Noooooo! Why'd they have to shoot my buddy like that. I was just texting him a few days ago. His last text to me was that he was my BFFL. You know, Big Foot For Life.

------------------
Whade' "The Duck Formerly Known As Wade" Duck
'87 GT Auto
'88 Ferrario
'84 Indy

It's got to be a hoax. Even worse, Loren Coleman's sites both got hacked and destroyed right at this same time (he is one of the world's foremost experts on cryptozoology and a major skeptic of the "body" that has been found. He reposted a story he did awhile back about the guy involved. Now his site is gone.

Read about it here.

Hoaxers do more harm to cryptozoologists than not finding anything ever could.

I'm not saying I believe there are bigfoot creatures roaming the countryside, but I find it plausible to believe in a creature that is in nearly every culture's lore on earth and has links to fossil life.

It'll be interesting to see where this all goes.

- Flamberge

quote Originally posted by whadeduck: Noooooo! Why'd they have to shoot my buddy like that. I was just texting him a few days ago. His last text to me was that he was my BFFL. You know, Big Foot For Life.

There is something wrong with you, but that was funny

I like to believe there can be all sorts of stuff out there that we don't find. But if you really wanted to find this thing now couldn't you just take a helicopter out there with some of that heat sensing stuff and find it?

quote Originally posted by Flamberge: It's got to be a hoax. Even worse, Loren Coleman's sites both got hacked and destroyed right at this same time (he is one of the world's foremost experts on cryptozoology and a major skeptic of the "body" that has been found. He reposted a story he did awhile back about the guy involved. Now his site is gone. Read about it here. Hoaxers do more harm to cryptozoologists than not finding anything ever could. I'm not saying I believe there are bigfoot creatures roaming the countryside, but I find it plausible to believe in a creature that is in nearly every culture's lore on earth and has links to fossil life. It'll be interesting to see where this all goes. - Flamberge

I'll restate my first post in this thread (third post overall):

I don't buy it. Somebody finally has PROOF of bigfoot and they stuff him in a crappy little freezer as opposed to getting it to a real facility? ...snip...Sorry, but 7 foot tall, 500 pound animals can't roam around undetected for hundreds of years. I don't buy it for one second...

quote Originally posted by FieroFanatic13: Sorry, but 7 foot tall, 500 pound animals can't roam around undetected for hundreds of years. I don't buy it for one second...

Well, if they've been detected, surely there would be stories of those encounters, footprint molds, different names of the monster from the native people, news reports dating back to the invention of the newspaper, plus an occasional photo or video as well.

That's not the problem. The problem is the hoaxes that discredit everything. And the methods used to find this (or any other) creature. And the fact that eye witness testimony is always shaky at best. Photos are grainy because people aren't expecting to capture something that needs to be blown up 100x off of their 2 megapixel camera or traditional point and shoot with ASA/ISO 200 film in it. Consumer video cameras can't zoom in or record at the level that would allow scientists to really verify a big foot versus a guy in a monkey suit. Foot prints can be faked. So all of that said, how can it be surprising that something that is elusive would be able to avoid detection for so long. (Now to *really* play devil's advocate, also consider a creature that is intelligent enough to compare to early hominids. If that were true, maybe this creature buries its dead.)

There is so much land in America that might go two hundred years without having a person walk through it, it isn't a stretch to consider a large intelligent mammal making itself scarce, especially when you think about how hard it can be to see an animal in a heavy forest that doesn't want to be seen. Having lived in Alaska for a few years, and hiking and mountain biking a lot while I was there, I passed bears and moose countless times without seeing them until I was passed. And they top 500 pounds.

Again, I'm not saying there IS such an animal as big foot alive on earth today, I'm only debating that it is entirely possible that across the globe a creature that matches the descriptions of native peoples from numerous areas might have existed, or still exists today.

Good debate!

