Trying to put in a new stove today and ran across this real old valve.. Im not 100% it just turns ( i assume counter clockwise ) It doesn't look like the new ones in the big box store, and i don't want to force it and break something. Anyone know how it works? I hate to have my gas shut off at the house just to swap a stove.. ( especially in winter )

I didn't install the first stove and had a friend do it for me.

Did you try to turn it at all?
I'm pretty sure it turns one way or the other. With the "fin" turned 90 degrees to the direction of flow, it should be off.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Did you try to turn it at all? I'm pretty sure it turns one way or the other. With the "fin" turned 90 degrees to the direction of flow, it should be off.

Ya, i did but it didn't move so was afraid of forcing with a wrench it until i asked to make sure i wasn't way out in left field. My furnace and dryer have more traditional looking valves.

I can't see your pic but be careful with those gas valves. I had a neighbor who moved and thought they turned their gas line "off" to an outside BBQ grill, when they actually tuned it "on" and filled the backyard with natural gas.

quote Originally posted by User00013170: Trying to put in a new stove today and ran across this real old valve.. Im not 100% it just turns ( i assume counter clockwise ) It doesn't look like the new ones in the big box store, and i don't want to force it and break something. Anyone know how it works? I hate to have my gas shut off at the house just to swap a stove.. ( especially in winter ) I didn't install the first stove and had a friend do it for me.

You're going to have to shut off the gas *somewhere* to attach the supply line to the new stove.
There must be a main supply valve for the house somewhere if you dont trust the integrity of that valve,
BTW, that valve is already broken, (the handle), so it may have been so hard to turn that the handle broke, or it was dropped before installation...or?
Seals and packings get old and degraded just sitting for years, so if it were mine, I'd find and shut off the main supply to the house, replace the valve and connect the new stove supply line verify no leaks and sleep peacefully.

quote Originally posted by randye: You're going to have to shut off the gas *somewhere* to attach the supply line to the new stove. There must be a main supply valve for the house somewhere if you dont trust the integrity of that valve, BTW, that valve is already broken, (the handle), so it may have been so hard to turn that the handle broke, or it was dropped before installation...or? Seals and packings get old and degraded just sitting for years, so if it were mine, I'd find and shut off the main supply to the house, replace the valve and connect the new stove supply line verify no leaks and sleep peacefully.

Wrench didn't budge it ( with reasonable force ) but i did find the shut off outside on the meter and i can get to it. Time to goto lowes and get a new shut off to replace this one.

With luck i can get the pilot back on the furnace and water heater afterwards

Oh, i did get a new flexible supply line already..


So if i don't post for a few days it went terribly wrong

[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 11-16-2008).]

quote Originally posted by User00013170: Wrench didn't budge it ( with reasonable force ) but i did find the shut off outside on the meter and i can get to it. Time to goto lowes and get a new shut off to replace this one. With luck i can get the pilot back on the furnace and water heater afterwards Oh, i did get a new flexible supply line already..

Sounds like a good idea. My water heater you have to light manually but the furnace and dryer have an electronic ignition. Just sayin' read the directions..might save you some time.

quote Originally posted by randye: ...BTW, that valve is already broken, (the handle), so it may have been so hard to turn that the handle broke...

You're right. It IS broken. I didn't notice that before.

You could always try to loosen it by heating it with a torch.

JUST KIDDING!

Replace it. Definitely.

quote Originally posted by sostock: Sounds like a good idea. My water heater you have to light manually but the furnace and dryer have an electronic ignition. Just sayin' read the directions..might save you some time.

Furnace and water heater are still manually lit pilots. ( ya, they need to be upgraded to something more modern and efficient but my money tree out back is only producing leaves.. )

quote Originally posted by User00013170: Furnace and water heater are still manually lit pilots. ( ya, they need to be upgraded to something more modern and efficient but my money tree out back is only producing leaves.. )

lol, Yeah I got a defective money tree too. When I get my income tax money next year I have to replace my ac unit. I wish somebody would have told me that responsibility is expensive.

quote Originally posted by sostock: I wish somebody would have told me that responsibility is expensive.

