Worth repeating, if only the crybabies would read it.
We read it--it's not relevant regarding today's activities. TEA parties stand for Taxed Enough Already. It's a protest against the taxes it will take to pay down the huge deficit. Doesn't matter whether the member of congress voting for the stimulous and bailout was Rep or Dem.
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09:20 PM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Government should run the country not control the country.
There's no difference between the verbs run and control used in that context. A government needs to "control" (run) the country. That's what laws are for. Otherwise you have anarchy.
Every ship needs a captain, and rules governing the crew and proper operation of the vessel. Even a pirate ship has a captain and implicit rules. The captain may say "do what you want", but if you punch him in the face you'll get shot.
There's no difference between the verbs run and control used in that context. A government needs to "control" (run) the country. That's what laws are for. Otherwise you have anarchy.
Every ship needs a captain, and rules governing the crew and proper operation of the vessel. Even a pirate ship has a captain and implicit rules. The captain may say "do what you want", but if you punch him in the face you'll get shot.
Sure there is a difference. You don't want to see it. That would conflict with your world view. Its cool.
And the capt of the good ship America is the people.
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10:26 PM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Sure there is a difference. You don't want to see it. That would conflict with your world view. Its cool.
And the capt of the good ship America is the people.
Maybe, once upon a time, the people captained the ship. Those days are long gone. Corporations now are at the helm and the GPS is set to follow the money trail.
Who got the bailout? Corporations or the people? Who authorized the bailout? Corporations (indirectly through lobbyists, etc) or the people? Who was the biggest benefactor to the invasion of Iraq? Don't dare say "we the people!" The private sector got to build missiles, planes, ships. A company I do business with kept pretty busy building guidance systems for northrop grumman. I didn't even get cheaper gas out of the deal.
"We the people" have been reduced to "we the ocean". But the captain won't take notice of anything less than a tsunami.
Maybe, once upon a time, the people captained the ship. Those days are long gone. Corporations now are at the helm and the GPS is set to follow the money trail.
Who got the bailout? Corporations or the people? Who authorized the bailout? Corporations (indirectly through lobbyists, etc) or the people? Who was the biggest benefactor to the invasion of Iraq? Don't dare say "we the people!" The private sector got to build missiles, planes, ships. A company I do business with kept pretty busy building guidance systems for northrop grumman. I didn't even get cheaper gas out of the deal.
"We the people" have been reduced to "we the ocean". But the captain won't take notice of anything less than a tsunami.
Thats why the people are protesting.......
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11:14 PM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
If you want to protest, stop paying your taxes or punch a bald eagle. Both will get the government's attention in a hurry.
No what you did was whine about corporations. People like me went out and protested. If you want to be dishonest about what it was that's cool. People like you need to do that so they don't have to face reality. You can lie to your self all day but don't think other wont see that you are trying to to the rest of world. Tools like you cry and do nothing about it then try to dismiss those who have more balls then you do and actually put in the effort to more then just gripe. Its weak willed people like you that are the reason we have a federal government that has over stepped its bounds. You make for a sad and pathetic American. Since you won't do anything to stop it you deserve it. I bet you wont mind weaseling your way in to the prosperity after the work is done by others to correct the wrongs.
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11:33 PM
Apr 16th, 2009
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
No what you did was whine about corporations. People like me went out and protested. If you want to be dishonest about what it was that's cool. People like you need to do that so they don't have to face reality. You can lie to your self all day but don't think other wont see that you are trying to to the rest of world. Tools like you cry and do nothing about it then try to dismiss those who have more balls then you do and actually put in the effort to more then just gripe. Its weak willed people like you that are the reason we have a federal government that has over stepped its bounds. You make for a sad and pathetic American. Since you won't do anything to stop it you deserve it. I bet you wont mind weaseling your way in to the prosperity after the work is done by others to correct the wrongs.
