Well, if your gun collection hadn't been 'lost' in the boating accident, you could sell them to pay down your debt?
sleeping with fishes in their blanket of cosmolene? Gamo Auto 45 (yes, it's a CO2 pistol. get over it) Ruger Mark III 22/45 Colt Mustang Pocketlite .380 Springfield XD9SC AMT Backup .45 S&W Model 2 (grampa's gun) Mossberg 500A Cruiser 12gauge Browning 22 auto rifle (my first gun) Ruger 10/22 Bull barrel Winchester Model 61 22 (dad's gun) (on order) Kel-Tec SUB-2000
Nice find! I guess buddycraigg isn't willing to give up a gun or 5 either.
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07:34 PM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 24110 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
Nice find! I guess buddycraigg isn't willing to give up a gun or 5 either.
And this is telling, "(on order) Kel-Tec SUB-2000"
I still say if the "rules" of the game allow him to do it, keep his stuff, keep his house, I say go for it. A guy would almost be a fool not to simply play by the rules.
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08:18 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Truth be told, if he sold all his guns, all of his unnecessary cars and that pool table... he would be completely free of credit card debt.
I don't see what the problem is either... I mean, he GOT all of that stuff on credit card anyway...
quote
Originally posted by buddycraigg:
pool table, new, bought with the money my grandmother left me when she died, so I could remember her by, about $2500 about 10 years ago.
Judge people much, 82-T/A [At Work]?
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08:20 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
It's his decision to make and live with, but I think he is doing it for selfish reasons. He would be better off getting rid of his debt by getting rid of all those things he has that he does not need. Maybe he should be thinking about his family first and himself last. Having bad credit is going to make things harder on him and his family for years to come.
Free to do as he wishes--and he HAS helped an awful lot of people here at PFF. Might be part of the problem--he gives too much of himself--till there's nothing left for him but debt.
------------------ Rate 2.5fierose + today!!"
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09:31 PM
Nov 7th, 2009
buddycraigg Member
Posts: 13606 From: kansas city, mo Registered: Jul 2002
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Truth be told, if he sold all his guns, all of his unnecessary cars and that pool table... he would be completely free of credit card debt. I don't see what the problem is either... I mean, he GOT all of that stuff on credit card anyway...
that is incorrect, I didn't buy any of that with credit.
But ok... lets go there.
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: By the way, I seriously doubt your grandmother intended for you to buy a brand new pool table when she willed to you that money. I'm sure she would have been much happier if you had saved that money for your children's education. This is just an excuse. You posted this on here, so now you're going to get judged, and I'm only too happy to do it.
The $2500 was willed to my father. but my father died in 1981, so when my grandmother died in 1999 it went to me. At that time I didn't have any debt, other than I had just bought my house. And it was 6 years before I had a child.
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: "I don't care that the rest of you have to pay for my mistakes. I don't feel like suffering the consequences of my actions. You all can just go to hell."
Please don't edit a quote. You are putting words in my mouth. I owned the 3 items in question before I was in debt.
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: <snip> Buddy's gun list < /snip> No doubt, paid for with these credit cards while his children have no financial means to get into college when they graduate from grade school. I'm sure they'll be pleased.
Actually, only 4 of those guns were bought by me, WITH CASH. The rest belong to a white collar felon that I am holding for him. So I cant sell them. And for you to ask me to sell my fathers rifle is incomprehensible.
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Well, don't ever expect my pity then.
I wont.
If you ever go in to anaphylactic shock and have a heart attack, because you've never had lobster in your whole life and didn't know you were allergic to it. I won't care about you or your medical bills in the slightest bit.
If you are ever unemployed for 7 months in the winter and $152.00 a week wont even pay your mortgage, let alone keep the gas turned on, don't worry, I will not pity you.
[This message has been edited by buddycraigg (edited 11-07-2009).]
