quote Originally posted by buddycraigg: i have a Colt 380.

I assume it is a Colt Mustang. Actually, you have a great concealed handgun right there when it is carried "cocked-and-locked" (which makes some people nervous)! If you decide to sell it, let me know first! It is an older design, of course. The exposed hammer, its "clothes catching" spur and relatively small trigger guard opening are things that the more modern concealed carry guns have improved upon but the .380 Mustang is a great piece.

The .380 round (9mm short) does not have the stopping power of its big brother, the 9 x19 but at the 7 ft range, it can really HURT its victim . My wife carries a .380 (with a laser sight) and she is very happy with its reputation and relative stopping ability when the bullet is placed center-of-mass in a would-be perp.

I have gone through many pistols over the years and haven't been very satisifed. A few yrs ago I came across a cheap line at first I didn't give it a chance until I shot one at a gun show.

http://www.hi-pointfirearms...hi_point_380acp.html

I carry this on me, and a 45 ACP in my vehicle with me. Never had any problems at all, they're extremely accurate easy to maintain and very light on the wallet.

Something to consider.

quote Originally posted by JohnF: I assume it is a Colt Mustang. Actually, you have a great concealed handgun right there when it is carried "cocked-and-locked"

i prefer to keep it safty off, hammer down. it's easier to pull the hammer back than setting the safety to "F"
it's a mustang pocketlite,


closest thing i'll ever get to a 1911.
and i'll have to will this one to ya, it's not forsale.

[This message has been edited by buddycraigg (edited 01-22-2008).]

quote Originally posted by buddycraigg: i'm not a Taurus fan, but someone has suggested the PT111

Probably me! I am not going to "suggest" the Taurus because there are many very good (reliable) alternatives. Buy what feels right and works for you (or just do what I did suggest and carry that Mustang)!

I carry a PT111 Millenium Pro 9mm on a daily basis and have for about 6 years. Current MSRP is about $400.00. Available most anywhere for under $350.00 with two 12 round mags, carrying case and cleaning rod. I recently did my re-qualification for my Concealed Carry License here in Texas with my PT111. I scored a 249 out of 250 possible. It will do the job you want it to do.

In the 1000 or so rounds I've put down the pipe of this weapon (my second PT111), I 've had 2 hiccups. One FTE and one FTF. Both incidents were firing Federal "Premium Personal Defense" 135 gr HP ammo from the same box. So, moral is, don't buy any more of that stuff! Everything else I've put through it makes it "run like a Singer sewing machine" to use the old comparison. I keep it stuffed 12+1 with Magtech Guardian Gold 115 gr +P for carry. http://www.magtechammunitio...th=00000000,00000102

My heart still lies with the newish Springfield XD subcompact, though, hehehehehe

quote Originally posted by JohnF: Probably me! I am not going to "suggest" the Taurus because there are many very good (reliable) alternatives. Buy what feels right and works for you (or just do what I did suggest and carry that Mustang)!

a friend is possibly buying one this weekend and plans on coming over sunday, so i'll have a chance to touchie feelie one.
something that has helped my budget is i have a 1968 baby browning that i plan on trading in, they sell on gunbroker.com for 300-400 in the same condition as mine.

i love my springfield 1911 45 auto,, it operates flawless and has not one time jammed, its got the tapered ramp that feeds the ammo in the barrel..400.00 is a great buy on these, i bought it off gunbrokers.com

[This message has been edited by 86blackse (edited 01-23-2008).]

quote Originally posted by buddycraigg: i'm eyeing a Kel-Tec PF9. any opinions?

I have the Kel-Tec P3AT .380
$300 brand new. The PF9 wasnt out at the time.

quote Originally posted by 86blackse: i love my springfield 1911 45 auto,, it operates flawless and has not one time jammed, its got the tapered ramp that feeds the ammo in the barrel..400.00 is a great buy on these, i bought it off gunbrokers.com

Don't we all! I shot IPSC for many years with a Springfield .45 race gun.You must be a very BIG guy to carry this as a concealed weapon, though. About 3 lbs in loaded weight and nearly twice the physical size (5 inch barrel) of the subcompact .45s on the market make this a "real man's" constant companion. Oh BTW - also only 8 rounds available without reloading.

quote Originally posted by 86blackse:

2 things i want to mention.

1 that thing is way too freakin big for me.
and
2 the US engraved in the grip and the "made in Brazil" stamped in the frame is funny to me.

Checkout this forum for good info and links on Kel-Tek.... BBTs

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl

quote Originally posted by buddycraigg: the "made in Brazil" stamped in the frame is funny to me.

