Originally posted by PK: Still a tad confused as to if this thread is indeed "OFFICIAL" in any way?
well, offically confusing maybe next time, definitions & eras will be provided
but, it was just a quest for the extremists to play hot potatoe with Hitler. but, I do think it has been mostly agreed Hitler & The Nazi's of 1930's were in fact LEFT. and, just to add balance for the cry babies on the left - we got the Taliban & Al-Queda stacked up on the RIGHT. I'm sure "the right" doesnt like having them in their company - but - there they are. Doesnt get more conservative than Burkas, eh? Shiara Law? and, for added fun - They're all Religious Extremists.
Let's see a direct quote. If there's any truth to it I'm surprised you don't worship the guy.
You just HATE Canada, don't you? Every freakin' chance you get you've got something nasty to say about this country or the people in it. For cryst sakes, even in a thread about Nazis of all things you feel the need to slam a true Canadian icon.
What's keeping you here? Why don't you (please!) go live in another country (if it's so bad here) and then you can b!tch and whine endlessly about that place.
Touched a nerve there, eh Patrick? I forgot you were a dipper supporter and the Tommy comment probabaly hit a little close to home. The reason I brought up Tommy Douglas, a self proclaimed socialist and "left winger", is to show the common ideology behind his parties belief in eugenics and what Hitler, another socialist, was trying to do in Germany. The were both trying to rid the world of what they believed to be subhumans, through forced population control. Of course, it probably upsets you to find out that this so called hero and pioneer of the New Democratic party was largely endorsed by the KKK, and that his campaign manager was in fact a KKK Grand Wizzard. You probably also didn't know that the KKK even gave ol' Tommy a brand new Studabaker Terraplane. You probably also didn't know that this socialist maven who you call a hero openly defended his peers Hitler and Mussolini in parliamentry debate, and that while he was in the peak of this eugenics studies he even made a trip to Nazi Germany to study Hitler's ongoing experiments. You want to understand the sick mind of the founder of the NDP, read his thesis, and feel free to google any of the aformentioned items made mention of above.
The Western Standard also had a good article on the dark side of the New Democratic Party founder as well. I do stand corrected on the calling for extermination of the aboriginals comment, the western standard article indicates that despite these allegations being made, herr Tommy never directly singled out the aboriginals for sterilization.
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The dark side of medicare's champion John Robson, The Western Standard Published: Tuesday, July 11, 2006
The greatest Canadian of all time said we should sterilize mental defectives. Wait. Before you report me to your province's human rights commission for attempting to glorify some neo-Nazi bigot, you should know this: We're talking about Tommy Douglas. The Tommy Douglas. The socialist icon. The father of our vaunted medicare system. The man recently voted the Greatest Canadian of all time by CBC viewers. His 1933 master's thesis in sociology -- The Problems of the Subnormal Family -- staunchly advocated eugenics in the most merciless terms. And almost nobody dares mention anything about it.
That Tommy Douglas holds a venerated place in Canadian mythology is beyond dispute. He's not just a hero to left-wing nationalists or CBC viewers. When the Reform party created a portrait gallery of "bridge builders" in their caucus room in 1996, Douglas was there. What's especially disquieting about his flirtation with eugenics is that -- as with Max and Monique Nemni's recent book detailing Pierre Trudeau's youthful anti-Semitism, reactionary clerico-political views and blindness to Nazi aggression -- these are not things that were actively hidden from Canadians. It's just that we chose to ignore them.
The Wikipedia online encyclopedia entry tells us Douglas "is warmly remembered for his folksy wit and oratory with which he expressed his steadfast idealism, exemplified by his fable of Mouseland .... In 2004, he was voted 'The Greatest Canadian' of all time in a nationally televised contest organized by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation." Then the entry states baldly that he "completed his Master's degree (MA) in Sociology from McMaster University in 1933. His thesis was on eugenics as a solution for Canada's economic problems."
