Seems this needs to be settled once and for all, were the Nazi Party of Germany Left Wing Extremeist? Right Wing Extremeist? or just Extremist?


Please take your time and include in your post all supporting documentation and references you need to prove your point!
Lets make this a clean debate and please try to make your sources as credible as possible.

I would argue that the Nazi party founded in Germany was simply an extremist group, niether right nor left seems to really apply, but that is simply a personal opinion based on very limited knowledge of the subject.


This thread is intended to unclutter other threads where this side debate has seemingly taken over (and there seems to be a few)! LOL

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Dealing with failure is easy: work hard to improve. Success is also easy to handle: you've solved the wrong problem, work hard to improve.

National socialist German workers party.

Left wing as were most of its ideals and applied government programmes. Hitler himself said they were leftists and can be quoted lauding how they were socialist.

Depends on what country, the 'sides are different'. I do believe back in Europe they were considered right wing.

Either way, here in the USSA id also vote for FAR left wing, with the word extremist tossed in for good measure.

the Nazi party as it existed in germany in the 1930's is left & socialist. much like the current joke of GM now equal G'ment motors - look at what VW means. socialist. left.

the confusion is in the fact that many gangs call them selves Nazis - and the have NOTHING to do with the actual political party.
male dominated heiarchies based on force are the oldest hiearchy known to man - which means they are the root of conservative. EVERYTHING after that was at one time a leftist ideal. gangs, thugs & warlords are therefor conservative, right. Taliban. KKK. current day Nazi Gangs.

tho, I expect there might actually be "real" political activists who call themselves Nazi's - and you would need to check with their agendas to see which way they lean.

I'm inclined to agree with the OP on this one. The extremes of right and left are kissing cousins; similar enough to just refer to 'extremes' and call it a day.

The nazi party as it was under Hitler is still alive and well in the US and parts of europe. They are on the same level of socialist ideals and platform.

quote Originally posted by Phranc: The nazi party as it was under Hitler is still alive and well in the US and parts of europe. They are on the same level of socialist ideals and platform.

True. The only reason most people don't realize it is because the only thing the ignorant equate with "national socialism" is the holocaust. Schools don't teach history anymore; they just make 'history' class up as they go along.

Could someone repost that video about left versus right, and the different forms of government? That will explain it.

It was explained to me a hundred years ago in school that the opposite ends of the political spectrum are NOT at either end of a linear line representing left/right politics. It’s more of a horseshoe shape where the extremists at either end almost meet at the ends.



Instead of me regurgitating it all, have a look Here.

What I find disturbing in this forum is the quickness and voracity with which proponents of Hitler being a leftist enter into any discussion as soon as Hitler or Nazis are mentioned (not that I understand why Hitler and Nazis come up in conversation here so often).

It appears that certain members of this forum (and it’s not difficult to figure out who) are horrified to be somehow associated with any unpopular right wing group and will go to great lengths to distance themselves from these organizations.

Revisionist history is a scary thing. It is wrong, no it is criminal to purposely try and bury the truth.

Your diagram places Bill Clinton on the right? And it places France on the far right?

That theory may be true in some ways in that the extreme left and right end in totalitarianism but I think whoever came up with that diagram is a bit biased.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: It was explained to me a hundred years ago in school that the opposite ends of the political spectrum are NOT at either end of a linear line representing left/right politics. It’s more of a horseshoe shape where the extremists at either end almost meet at the ends. Instead of me regurgitating it all, have a look Here. What I find disturbing in this forum is the quickness and voracity with which proponents of Hitler being a leftist enter into any discussion as soon as Hitler or Nazis are mentioned (not that I understand why Hitler and Nazis come up in conversation here so often). It appears that certain members of this forum (and it’s not difficult to figure out who) are horrified to be somehow associated with any unpopular right wing group and will go to great lengths to distance themselves from these organizations. Revisionist history is a scary thing. It is wrong, no it is criminal to purposely try and bury the truth.

