not factual - but often seems it: freedom of religion - as long as it is Roman Catholic and a Womans right to make dinner & clean house. as far as facts - these are raw stereotypes, generalizations & speculation, and argueing them is pointless. and when people drag this kind of junk up - it does seem they have run out of actual issues, and just want to bash.
Roman catholic? Wow that's a minority of the GOP there. What about the protestants and baptists? You know the christian sects that make up most of the GOP and the nation. I guess they are against the woman's right to vote too.
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03:53 PM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Originally posted by fierobear: Well, you see, folks like rayb have a simple mode of operation - demonize the ones you disagree with, marginalize them, and you can easily dismiss them. Compare Republicans/conservativews/"neo-cons" to Hitler and the Nazis, and you automatically win since Hitler and the Nazis are universally agreed to be animals. Make the argument right versus left, black and white, and get a simple soundbite answer. See how it works?
yes, throwing out blanket "liberal" junk is nothing like that
this is the wedge which is ripping this nation into easily managed & devoured chunks. lets get in the middle, drive this nation back to the top - then we can get back to our differences. it is a known fact "you cant please everyone" it is a known fact "everyone is different" but, at least all this bickering has really calmed down the racism, eh?
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03:55 PM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Originally posted by Phranc: Roman catholic? Wow that's a minority of the GOP there. What about the protestants and baptists? You know the christian sects that make up most of the GOP and the nation. I guess they are against the woman's right to vote too.
bah - yes - how's about just plain old chistians.....again - I was spouting junk - and that was in the post
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03:56 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
except where it comes to drinking the GOP's coolaid there you seem to follow the party line without a care for facts try applying a little skeptic thinking to the party's old outmoded ideas
------------------ Question wonder and be wierd are you kind?
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05:01 PM
OKflyboy Member
Posts: 6607 From: Not too far from Mexico Registered: Nov 2004
Originally posted by ray b: except where it comes to drinking the GOP's coolaid there you seem to follow the party line without a care for facts try applying a little skeptic thinking to the party's old outmoded ideas
Quoted for Irony...
------------------ "The flag should be displayed with the union down, as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property."
Read my Earthship thread in Totally O/T si vis pacem, para bellum
"The said constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." - Samuel Adams
What part of "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" is so hard to understand?!
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05:04 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
except where it comes to drinking the GOP's coolaid there you seem to follow the party line without a care for facts try applying a little skeptic thinking to the party's old outmoded ideas
rayb, I find your statement incredibly ironic. Daily, often multiple times a day, I post articles with proof of my point of view. A recent video explains the various forms of government, and how they fall into the political spectrum. Saying that the GOP = Nazis is simply wrong.
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05:24 PM
OKflyboy Member
Posts: 6607 From: Not too far from Mexico Registered: Nov 2004
rayb, I find your statement incredibly ironic. Daily, often multiple times a day, I post articles with proof of my point of view. A recent video explains the various forms of government, and how they fall into the political spectrum. Saying that the GOP = Nazis is simply wrong.
Wow, I found it ironic simply that he would accuse anyone else of drinking Koolaid...
[This message has been edited by OKflyboy (edited 05-15-2009).]
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05:27 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
so, while we are here: how's about the Taliban? socialist or capitalist? we already know they are "right", not left
How are the Taliban "right"?
The Taliban, so long as you agree with Shirah law, is 100% socialist. They are all about creating a one-ness and a community, so long as you are the correct sect of the Islamic religion.
I really don't think we can think of them as one in the same. Certainly, they are very pro-religion. And there ARE a lot of religious people on the right, but that's basically where the similarities end. The Taliban "Shirah Law" goes 100% against everything that a Conservative Republican believs in when it comes to freedom. In Shirah law, there is no freedom of speech, etc...
quote
Originally posted by Pyrthian:
it depends on the Nazi's you are talking about. The political party - what there maybe of it - or the large group of gangs, which are basicly the Bald KKK White Supremists. Because - the party is left - the gangs are right. They are NOT the same thing. the party does NOT hail Hitler - the Gangs do - which makes it even more confusing.
Oh man, not this again. I had someone tell me in another post somewhere on this board that the "new" NAZI party members are caring people and they are just misunderstood. The NAZI's ARE Hitler. Anything that is NAZI exists because of Hitler, and Hitler's views ARE the views of the NAZI party / military / government. There were a few people who opposed this, and obviously they were killed by Hitler's SS troops... so... we go back to square one... everything that is NAZI is Hitler.