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01:56 AM
buddycraigg Member
Posts: 13606 From: kansas city, mo Registered: Jul 2002
Since I was the first to answer you I would say this: Be prepared to buy things with cash for a while. Be prepared to list all assets and debt. You cannot exclude anyone and some people who you owe are going to be upset. Be prepared to be shunned by some who have never had to do it. Be prepared to accept the people who have done it , and listen to them. I said before,I was young and stupid, and probably could have worked myself out of the situation Now days you get a call from India...........what do they know about our economy, other than they are doing something that a U.S. citizen could do except they are working for .........how much money? You may not be able to hang onto all the things you want to, and accept counceling, as I believe they now require it. Did I qualify? Maybe not . But one gets tired of someone telling you "Why don't you get a job?" Conditions when I did it were much like they are now. High unemployment. You'd better believe when times are tough the bill collectors probably hire extra help.
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03:34 AM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
Originally posted by avengador1: Having bad credit is going to make things harder on him and his family for years to come.
The only thing detrimental I got out of TWO bankruptcies was it took me a year to get a $150,000 home loan, lost one new car on a lease and a 50" TV.. I even got 3 unsecured credit cards (which I finally learned to use sparingly), one with $50,000 limit. Pretty much now If I dont have the cash, I dont buy. I bought my last 3 new cars all cash....and I didnt have to sell drugs to do it.
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07:20 AM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 24110 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
If you ever go in to anaphylactic shock and have a heart attack, because you've never had lobster in your whole life and didn't know you were allergic to it. I won't care about you or your medical bills in the slightest bit.
If you are ever unemployed for 7 months in the winter and $152.00 a week wont even pay your mortgage, let alone keep the gas turned on, don't worry, I will not pity you.
Yes, been there. I was unemployed for over 4 and a half months. I was broke. I had racked up charges on two credit cards and couldn't pay them off. They ended up going on my credit report. I signed up for unemployment, and it didn't end up coming until 2 months into my unemployment. This was right after the tech boom (and bust). I had my power shut off cause I couldn't afford it, so the land lord was threatening to evict me because of it. I would go to the gas station and check the phones for change so I could have money to buy ramen noodles. Exact same scenario as you, and there's NO BIG DEAL about it... that's part of life. Do you know how many people are going through that right now, or worse? Don't pity yourself... you put yourself in this situation.
YOU ASKED FOR ADVICE
I GAVE YOU THE ANSWER TO SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM
You basically said you don't care, and would rather keep your stuff and push the burden out on me.
I'm sure you've helped many people on here. Great, so have I... that's what we do on here when we give back to PFF. I learned everything there is to know about Fieros on here, and have been giving back for years and years. Doesn't excuse you pushing your debt burden on me.
It's funny how you say not to apologize, but then get defensive when faced with the facts.
Your pool table should be sold. Sorry... I doubt within a million years your dad OR your grandmother would have wanted you to buy it when you could have saved it.
I've been in debt plenty of times before, medical bills, frivilous spending... whatever. The true test of what kind of man you are is how you deal with your mistakes. If you push them onto others... that explains a lot. If you man up and deal with them yourself... then you should be commended.
I DON'T WANT TO PAY FOR YOUR SCREW-UPS.
I didn't make you pay for mine???
Sell all of your cars except your Grand Am. Sell your pool table, sell all of the guns that belong to you except your grandfathers (I totally understand this). Sell everything you have that's not a necessity like transportation and housing.
PAY off your debt.
Take your screw-ups like a man...
I've got more of this if you want to continue to try to justify your frivilous spending and bankruptcy.
By the way, if you think this is bad, just wait until you file...
This thread got a little political and judgemental, so I started to ignore and just post. Pardon if this is already covered..
Back when I was abut 19 - 21, I got myself into a lof of debt because of family health issues, school, car and bills. Prob owed $15,000, but when you are 20 that is a LOT of money... especially when you make maybe $7.00 an hour. Went to those credit counseling places and they worked it out to drop the interest down to zero, and then got me a monthy amount I could afford. I made the check to the credit counselor, and they applied it to the creditors.I came out clean after a certain nunnber of years. Banks, bills were paid, everyone was happy.. For me, credit counseling was excellent.I didn't feel like I was "screwing" the system, but it allowed me to get caught up. That was maybe 13 years ago, don't know how good the credit counseling is these days. For me it saved my butt.