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: Your diagram places Bill Clinton on the right? And it places France on the far right? That theory may be true in some ways in that the extreme left and right end in totalitarianism but I think whoever came up with that diagram is a bit biased.

Well, we can nitpick who goes where exactly, but it's good enough to get the idea across.

True. I have read the article further and it is very good. I like how it exposes the new left for what it really is.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Well, we can nitpick who goes where exactly, but it's good enough to get the idea across.

Economically they were fascist.

Government wise they were leftist socialist.

Identity wise they were rightest nationalist.

Hitler was an Austrian, who thought the perfect German was a Swed.
This ability to disconnect from reality identifies him as right wing.

quote Originally posted by Phranc: The nazi party as it was under Hitler is still alive and well in the US and parts of europe. They are on the same level of socialist ideals and platform.

I am sure there are. and you could go right ahead and call them left wing socialists.
but, the majority of people who call them themselves "nazis" are nothing more than white supremist thugs. shaved head KKK clones. which are right wing conservatives.

apparantly Nazi's are above and beyond our simple pigeon holing concepts.

Yup, Hitler is a real hot button. Mention his name in almost any context and everybody scrambles to distance themselves and point the finger at somebody else like if you held ANY of his beliefs at all you are just as bad somehow.
I was taught that he was a socialist. He was also many other things in life including a bad artist. Wish I had a piece or two of his work in my collection. So if you are a socialist and involved in the arts (Hollywood) you are on the path.

What he was above all else was an extremist, that ended up with almost absolute power. He was very close to winning it all too. I think extremists are very dangerous no matter which end of the spectrum they may lean. Too much consolidation of power in too few hands should be avoided at all costs and I believe that socialism is a step down that path. Business/industry to me is another check on government power so when the government gets too much of a hold of that we are truly screwed.

quote Originally posted by Wolfhound: Hitler was an Austrian, who thought the perfect German was a Swed. This ability to disconnect from reality identifies him as right wing.

I agree and that is a very good quote

nazi's did have socialist in the party name
and you can call a fish a bird but it still willnot fly well

yes there were some real socialists in the nazi party
but in the night of the long knives they DIED
the few who didnot die lost most power
the rightwing took over totally

our neo-conn's donot like their near nazi thought's roots
thats too bad but still true
just as they claim now not to be racist
but I watched the KKK join the GOP in mass
and they love the BIG LIE another nazi trick
just as hitler lied when he called his party socialist
and about many many other things

look at who supported them on their rise to power
the army and the industry THINK ABOUT THAT!!!!!!!!!!!
as D T said FOLLOW THE MONEY
the nazi's support [ money ] came from the rightwing not the left

now why would the german rightwing support a socialist???????????????
maybe because he was not a socialist?????

sure VW was to be the peoples car
but look at how many were made
dammm few pre-war
but lots of K-wagons for the army
so was that a leftwing program ?????
or an army program with a lie at it's base [ people's car ]

btw on the horseshoe that should be franco not france
as all the others are people not countrys
and that is the correct spot for franco [spain's nazi leader]
and both bill clinton and BuSh2 are correctly placed
clinton never was a liberal sorry guys but thats why his program WORKED!!!!!
and BuSh2 was close to the nazi's and thats why his program DIDNOT WORK

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Question wonder and be wierd
are you kind?

quote Originally posted by ray b: and you can call a fish a bird but it still willnot fly well

lol - perfect.
and, again - we are mixing up Hitler specific with Nazi
and - more important is the fact that left =/= socialist
left = seeking change/progressive
also - left =/= liberal.
that is why we have all these terms. but - it sure is funny that right = conservative, eh?

if you are in a socialist nation, and are seeking to make it more capitalist - you are on the LEFT
much like what China is going thru.

IT'S REALLY, REALLY simple...