- Flamberge

quote Originally posted by Flamberge: Well, if they've been detected, surely there would be stories of those encounters, footprint molds, different names of the monster from the native people, news reports dating back to the invention of the newspaper, plus an occasional photo or video as well. That's not the problem. The problem is the hoaxes that discredit everything. And the methods used to find this (or any other) creature. And the fact that eye witness testimony is always shaky at best. Photos are grainy because people aren't expecting to capture something that needs to be blown up 100x off of their 2 megapixel camera or traditional point and shoot with ASA/ISO 200 film in it. Consumer video cameras can't zoom in or record at the level that would allow scientists to really verify a big foot versus a guy in a monkey suit. Foot prints can be faked. So all of that said, how can it be surprising that something that is elusive would be able to avoid detection for so long. (Now to *really* play devil's advocate, also consider a creature that is intelligent enough to compare to early hominids. If that were true, maybe this creature buries its dead.) There is so much land in America that might go two hundred years without having a person walk through it, it isn't a stretch to consider a large intelligent mammal making itself scarce, especially when you think about how hard it can be to see an animal in a heavy forest that doesn't want to be seen. Having lived in Alaska for a few years, and hiking and mountain biking a lot while I was there, I passed bears and moose countless times without seeing them until I was passed. And they top 500 pounds. Again, I'm not saying there IS such an animal as big foot alive on earth today, I'm only debating that it is entirely possible that across the globe a creature that matches the descriptions of native peoples from numerous areas might have existed, or still exists today. Good debate! - Flamberge

Yes, good debate.

But the US doesn't have that many areas that are large enough and untraveled enough to support the number of animals required to keep a species of this size viable for this long without being seen/found or leaving any REAL evidence. This is a LARGE species if we're talking human size or larger. It's virtually impossible genetically for there to be so few and have them survive all this time even if they do "hide really well."

I hear your point on how easy it is to miss large animals, etc., but we SEE evidence of Moose, etc. Animals need to eat and in order to eat they need to travel and when they travel they will leave evidence...And animals this large need to eat quite a lot so they'd be pretty active.

On the "may have once existed" thought- frankly, IF a creature like "big foot" has lived at the same time as modern humans, we'd know more about him than simple legends. Even the ancient Greeks collected dinosaur fossils and put them on display. There's no way big foot was running around in recent human history and nobody ever killed one or found one already dead or collected his dried up bones.

[This message has been edited by FieroFanatic13 (edited 08-15-2008).]

And with something conceivably intelligent... cognizant, self aware and communicative....... does killing one constitute murder?

I guess those Jack links jerky guys killed him by accident :-)

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: And with something conceivably intelligent... cognizant, self aware and communicative....... does killing one constitute murder?

Irrelevant. How does it taste?

quote Originally posted by FieroFanatic13: Yes, good debate. But the US doesn't have that many areas that are large enough and untraveled enough to support the number of animals required to keep a species of this size viable for this long without being seen/found or leaving any REAL evidence. This is a LARGE species if we're talking human size or larger. It's virtually impossible genetically for there to be so few and have them survive all this time even if they do "hide really well." I hear your point on how easy it is to miss large animals, etc., but we SEE evidence of Moose, etc. Animals need to eat and in order to eat they need to travel and when they travel they will leave evidence...And animals this large need to eat quite a lot so they'd be pretty active. On the "may have once existed" thought- frankly, IF a creature like "big foot" has lived at the same time as modern humans, we'd know more about him than simple legends. Even the ancient Greeks collected dinosaur fossils and put them on display. There's no way big foot was running around in recent human history and nobody ever killed one or found one already dead or collected his dried up bones.

Exactly...where are the turds from a damn near 8ft creature. while this may be a big steaming pile of bs, its gotten everyones attention....

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: And with something conceivably intelligent... cognizant, self aware and communicative....... does killing one constitute murder?

Well, it would HAVE to, wouldn't it? I mean, I heard of a case where a guy was being tried for MURDER for killing a police DOG because after all it was an OFFICER!
Of course, they never followed up on the story (like so many others they just drop).
But IF these are sentient (assuming they are real), then new laws would have to be written to protect them. Think about it: Chimps can talk to us using sign language, & are apparently self-aware. Could SETI have a language? Could we learn it?

I have to go find a link, which is MY personal tie to bigfoot.

I believe anything is possible and I try and keep an open mind about everything, and I have a feeling these guys found something. I mean why in the hell would they go through all of this trouble, tell us they have a body and are willing to have it looked at and DNA tested by experts. That crap is EXPENSIVE!! It seems like a long way to go for a Hoax, not to mention dragging some type of dead animal that far, if it is not Bigfoot.