Now this past year, a close friend of mine had a house and bills. Her fiance broke up with her, walked out, and left her with a lot of debt. She then got hurt in her job and couldn't do the physical work she used to.. I live in Mi, and jobs are tight here, so god luck finding a job anyway.. let alone if you aren't 100%. She tried for months to find a job...Unemployment had a screw up and wasn't sending her any assistance. Problem is she can't stand too long, so she needs something less physical. She couldn't find anything, even though she's got college degrees, and quite intelligent. She tried to work out a deal with the bank on the house. She was proactive. Called said she didn't have a job, no unemplyoment, and wants to work out something.. be it smaller payment or postponing payment until she got some $$. Bank told her to bug off. They wouldnt even help. She called a few times, even after not making the payment. Again, they told her to bug off. She ended up having to file bankruptcy. Lost her house, but kept her car and possessions. She did have the garage sale, and ebay-ed what she could, but it didn't make much. Soon after the bankruptcy, the unemployment fiacso was fixed and the state did begin to send her the back-owed $. Think the whole bankruptcy process took her 6 mnths or so, and it was quite smooth. Wasn't her first choice, but things happen. For her, it was pretty traumatic, tat she was actually filing bankruptcy, but was the best solution. She did have to create a list of her belongings and the estimated value of all that stuff together.By the time she got to the bankruptcy, she only had a few belongings left anyway, probably why it was so smooth.
The laywer she used gave free consultations and so do the credit counseling places. If I were to give any advice, I'd say you see the credit counselor and lawyer for professional advice and know what is best for your situation.
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10:49 AM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 24110 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
I'd also like to add, if you have any intentions of working for the government in a position other than being a janitor or a low paid desk clerk, then don't file for bankruptcy.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Yes, been there. I was unemployed for over 4 and a half months. I was broke. I had racked up charges on two credit cards and couldn't pay them off. They ended up going on my credit report. I signed up for unemployment, and it didn't end up coming until 2 months into my unemployment. This was right after the tech boom (and bust). I had my power shut off cause I couldn't afford it, so the land lord was threatening to evict me because of it. I would go to the gas station and check the phones for change so I could have money to buy ramen noodles. Exact same scenario as you, and there's NO BIG DEAL about it... that's part of life.
How many kids did you have at the time?
You're like the ex-smoker who gives all other smokers a hard time for their habit. Because YOU beat it, anyone should be able to. Tell me, if you were in that situation back after the tech bust and scrounging for ramen noodles, then read your own advice here - how helpful would it have been?
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12:00 PM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 24110 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
You're like the ex-smoker who gives all other smokers a hard time for their habit. Because YOU beat it, anyone should be able to. Tell me, if you were in that situation back after the tech bust and scrounging for ramen noodles, then read your own advice here - how helpful would it have been?
It's REALLY simple... he HAS a solution. You're IGNORING the point here...
It all comes down to the fact that he wants to "keep his stuff"
That's it...
He can call a debt consolidation company, and they will solve his problems AND he'll get the piece of mind of solving his problems.
That's not what he wants...
He wants his cake and to eat it too...
He wants to be debt free, and keep all of his toys.
Am I really missing something? What does it matter HOW he got into debt?
We gave him a REAL simple solution that doens't require the rest of the country to take on his burden for him... but he doesn't want it... he is being SELFISH... he wants to keep his toys and have EVERYONE ELSE pay for his problems.
The only way I would respect him is if he sold everything that wasn't an absolute necessity, and then STILL couldn't make ends meet... then he has to do what he has to do.
He COULD almost completely pay off his debt JUST with the frivilous stuff he owns right now.
No conern for what this does to his children, none whatsoever.
When my wife was pregnant, I immediately turned around and sold tons of things I didn't absolutely need. And all that money I get from it is going into my daughter's college 529 education fund.
I sold my Porsche 944, my 1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass, my 1981 Pontiac TransAm. I'm in the process of selling my entire video game collection to help pay for my college degree. Feel free to check my eBay account 73VWTodd
I sold my Pontiac Solstice, and my wife's Convertible Beetle because I still owed money on the Solstice and wanted to be more financially sound.
I bought a 2002 Ford Explorer Sport with really low miles... I own it, no payments.
I used the bulk of the money I got from the two cars and bought my wife an almost brand new 2008 Jeep Patriot so that she would have something new and reliable to drive my daughter around in.