NAZI PARTY:

SUPPORTED:
- Labor, workers, unions
- "New Deal" type of programs (roads, construction, etc...)
- Wanted everyone to be equal (well... everyone that is that fit the aryan mold).
- Everyone should have the same things (Volkswagen, The People's Car)

AGAINST:
- Vehemently against ANY organized religion. It doesn't get mentioned much, but 1/5th of all the concentration camp deaths were christians (many of them Catholics).


I'm not sure what the reasoning is for Europeans to refer to the NAZIs and NeoNAZIs as "Right Wing Extreemists", but at least in terms of "OUR" definition "Right vs Left", they are definitely not right wingers.


Obviously, I don't think the left in our country supports the eradication of Jews since a little more than half of Jewish people are in fact Democrats themselves...

I do think however, plain and simple, that it's yet another way for the social / liberal ("progressive as they refer to it as) media to s**t on capitalism and the values that "our" right-wing party supports.

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Todd,
2006 Pontiac Solstice
2004 Volkswagen Beetle Convt. (Wife's)
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
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1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme 350

The Third Reich was a leftist government, led by a megalomaniacal idiot.

When you boil it all down, the only real difference between Nazi Germany and Communist Russia at the time was the personality of its dictator.

quote Originally posted by ray b: btw on the horseshoe that should be franco not france as all the others are people not countrys and that is the correct spot for franco [spain's nazi leader]

Ray, good catch in a good post. Yes, the France/Franco thing is a typo for sure.

quote Originally posted by ray b: I agree and that is a very good quote nazi's did have socialist in the party name and you can call a fish a bird but it still willnot fly well yes there were some real socialists in the nazi party but in the night of the long knives they DIED the few who didnot die lost most power the rightwing took over totally our neo-conn's donot like their near nazi thought's roots thats too bad but still true just as they claim now not to be racist but I watched the KKK join the GOP in mass and they love the BIG LIE another nazi trick just as hitler lied when he called his party socialist and about many many other things look at who supported them on their rise to power the army and the industry THINK ABOUT THAT!!!!!!!!!!! as D T said FOLLOW THE MONEY the nazi's support [ money ] came from the rightwing not the left now why would the german rightwing support a socialist??????????????? maybe because he was not a socialist????? sure VW was to be the peoples car but look at how many were made dammm few pre-war but lots of K-wagons for the army so was that a leftwing program ????? or an army program with a lie at it's base [ people's car ] btw on the horseshoe that should be franco not france as all the others are people not countrys and that is the correct spot for franco [spain's nazi leader] and both bill clinton and BuSh2 are correctly placed clinton never was a liberal sorry guys but thats why his program WORKED!!!!! and BuSh2 was close to the nazi's and thats why his program DIDNOT WORK

The same right wing took over that lauded socialism and pushed socialist programmes. I love your revisionist history. It clearly shows your level of education on the subject is based on high school history books. I could quote Hitler himself saying they were socialists but like Patric and neptune you never were one to let facts get in the way. The neocons are not near nazi as much as you'd like them to be. The dems are closer to nazism in platform.

BIG LIE
BuSh2
NeOcOn !!!

[This message has been edited by Phranc (edited 05-15-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Phranc: ...but like Patric and neptune you never were one to let facts get in the way.

Phranc, do you have to drag every thread you participate in down to your level?

Are you not able to engage in discussion without insulting anyone/everyone who has a different opinion than your own?

so, while we are here: how's about the Taliban? socialist or capitalist?
we already know they are "right", not left

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Phranc, do you have to drag every thread you participate in down to your level? Are you not able to engage in discussion without insulting anyone/everyone who has a different opinion than your own?

If you are insulted by the truth that's your problem. Maybe you should try being intellectually honest. And this isn't about opinions its about facts. Facts that ray and you ignore. And I didn't drag anything down I simply hold people up to standards. Standards that include honesty and acknowledging facts. Simple standards. Don't get upset because you chose to live up to them. And its not every thread. But again you don't let things like facts get in the way.

[This message has been edited by Phranc (edited 05-15-2009).]