Nice ad hominem. For a while I had forgotten why I unchecked politics. It seems as though people can't discuss the merits of an argument without calling each other names. "That's cool."
Nice ad hominem. For a while I had forgotten why I unchecked politics. It seems as though people can't discuss the merits of an argument without calling each other names. "That's cool."
Money talks. Bullsh** walks [the protest line].
Either you are too lazy, too weak, too cowardly or you don't mind whats going on in the country. But you keep whining and talking crap about people who are actually trying to do something while you piss and moan some. You simply don't have what it takes. You call it bullshit. I call you bullshit. I call you coward. I call you lazy and complacent. Sure you will cry like a little punk but when it come to actually putting in effort you wont do it. You give up before even trying. Thats what a lazy coward does. You keep telling your self those comfortable lies. I don't expect people like you to want to face reality or put any effort into standing up for your self or the country. I do expect you to coming to reap the rewards of those who will try hard.
Maybe you should go back to ignoring the political threads. I wouldn't want you call people names then whine about being called names your self.
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12:36 AM
Wichita Member
Posts: 20688 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
And it's funny how the left claims CNN is unbiased...
Just curious, but does the Democratic party own shares in CNN? If not, why are their reporters so eager to shill for Barry, everyone's favorite fascist messiah?
[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 04-16-2009).]
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01:20 AM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
What? You're surprised? CNN and the major media were Obama's shill since day one! Need proof? What business does that CNN reporter have lecturing and confronting that protester? She is there to report, not lecture. Geez. They don't even PRETEND to be unbiased anymore.
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03:37 AM
hklvette Member
Posts: 1439 From: Roanoke, VA Registered: Nov 2007
And it's funny how the left claims CNN is unbiased...
*snip*
Just curious, but does the Democratic party own shares in CNN? If not, why are their reporters so eager to shill for Barry, everyone's favorite fascist messiah?
that makes me very mad.... Asked a question only to cut off his answer... Great "reporting" CNN!
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08:50 AM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 24617 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
I disagree that liberals vote on selfish issues - I don't think that's the case at all. Indeed, my parent's voted for Obama even though they make well over what will be taxed. I applaud Obama for lowering the taxes on those of us with the least disposable income. We are the people that go out and buy flat screen TV's and hamburgers by the millions and millions - we need more disposable income! Really, I feel as though I pay my fair share of taxes. I don't feel as though I should have to pay into Social Security for you old people (and I don't since I'm an exempt employee), but my federal taxes are around 5%, which isn't horrible considering they're used to build the interstates that I drive on and the military that keeps the Canadians from invading. I can't complain. Ideally I wouldn't pay any taxes - but I don't want to drive on dirt roads or speak Canadian, eh.
But, insofar as I know, the US has some of the lowest taxes in the world, particularaly on business and I am unsure (as in, I can't affirmatively say) that Obama has suggested any new taxes on companies. His proposal would increase the taxes on the top wage earners to levels that are still lower than what they were under Ronald Reagen.
I think you're missing the point. We're not protesting his "tax cuts". Which, by the way, his tax cuts don't take effect until next year. This year's taxes were under the Bush tax cut plan.
The point of the tax day tea parties are to protest the taxes that WILL BE coming soon, due to the massive printing of money which has in turn tripled our debt. Do you under stand this? We're not complaining about the fact that we HAVE to pay taxes, or that we have a Democrat in the White House, we're protesting the taxes that will HAVE to result from excessive government spending. We just tripled our national debt in a matter of three months. I realize you probably don't understand the ramifactions these pose on the US and the global community, but we stand to lose the dollar as the global currency which immediately knocks us off the totem pole as the most powerful country in the world. The most economically powerful country in the world, automatically becomes the worlds most militarily powerful country in the world.
As far as social security... I totally agree, I don't think you should have to be paying into Social Security because you won't get back what you put into it. That's absolutely certain. As for my age... I'm 31, (just turned 31 April 10th) so I don't think I fit into the "You old people" category.