One cannot simply dismiss these views as youthful folly; when Douglas wrote them, he was nearly 30 years old.
From the point of view of the modern left, much is -- or should be -- profoundly troubling in Douglas's thesis. He flings about terms like "subnormal," "defective" and "moron" and condemns unwed motherhood in harshly judgmental terms. He speaks of women "guilty" of abortion and grouses about tax money as well as morals, noting that one "mental defective" let out of an asylum "lived as a prostitute" and produced two "mentally defective" children who were also institutionalized. His conclusion: "The initial cost to the taxpayer has been tripled in this case."
And far from sympathizing with what we're now meant to call "sex-trade workers" -- whom we should view as exploited women -- Douglas denounces prostitutes for "accosting" men from "fairly good homes" and giving them venereal diseases.
Douglas's attitudes and vocabulary are troubling. But it is his recommendations that are most alarming. First, he advocates compulsory certificates of "mental and physical fitness" and seven days' public notice before marrying. He goes on to say that since "Society does not hesitate to segregate criminals, lepers or any others that threaten the well-being of society," it should put defectives "on a state farm, or in a colony where decisions could be made for them by a competent supervisor." He discusses segregating the sexes within such colonies, but says it "would be very difficult to enforce, and would be an unnatural mode of life. It should only be tried if the next suggestion were rejected, namely sterilization."
Thus we come to Douglas's most appalling proposal: "Sterilization of the mentally and physically defective." To meet anticipated criticism, he adds: "medical science declares that it is possible to be sterilized and yet have sexual intercourse. In the main, this is all the defective asks."
He concedes "that sterilization might be abused ... There are possibilities of abuse in any forward step ... The matter would have to be handled carefully. Only those mentally defective and those incurably diseased should be sterilized." The subnormal, he suggests, should simply be discreetly given "contraceptive knowledge ... when the family had reached a set figure." Douglas never defines the difference between a "defective" and someone who's merely "subnormal." (He also advocates special classes for subnormal children rather than what is now called "mainstreaming.")
If all these views do not cause advocates of political correctness to blanch, the Baptist minister also sees a large role for Christian churches in helping subnormal types to imitate conventional middle-class life, to "have teas," "form clubs" and "learn the useful art of housekeeping."
He adds that "When education and legislation have failed, there is still One, who can take the broken earthenware from life's garbage heaps and make them vessels of honor in His temple of love."
Contrary to occasional allegations, Douglas's 38-page master's thesis actually makes no reference to race, direct or indirect. It is almost important to note that, while Douglas never seems formally to have repudiated the views expressed in it, he does seem to have abandoned them. Thomas H. and Ian McLeod's valuable 1987 biography, Tommy Douglas: The Road to Jerusalem, notes that he repeated these ideas once, publicly, in a 1934 article for the Research Review, a journal put out by the Saskatchewan Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (CCF). But after becoming Saskatchewan premier in 1944 (while the Nazis were implementing their own mass eugenics program in Europe), Douglas rejected proposals for eugenic sterilization legislation of the sort his progressive colleagues in the United Farmers of Alberta had passed in 1928. Professor emeritus Meyer Brownstone of the University of Toronto adds that, while in power, Douglas worked hard to improve conditions in Saskatchewan mental asylums.
Moreover, while in 1934 Douglas was expressing conventional pacifist views, in 1936 -- as the Nazis were working toward purifying the German race through "racial hygiene" laws and the forced sterilization of those deemed physically and mentally "unfit," culminating in forced euthanasia programs and ultimately the death camps -- Douglas paid a personal and apparently eye-opening visit to Nazi Germany. He returned calling Hitler a "mad dog." In 1938, Douglas denounced the Munich Pact, telling Parliament that "Yielding to dictators does not buy peace; it merely brings about demands for further concessions."