You didn't learn that by 13? That explains a lot!

That line likely needs more repairs than that valve. The copper probably has to go as well. The stress of removing the old valve is probably going to work other joints in the iron near it. You have to test all joints for leaks and if you've messed with the valve, test that NOW. Just use soapy water.

Those old valves often didn't have rotational limits. Plenty will spin all the way around. The handle 90* to either side is closed. Or it should be if the valve is actually sealing.

If you insist on DIY for this...

Gas pipe must NEVER be installed with Teflon tape. You must use a gas rated pipe sealant. Don't remove sealant that oozes from the joint. (I never quite saw the point but inspectors often won't pass it if they don't see the sealer. It could be nothing more than an easy visual that you used the correct type.)

Galvanized pipe is also not legal most places. Has to be the black stuff.

In many places you may also need an inspection of the install to be legal. If you run it w/o the inspection they can shut you off w/o warning and fine you.

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top of every forum page...)

quote Originally posted by theogre: That line likely needs more repairs than that valve. The copper probably has to go as well. The stress of removing the old valve is probably going to work other joints in the iron near it. You have to test all joints for leaks and if you've messed with the valve, test that NOW. Just use soapy water. Those old valves often didn't have rotational limits. Plenty will spin all the way around. The handle 90* to either side is closed. Or it should be if the valve is actually sealing. If you insist on DIY for this... Gas pipe must NEVER be installed with Teflon tape. You must use a gas rated pipe sealant. Don't remove sealant that oozes from the joint. (I never quite saw the point but inspectors often won't pass it if they don't see the sealer. It could be nothing more than an easy visual that you used the correct type.) Galvanized pipe is also not legal most places. Has to be the black stuff. In many places you may also need an inspection of the install to be legal. If you run it w/o the inspection they can shut you off w/o warning and fine you.

It looks like brass to me , not copper. Donno if the same rules apply ( but i know id be grandfathered in, just had my meter replaced and the gas dude said that it would fly unless i had major work done )

Just installing a new valve wouldn't require an inspection.

Hmm. Teflon tape is what they sold me at the hardware store when i got the replacement flexi line.. ? Ill goto a mom/pop shop and get the goo you speak of.

[This message has been edited by User00013170 (edited 11-16-2008).]

Like sensors for cars... Teflon tape can keep the pipe from maintaining a solid electrical connection from end to end. Gas movement can cause static electric to build up on the pipe. If something else dumps static on the pipe same problem. The static gets to the crappy connection and causes a spark. Never a good thing with a gas pipe.

Apparently it doesn't seal all that well with gas either. (It's not recommended for allot of kinds of gas from what I've seen.) So if you've got a leak, even a really slow one, and a spark... You might not get an explosion but you could still set a fire pretty easy.

When you change that valve... You need all the other valves you have closed as well. Not just the main. Check each valve for leaks after messing with it. You should also kill power to the furnace at either the emergency switch (If it has one) or the breaker/fuse panel. If you aren't absolutely sure how to relight each device, get someone that is.

That valve is of the conical design. The broken handle is afixed to a cone shaped "plugt" that has a rectangular opening in it. The body of the valve is bored to accept the cone plug, and both are 'lapped' during the manufactoring process to ensure a tight fit. It seats by way of metal to metal contact, with downward pressure usually applied by a spring in the bottom of the assy. When you turn the handle 90 degress, it moves the rectangular opening off to the side, presenting a closed face to the opening in the body. Yes, when it is operating condition, it is probably possible to just keep rotating the handle 360 degrees. IF (& I don't recomend you do so) you wanted to save it, you would remove the plug in the bottom of the body, where you will probably find a screw and spring . Remove them, then using a soft non sparking hammer, knock the plug out thru the top.

Spend a few bucks for a modern gas valve and you will be good to go--assuming you replace the oxidized copper tubing with a current make of flex line.