I don't know why we're talking about it in the "today's" sense... those punk kids who were harassing those old concentration camp victims don't belong to the NAZI party any more than I do. As a "party" they don't exist anymore. Those people who define themselves as NAZIs are misguided people with internal hatred, and "look" to the NAZI German past because of it's impressive propogandist campaign. Hitler is dead, the NAZI army is gone, the NAZI party is gone... these are just some punk kids. They are about as "real" as the Bloods or Crytps gangs... it's just a bunch of dumb punks that haven't figured out what they want to do in life yet...
quote
Originally posted by ray b:
birds of a feather flock together nazi ideas anti-commie anti-homosexual anti abortion anti-atheist anti-liberal anti-free thinking pro military pro nationalist pro capital punishment pro police and police state actions
any neo-conn's who really doNOT support any of the above ideas?????????????
sure killing jews is currently out of favor but where are the other big differences yes hitler LIED about being a socialist and many many other things but actually did very very few real socialist acts
Man, you have absolutely NO idea what you're talking about.
Hitler's early speeches, all had to do with "coming together", equality, yadda yadda....
It's all outlined in Mein Kampf. You really have NO clue at all what you're talking about. Hitler's entire premise was building a "pure" Germany, where everyone was strong, and everyone was equal, and eliminating everyone from their country who wasn't of the aryan lineage. I certainly think he was sick in the head, but that's what it is as much as the sky is blue. Maybe you have never watched a Formula-1 race? Back in the early 00s... when Michael Schumacher used to win all the F1 races... they would play the German anthem... "Germany, Germany, above all else..." (Hitler was the one that comissioned that song to be written).
I don't know how you can see he wasn't socialist / communist. After he usurped control of Germany, it turned FROM socialism into communism. Hitler was a dictator, are you not aware of that? I mean... seriously... you do realize that, right??? maybe I'm misunderstanding you??
Anyway, Volkswagen, all the public projects, everything... that's all socialism. No one was paid to do that, it was all done under "German commaderie..."
Man, I'm sorry, you really aren't very knowledgeable when it comes to this stuff..
Anyway, more direct, you say:
quote
Originally posted by ray b:nazi ideas anti-commie anti-homosexual anti abortion anti-atheist anti-liberal anti-free thinking pro military pro nationalist pro capital punishment pro police and police state actions
Hitler was VERY Pro-Abortion (after immediate birth), if the baby being born was either mentally or physically disabled, or Jewish, they were 100% NOT anti-athiest... as a matter of fact, 1/5th of all the people that died were Christian. Hitler was 100% against any hard-core religions... he despised Catholosism, Jeudaism, and anything else that was similar to that. He was also VERY communist... where on earth do you get anti-commie?
Do you just make stuff up and hope that people don't know any better??? If you actually think you're right on ANYTHING you've said, then I think either you need to bow out of the conversation, or take some history classes...???
Hitler was VERY Pro-Abortion (after immediate birth), if the baby being born was either mentally or physically disabled, or Jewish, they were 100% NOT anti-athiest... as a matter of fact, 1/5th of all the people that died were Christian. Hitler was 100% against any hard-core religions... he despised Catholosism, Jeudaism, and anything else that was similar to that. He was also VERY communist... where on earth do you get anti-commie?
Do you just make stuff up and hope that people don't know any better??? If you actually think you're right on ANYTHING you've said, then I think either you need to bow out of the conversation, or take some history classes...???
Damn....
so much so WRONG
why listen to or quote any politico's words THEY LIE ALL THE TIME they say one thing and do another I follow what they DO not what they SAY
written in 1841 , Das Deutschlandlied did not become the official national anthem until declared so by President Ebert of the Weimar Republic in March, 1922. thats years before hitler to power and no he didnot write it or cause it to be the national song
hitler hated and fought with the reds both before and after he came to power but did very few real socialist acts the few corps they grab were owned by jews or foes most german CORP were owned by the stockholders NOT the GOVERNMENT
they sent atheists to the camps along with the jews you had to be christian and prove it to join the party or SS
dammm you self and learn the facts before posting BS here
------------------ Question wonder and be wierd are you kind?
why listen to or quote any politico's words THEY LIE ALL THE TIME they say one thing and do another I follow what they DO not what they SAY
Then you agree that Hitler was a socialist since under him the nazis implement a socialist agenda and socialist programmes. Doesn't mater if you go by his words or his actions the out come list leftist socialism.
Christians went to the camps too.
I'd quote Hitler about why they didn't nationalize the industries but you aren't going to accept that since Hitler lied about it.
NEOconned BuSh2 BIG LIE !!!!!!!!
[This message has been edited by Phranc (edited 05-15-2009).]
the christian socialists , the social democrat party went to the camps along with the reds athiests and jews the rightest nazi's put all the leftests in the camps or killed them outright
if hitler DIDNOT nationalize the CORPs he was NOT a socialist as national ownership of industry is what socialist means
[This message has been edited by ray b (edited 05-15-2009).]