While CCF founder and party leader J. S. Woodsworth was the man who cast the sole vote against war with Hitler in 1939, Douglas not only helped bring his party around to supporting the declaration of war, but volunteered for active service. The same childhood leg problem that famously made him a public health-care advocate probably kept him from being sent with the Winnipeg Grenadiers to face death in the fall of Hong Kong or slow torment and probable death as a POW. Instead, Douglas returned to Parliament and helped Mackenzie King's government escape its anti-conscription pledge.
Arguably, one could oppose Hitler's military aggression and still be a bigot. But Douglas's horror at the militarized apparatus of repression that he witnessed in Germany might have had something to do with his reconsideration of the idea of interning "defectives" in camps, where coercive eugenic medical procedures were performed.
What is peculiar is that this part of Douglas's life should have disappeared entirely from the official Canadian narrative. The CBC biographical film aired in March, Prairie Giant: The Tommy Douglas Story, which admits at the outset that "characters, locations and events have been composited, condensed or fictionalized for dramatic purposes" -- and which the CBC pulled in June because it had treated Douglas's political rival James Gardiner unfairly -- omits any reference to the nature of his graduate studies. And the Canadian Encyclopedia's online entry takes us from Douglas's "further academic studies in Christian ethics" straight to his respectable political activism.
Tim Woods, executive director of Vancouver's health care-oriented Tommy Douglas Institute, says simply "that's not a master's dissertation I've read." Nor does the institute's Web site profile of Douglas's "achievements and his beliefs" mention it. Mel Watkins, professor emeritus of economics and political science at the University of Toronto and co-founder of the federal NDP's renegade "Waffle" faction, says he's aware of Douglas's dissertation, but doesn't know enough about it to discuss it in detail. Still, Watkins argues that eugenics "was very much in the air at the time, which doesn't excuse Douglas, but does explain. [It] goes to sentencing, as one of my lawyer friends likes to say."
Fair enough. But why, then, was there no trial?
Possibly because Douglas was not actually the greatest Canadian ever. Actor Michael Therriault, who played him in Prairie Giant, admitted to a reporter in March that he'd never heard of Douglas before auditioning for the film. "Most of my friends didn't know who he was either," he said. Standard historical texts, such as Kenneth McNaught's 1982 revised The Pelican History of Canada, mention Douglas only briefly. McNaught gives him three index entries; Desmond Morton's 2001 revised Short History of Canada, just five. And socialized medicine is not working as well as the CBC hagiography implies, not least because, as Douglas himself admitted in 1982, he and his colleagues got rid of market pricing, but never got around to figuring out how to make central planning work -- not exactly a minor oversight.
But such considerations are beside the point; before anointing T. C. Douglas a secular saint, Canadians might have at least been thorough enough to let the devil's advocate mention eugenics. Instead, The Problems of the Subnormal Family went down the memory hole and didn't come back up. The McLeods' favourable biography deals with it frankly, and references to it crop up here and there on the Internet -- but you won't even find the actual text online. And McMaster University library has, all these years, been sitting on Tommy Douglas's own handwritten notes about the subjects of his dissertation. Were such a personal artifact to emerge about the intellectual development of truly important American historical figures -- say, Abraham Lincoln or George Washington -- it would attract enormous attention, even if it was in some ways embarrassing.
Since Canadian nationalists reproach Americans for their tendency to uncritically mythologize their past, shouldn't we be willing to examine our own a bit more closely? Americans know -- and mention often -- that Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner, and historians have publicly aired suspicions that his slave Sally Hemings was also his concubine. Why can't we discuss Douglas's blunder?
Maybe it's because, in the words of George Stroumboulopoulos, Douglas's "advocate" in the CBC's Greatest Canadian contest: "This is what it all boils down to -- the 49th parallel. It's the dividing line between our way and their way. And did you know that on that side every 30 seconds somebody declares bankruptcy because of medical bills? What I'm saying is, Americans go broke because of being sick. I just can't tell you how glad I am that we don't live that way. It's all thanks to Tommy." A morality play this simple has no place for subtle shading of character or historical cause and effect.