I've PAID BACK all of my debt, and I would never assume to pushit on to someone else. Those two credit cards that I had maxed out in my early 20s... it hit my credit report and it was on there for years and years. I couldn't buy a house and was declined a loan. I did what I had to do...
I lived on pasta, canned soup, and walked everywhere I could. Any spare money I had, I used towards paying off my debt. I paid back both credit cards (the accounts had been closed a long time ago) as quickly as I could, and then sent a request for the credit card companies to remove the delinquency. They did, but left the historical late payments on them... but they changed the status to paid in full.
I also had thousands in medical bills that I had to pay off because I didn't have health insurance at the time... there were a few things... I passed kidney stones one time, and another time they thought I had testicular cancer.
I paid those off too.... What this comes down to is as simple as the fact that BuddyCraig wants to keep his toys, and not take responsibility for his life. He would rather push off his responsibilities on others.
The solution is simple, CALL a debt consolidator, let them work it out for you. THEN, if you want to speed up the eliminating debt process, sell all of your crap.
Todd If your credit is good enough you are not paying for Buddycraigs screwup because your interest rate should not be that high, so quit crying. If your credit is good enough and the card company is trying to raise your interest rate there are probably card companies waiting in line to extend you credit. And, if Buddycraig has had his credit accounts for a period of time, and if he has had a fairly high interest rate, he has probably paid for his obligation at least once. Furthermore, credit card companies are just as guilty as mortgage companies who, in the past, extended credit to people who shouldn`t have gotten it.
[This message has been edited by TXGOOD (edited 11-07-2009).]
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09:44 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: It's REALLY simple... he HAS a solution. You're IGNORING the point here...
I'm not ignoring the point. I'm just not using it as an excuse to be an ass. He's asking for suggestions - not judgment.
But you do bring up a very good point that he may have missed. Most credit card companies will be willing to negotiate a payoff settlement, but you have to have the cash ready to settle. If he were to sell some of his stuff to get enough to pay off half his debt, he could probably negotiate with them so they'd take that as payment in full.
Buddy, if you do decide to do that, what will happen is your credit report will show the account was settled for a lesser amount and closed. It's worse than paying off in full, but much better for your credit than bankruptcy or going into collections.
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 11-07-2009).]
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09:47 PM
Nov 8th, 2009
raysr11 Member
Posts: 1254 From: Concrete, WA Registered: Nov 2008
I've done it twice, but that was before Bush let the credit card companies write the "new" bankruptcy law. Very bad for small business, seeing how they usually fail within 5 years. Now they have no reason to correct their previous mistakes and start over because they can't get a clean slate.
Well, I don't see any upside to it. In a good economy, it probably wouldn't have much effect on anything. In a bad economy, when losses are already at record highs, it pushes int rates up across the board. It causes losses to be written off, meaning losses in 401ks that are invested in whatever company holds the debt. Losses as well to individual stockholders, including those who are counting on returns for their own retirement thru mutual funds or decreased/zero dividends for their personal everyday expenses. It also causes a worsened balance sheet for whoever underwrote the debt, which means they don't have $ to lend out to those who are trying to borrow for their own needs. 120 banks have failed so far this year, due to loss of revenues on loans and other credit.
We all pay the price for these circumstances.
When you go into bankruptcy, you will have to state your total assets, as well as your total debt, income, and other particulars, and these will be verified to best of the secured debtholder's ability, and to the satisfaction of the bankruptcy court. And, it doesn't matter if the items were all purchased by credit or not--or even if they were purchased at all. Gifts are usually included in assets--even most inheritances--but not all. Doesn't make a lot of difference, but ALL of it is supposed to be divulged to the court. Some things, are exempted by law during the proceeding--most are not. You WILL have to liquidate most of what you have listed according to the direction of the court. The only way to avoid all your belongings being listed, is to hide them, which obviously, means being untruthful. If you are found out, it can be charged as a criminal offense. Most likely fraud of some sort.
The other part of course is the moral dilema. I previously said I would have navigational problems with bankruptcy, meaning loss of my moral compass. Thy shall not steal. Thy shall not lie. Thy shall not covet.
Being a believer in God, I would be violating all of those commandments if I were to file, as I would be keeping things that did not rightfully belong to me, would be lying if I didn't divulge everything I was asked to, and would be coveting that which was not mine as well...................but that's me.