Did you know that the Silver back mountain gorillas of Africa and Pandas of China were not discovered by man until the late 1800s! Also the Coelacanth fish was believed to be extinct 65 million years ago, and it was found in the early 20th century, its basically a dinosaur. Scientists also claim that Earth holds 20-30 million different species...... so far we have discovered about 4 million!

Think about that.....

http://www.texasbigfoot.org...ts/report/detail/323
Second incident:]
This incident occurred in the Sam Houston National Forest in late May 2005 at approximately midnight. A friend and I decided to go on an expedition of our own down near the east fork of San Jacinto River right off of FM 2025. We were approximately three to four miles off of the roadway down on the river in the thick of the woods. We set up and then waited to let the noise from us getting prepared die down. After about thirty minutes of silence I did the best impersonation of the Ohio howl that I could in a series of three, but got no response. We waited for a while longer and then I did it again in a series of three howls. And to our surprise, something hollered back at us that was within two hundred yards. It wasn't the same as the Ohio howl but it was a long loud deep growl, unlike a hog snorting, and it did this approximately three to four times. After it did that there was a long series of chattering noises that came from two different animals in front and behind us, but we never could see it. This went on for about one minute. My friend that was with me got instantly freaked out and jumped on his four wheeler saying, "come on, let's go, its right there!" I was able to convince him to wait and listen. We waited for approximately twenty minutes until we heard nothing but insects again. I told my friend to keep watch that I was going to try something that Daryl Colyer had told me about. So I picked up a stick about the size of a man's forearm and I hit it on a nearby tree about six times in a row then stopped. I did this three times in about a twenty minute span. After the third time, from the other side of the river we could clearly hear something that sounded just like what I was doing, banging a limb on the side of a tree and it sounded like it had some force behind it. Whatever it was, it did this about one to two minutes and quit. We waited a while and I hit the tree again as well as did imitations of the Ohio howl but never got another response. We waited a while but never heard anything but coyotes again after that. I guess it is possible for woodpeckers to be up between midnight and 2 am, however highly unlikely. I had never heard anything like the chattering we heard that night that made our hair stand up. The low deep grunt/growls were not hogs and did not sound anything like hogs. However, we never actually seen them.

Physical Evidence
We scouted this area out a few days before and I discovered three old footprints in the sand of the riverbank. I could make out the large impression easily but it was old and too indistinct to get technical with. However the area we were at very seldom sees human encroachment, but once again it is possible it was a human track. Whatever it was, it left three humanlike footprints in the sand

Sounds
Howls, chatter, growls, knocking on trees.

Time and Conditions
Midnight and 2am - [First incident:] Incident occurred at approximately midnight. The weather was clear and the night was fairly warm.

[Second incident:] The weather was clear and warm and it was approximately midnight and ended around 2am. Dense pine forest and lowland oak flats on a riverbottom.

Investigator's Comments
Daryl Colyer

This investigation was conducted as a result of incidents that allegedly occurred in San Jacinto County in April and May of 2005.

This witness and I met through an earlier report and have maintained contact ever since. He is a no-nonsense and honest police officer in Southeast Texas.

The area is one of particular interest to TBRC investigators and has been included in several research studies over the last year. The witness is one of several in the area who form a network of local eyes and ears for the TBRC.
Map data ©2008 LeadDog Consulting, Tele Atlas - Terms of UseMapSatellite

Guess whose property this is? It isn't National Forest, tho many people believed it was, up until I moved back home in mid 2006, and moved into the old farm house we have out there. But, I am getting ahead of myself. In 2005, I still lived in San Angelo, and took 2 one week long vacations/year, and I tried to have them coincide with the 2 Fiero events: Ruckus in Oct and Roundup in April. I would schedule my vacation to begin on the monday after the car show, then go on to my father's place in Cleveland for the next week, working to try to keep the place up. And, so it was in mid-April 2005. I go to the Roundup in San Antonio, then on to East Texas, to spend the next week out at the property, doing whatever needed to be done. This particular week, my twin brother came down from Ark to help me. My father had asked us to rebuild the fence along the river so he could run his horses on that part. We did-it was muddy and nasty, so we both had to wear rubber boots. Took us all week, and our size 12 footprints were even bigger after sinking into the mud with those big rubber boots on. We left Friday, these 'campers/hikers come along next weekend, and see our tracks, and hear my father's old hounds up at the farmhouse hollerin. (It's 2,203' from the river to the house where the dogs stayed-I know, I just ran a fence down it)

