

really? delivering a beat down for speaking?
sounds like goon squad

quote Originally posted by ConvictedRedneck: Bill, why do you seem to still be missing the point? The "pigs" did not make the rules and layout of the QA session. The "pigs" did not make the decision to have the guy removed. If you have a problem with how the session was run, blame the school panel or whomever designed it, not the cops, who were just doing their job as instructed by the school. Please, if you have nothing better to do than cop bash, move along.

Then who does that we may go to them and have a discussion on the topic? If our "representitives" do not allow us to question them as we should be allowed and the goon squad enforces these abrbatralily trumped up rules then the question is who is it that made those rules? The college? The State? The federal government? The gestapo? And by what powers of authority do they have to LIMIT the power of free speach... IE the ability to question our representitives at lenght?


Who gave the school the power to usurp the rights of the people and limit their ability to question?

The representitive sitting in that room should have stood and demanded that man be released to complete his questioning. If I was the representitive being questioned I WOULD have not allowed for that to happen becasue I KNOW the rights of the people and they are whome I am serving and THEY have the right to question me and get answers. However I'm not a representitive and am instead the one who DEMANDS a responce from them and as my subordinate they must answer me... and you... and the next guy.

Obviosly it's easier for our reps to HIDE behind some constitutionally usurptiuos rule that is completely 180 from the first Amendment on which Kerry himself swore an oath to bear good faith and alliegence to.

Kerry is a pussy and this event proved it.
Any representitive who has even the remotest idea about the 1st Amendment would have told those gun taoting asshat goons to sit their asses back down and dont move until YOUR BOSS is done speaking.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: ..... The representitive sitting in that room should have stood and demanded that man be released to complete his questioning. If I was the representitive being questioned I WOULD have not allowed for that to happen becasue I KNOW the rights of the people and they are whome I am serving and THEY have the right to question me and get answers. However I'm not a representitive and am instead the one who DEMANDS a responce from them and as my subordinate they must answer me... and you... and the next guy. Obviosly it's easier for our reps to HIDE behind some constitutionally usurptiuos rule that is completely 180 from the first Amendment on which Kerry himself swore an oath to bear good faith and alliegence to. Kerry is a pussy and this event proved it. Any representitive who has even the remotest idea about the 1st Amendment would have told those gun taoting asshat goons to sit their asses back down and dont move until YOUR BOSS is done speaking.

Kerry did in fact ask that Andrew Meyer NOT be removed, and WAS answering his questions. well, as well as he could thru the maniacs filibuster.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: Kerry did in fact ask that Andrew Meyer NOT be removed, and WAS answering his questions. well, as well as he could thru the maniacs filibuster.

Nice "show"


I know dogs that can not only snaral and bark but can actually BITE.

So Kerry barked but he has no teeth and cam move on without having to answer to his boss's questions and or demands.

BTW, the free speech zone for protestors was down the street from the meeting... Go America!

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: really? delivering a beat down for speaking? sounds like goon squad

Well it wasn't a beat down and it wasn't about speaking. But again don't let the facts get in the way.

quote Originally posted by Phranc: Kerry wasn't the one in charge. So it doesn't mater what he said or wanted.

If a representitive is not in charge then we are not only being decieved but we the people are completely and totally ****ed!

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: If a representitive is not in charge then we are not only being decieved but we the people are completely and totally ****ed!

President Dubya to Bill: "Stand on your head and dance monkey! I'm in charge here, and what I says goes! I could have you arrestified and throwed into Gitmo!"

quote Originally posted by ConvictedRedneck: And Patrick, no, I am not twenty yet. If you could please inform me though how this affects my ability to discern between good cops and bad cops, good bosses and bad bosses, etc. please let me know. Your statement leads me to believe that just because you have been the victim of a bad cop, abusive boss, etc. means that every cop and boss are out to get you and should be treated such. This is how I understood it, if you meant otherwise, please clarify.

My point was as you get older, that which appeared clear and well defined when you were young, has now become muddy. This goes well beyond cops, and bosses, etc.

Yes, I thought I knew it all when I was just a kid as well, but experiences throughout life demonstrate that there often aren't easy answers.

Of course, there are individuals who never have a problem at any age discerning what is right and what is wrong. They've convinced themselves either though dogmatic beliefs or psychopathic tendencies that whatever they decide is "right" and damned be the rest of us.

I was so much older then. I'm younger than that, now.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: So Phranc, are you going to prove you don’t have a moldy grapefruit in the center of your head? By the way, are those spores coming out of your ears?

Proof is easy. If I had one I wouldn't have enough space left for the need brain matter to breath, pump blood and type or thing to post this. Now if your done being an idiot and trying in vain to look smart and witty. Either prove where and exactly how I lied or admit you can't because I didn't. But I don't expect much from you. You get called out and you do everything possible to avoid backing your fallacious claim. If your were an honest man you would back up your claims or recant. But its just to hard for you to be honest isn't it. Your ego wont let you admit you're wrong and the truth bars you from backing up your claims. You've had plenty of chances to expose my lies but you haven't? Why not? Why do you obfuscate and try to draw pointless relativism instead? Is it really that hard for you to an honest man? Again I don't expect you to answer any of those with honesty. You've all ready shown you can't. But by all means continue to avoid being an honest man. It only makes you look bad and has no negative reflection on me. If anything it only shows that you were wrong in calling me a lier. I all ready know you are full of it and so does any one else you bothered to read this.

quote Originally posted by Phranc: Why do you obfuscate and try to draw pointless relativism instead?

Where do you find this stuff?

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Where do you find this stuff?

From your posts where you obfuscate and put up pointless relativism (ie: your retarded grapefruit question). And how you did it in just this last post of yours I just quoted. Instead of answering the questions you obfuscate by changing the subject mater. The actions of a dishonest man. You really are a sad little man aren't you. You made the claim now back it up if you can. Or go on being a pathetic dishonest man. I'll bet you go on being dishonest.

quote Originally posted by Phranc: If I had one I wouldn't have enough space left for the need brain matter to breath, pump blood and type or thing to post this.

That's a classic.

Sorry Phranc, can't play any longer. I've got some grown-up things to do...

quote Originally posted by Patrick: That's a classic. Sorry Phranc, can't play any longer. I've got some grown-up things to do...

Yeah I was right you are going to be a dishonest sad little man who makes false claims and then can't back them up and when called out on it runs away.