I think your mind is made up and probably was before you posted the thread. I wish you the best of luck with it, hope it all works out, but I don't think you will truly be happy with the outcome unless you declare everything in your possession, whether it's located on your property or not.
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12:17 AM
USFiero Member
Posts: 4877 From: Everywhere and Middle of Nowhere Registered: Mar 2002
Good Point. I was laid off from a job that paid $1200 less than the job I had before, and had to travel farther to get to, and was denied unemployment for four or five months until I got to appeal it last year. Drained every investment I had to keep the bills paid. Negotiated with creditors, including my mortgage holder. Thank goodness the stock market tanked after I sold everything in my portfolio, but taxes on the profits damn near killed me a second time, even after I had them withhold. Got behind on a lot of things but not the mortgage; I'm still trying to get relief there because my new job only pays as much as the previous lousy job. It may be years before I get to the level of income I had went I first went back to work after getting let go back in 2004 and not working for almost a year (I went to school because I could afford it then). So I got behind on a few unsecured credit cards, and kept calling them to let them know. Most of them were pretty cool about it, and I was able to arrange reduced payments. A couple were jerky and I simply got farther and farther behind since they were heaping penalties and jacking the interest - and threatening me with stuff I knew they couldn't pull in my state - until the two worst sent me a settlement offer that was a fair amount. Pretty much what the other card companies were doing. I arranged to pay them off, one in three installment payments and one would only do a lump sum. This sounds stupid, but we made a lot of adjustments here at the house - no going out to dinner, cutting every service out or to the minimum; I even got a reduced price for my DSL from the phone company. There's a lot of creative things that can be done. In the back of my mind doing the bankruptcy again, like twenty-some-odd years ago was on my mind, but this time I thought I could avoid it. So far, so good. But I'd sure like to see the economy improve where companies would spend some money on network storage. <---- what i do now.
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12:40 AM
PFF
System Bot
mrfiero Member
Posts: 9002 From: Colorful Colorado Registered: Mar 99
Is there anyone with the stigmata willing to tell me their story?
Hmm.....no stigmata here (checks hands & feet for bleeding ), but maybe there is a stigma attached to those who have filed for bankruptcy. I won't get into all the gory details of my life, but I filed about 2.5 years ago after a failed sub sandwich shop venture. In 3.5 months I lost almost $50,000 and no longer had an income. I was unemployed for 8 months after I closed the shop and sold off almost everything I owned that was worth something, but that was not enough. There were many days where I had nothing to eat. It was a very depressing time in my life. I had always been able to get work, but there was nothing available.....I even got turned away as a cashier at Auto Zone!
Ultimately I had to file.....I had a house that I hadn't made a payment on in 6 months, I had business debt and personal debt that hadn't been paid either. Even though I had no choice, I struggled with the decision. I still thought I could get back on track, if I could just find a job. I wouldn't find a good job for another year, so I'm glad I did file when I did. I had to move back in with my parents for about a year.....very humbling. I was 36 and living in my parents basement. Depression was in full swing, let me tell you!
I filed in April 2007, but it wasn't until October 2008 before I had a stable job that paid resonably well. Even so, I felt guilty buying anything and it wasn't until March 2009 that I bought a new car. I actually had money in the bank for the first time in my life and was no longer working or living paycheck to paycheck. I have since moved on to a new job that pays me more than I have ever made in my life. If I hadn't filed for bankruptcy, I would still be mired in bad debt struggling to make ends meet. I do not regret my decision and as long as you have exhausted all possible avenues, neither should you.
To this day I still do not own a credit card and in all honesty, I never want another one. My only debts are student loans, car payment (although I have recently totalled my car, I will be buying a new one next week), rent and basic living expenses. I pay cash for everything and that's fine with me.
The bottom line is do what is best for you. In deference to many who have responded to this thread, until you have hit rock bottom, you really have no clue. I felt alone and alienated when I had no money or job......I was depressed and suffered panic attacks and high anxiety. I lost weight, hair (although I was already going bald ) and found it difficult to leave the house. Bankruptcy was not some sort of golden egg, but it did lift the weight that was smothering me and allowed me to pull myself up and get my self-respect back.