Douglas is famous for such bons mots as, "The trouble with socialists is that they let their bleeding hearts go to their bloody heads," and "The left in Canada is more gauche than sinister." Even his flirtation with eugenics was mostly gauche, especially when we remember that it took place just before the horrors of Nazism, an ideology against which he was literally willing to take up arms. What seems truly sinister is the silence that now reigns on this imperfection in a revered national figure.
- A longer version of this story appeared in the July 3 edition of The Western Standard. www.westernstandard.ca
Crazy to think this guy was voted "Greatest Canadian"
[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 05-19-2009).]
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11:50 AM
May 20th, 2009
Patrick Member
Posts: 37674 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
I do stand corrected on the calling for extermination of the aboriginals comment, the western standard article indicates that despite these allegations being made, herr Tommy never directly singled out the aboriginals for sterilization.
As if the rantings of this defunct right-wing rag weren’t enough, you felt you had to embellish their smear campaign with fabricated defamatory remarks of your own. Sad.
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Originally posted by loafer87gt:
Touched a nerve there, eh Patrick?
Yes, but nothing we haven’t discussed before.
I’m proud of the country you and I live in, and it irks me to see a fellow Canadian constantly trying to make it sound like some hell-hole when nothing could be further from the truth.
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12:44 AM
DRA Member
Posts: 4543 From: Martinez, Ga, USA Registered: Oct 1999
If this thread has accomplished one thing, I hope it has been to remove some clutter from other threads! LOL
Please, next time the debate pops up in another thread, please direct the debate to this thread.
OFFICIAL Nazi Party, Left Wing or Right Wing Thread! https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum6/HTML/065379.html ------------------ Dealing with failure is easy: work hard to improve. Success is also easy to handle: you've solved the wrong problem, work hard to improve.
[This message has been edited by DRA (edited 05-20-2009).]
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12:52 AM
Patrick Member
Posts: 37674 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
I'll be watching you............ actually............. we have been for some time now......... but yeah............ I'll be watching you.
You might already be on double secret probation and not know it!
------------------ Dealing with failure is easy: work hard to improve. Success is also easy to handle: you've solved the wrong problem, work hard to improve.
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01:05 AM
Patrick Member
Posts: 37674 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
It is hilarious how you choose to dance around issues, Patrick. Are you saying that the Western Standard and all other historical documents which detail your boy Tommy's shady past are fabricated? Instead of addressing any of him and his socialist NDP party policies, which I made mention of because of their similarity to Hitler and his Nazi's, you instead focus on the one remark that I erroringly made regarding his treatment of aboriginals. I'm going to take a wild guess and assume you didn't take the time to actually read through his thesis paper on eugenics, because if you did, even you should be bright enough to draw a parrallel between the socialists in Canada and Hitler's socialists in Germany. Both these LEFT WING groups in their desire to "advance" humanity called for the removal of certain groups that they deemed undesireable. In Hitler's case it was the jews, in the Douglas' case, it was the mentally deficient and those with other disorders he considered abnormal.
You know, for all your bitching about "left wing / right wing" branding your are one of the prime culprits for throwing around the "right wing" tag on any source that doesn't agree with your narrow opinion. You know, there are other sources out there than the Communist Broadcasting Corporation.
[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 05-20-2009).]
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01:51 AM
Patrick Member
Posts: 37674 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
You know, for all your bitching about "left wing / right wing" branding your are one of the prime culprits for throwing around the "right wing" tag on any source that doesn't agree with your narrow opinion.
Are you suggesting the Western Standardwasn't a right-wing publication?
Seems to me that no one, including the publisher, made any great secret of that fact.
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Originally posted by loafer87gt:
You know, there are other sources out there than the Communist Broadcasting Corporation.
Patric ignores facts yet again. Instead of disproving them he attacks where the facts were reported. Notice he didn't attack the actual historical records only the people who dared to report on them. Typical Patric dishonesty. That's what he does best.