We don't have the lowest taxes on business, by the way. There are many more countries that have lower business taxes. As a matter of fact, the only countries that have higher business taxes than the US is Western Europe. That's why there are dozens of plants in Mexico, Thailand, India, Singapore, China, etc...
Oh, I need to add also that the reason why you are only paying 5% income tax is because you are a "DEPENDANT" to your parents. If you are living under their roof, your father / mother are likely claiming you as a dependant. Realistically, the average household that makes ~60,000 total income pays about 16% tax. The average household that makes about 75,000 pays about 18% income tax. The average household which makes a little over 100,000 pays around 21% income tax (also depends on the number of W2s you have). You fall under specific tax brackets, but depending on your deductions, etc, you end up with those percentages on average.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: The point of the tax day tea parties are to protest the taxes that WILL BE coming soon, due to the massive printing of money which has in turn tripled our debt. Do you under stand this? We're not complaining about the fact that we HAVE to pay taxes, or that we have a Democrat in the White House, we're protesting the taxes that will HAVE to result from excessive government spending. We just tripled our national debt in a matter of three months. I realize you probably don't understand the ramifactions these pose on the US and the global community, but we stand to lose the dollar as the global currency which immediately knocks us off the totem pole as the most powerful country in the world. The most economically powerful country in the world, automatically becomes the worlds most militarily powerful country in the world.
Quite right. Also the MISS-USE of the dollars they are printing and spending today.
That depends how long you live after reaching retirement age or going on SS disability if that's the case. It is fairly common for many to recieve much more than they contributed. You should be getting a SS eligiblility and earnings statement, which will tell you how much you have contributed each year, how much you can draw/mo at age 62, 65 etc. Multiply that X 12, estimate how long you think you might live after retirement begins and you can figure out if you will draw more than you contributed. Some of course, never draw any or die right after retirement, but a surviving spouse/heir can also draw from your contributions.
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09:37 AM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 24617 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
That depends how long you live after reaching retirement age or going on SS disability if that's the case. It is fairly common for many to recieve much more than they contributed. You should be getting a SS eligiblility and earnings statement, which will tell you how much you have contributed each year, how much you can draw/mo at age 62, 65 etc. Multiply that X 12, estimate how long you think you might live after retirement begins and you can figure out if you will draw more than you contributed. Some of course, never draw any or die right after retirement, but a surviving spouse/heir can also draw from your contributions.
Yeah, I get them every year. It says I would be eligeble for something like ~$1,700 a month if I was to retire today (at age 67), I'm only 31 right now, so I've got a LONG friggin way to go. They don't mean squat... especially since Obama is planning on putting a 5-year cap on social security (IE: not increasing the payout, so that Social Security payments aren't inflation protected for 5 years). I really don't believe that I'm going to be getting any social security by the time I'm 67. I think I'll probably get something... but it won't be much... definitely not something you can live on... and really, that was never the point of social security, but for many people it's grown into a "retirement plan" for them (which is ridiculous). That's why I actually support making it privatized (if you want)... that was the original plan anyway when it was passed by FDR.
that makes me very mad.... Asked a question only to cut off his answer... Great "reporting" CNN!
HORRIBLE "reporting" but not because she cut him off. In fairness, he WAS wandering and not making a point and you could tell she was trying to get a sound bite about TAXES.
Yet listen to a couple OTHER things she did:
Don't you know the land of Lincoln will be getting 50 BILLION dollars? That is what she asked him. Like that is supposed to appease the crowd. Doesn't she know that for that 50 billion dollars they will wind up paying 75 to 100 BILLION in taxes, after interest payments on it? (and probably MORE than that). And again, that THEY will wind up paying for it. But with these people, it's always like you are GETTING something.