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: ..... I'm not sure what the reasoning is for Europeans to refer to the NAZIs and NeoNAZIs as "Right Wing Extreemists", but at least in terms of "OUR" definition "Right vs Left", they are definitely not right wingers. .....

it depends on the Nazi's you are talking about. The political party - what there maybe of it - or the large group of gangs, which are basicly the Bald KKK White Supremists. Because - the party is left - the gangs are right. They are NOT the same thing. the party does NOT hail Hitler - the Gangs do - which makes it even more confusing.

quote Originally posted by Phranc: Maybe you should try being intellectually honest.

Maybe you should try getting laid.

It would help release all the pent up frustration and anxiety you appear to be constantly suffering from.

And that's a fact.

birds of a feather flock together
nazi ideas anti-commie anti-homosexual anti abortion anti-atheist anti-liberal anti-free thinking
pro military pro nationalist pro capital punishment pro police and police state actions

any neo-conn's who really doNOT support any of the above ideas?????????????

sure killing jews is currently out of favor but where are the other big differences
yes hitler LIED about being a socialist and many many other things
but actually did very very few real socialist acts

the revisionist shoe is on your foot here kicking hard but going nowhere
the neo-conned donot like the label of nazi but share many ideas and goals with them
and use many of the nazi's tools like the BIG LIE, love to call the media leftest
and use fear to fool the public

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Maybe you should try getting laid. It would help release all the pent up frustration and anxiety you appear to be constantly suffering from. And that's a fact.

No those would be opinion. I see why you have such trouble with facts now.

the tali-ban and the GOP both support their own versions of GOD'S LAWs
both hate liberals, womans rights, gays, freedom of and from religion and progress
that is far tooo much in common for me

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Question wonder and be wierd
are you kind?

quote Originally posted by ray b: birds of a feather flock together nazi ideas anti-commie anti-homosexual anti abortion anti-atheist anti-liberal anti-free thinking pro military pro nationalist pro capital punishment pro police and police state actions any neo-conn's who really doNOT support any of the above ideas????????????? sure killing jews is currently out of favor but where are the other big differences yes hitler LIED about being a socialist and many many other things but actually did very very few real socialist acts the revisionist shoe is on your foot here kicking hard but going nowhere the neo-conned donot like the label of nazi but share many ideas and goals with them and use many of the nazi's tools like the BIG LIE, love to call the media leftest and use fear to fool the public

Hitler lied about being a socialist?

Sure thing ray. I could believe that if it it wasn't for all the socialist policies he enacted. But those are facts and you don't want to deal in facts. And neocons aren't anti free thinking or anti atheist nor are they in support of police states powers. Liberals are pro military too.


neoconned
BuSh2
BIG LIE !!!!!

quote Originally posted by ray b: birds of a feather flock together nazi ideas anti-commie anti-homosexual anti abortion anti-atheist anti-liberal anti-free thinking pro military pro nationalist pro capital punishment pro police and police state actions any neo-conn's who really doNOT support any of the above ideas????????????? sure killing jews is currently out of favor but where are the other big differences yes hitler LIED about being a socialist and many many other things but actually did very very few real socialist acts the revisionist shoe is on your foot here kicking hard but going nowhere the neo-conned donot like the label of nazi but share many ideas and goals with them and use many of the nazi's tools like the BIG LIE, love to call the media leftest and use fear to fool the public

um, thats the facist part. and, yes, any "hard liner" loves that stuff.
VW is a major example - like it or not. it still exists today as a monument to socialism. along with BMW & Audi.
maybe you should look into Pre WW2 Nazi. Noone will deny the Nationalism. or the Facism. like any other "ism" - NONE work on their own. you need aspects of them all to make things go. But, one thing they did NOT like was any form of compitition which may come from capitalism. which is probably another reason why they eventually failed.

quote Originally posted by ray b: the tali-ban and the GOP both support their own versions of GOD'S LAWs both hate liberals, womans rights, gays, freedom of and from religion and progress that is far tooo much in common for me

The GOP hardly hates freedom of religion or woman's rights. And I'll be sure to inform all those log cabin republicans that they hate them selves.