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11:13 AM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Patric ignores facts yet again. Instead of disproving them he attacks where the facts were reported. Notice he didn't attack the actual historical records only the people who dared to report on them. Typical Patric dishonesty. That's what he does best.
No comment on Patrick specifically, but this is a typical tactic of someone when the facts aren't on their side, or they cannot prove their point with facts. Can't answer for the facts? Attack the person, source of information, and so on. Ad homenim.
No comment on Patrick specifically, but this is a typical tactic of someone when the facts aren't on their side, or they cannot prove their point with facts. Can't answer for the facts? Attack the person, source of information, and so on. Ad homenim.
Like when Al Gore refuses debates and calls any one who disagrees with his global warming scam 'flat earthers'.
No comment on Patrick specifically, but this is a typical tactic of someone when the facts aren't on their side, or they cannot prove their point with facts. Can't answer for the facts? Attack the person, source of information, and so on. Ad homenim.
yes I do see alot of that from the rightwing in this thread esp nazi are thought to be leftests by the rightwing people here and no amount of charts or data will move them off that idea so they spin spin spin
5 pages and not one chart posted places the nazi's on the left 3 charts all do put them on the right but they are discounted by the neo-conn's and I am told I am hung up on charts and should believe a politico speachs not his actions or the history books are all wrong
sorry but facts doNOT support your spin the charts and history books support my position you guys are WRONG hitler nazi's and fascists are rightwing not left
------------------ Question wonder and be wierd are you kind?
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11:59 AM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
yes I do see alot of that from the rightwing in this thread esp nazi are thought to be leftests by the rightwing people here and no amount of charts or data will move them off that idea so they spin spin spin
5 pages and not one chart posted places the nazi's on the left 3 charts all do put them on the right but they are discounted by the neo-conn's and I am told I am hung up on charts and should believe a politico speachs not his actions or the history books are all wrong
sorry but facts doNOT support your spin the charts and history books support my position you guys are WRONG hitler nazi's and fascists are rightwing not left
Spin...you mean like finding a chart that agrees with you? Oh, ok, THAT spin. I understand.
Spin...you mean like finding a chart that agrees with you? Oh, ok, THAT spin. I understand.
so find a chart that places the nazi's on the left side but I bet you can't find even one I have three that put the nazi's on the right two first posted by the rightwing side plus ever school history book I have seen
all you got is spin and handwaving btw blogs donot count real history books do esp ones actually used in major school districts
------------------ Question wonder and be wierd are you kind?
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01:19 PM
Wichita Member
Posts: 20686 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
so find a chart that places the nazi's on the left side but I bet you can't find even one I have three that put the nazi's on the right two first posted by the rightwing side plus ever school history book I have seen
all you got is spin and handwaving btw blogs donot count real history books do esp ones actually used in major school districts
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04:41 PM
GT86 Member
Posts: 5203 From: Glendale, AZ Registered: Mar 2003
so find a chart that places the nazi's on the left side but I bet you can't find even one I have three that put the nazi's on the right two first posted by the rightwing side plus ever school history book I have seen
all you got is spin and handwaving btw blogs donot count real history books do esp ones actually used in major school districts
Instead of a glib little chart, how about actually looking at ideologies and comparing them to actions undertaken by the Third Reich? Or does that require too much effort for you? Quite a few people have tried to point out the fallacies in your position, yet all you do is keep calling people names and referring back to your precious charts.
Randye had it right, you are a simpleton.
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06:49 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
so find a chart that places the nazi's on the left side but I bet you can't find even one I have three that put the nazi's on the right two first posted by the rightwing side plus ever school history book I have seen
all you got is spin and handwaving btw blogs donot count real history books do esp ones actually used in major school districts
I posted that video that explains how different types of government work. The ONLY thing that matters is how much CONTROL a government exerts over its people. Are you more free or more under government control?
Left = more government control. See the Obama administration and current Congress
Right = less government control. See Ronald Reagan.
[This message has been edited by fierobear (edited 05-20-2009).]