Now, I'm not going to say there isn't something in those woods-across the hiway from us. When Jane & I moved out there, we saw all kinds of wildlife, including a cougar that walked right out by the front yard fence-about 25 yds from where I was sitting. And, in the midst of a miserable 2006 December night, with the TV on, we were startled to hear one of the most frightening screams I have ever heard. At first, I thought someone was being murdered across the hiway, just into the woods--it sounded that close. I had hurt my back a few days before, and could hardly walk, but after about 45 minutes of this screaming, I was ready to put on my slicker, take the SKS and my big light and go see what the heck was dying over there. Jane would have none of it, and begged me to stay in the house, as we had no phone at the time, and she would not have been able to find me. Anyway, about 20 minutes later, it finally either died or moved on, because the screaming stopped.

Interesting, but I bet its to lead up to a new movie. What better way to release a Bigfoot movie? Hell they are pulling out all the stops for other movies these days!

then again they could of shot my old bass player!@$^& He was 6'5 and the next of kin of a Wookie!

I bet they shot this guy and just thought it was a bigfoot.

Living up here in the North Georgia Mountains, I can say that I've never encountered Big Foot; however, I've come across numerous example of Big Bu--s.

quote Originally posted by FIER086: I believe anything is possible and I try and keep an open mind about everything, and I have a feeling these guys found something. I mean why in the hell would they go through all of this trouble, tell us they have a body and are willing to have it looked at and DNA tested by experts. That crap is EXPENSIVE!! It seems like a long way to go for a Hoax, not to mention dragging some type of dead animal that far, if it is not Bigfoot. Did you know that the Silver back mountain gorillas of Africa and Pandas of China were not discovered by man until the late 1800s! Also the Coelacanth fish was believed to be extinct 65 million years ago, and it was found in the early 20th century, its basically a dinosaur. Scientists also claim that Earth holds 20-30 million different species...... so far we have discovered about 4 million! Think about that.....

Two things here as we think about that...

First, on the gorillas and pandas, what "man" exactly are you talking about? Certainly the Africans and Chinese had discovered Gorillas and Pandas eons ago respectively, whether or not other "men" had? Do you really belive that no human had had contact with / discovered those Gorillas or Pandas prior to the late 1800's?

Second, the Coelacanth is a poor example when discussin the bigfoot case as it is an ocean creature (and primarily deep ocean dwelling) and humans do not share their habitat. The ocean could have LOTS of crazy stuff in it we don't know about- almost any zoologist on the planet will say the same thing. Of those undiscovered millions of species you mentioned, a majority of those are assumed to be in the Oceans...

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Now, I'm not going to say there isn't something in those woods-across the hiway from us. When Jane & I moved out there, we saw all kinds of wildlife, including a cougar that walked right out by the front yard fence-about 25 yds from where I was sitting. And, in the midst of a miserable 2006 December night, with the TV on, we were startled to hear one of the most frightening screams I have ever heard.

The scream you heard was that cougar, or another cat. They let out a blood-curdling scream that sounds like a woman but MUCH louder. I heard one (a cat - never saw it) when working late one night on my Alabama property (on lookout mountain). First, it was a couple hundred yards off, & I went & got my .38. About a 1/2 hour later, it let one out about 50 ft. behind my building, & scared the piss outta' me! (well, not *literaly*) Geeze was it LOUD!

quote Originally posted by Gecko: I don't know about you, but I sure don't want a Big Foot "exposing" itself to me.

Jealousy is a curse

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: The scream you heard was that cougar, or another cat. They let out a blood-curdling scream that sounds like a woman but MUCH louder.

Nope, wasn't a cougar. I've heard them many times, and in fact, my nearest neighbor (about 1 mile across the river) has several in a pen. He is licensed by the state, and the game wardens sometimes bring big cats to him to care for, that they have either captured wandering thru housing developments or have removed from owners who mistreated them. They will later retrieve them and relocate them to an area where they will be safe and can care for themselves.