Facts ray. Stop ignoring them.

quote Originally posted by Phranc: The GOP hardly hates freedom of religion or woman's rights. And I'll be sure to inform all those log cabin republicans that they hate them selves. Facts ray. Stop ignoring them.

please quit while your are joking
your facts are both funny and making my points
log cabin members of the GOP are so pushed aside and NOT supported by the party
as are the main anti-ERA people who are almost all in the GOP
and yes the GOP supports any freedom in religion as long as they
approve of the rightwing christian faction you can belong to
freedom from religion is not something the GOP supports at all

got any facts or just spin and BS on your side at all????????????

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Question wonder and be wierd
are you kind?

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Maybe you should try getting laid. It would help release all the pent up frustration and anxiety you appear to be constantly suffering from. And that's a fact.

How does the above response jive with the following quote?

"Phranc, do you have to drag every thread you participate in down to your level?
Are you not able to engage in discussion without insulting anyone/everyone who has a different opinion than your own?"

quote Originally posted by Phranc: The GOP hardly hates freedom of religion or woman's rights. And I'll be sure to inform all those log cabin republicans that they hate them selves. Facts ray. Stop ignoring them.

not factual - but often seems it:
freedom of religion - as long as it is Roman Catholic and a Womans right to make dinner & clean house.
as far as facts - these are raw stereotypes, generalizations & speculation, and argueing them is pointless.
and when people drag this kind of junk up - it does seem they have run out of actual issues, and just want to bash.

quote Originally posted by Phranc: Hitler lied about being a socialist? Sure thing ray. I could believe that if it it wasn't for all the socialist policies he enacted. But those are facts and you don't want to deal in facts. And neocons aren't anti free thinking or anti atheist nor are they in support of police states powers. Liberals are pro military too. neoconned BuSh2 BIG LIE !!!!!

Well, you see, folks like rayb have a simple mode of operation - demonize the ones you disagree with, marginalize them, and you can easily dismiss them. Compare Republicans/conservativews/"neo-cons" to Hitler and the Nazis, and you automatically win since Hitler and the Nazis are universally agreed to be animals. Make the argument right versus left, black and white, and get a simple soundbite answer. See how it works?

quote Originally posted by ray b: please quit while your are joking your facts are both funny and making my points log cabin members of the GOP are so pushed aside and NOT supported by the party as are the main anti-ERA people who are almost all in the GOP and yes the GOP supports any freedom in religion as long as they approve of the rightwing christian faction you can belong to freedom from religion is not something the GOP supports at all got any facts or just spin and BS on your side at all????????????

Right ray. The log cabins aren't GOP and they hate them self. Yup.
The only one spinning is you ray. At first the GOP hates gays then I point out the fact that there are log cabins in the GOP. They must hate them selves. And I'm sure the GOP doesn't support freedom of religion at all ray. Nope they would never do that. I bet there are no jews or muslims or even mormons in the GOP either and if there are they hate them selves and don't don't support them selves.

BIG LIE !!!
BuSh2
neoconned

quote Originally posted by Phranc: The GOP hardly hates freedom of religion or woman's rights. And I'll be sure to inform all those log cabin republicans that they hate them selves. Facts ray. Stop ignoring them.

Yup. They hate women's rights so much, they nominated Sarah Palin to be the vice presidential candidate, they made Condi Rice - BLACK WOMAN - secretary of state...yup, they just want to slap all those b1tch women back to the kitchen, to be barefoot and pregnant.

And liberals wonder why they look so freaking dumb to us?

quote Originally posted by fierobear: How does the above response jive with the following quote? "Phranc, do you have to drag every thread you participate in down to your level? Are you not able to engage in discussion without insulting anyone/everyone who has a different opinion than your own?"

It's pretty simple actually. I'm capable of responding in a similar manner as I've been addressed.

Please find a thread where I've instigated personal insults.