Instead of a glib little chart, how about actually looking at ideologies and comparing them to actions undertaken by the Third Reich? Or does that require too much effort for you? Quite a few people have tried to point out the fallacies in your position, yet all you do is keep calling people names and referring back to your precious charts.
Randye had it right, you are a simpleton.
simplly correct is what I am with all the so far posted real charts and history books on my side nuts spin and handwaving on yours
------------------ Question wonder and be wierd are you kind?
I posted that video that explains how different types of government work. The ONLY thing that matters is how much CONTROL a government exerts over its people. Are you more free or more under government control?
Left = more government control. See the Obama administration and current Congress
Right = less government control. See Ronald Reagan.
note no BuSh2 in your less government and less control list maybe because BuSh2 was the poster boy for more control and the closest to a nazi I hope we ever see in this country
------------------ Question wonder and be wierd are you kind?
note no BuSh2 in your less government and less control list maybe because BuSh2 was the poster boy for more control and the closest to a nazi I hope we ever see in this country
I posted that video that explains how different types of government work. The ONLY thing that matters is how much CONTROL a government exerts over its people. Are you more free or more under government control?
Left = more government control. See the Obama administration and current Congress
Right = less government control. See Ronald Reagan.
You're attempting to teach quantum physics on the "short bus". They're just going to gaze at the pretty pictures in the book and drool on the covers. You're wasting your time.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 05-20-2009).]
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08:30 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
You're attempting to teach quantum physics on the "short bus". They're just going to gaze at the pretty pictures in the book and drool on the covers. You're wasting you time.
You're right. If there was any doubt, rayb removed it with his last post to me...
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note no BuSh2 in your less government and less control list maybe because BuSh2 was the poster boy for more control and the closest to a nazi I hope we ever see in this country
spying on citizens gitmo and waterboarding invading countrys who didnot attack us signing statements [ie he is above the law] raiding medical pot clinics non relief of storm struck New Orleans cronies put in places of power and alot more
------------------ Question wonder and be wierd are you kind?
You must mean the wire taps that were tapping out of country phones that went through US servers. The same programme that Obama voted on to expand and is now having his legal teams defend in court. That would make Obama just as bad if not worse.
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gitmo and waterboarding
I'm guessing you are equating gitmo with concentration camps. That premise is so dishonest I'm not even sure where to start.
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invading countrys who didnot attack us
You might mean Iraq but that wouldn't be the case since after the cease fire agreement Iraq routinely fired on US patrols over the no fly zone. The US had every right to attack back. A little fact lost on people like you. So that's not even close to the nazis.
So because the state and local government failed their duties that makes Bush like nazi.
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cronies put in places of power
Well then that would make Clinton and Obama just like Bush and the nazi then.
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and alot more
A lot more what ray? There aren't even close to applicable comparisons above. You are so dishonest its pathetic. ...comment edited wasn't fair to retarded people....
[This message has been edited by Phranc (edited 05-20-2009).]
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11:04 PM
Wichita Member
Posts: 20686 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
Originally posted by ray b: the original caveman is BLOG I said no blogs and a far rightwing one tooo try to find a real chart not one made by a rightwing nut
But the Horseshoe Diagram that you and Patrick tout as the definitive political spectrum map is also from a blog. So it's ok for you to use?
But whatever. Everybody is going to use their own arbitrary map. The left are Nazi's in my book, because of their affinity towards dictatorial socialism, which is exactly how the Nazi's conducted themselves.
I know you would love Obama to be President for Life. You would love for Conservatives, Libertarians and Republicans to be shot and hanged. You would love to nationalize all large corporations. You would love to have the government feed, cloth and house you without you working or earning a cent. Hell, you would even go so far as have the government chew your food and spit it down your beak. You're a parasite. All leftist are sheeped up parasites.