This is NOT a Springfield .45 if it says "Made in Brazil" on the frame! I can't see it on my monitor. Springfield guns are made in Springfield, Illinois, hehehehehe.


I

[This message has been edited by JohnF (edited 01-23-2008).]

quote Originally posted by InTheLead: I have gone through many pistols over the years and haven't been very satisifed. A few yrs ago I came across a cheap line at first I didn't give it a chance until I shot one at a gun show. http://www.hi-pointfirearms...hi_point_380acp.html I carry this on me, and a 45 ACP in my vehicle with me. Never had any problems at all, they're extremely accurate easy to maintain and very light on the wallet. Something to consider.

I never have liked their handguns a whole lot, and yes i DO own one, its one of their 9mm Compensated models. Its about 7 or 8 years old now. Now, that said, they do work when you pull the trigger, and seem reliable for occasional range shooting but they are HUGE ( too big for me to carry ) and i dont know if id trust my life on one in a life or death situation. But they are also cheap. A pain to tear down.... I guess if i was poor they would be better then nothing, but i think id rather rely on a Bersa if i couldn't afford better.

Now, their rifles, they are cool ( got one of them too )

well my friend is picking one up on saturday. and i get to shoot it

JohnF?
the sights seem kinda tall, do you have any problems with it snaging on clothing?

quote Originally posted by buddycraigg: JohnF? the sights seem kinda tall, do you have any problems with it snaging on clothing?

Never. The sights will not snag. Look how they are shaped. I usually carry in a paddle holster or a belt slide. Sometimes when in the Fiero I use a shoulder holster because the paddle or slide fits tight against the seat belt attachment thus against the console (I'm right handed) making the gun difficult to extract. With the gun under my left arm it is easy/quick to bring to battery with the shoulder harness and seat belt engaged. Carjackers BEWARE!

i saw that the sight was slanted on the back edge, but still wondered because it's so tall.
my friend got it for 329. i was tempted to say i was in right then. but i'll just wait till i have a chance to play with his.
.
.
.
does anyone know of any compact 9mm's that are DA on the first shot and then SA on the rest?
i really prefer a DA trigger pull verses a manual safety.

and as a side note.
i've been watching gunbroker.com and it seems that baby brownings in fair shape go for 300-400. i've got one i'll never do anything with and might as well use it as trade-in, or sell for cash to increase my buying power for a gun that i will actually do something with.

[This message has been edited by buddycraigg (edited 01-23-2008).]

$329 is a fair price. MSRP is $400.00. Here is the slide holster:


Good fitting holsters for the Millennium Pro can be a bit hard to find. The Pro gun is slightly different in shape from the original Millennium. Note the extreme forward cant. Makes for a very quick draw and a comfortable but very secure carry. It fits so tightly against your side that you don't even know it is there. Added is the fact that it is so slim that no one else will notice it either. This holster was custom made by a Texas holster maker near Ft. Worth, Texas (about $60.00).

This paddle holster is specifically made for the Pro version. It is the Fobus SP 11B (about $20.00).



The paddle holster holds the gun a wee bit higher on the waist than the slide but is a wee bit more obtrusive under a tee shirt.

When you shoot it, remember it is a short range concealed carry defensive weapon. It is NOT a 50 yard target pistol! It will group its bullets into one ragged hole at 21 yards (if YOU are that good ).

quote Originally posted by JohnF: It will group its bullets into one ragged hole at 21 yards (if YOU are that good ).

if someone is at 21 yards, unless they've got a bigger gun, they are not a threat to me yet.

and i cant even get .22s out of a ruger to stay in a 2" group... i sure the hell cant do better with a 3" barrel

[This message has been edited by buddycraigg (edited 01-24-2008).]

OK
I have narrowed my choice down to 5 pistols

Kel Tec PF9 chrome
Taurus pt111 Millennium Pro stainless
Stoeger/Beretta MiniCougar 9mm
Firestorm MiniFirestorm / Bersa Thunder 9mm
Kahr PM9

anyone have anything bad to say about these
(except for the price of the Kahr)

quote Originally posted by buddycraigg: OK I have narrowed my choice down to 5 pistols Kel Tec PF9 chrome Taurus pt111 Millennium Pro stainless Stoeger/Beretta MiniCougar 9mm Firestorm MiniFirestorm / Bersa Thunder 9mm Kahr PM9 anyone have anything bad to say about these (except for the price of the Kahr)

KelTec, I have made comments on above. Taurus, I have made several comments. My wife shoots/carries the Bersa .380 (the Thunder 9mm is exactly the same gun, just different caliber). It is relatively inexpensive, very reliable, accurate at defensive ranges and very easy to carry concealed (because of the thin profile and light weight of the single stack mag - so relatively limited available rounds). I have no experience with the Beretta MiniCougar but I would bet it is a good option.