Cats in this area, usually are active on the very worst nights imaginable. Cold, rainy, stormy weather is when you will find them roaming about around here. It is really not safe to be in the woods during these nights.
In very dry times (drought, such as it was in July 2006 when that one walked by my front lawn) is an exception. They move into areas they normally would avoid--in search of water, and small game that frequent those water holes. I've seen rabbit tracks--long spaces between the tracks, intermingled with cat tracks on my powerline easement/road several times. I could place my closed fist down inside the cat track.
My sister (about 10 miles west of me) lost 2 week old calves in one night to cats, back in 2004.

The same neighbor, who has been a hunter and woodsman all his life told me of hearing something in a 2000 acre tract just across Hiway 2025 about 10 years ago while hunting late one evening. Said it rattled him so badly, he got out of his deerstand and left. I know him well, and he is absolutely honest to a fault. If he said there was something strange out there, you can bet there was in fact. Not saying it was bigfoot, but there was something there that a 50 yr old man had never heard before in his lifetime.

(After I saw the cat right out by our front yard, I tore down the barbedwire fence, and put up a 6' chainlink fence, just to give Jane a bit of sense of security, and refused to let her wander around the property at night, or un armed during the daytime, for about 6 months. Now that it is mostly cleaned up and cleared off, it is probably ok, tho we no longer reside on the property. We moved into an apt in town to take care of my father. Out on the property, the National forest was our west boundry, and it was less than 150' from our front door. The Sam Houston National Forest is not a well cared for or heavilty traversed park like you might see in magazines. It is a primordial forest, left to grow as it wants in pristine condition. Huge pines and hardwood, with thick underbrush and many many vines. Virtually impenetrable by humans. Most of my property was the same way, which is why I opted to have it logged and cleared. Since I do not hunt, it was useless to me as it was. If I want to traipse thru the woods, I just have to jump my barbed wire fence and head out into the Natl Forest. It surrounds me on 4 sides.
My property here. Image was taken in 1995. Here is same property, with annotations of what I have done with it in the last 2 yrs. Just south of my sister's place, the Nat'l Forest begins again. My property is the part entirely closed in by white lines. The blue/white area is mine-presently still wooded, but will be cleared as well next spring, when the lumber mills start taking logs again. They are all full up right now from a very successful dry summer, which has allowed loggers to get into places in this region that they haven't been able to touch in recent years. Across the river to the east is also natl forest.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 08-16-2008).]

Big Foot is actually an alien. That's why you can never find them.

quote Originally posted by FieroFanatic13: Two things here as we think about that... First, on the gorillas and pandas, what "man" exactly are you talking about? Certainly the Africans and Chinese had discovered Gorillas and Pandas eons ago respectively, whether or not other "men" had? Do you really belive that no human had had contact with / discovered those Gorillas or Pandas prior to the late 1800's? Second, the Coelacanth is a poor example when discussin the bigfoot case as it is an ocean creature (and primarily deep ocean dwelling) and humans do not share their habitat. The ocean could have LOTS of crazy stuff in it we don't know about- almost any zoologist on the planet will say the same thing. Of those undiscovered millions of species you mentioned, a majority of those are assumed to be in the Oceans...

Ah but both of your arguments can also support the side I'm arguing.

First, you are arguing that humans must surely have had contact with mountain gorillas prior to the 1800s, and you would be right. They were "legends" among the local African tribes. "Westerners" didn't believe them, saying the "mountain men" were just part of the lore. So the locals knew all about them. (Just like Native American tribes here. How many names do they have for the thing? Sasquatch? Wendigo? etc etc.)

Second, you say the Coelacanth is a poor example because we don't share their habitat. We also don't share deep forests in North America with the species that live there. What percentage of Americans visit national forests? 25%? 15%? Of those, how many stick to the roads, campsites, and trails? How many that venture into the deep woods spend more than a day or two, or go farther than a few miles? What percentage of Americans actually live in a national forest, or stay there for more than 1 or 2 nights?

Also consider this: if there really was a big foot (not saying there is), where would the sightings for such a creature occur most, and by whom? It is generally from people who are in those environments and see or hear something unexpected, as it would be.

If you've ever been to Texas, you'd see how vast the forests and "woods" are there. Caddo lake, for example, is a fortress of labyrinthine swamps, briers, water channels, and vegetation. Getting through the clearest parts of it, even in a boat, is tough. And it's nothing compared to the size of Sam Houston, Davey Crockett, or the other forests in Texas. And *those* forests don't hold a candle to what is in the Pac North West, or Alaska, or Northern California.