I believe he may have meant to say *eugenics*, which was indeed a program under the NASDP regime. Other than that minor point, he has things just about right in his assessment.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 05-15-2009).]
the christian socialists , the social democrat party went to the camps along with the reds athiests and jews the rightest nazi's put all the leftests in the camps or killed them outright
if hitler DIDNOT nationalize the CORPs he was NOT a socialist as national ownership of industry is what socialist means
Hitler didn't need to nationalize the industries because he nationalized the people. He even said so him self. But that had to be a lie. The nazi were leftists just look at the platform. They imprisoned christians that posed a threat be they left or right. There is more to socialism then just nationalizing industry.
Facts and intellectual honesty. Things you don't have much of.
BuSh2 NeOcOnNeD BIG LIE !!!!!!!
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12:18 AM
Patrick Member
Posts: 37674 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
To equate euthanizing new-born babies with being “Pro-Abortion” is outrageous and ridiculous.
Seems to me someone couldn't resist the urge to take a pot shot at the pro-choice movement.
Not too much of a stretch really. I would bet everything I own that "IF" Hitler had modern day science such as gene markers to work with, he would have been aborting children "left and right" (pun gleefully left in!)
Pot shot? sure, but there is that ole just like Hitler thang again. Doesn't make it any less true though. I will also add that I don't think the abortion issue isn't really cut down party lines as much as people think. Once again, it is the extremists on both sides of the isle that get really excited over this. Greed, irresponsibility and taking the easy way out is not limited to one political ideology.
[This message has been edited by Red88FF (edited 05-16-2009).]
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10:14 AM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: How are the Taliban "right"?
The Taliban, so long as you agree with Shirah law, is 100% socialist. They are all about creating a one-ness and a community, so long as you are the correct sect of the Islamic religion.
right = conservative - Shirah Law is conservative right / left has NOTHING to do with socialism - it has to do with conservative or progressive.
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I don't know why we're talking about it in the "today's" sense... those punk kids who were harassing those old concentration camp victims don't belong to the NAZI party any more than I do. As a "party" they don't exist anymore. Those people who define themselves as NAZIs are misguided people with internal hatred, and "look" to the NAZI German past because of it's impressive propogandist campaign. Hitler is dead, the NAZI army is gone, the NAZI party is gone... these are just some punk kids. They are about as "real" as the Bloods or Crytps gangs... it's just a bunch of dumb punks that haven't figured out what they want to do in life yet...
exactly what I am saying. this all started because someone complained about these guys being called right wing extremeists - when Nazi of the 1930's were left wing socialists. gangs/thugs/punks are "right" - if you must put them in one of the 2 slots - it is the slot on the right. gangs/punks/thugs follow the oldest hiarchy known to man: male domination thru force. EVERY concept for order beyond that, at one time, was a left wing concept.
gangs/thugs/punks are "right" - if you must put them in one of the 2 slots - it is the slot on the right. gangs/punks/thugs follow the oldest hiarchy known to man: male domination thru force. EVERY concept for order beyond that, at one time, was a left wing concept.
WHERE do you get these ideas? The apparent ease with which you seem to meld social anthropology and modern political science says more about an *agenda* on your part,... or a stunning lack of comprehension. Or both.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 05-16-2009).]
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12:37 PM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Originally posted by randye: WHERE do you get these ideas? The apparent ease with which you seem to meld social anthropology and modern political science says more about an *agenda* on your part,... or a stunning lack of comprehension. Or both.
where do I get these ideas? - easy - just sit, and look. and not with a narrow eye which only sees what I want to see.
lol - well, what do you think "left" & "right" are? because I think the lack of comprehension is in the definitions. left = progressive, right = conservative that is it. left does NOT mean socilialism. yes, in the USA today, a person who is calling for socialism would be on the left - only because socialism would be a change from the existing strutcture. if the nation was currently socialist - and someone was calling for capitalism - they would be left. left calls for change - right calls for keeping as is. that is all. and - yes - what is the original structure of order for man? every change along the way has been a "left" idea. yes, once established, in place, and working - it now becomes a right idea to preserve it - or a left idea to change it.
but, I fully understand how these different terms get mixed up. being people love to much them together as if the mean the same thing. they dont. thats why we have different words for the different aspects. and, it also helps to look at history, and hows things come to be. some change is good. some is not. but, we have changed things consistantly thru history. yes, many still long for the days of male supremacy & domination thru strength. humans didnt suddenly evolve into having elections - he made up our minds to do so. and that was a EXTREME left wing idea. not having a leader based on his ability to dole out the smackdown? WTF were we thinking? social anthropology....political science science.....call it what you will - the structure of organizing & controlling people. also see "religion".