If you are going to consider the Kahr, you may as well add the Springfield XD subcompact in 9mm or .40 cal (my REAL choice) and the ubquitous Glock. Unless it is absolutely necessary financially, don't rule out the $500.00 guns.

quote Originally posted by JohnF: you may as well add the Springfield XD subcompact in 9mm or .40 cal (my REAL choice)

i cant find anywhere that says how wide it is.

Just wait for a gun show and attend one of those. Even if you do not buy from there you will see a better selection than any gun store.

Just a word about Kel-Tec. Their customer support is unbeatable. I had a slight problem with my P3AT so I emailed them asking what or if there was a fix to that particular problem. Within 2 days there were new parts at my house. No questions asked.
Everyone that has dealt with Kel-Tec customer service cannot say enough about them. They truly want to make & keep their customers happy.

Springfield XD Subcompact:
Maker/Importer: Springfield Armory
Action Type:Semiautomatic pistol, recoil operated via Browning-type tilting barrel
Caliber: 9mm Luger
Capacity: 10+1
Barrel Length: 3 inches
Overall Length: 6.26 inches
Weight: 20.5 ounces
Sights: Fixed, square notch, dovetail front and rear
Trigger: USA Action trigger
Finish: Matte black
Price:$512

Nor could I find width. It is not wider than a PT111.

quote Originally posted by OH10fiero: Just wait for a gun show and attend one of those. Even if you do not buy from there you will see a better selection than any gun store.

I went to a gun show about 3 weeks ago, they mostly had rifles.

O.K., found it!
XD Subcompact in .40 cal is 1.24 inches max width with 9 + 1 round or 12 + 1 round mag and 30.4 oz loaded weight (13 rounds).
Kel-Tec P40 is 1.14 in. wide with a 9 + 1 capacity and 22. 4 oz loaded weight (10 rounds).
PT 111 is 1.125 inches with 12 round capacity.
The Bersa Thunder is 1.50 inches in width with 11 round capacity.

Added to all that is the choice of ammo, too. Interesting and informative data here: http://www.internetarmory.com/handgunammo.htm

BTW - After all is considered, don't get me wrong, the Taurus PT 111 is a nice, reliable caoncealed arry weapon and is in the lower $300.00 range.

Note the .40 cal has a bit better overall "one-shot" stop record than either the 9mm or the .45 ACP. It is even better than the .44 Mag!

[This message has been edited by JohnF (edited 01-25-2008).]

i would like to say a big "F you" to JohnF.

I'm now out 483.00... totally blowing my budget.

Springfield is having some promotion until 01/31 and I get all this for that price:
XD sub compact 9mm black, 10 round clip, 16 round clip, cable lock, XD gear belt holster, Magazine loader, double mag pouch, XD gear mag X-tension

cost 450.00 plus tax.

it should be here Tuesday.

[This message has been edited by buddycraigg (edited 01-25-2008).]

Congratulations! You won't be disappointed, hehehehe! You have the very best the market offers and at a very good purchase price.

Now, because I don't have one (yet). Show me what it will do! A couple of hundred rounds of ball ammo, then 100 rounds of good defensive ammo will tell the tale.

quote Originally posted by JohnF: Show me what it will do! A couple of hundred rounds of ball ammo, then 100 rounds of good defensive ammo will tell the tale.

remember you are talking to a guy that cant keep a ruger 22 in a 2" group at 5 yards. so dont expect too much.

about the gun, i stopped at my local (over priced) gun store on the way home with the list of pistols i was interested in.
they didn't have any of them. but they did have a XD 9 sub.

i touched it, i dry fired it.
and even though i hold my thumb tip incorrectly, right on the mag release, i dont think it will be a problem.

as to how it felt in my hand, and the trigger pull.
i probably would only be this happy again if i had a bottle of tequila, a couple of viagras and Nicole Kidman for a weekend

[This message has been edited by buddycraigg (edited 01-25-2008).]

I wish we would get carry laws here.... Oh well. I wish I had the funding to get an other gun too, but I am buying a house in a couple months and the wife and I are working on a down payment. I am a little dissapointed that noone recommended an H&K. I love mine!