Well, no wonder people fall for it. People like Neptune and Jeremiah, it IS like they are getting something for it. Neptune only pays a couple hundred bucks per year to be in the club. Jeremiah only pays 5% and no social security. I pay more per year in social security than he does in income tax. (and so do ANY of you that pay social security). Mooches. AND SHAMELESS mooches. Jeremiah doesn't think he should even have to pay 5% income tax. Well, my question, then, is WHO SHOULD be paying it? Because Bush, to his shame, added medicare drug coverage as a giveaway. The people getting the drugs aren't covering the entire or even most of the cost. WHO IS? Now these Obama fans are all for his ideas on bail outs, plus he wants nationalized health care and all the other "crises" they MUST act now on. Well, your 5% of your income isn't going to come CLOSE to paying for it.
Second thing she did--she tried to portray the people as some sort of angry mob. Like they were out of control and so throw it back to you. Goodness. How deceptive and how pathetic.
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10:09 AM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
Second thing she did--she tried to portray the people as some sort of angry mob. Like they were out of control and so throw it back to you. Goodness. How deceptive and how pathetic.
That, and actions like Homeland Security deciding that anyone to the right of Nancy Pelosi is a domestic terrorist...the left is trying to bury the right completely, totally and for good. If you're anywhere on the right, watch out. They're coming for you.
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10:53 AM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Yeah, I get them every year. It says I would be eligeble for something like ~$1,700 a month if I was to retire today (at age 67), I'm only 31 right now, so I've got a LONG friggin way to go. They don't mean squat... especially since Obama is planning on putting a 5-year cap on social security (IE: not increasing the payout, so that Social Security payments aren't inflation protected for 5 years). I really don't believe that I'm going to be getting any social security by the time I'm 67. I think I'll probably get something... but it won't be much... definitely not something you can live on... and really, that was never the point of social security, but for many people it's grown into a "retirement plan" for them (which is ridiculous). That's why I actually support making it privatized (if you want)... that was the original plan anyway when it was passed by FDR.
A friend of mine just got his SS cut by $37/month. Before he had $5/month left over after paying the necessities, now he is $30 in the hole. Is this the income redistribution BO was talking about?
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11:10 AM
frontal lobe Member
Posts: 9042 From: brookfield,wisconsin Registered: Dec 1999
A friend of mine just got his SS cut by $37/month. Before he had $5/month left over after paying the necessities, now he is $30 in the hole. Is this the income redistribution BO was talking about?
Yeah, but less people are going to be paying taxes this year! Obama just announced that again yesterday.
Well, at least his amount that is now $37/month won't go as far due to the theft of purchasing power by printing up another trillion of meaningless, valueless dollars. Oops. That isn't going to help, either.
But, really, you know what you should tell your friend?
QUIT WHINING. Your side lost. Smile and eat your s*** sandwich.
Now that isn't how I feel personally. I'm against what is happening to person. I'm just passing on the message I have received from certain forum members.
Yeah, but less people are going to be paying taxes this year! Obama just announced that again yesterday.
Well, at least his amount that is now $37/month won't go as far due to the theft of purchasing power by printing up another trillion of meaningless, valueless dollars. Oops. That isn't going to help, either.
But, really, you know what you should tell your friend?
QUIT WHINING. Your side lost. Smile and eat your s*** sandwich.
Now that isn't how I feel personally. I'm against what is happening to person. I'm just passing on the message I have received from certain forum members.
I think I have figured out the plan. Spend like drunken sailors which will create massive inflation and higher taxes to pay for the spending. This will create more poverty. Then promise a $13/week tax cut, not to raise income taxes on the middle class, even thought they have raised taxes everywhere else. Once they get the masses so poor that a $13 tax cut will buy their vote, the power is yours forever.
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12:46 PM
kwagner Member
Posts: 4258 From: Pittsburgh, PA Registered: Apr 2005
You pay " a few hundred dollars" each year. Really? You get the same membership benefits I get and I had to pay over SIXTY THOUSAND dollars.