The different between me and you is that I don't wish no ill will towards any of the leftist out there. You just need to be defeated politically. And I understand it's an uphill battle for people like me, because although we are few, we are the only ones that are making this country work and run and the lazy, the idle, the parasites, the democratic voters are a kept pet voting group for power hungry politicians. They'll loot the earned money of the working and business class to supply you your basic needs, and that is a difficult obstacle to politically defeat.
simplly correct is what I am with all the so far posted real charts and history books on my side nuts spin and handwaving on yours
Simply correct? You're blindly adhering to a position you desperately want to believe, but you're completely unwilling to examine the facts or circumstances of your position.
I was wrong, you're not just a simpleton, you're what's been termed a "useful idiot".
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02:00 AM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Originally posted by newf: This may be a crazy idea. And I only offer it because I am actually interested in knowing the correct answer. Not that a heated discussion isn't fun.
But can we decide on an authority when it comes to the politics in question and send them an email to answer?
I'm sure there are scholars out there that would be happy to clarify a discussion such as this, and I for one would defer to their expertise.
Just a thought, you can tell me to go to hell if you'd like.
this would work - if there actually was a correct answer this is the joy of politics - there IS NO right answer. NOTHING has worked as expected. yes, we have worked out MANY fine ideas. but, people being the shipheads they are - constantly find ways to frack it all up.
heres another arguement for the Nazis being left - lol - but its a mighty weak one right is Daddy, left is Mommy - and Deutschland is the MOTHERland toldja it was weak
heres another arguement for the Nazis being left - lol - but its a mighty weak one right is Daddy, left is Mommy - and Deutschland is the MOTHERland toldja it was weak
Especially since it, (was) called Das Vaterland, (The Fatherland), and where did you get this "Daddy, right, Mommy left stuff?
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12:16 PM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Originally posted by randye: Especially since it, (was) called Das Vaterland, (The Fatherland), and where did you get this "Daddy, right, Mommy left stuff?
hmm, I always hear "the motherland" - but - yes - that is in english
and - I get that from impressions/observations. it seems most on the right like to wear the daddy pants, and those on the left, well - ya know.....
edit: and - I did say mighty weak, didnt I?
[This message has been edited by Pyrthian (edited 05-21-2009).]
But the Horseshoe Diagram that you and Patrick tout as the definitive political spectrum map is also from a blog. So it's ok for you to use?
Where did I ever say the Horseshoe Diagram was "the definitive political spectrum map"?
I clearly stated when I posted the "Horseshoe Diagram" that it represented politics as taught to me in school back in the 1960's.
The problem with some of you guys is that not only do you insist the Nazi party of pre-WW2 Germany was left-wing, but you are also trying to promote the notion that the Nazi Party being labeled right-wing is somehow unusual or unheard of. You try to make it sound as though anyone who believes the Nazi Party is right-wing is somehow in the minority (perhaps on this forum), when in fact, this has been the accepted belief among the general population for decades.
It's interesting how current political trends have an effect on how past political events are viewed.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-21-2009).]
Where did I ever say the Horseshoe Diagram was "the definitive political spectrum map"?
I clearly stated when I posted the "Horseshoe Diagram" that it represented politics as taught to me in school back in the 1960's.
The problem with some of you guys is that not only do you insist the Nazi party of pre-WW2 Germany was left-wing, but you are also trying to promote the notion that the Nazi Party being labeled right-wing is somehow unusual or unheard of. You try to make it sound like anyone who believes the Nazi Party was/is right-wing is somehow in the minority (perhaps not on this forum), when in fact, this has been the accepted belief for decades.
It's interesting how current political trends have an effect on how past political events are viewed.
Pre and post ww2 the nazi party was and is left wing. An it's not that its unheard of that nazism is called right wing just that its wrong. An accepted belief isn't the same as a fact. The fact is nazism is a leftist socialism. The fact is that isn't taught in schools. The fact is people like you will ignore all the facts that go against your incorrect teaching from school. You ignore plain as day facts. You did all through this thread. But its what people like you and ray need to do. You can't simply be intellectually honest.