Another thought I just had. Would it be possible for you or me, if we had the inclination and determination, to live the rest of our lives but never let another human see us? Could you personally survive in the forests of Washington State, eating there, making clothes and some sort of crude shelter (that could be taken down quickly and look like a pile of sticks of anyone came upon it?) Would it be possible for anyone to do it? A forestry person, or military vet?

One last thought: If big foot is a great ape on par with mountain gorillas, than the chances he exists is VERY slim. If big foot is some sort of hominid like Neanderthal or Australopithecus, then the chances he exists is still slim, but less so. This would be because he has evolved over X years to fear and avoid the more successful homo sapiens, who eventually killed off all similar species, all over the globe. So any surviving hominids would have to make it their life's work to avoid any and all detection, and they would have to be smart enough to make it happen.

- Flamberge

Except for the short deer hunting season, I have never encountered a single person in the Natl Forest that surrounds my property. I occassionally see Nat'l Forest personell and their trucks along the highways, but I really don't think they go very far from the road.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 08-16-2008).]

From what I heard, the press conference went poorly. If they offered an arm or other part of the creature, or produced the body, then maybe they'd gain some credibility.

How much you wanna bet that body's going to disappear somehow?

Again, no one possessed a picture or part of a gorilla anywhere untill the 1920s. Ive been out in what I call boonies and never saw any sign of humans for miles, but never doubted they were out there. I seem to recall some scientist saying no one has ever found the carcas of a dead bear in the woods.

I dont think they meant it was a cross of DNA of a human and a possum. Only that there were traces of both on the body. They also said there was another DNA source that they couldnt identify. Human DNA could have been transferred just by them moving it, and if it was laying there in the woods a possom could have been easily snooping around it and also transfered some of its DNA to the remains. You have to look at all possibilities. Sure they could have just made it up from parts of bears and monkeys just as easily. I tend to give benefit of the doubt until proven one way or another to my satisfaction. Having seen a UFO fairly close up, I can also attest that powers that be can cover things up pretty well too.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: I seem to recall some scientist saying no one has ever found the carcas of a dead bear in the woods.

ROFL

quote Originally posted by Flamberge: Ah but both of your arguments can also support the side I'm arguing. First, you are arguing that humans must surely have had contact with mountain gorillas prior to the 1800s, and you would be right. They were "legends" among the local African tribes. "Westerners" didn't believe them, saying the "mountain men" were just part of the lore. So the locals knew all about them. (Just like Native American tribes here. How many names do they have for the thing? Sasquatch? Wendigo? etc etc.) Second, you say the Coelacanth is a poor example because we don't share their habitat. We also don't share deep forests in North America with the species that live there. What percentage of Americans visit national forests? 25%? 15%? Of those, how many stick to the roads, campsites, and trails? How many that venture into the deep woods spend more than a day or two, or go farther than a few miles? What percentage of Americans actually live in a national forest, or stay there for more than 1 or 2 nights? Also consider this: if there really was a big foot (not saying there is), where would the sightings for such a creature occur most, and by whom? It is generally from people who are in those environments and see or hear something unexpected, as it would be. If you've ever been to Texas, you'd see how vast the forests and "woods" are there. Caddo lake, for example, is a fortress of labyrinthine swamps, briers, water channels, and vegetation. Getting through the clearest parts of it, even in a boat, is tough. And it's nothing compared to the size of Sam Houston, Davey Crockett, or the other forests in Texas. And *those* forests don't hold a candle to what is in the Pac North West, or Alaska, or Northern California. Another thought I just had. Would it be possible for you or me, if we had the inclination and determination, to live the rest of our lives but never let another human see us? Could you personally survive in the forests of Washington State, eating there, making clothes and some sort of crude shelter (that could be taken down quickly and look like a pile of sticks of anyone came upon it?) Would it be possible for anyone to do it? A forestry person, or military vet? One last thought: If big foot is a great ape on par with mountain gorillas, than the chances he exists is VERY slim. If big foot is some sort of hominid like Neanderthal or Australopithecus, then the chances he exists is still slim, but less so. This would be because he has evolved over X years to fear and avoid the more successful homo sapiens, who eventually killed off all similar species, all over the globe. So any surviving hominids would have to make it their life's work to avoid any and all detection, and they would have to be smart enough to make it happen. - Flamberge