I gross less than half of what you pay in taxes a year. Why should I care about how much you pay? Two reasons: 1) I care about more than just myself, and 2) I don't plan on always making this amount of money. One thing people seem to forget in the "rich get richer while the poor get poorer" talk is that we live in a country where people can go from poor to rich, as has been demonstrated many times. Sure, it's not easy, but shouldn't they be rewarded for their efforts? What's my incentive with the current tax structure, which will only get worse as less people pay taxes? Why am I being penalized for trying to succeed, and people are being rewarded for doing nothing?
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01:00 PM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
I take on risks personally. If I fail then I will be in the poor house. If I succeed, I keep what I make.
Philosophy #2
I want and require help to succeed from the government. If I fail, the government will catch me. If I succeed, my success is reduced and spread around.
Our politicians, both Democrats and Republicans, are subscribing to the 2nd philosophy. They are propping up failing companies. They erecting more than just safety nets for the average person, we are talking about generation after generation living on the public dole. Democrats whole heartedly embrace philosophy #2. Republicans have been incorporating it into too much of what they do. They may not even realize how much they have been coopted.
Philosophy #2 will lead to a socialistic government. Philosophy #1 is what the US was built upon. We need a new revolution to return back to the individualism that founding this great nation. Otherwise we are doomed to the same slow death that Europe is exeriencing right now. Their native populations don't have enough babies to maintain their population. As each generation following gets smaller, the socialistic system slowly collapses as the working and tax paying population shrinks. The only way to keep the system going is through immigration. The immigrants that Europe is importing are Islamic fundamentalists that have no interrest in integrating into their country. In fact they plan to take over and impose Sharia law. This leads to fighting in the streets and ultimately we will see the European powers lose control of their own countries if they don't change the path they are on.
Personally, the (state and federal) government walks off with $1 for every $3 I actually see on payday. Then when W2 time rolls around, they want a few hundred more. Yes, the government makes 1/3 of what I make... When I'm lucky enough to get away with working a straight 8 hour day, I'm spending 2 hours of it working for the government. And for what ? So they can focus all their energy on digging us taxpayers FARTHER into debt ? For all the effort they put into selling our country to China ? To maintain a decent lifestyle for the able-bodied slackers milking a 'disability' or 'welfare' check (as if laziness is a disability) ? To help bear the burden of those poor unfortunate souls who chose to run themselves a mile into debt buying houses, having kids, or choosing to spend their incomes in other ways that are tax deductible ? Congrats on your friggin tax breaks. Now either stop using the government's services, or start ponying up and paying your own damn share for them.
When you add in all the state, local, sales taxes, gas taxes, entertainment tax, inheritance tax, occupation tax, school tax, property tax, and every other kind of tax, those of us who actually do pay taxes pay closer to 40%. Big deal if BO wants to let me keep a couple more of my dollars now when Its going to cost me so much more later on. This massive spending will result in inflation and interest rate increases. This will affect those of us who pay our bills. Freeloaders will just default on the payments and probably get some government incentive to do even less and become more of a burden on society. I think the first Boston tea party was over a 3% tax. Those colonists are spinning in their graves. The reason all this taxation hasn't caused another revolution is our country has become a nation with more parasites than producers. As fewer people pay taxes then the rest will have to make up the loss and pay more. When most of the population pays nothing or very little then it means nothing to them what the rest have to pay. They get the free ride at someone elses expense. Every working tax paying American should be able to claim at least one bum as a dependant.
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10:54 PM
PFF
System Bot
D B Cooper Member
Posts: 3141 From: East Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2005
The original tea party was largely a result of taxation without representation... This year's tea parties have been in large part a result of representation without taxation.
The one thing I can agree with the President on is the statement that 'everybody should have skin in the game'. Unfortunately it means something completely different to me than it does to him. To me it means everyone should have at least some roll to play in financing our government if they're going to participate in it (vote). To him it means everyone who pulls their own weight needs to be prepared to pull someone else's weight also.