And, as usual, The Ogre is correct. Since your oven/range probably has at least one elctric light and switch in it, it is essential that the gas line NOT have any inhibitance to current flow. It is your line that provides a ground for any spark that may occur, unless your local code has some sort of addendum that allows you to directly ground your gas appliance elsewhere, but I believe state and national codes take precedence.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 11-18-2008).]

quote Originally posted by theogre: Like sensors for cars... Teflon tape can keep the pipe from maintaining a solid electrical connection from end to end. Gas movement can cause static electric to build up on the pipe. If something else dumps static on the pipe same problem. The static gets to the crappy connection and causes a spark. Never a good thing with a gas pipe. Apparently it doesn't seal all that well with gas either. (It's not recommended for allot of kinds of gas from what I've seen.) So if you've got a leak, even a really slow one, and a spark... You might not get an explosion but you could still set a fire pretty easy. When you change that valve... You need all the other valves you have closed as well. Not just the main. Check each valve for leaks after messing with it. You should also kill power to the furnace at either the emergency switch (If it has one) or the breaker/fuse panel. If you aren't absolutely sure how to relight each device, get someone that is.

Didnt make it down last night to get the 'goo' and a new valve. Il be sure to shut off the others as well. When the meter was replaced last month the guy did check the house for leaks, so i should be safe on the other 2 devices.

I know how to relight the furnance and water heater, its just the furnance sometimes is a bear to keep going. ( i think its an old thermocouple thing )

The guy that tested for leaks probably did not work any valves etc. Once you move them, there is a chance they could leak. So retest them anyway. It only takes a couple minutes.

As noted, the valves are a taper seat plug kept under tension. On old valves whatever is keeping the tension can weaken or fail. When the valve moves, it may refuse to seal completely again. You always want to check for leaks. They don't fail terribly often but you don't want to take any chances.

Is that Brass on the left? I don't believe that is legal or safe but I have no way to check. I've always been taught not to do that. If it was mine, I'd get rid of it since you are taking the valve off anyway. Cheap Insurance.

Either way... I would make sure you have an extra black iron elbow and a couple short nipples in case the brass fitting breaks while you mess with the valve.

My guess is the brass goes to another short nipple in the wall that goes to another elbow. If you unscrew the brass, it could come out of the wall joint. It doesn't look like you've got room to use a wrench to prevent it. Careful use of a flashlight may let you see what is in the wall w/o opening up a big hole. It was probably done later to get the valve etc to let the stove closer to the wall. (My stove right now sits out from the wall because of how the pipe lines up. Quite annoying.)

You can see how excess sealer is left on the pipe nipple. You're new work should look about the same when you are done.

quote Originally posted by theogre: The guy that tested for leaks probably did not work any valves etc. Once you move them, there is a chance they could leak. So retest them anyway. It only takes a couple minutes. As noted, the valves are a taper seat plug kept under tension. On old valves whatever is keeping the tension can weaken or fail. When the valve moves, it may refuse to seal completely again. You always want to check for leaks. They don't fail terribly often but you don't want to take any chances. Is that Brass on the left? I don't believe that is legal or safe but I have no way to check. I've always been taught not to do that. If it was mine, I'd get rid of it since you are taking the valve off anyway. Cheap Insurance. Either way... I would make sure you have an extra black iron elbow and a couple short nipples in case the brass fitting breaks while you mess with the valve. My guess is the brass goes to another short nipple in the wall that goes to another elbow. If you unscrew the brass, it could come out of the wall joint. It doesn't look like you've got room to use a wrench to prevent it. Careful use of a flashlight may let you see what is in the wall w/o opening up a big hole. It was probably done later to get the valve etc to let the stove closer to the wall. (My stove right now sits out from the wall because of how the pipe lines up. Quite annoying.) You can see how excess sealer is left on the pipe nipple. You're new work should look about the same when you are done.

On the left is the flexitube that goes to the stove, its getting replaced anyway, new one is in a box out in the garage. I was thinking of getting a detector from harbor freight anyway, it works with AC gas leaks too

Wow... I thought the copper line on the right went to the stove... What the heck is supporting the valve?

Evidently nothing. Nurb--how long is the copper tubing on the right--from where it comes out of the wall to the valve?