No, they don't really. You're contradicting yourself somewhat here, trying to say that they were first discovered by men in the late 1800's and now saying that my point that they indeed had been discovered by men long before is true but somehow supports your theory by making the "legend" part viable. They may have been a "locals legend" to the first westerners, but they were very real to the locals. I don't believe that a local had never come across a dead silverback or some bones, etc. That doesn't really support your argument that there could be a legendary beasty out there that humans had never had any real contact with prior to today...We have NOTHING but legends regarding "bigfoot." No bones, etc.

I don't think you got my point on the Coelacanth if you're trying to compare "the deep forests" to the Ocean Floor off Africa's coast. The point is that we are not aquatic creatures and did not have the ability to go where that fish lives except for in recent history! I don't care how "deep the forest is," it is LAND and we are land dwelling creatures. We can go where a "bigfoot" can go unless he flies too, and most likely have, so you cannot compare the deep forests to the deep ocean, period. The point is that the liklihood of crossover is good on land and almost zero in the oceon unless the fish comes up to say "hey." We share the land. We don't share the water. It's not our habitat.

Regardless, one issue nobody else it addressing here is that you need a population of these creatures to keep a species viable, and no matter how "big" Texas is, there would be a lot of these guys running around to keep them around as a species. Otherwise you'd only have dad's and daughters and moms and sons and brothers and sisters breeding and you wouldn't last long as a species. It would be difficult to hide out and have enough food to support 7 foot tall, 500 lb creatures in the parts of the world we don't see fit to inhabit.

You make good points though. But even if I accept your premise that there are certain areas of our country that are so remote and large enough for a "bigfoot" to live, hide and breed in, keep in mind that the "bigfoot" claims/sightings are not limited to some vast regions of wilderness but SPAN North America including populated areas. It's far fetched to imagine a creature this large lives from see to shining sea and that we've never caught, killed or gotten a decent picture of one.

quote Originally posted by FieroRumor: From what I heard, the press conference went poorly. If they offered an arm or other part of the creature, or produced the body, then maybe they'd gain some credibility. How much you wanna bet that body's going to disappear somehow?

Yeah, imagine that! You'd think they had enough sense to get the DNA from the blood, or bone marrow.
What do you know? COPS ARE LIERS!
Personally I'd REALLY like to see bigfoot proved real. I DO believe there are thousands of species out there we've never seen. Bigfoot, in large deep woods, is not that far-fetched. In N. Ga., I'm not so sure about....

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: What do you know? COPS ARE LIERS!

I will not post in this thread after this comment by me:

Driver - you wanted an example of how you are always starting something. Look at your quote above.

You just can't handle that you could be in the wrong when it comes to breaking / obeying the law can you?

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: ...I seem to recall some scientist saying no one has ever found the carcas of a dead bear in the woods...

If a bear died while taking a **** in the woods, would it answer the age old question?

quote Originally posted by CenTexIndy: I will not post in this thread after this comment by me: Driver - you wanted an example of how you are always starting something. Look at your quote above. You just can't handle that you could be in the wrong when it comes to breaking / obeying the law can you?

Apparently you can't handle that fact that COPS ARE LIERS, & they BREAK THE LAW!!! Do NOT start this argument in THIS thread too. STICK to the FACTS about bigfoot. Did the COPS lie or is it REAL?
Personally I'd LOVE for it to be real. Read my other posts.
Edit: If it turns out thse cops are COMMITTING A FRAUD, will you admit it?

[This message has been edited by Tha Driver (edited 08-17-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: Apparently you can't handle that fact that COPS ARE LIERS, & they BREAK THE LAW!!! Do NOT start this argument in THIS thread too. STICK to the FACTS about bigfoot. Did the COPS lie or is it REAL? Personally I'd LOVE for it to be real. Read my other posts. Edit: If it turns out thse cops are COMMITTING A FRAUD, will you admit it?

Don't know why I'm throwing a rock at this particular hornet's nest, but here we go.

Tha Driver - I'm pretty sure you are smart enough to understand that not ALL of any one group of people are ALL one way. This goes for race, creed, religion, sex, and occupation. Saying so makes you sound ignorant.