and - yes - the agenda is: stop the partisan BS, get the people back together, and take our nation back from the maniacs. I am right up the middle, shooting in both directions.
right = regressive or to look backwards left = progressive or to look forwards
the nazi's had many backward looking ideas
every post war neo-nazi movement is right wing every semi-nazi [partys made of former nazi or fascist members] is right wing
want to debate those facts ????????????????
many right wing people were in the nazi party in the 30's groups like the military and the leadership of the big CORP tend to the right and in germany in the 30's they were the core of hitlers support and cash hitler purged the leftwing of the nazi party in 1934 killing many left leaning members so what was left ?? center to right wing nazi's???? please tell me what the heck is a center nazi hitler killed the leftest nazis that leaves the rightwing nazi's in control
the only people who doNOT class the nazi's as right wing are the neo-conned as that is a modern spin device so the neo-conned can feel better
------------------ Question wonder and be wierd are you kind?
right = regressive or to look backwards left = progressive or to look forwards
the nazi's had many backward looking ideas
every post war neo-nazi movement is right wing every semi-nazi [partys made of former nazi or fascist members] is right wing
want to debate those facts ????????????????
many right wing people were in the nazi party in the 30's groups like the military and the leadership of the big CORP tend to the right and in germany in the 30's they were the core of hitlers support and cash hitler purged the leftwing of the nazi party in 1934 killing many left leaning members so what was left ?? center to right wing nazi's???? please tell me what the heck is a center nazi hitler killed the leftest nazis that leaves the rightwing nazi's in control
the only people who doNOT class the nazi's as right wing are the neo-conned as that is a modern spin device so the neo-conned can feel better
I'm just curious.. How far do you have to bend over to pull this kind of stuff out of your ass?
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 05-16-2009).]
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03:12 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
many snide comments from the right but no facts is spin spin spin all you guys got well if my dogma was tied to the nazi's I guess I would handwave like mad and spin too
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03:54 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 37674 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
many snide comments from the right but no facts is spin spin spin all you guys got well if my dogma was tied to the nazi's I guess I would handwave like mad and spin too
many snide comments from the right but no facts is spin spin spin all you guys got well if my dogma was tied to the nazi's I guess I would handwave like mad and spin too
Allow me to elucidate for you Rayb. The complete gobbeldygook you made of geopolitical history, replete with your whipping in a good bit of socio-economic nonsense, makes more than apparent your lack of education or even a passing knowledge of political science or even history. You speak of "right wing" and "left wing" in terms absolute, and yet garbled beyond belief. Do you even know that there are other theories of political spectra? Have you ever heard of Hans Slomp's chart of European politics? Have you ever heard of Nolan's spectrum? Have ever heard of the Political Compass theory?
(Hurry..Google is your friend.....)
Back during the elections I told you that you were out of your league when it came to political debate. That hasn't changed. While you are certainly entitled to your "opinions" no matter how bereft of foundation, I would encourage you to avoid speaking in absolutes and claiming "fact", especially when you clearly know not whereof you speak.
right = regressive or to look backwards left = progressive or to look forwards
the nazi's had many backward looking ideas
every post war neo-nazi movement is right wing every semi-nazi [partys made of former nazi or fascist members] is right wing
want to debate those facts ????????????????
many right wing people were in the nazi party in the 30's groups like the military and the leadership of the big CORP tend to the right and in germany in the 30's they were the core of hitlers support and cash hitler purged the leftwing of the nazi party in 1934 killing many left leaning members so what was left ?? center to right wing nazi's???? please tell me what the heck is a center nazi hitler killed the leftest nazis that leaves the rightwing nazi's in control
the only people who doNOT class the nazi's as right wing are the neo-conned as that is a modern spin device so the neo-conned can feel better
Hitler was a leftist. Why didn't he kill him self? He didn't purge the left wing because he was the left wing.
Right is not regressive it is small government. Left is big government. Since you can't get that correct its no wonder you are wrong on everything else.
What exactly makes post war nazi right? They still run on the same socialist big government platform.
can you read and follow you own links????? hans's lists authoritartian as conservative
and right as conservative
so he places fascism at the max of both authoritartian and right both listed as conservative so a fascist is a conservative in hans slomps chart !!!!!!! what is your point again?????????????????????????
------------------ Question wonder and be wierd are you kind?
can you read and follow you own links????? hans's lists authoritartian as conservative
and right as conservative
so he places fascism at the max of both authoritartian and right both listed as conservative so a fascist is a conservative in hans slomps chart !!!!!!! what is your point again?????????????????????????
can you read and follow you own links????? hans's lists authoritartian as conservative
and right as conservative
so he places fascism at the max of both authoritartian and right both listed as conservative so a fascist is a conservative in hans slomps chart !!!!!!! what is your point again?????????????????????????