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11:52 PM
Apr 17th, 2009
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Originally posted by Phranc: I call you bullshit. I call you coward. I call you lazy and complacent.
Call me whatever you want. It's not in my interest to care about your thoughts of me.
quote
Originally posted by Phranc: Sure you will cry like a little punk but when it come to actually putting in effort you wont do it. You give up before even trying. Thats what a lazy coward does. You keep telling your self those comfortable lies. I don't expect people like you to want to face reality or put any effort into standing up for your self or the country.
You know nothing about me or causes I've fought for. If you don't believe in the government wasting your money, why the hell are you still paying them? Are you a coward? You keep telling your self those comfortable lies [about government protests actually accomplishing anything]. I don't expect people like you to want to face reality or put any effort into standing up for your self or the country.
You know nothing about me or causes I've fought for. If you don't believe in the government wasting your money, why the hell are you still paying them? Are you a coward? You keep telling your self those comfortable lies [about government protests actually accomplishing anything]. I don't expect people like you to want to face reality or put any effort into standing up for your self or the country.
I pay for the same reason every other honest person pays. That might be hard for you to understand. See honest and law abiding people don't break the laws they don't like they change them. Protests do work. Either you don't know history or you want to ignore it. You gave up with out even trying. You are a lazy coward according to your own words. Maybe you can live with your self as a person who whines but does nothing because it might not work despite a history of it working but I can't. It must take some serious self delusion to be a whiner and then call protesters nothing but whiners when they do more then you. I know enough about you that you aren't man enough to stand up for whats right because you are a lazy coward who thinks its to much work and it might not work. As an American you have relegated your self to uselessness. But don't worry you aren't alone in your surrendering. All those socialist leeches are right there with you. They, like you, don't want to put in the effort. Why should they when some one else will do it for them. And all the while they will talk down about the people who try. Just like you do.
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12:41 AM
ryan.hess Member
Posts: 20784 From: Orlando, FL Registered: Dec 2002
Originally posted by Phranc: See honest and law abiding people don't break the laws they don't like they change them. Protests do work. Either you don't know history or you want to ignore it.
Yeah, I'm sure the Boston Tea Party would have still been written in the history books if the colonists stood around holding signs like law abiding citizens.
Yeah, I'm sure the Boston Tea Party would have still been written in the history books if the colonists stood around holding signs like law abiding citizens.
Yeah because that was the only protest. What is it like to go through life being so dishonest with your self you ignore things like the protests for racial civil rights and womens suffrage? Go back to sucking your thumb in the corner because you a coward who quit before ever trying. Keep telling yourself those nice little lies that it won't work so you can be lazy.
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07:51 AM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
I agree with those who say as a protest - this was weak but - what it DOES show is the organazational potentiol for a REAL protest. gotta walk before you can run. also - gotta remember - most of these folk are used to being on the other side of this stuff. and, will they actually "put out" when it comes time to do it "for real"?
I agree with those who say as a protest - this was weak but - what it DOES show is the organazational potentiol for a REAL protest. gotta walk before you can run. also - gotta remember - most of these folk are used to being on the other side of this stuff. and, will they actually "put out" when it comes time to do it "for real"?
VIncent David Jerico (local talk radio guy) said the other day that the TEA parties were not really a protest, but more of a practice, he went through telling how many of the people that were at the TEA parties had never been to anything before, had never stood up before and voiced their opinion (at a public forum). After a few TEA parties, they get stronger, and stronger, until they finally stand by themselves, and that is when we have an "Army" that the Government fears.
Brad
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10:50 AM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Yeah, I'm sure the Boston Tea Party would have still been written in the history books if the colonists stood around holding signs like law abiding citizens.
So what's your point, Ryan? Or protest was valueless? Should we have broken some laws to get attention?
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11:51 AM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Smile and eat your s*** sandwich. 