I've known 4 police officers in my life (three very well), and all four were honest people just trying to do a good job like everyone else. One of the four is one of the most upstanding individuals I've ever met, and I've witnessed him going out of his way to maintain his integrity. How do you explain those four guys?

I haven't been keeping up with your spat with CenTexIndy, so I don't know the details (and I don't really want to know) of why you feel this way. But you saying "ALL COPS ARE LIERS" (sic) is just like saying "ALL JEWS ARE *insert derogatory unfounded comment here*" or "ALL BLACKS ARE *insert derogatory unfounded comment here*" or "ALL FIERO OWNERS ARE *insert derogatory unfounded comment here*" See how stupid that sounds?

CenTexIndy - I understand your frustration. Just remember that not everyone disrespects the difficult job law enforcement officers do when no one else will. Also try to add this qualifier to the beginning of Tha Driver's every sentence. "In my opinion..."

Okay, back to bigfoot!

- Flamberge

quote Originally posted by FieroFanatic13: [b]You make good points though.

So do you. I'm out of time for responding, but I will when I get a chance. But I wanted to say you got a plus from me for this thread and a few others you've had.

- Flamberge

quote Originally posted by Flamberge: Don't know why I'm throwing a rock at this particular hornet's nest, but here we go. Tha Driver - I'm pretty sure you are smart enough to understand that not ALL of any one group of people are ALL one way. This goes for race, creed, religion, sex, and occupation. Saying so makes you sound ignorant. I've known 4 police officers in my life (three very well), and all four were honest people just trying to do a good job like everyone else. One of the four is one of the most upstanding individuals I've ever met, and I've witnessed him going out of his way to maintain his integrity. How do you explain those four guys? I haven't been keeping up with your spat with CenTexIndy, so I don't know the details (and I don't really want to know) of why you feel this way. But you saying "ALL COPS ARE LIERS" (sic) is just like saying "ALL JEWS ARE *insert derogatory unfounded comment here*" or "ALL BLACKS ARE *insert derogatory unfounded comment here*" or "ALL FIERO OWNERS ARE *insert derogatory unfounded comment here*" See how stupid that sounds? CenTexIndy - I understand your frustration. Just remember that not everyone disrespects the difficult job law enforcement officers do when no one else will. Also try to add this qualifier to the beginning of Tha Driver's every sentence. "In my opinion..." Okay, back to bigfoot! - Flamberge

# 1) I don't have a spat with CTI. He just recently said in another thread "it is VERY obvious that you just want to pick a fight.". I told hin to show me what gave him that impression. He hasn't done so (until now - if you consider this "wanting to pick a fight").
# 2) I did NOT say ALL cops are liers. Re-read the above post. It just so happens that every cop I've come into contact with recently (past 15 years) have been ***holes (and MOST of them for my ENTIRE LIFE), & are not interested in the TRUTH or JUSTICE. In fact, a cop that I used to VISIT HIS CHURCH on occasion has proven to be the SAME WAY. Of my entire life, I've seen TWO cops that seemed to be reasonable & decent people. And there's one thing I really hate: a HYPOCRITE! If you're SWORN to uphold the LAW, then by God you should be doing so! NOT BREAKING IT!
I used to have the UTMOST RESPECT for cops, but my LIFE EXPERIENCES have proven different. I'm SURE there are decent cops still out there: maybe I'll meet one some day.
BUT: you have to admit either this bigfoot body is REAL, or these cops LIED. AND are perpetrating a FRAUD. If it's real them they should be taking the PROPER actions to prove it.
I do appreciate your input. Please don't read more into my words than they are saying.

We now return you to the regularly scheduled thread about bigfoot....

[This message has been edited by Tha Driver (edited 08-18-2008).]

I just want to know if has a big foot, or little tiny feets.

Looking at the DNA result, Could it possibly be the body of George Jones?

Maybe my thought came true, of aliens arriving that are less tech advanced than us. Sasquatch are aliens, with less technology than us, who crash landed or something, all they know how to do is hunt, and hide and survive. They are basically less intellegent Wookies. Now we know what would happen if they "made thier presence known" we would all make fakes and go hunting for the aliens, and make movies like Harry and the Hendersons. As we do with other Aliens , ET.