Just to keep you up to the latest, stuff your new XD with these: http://www.cheaperthandirt....15500-14776-287.html

BTW - there is absolutely nothing wrong with the H & K option! If you like it, use it! The XD Subcompact just happens to be the very latest incorporation of all the best info on the market today according to most magazine contributors and testers (and it doesn't hurt to support American manufacturers).

quote Originally posted by RacinRob: I am a little disappointed that no one recommended an H&K. I love mine!

remember, I said i had a $300 limit.
i researched HK's. they looked great, but they were close to the 800.00 mark.

and really from here on out, everything is hind site... i might as well be pregnant. The springfield is on the way.

[This message has been edited by buddycraigg (edited 01-25-2008).]

quote Originally posted by buddycraigg: they did have a XD 9 sub.

So, if it was "in stock", why Tuesday for delivery. You should be shooting this weekend! Don't tell me Mo. has the crazy "waiting period" stuff or something! If so, do you have your concealed carry license? Does it make a difference in delivery times when you purchase a handgun from a licensed dealer? Here in Texas a concealed carry license (CHL) does not make a difference. A handgun can be purchased by a non-CHL (CCW) holder from a licensed dealer and delivery takes about 2 minutes! A phone call (NICS) is the approving factor regardless of CHL status.

"We're sorry, but this product is currently not available." Those Corbon's are sold out and cost $26.77 for a box of 20 (plus shipping)... if they are in stock in the future. I don't think Buddy is going to invest in 5 boxes just to see if they feed well. Just shoot between the eyes with Plain Jane FMJ's

I'd like to hear your impressions of the XD. That's one of the pistols that I've been looking at, and it feels great in the store. Unfortunately, I don't know anyone who has one; so I don't have an opportunity to try one out before I buy it.

For me, since it's a choice between a Glock and the XD; I'm leaning towards the Glock, as I've fired a few of those and I love the way they feel. If the XD is comparable to the Glock, then I may have to take a closer look at them before I purchase anything.

quote Originally posted by westtexas: this product is currently not available.I don't think Buddy is going to invest in 5 boxes just to see if they feed well. Just shoot between the eyes with Plain Jane FMJ's

From the quoted outlet, they are not available. Other outlets can have them. I only sent the reference to show the ammo, not the dealer. I really think buddy can shoot whatever he wants and spend whatever he wants. A $100.00 or so in ammo costs is really a relatively cheap insurance policy to absolutely KNOW you and your weapon are ready and capable when needed.

Are you so naive as to think that in the emotional pressure of a lethal force situation, you have time to aim and hit a person "between the eyes"? I doubt seriously you could do it with a baseball bat and certainly not with a handgun!

The nice thing about the 9mm is that you can shoot the hell out of it for cheap. I think scheels and and gander mountian have boxes of 250 FMJ rounds for $70. Then just get a couple of boxes of your PD ammo and make sure it is close.

I find this thread interesting because I have a Texas CHL and carry regularly. I think being proficient with a handgun and being able to place a bullet accurately is more important than the type bullet. I also know that under stress (I have it fairly regularly since I am a middle school teacher) that I don't always handle it well. When my adrenaline is flowing only three percent of my consciousness is working. Who knows where the rest of my brain is? My heart is pounding and breathing rate up. Could I try to pull the trigger with the safety on? Yes. Could I try to pull the trigger with the chamber empty? Yes. Could I spend 30 seconds trying to draw the pistol while scared and shaking? Yes. Could I misjudge the correct time or place to draw it. Another yes. I'm not too much different than police who spray bullet under duress and miss 10 times or one store clerk who almost shot himself in the foot and then blew out the store's plate glass windows finally wounding the robber with the 12th bullet.

John, I apologize for irritating you. Unfortunately, I didn't control the temptation. I've just come to the conclusion that, for me, practicing enough to be able to place a .45 FMJ is more important then having great penetration and expansion. Those darn Speer Gold Points don't load well in my Taurus PT145. Slide locks up when I rack it. The Federal Hydro Shocks cost $26/box of 20. I can't afford to practice with them. I'm sure the XD will handle all types of bullets well and is a much better choice. I'm finished with this thread. Good luck Buddy.

quote Originally posted by JohnF: So, if it was "in stock", why Tuesday for delivery.

because they wanted 559.99 plus tax.
i walked out to my car and got on my phone and called the "table top" dealer i'm working with.

when he said 483.00 i interrupted him and said "get me one".
he didn't have the chance to say that included tax or about the promotion.

EDIT, and MO stopped doing the 5 day wait last year in august

[This message has been edited by buddycraigg (edited 01-26-2008).]