I know that my situation is different than yours, but I hope that your decision to file has the same results. I still have debt (those student loans never go away!), but I am now able to pay it off without stuggling to do so. I wish you well.
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01:08 AM
buddycraigg Member
Posts: 13606 From: kansas city, mo Registered: Jul 2002
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: He wants his cake and to eat it too... He wants to be debt free, and keep all of his toys. <snip> He COULD almost completely pay off his debt JUST with the frivilous stuff he owns right now.
You have an exaggerated idea of what my toys are worth. most of the cost for a pool table is the set up so I might get 500.00 for it.
The Catalina needs paint, the vinyl top is ruined and rusting through on the roof, and the interior is in sad shape. So maybe $1000.00 there.
I've watched the price of V8 fieros over the last 10 years. I would be lucky to get $2000.00 out of it.
3500.00 to give up the only material items that I care about. That's not good enough for me. And once i get back on my feet, the pool table and possibly the Catalina could never be replaced for any amount of money.
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: No conern for what this does to his children, none whatsoever.
you are way wrong there. I work in my garage everynight to make extra money, Kinda like a second job. And it takes time away from my son.
My son's clothes come from the thrift store except for his underwear. I want him to grow up knowing me, spending time with me. Not just some guy that comes in the house at 11pm and goes to bed.
But I have what I needed.
I started this thread asking for the stories of those that have done it. I have lived under these bills for so long, pay check to pay check and not getting anywhere. I was looking for someone to give me a horror story, to convince me not to do it.
Todd, If you want to beat a drum, then go after people that have been on welfare for the last 15 years. I'm not trying to live off of the system, but it looks like my best option is to "reboot" myself.
Thanks to everyone else for their replies.
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02:34 AM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 24110 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
Todd, If you want to beat a drum, then go after people that have been on welfare for the last 15 years. I'm not trying to live off of the system, but it looks like my best option is to "reboot" myself.
Thanks to everyone else for their replies.
You were looking for answers. We told you that you could call a debt consolidation company that would help. More than likely, you wouldn't need to sell anything.
But you don't care... you'd rather not be bothered...
You don't want to take responsibility at all...
You don't even want to try...
Have fun, because these things you say you refuse to sell... well... you'll probably end up having to sell them.
I've done it twice, but that was before Bush let the credit card companies write the "new" bankruptcy law. Very bad for small business, seeing how they usually fail within 5 years. Now they have no reason to correct their previous mistakes and start over because they can't get a clean slate.
Wow, I bet you're proud of yourself. Too bad you can't keep filing...
Sometimes......sometimes................ a person is better off not opening their thoughts on this forum. It gets ugly and battle lines are formed. To those of you who have never filed. Congratulations. For those who have and have shared......Thanks. Buddy Craigg.............do what you want to do. You have heard both sides and we feel you will do what you want to. I am outta here on this subject. I guess you could say I should be concentrating on my own life right now. Too much to even talk about. Have a GOOD football Sunday....................Cliff
I actually had money in the bank for the first time in my life and was no longer working or living paycheck to paycheck.
I don't understand why so many people can't seem to embrace this simple statement and make it a priority in their financial lives. Even if you throw a few bucks in the pot every week, it all adds up.
I make it a PRIORITY to NEVER pay the man interest. IMHO, if you are buying something "fun" on credit, the credit takes all the "fun" out of it.
NEVER forget - "THE MAN'S" goal is to keep his big 'ol chain around your neck for your entire life. I refuse to live with that chain dragging me down.
The bottom line for me is, "if I can't pay for it, I don't need or want it".
To me, living debt free is one of the most satisfying and "fun" things in my life.
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09:03 AM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
I am concerned about him filing bankrupcy because it can also affect his employment prospects in the future if he wants to change jobs. Employers are now looking at prospective employee credit records. Having good credit makes one more employable because it shows they are fiscally stable and responsible. Roger cannot compare his bankruptcy to this one because he was in a different position than buddycraig is.
I feel that I need to fill some of you in to try to keep from loosing your respect.
I know this is my debt. But in 10 years, I have made almost no headway. I live paycheck to paycheck. And I have no savings.
and to those of you thinking that I am living high on the hog let me run down my house and appliances for you.
House 975 square feet bought for about $58,000. 11 or 12 years ago. still making payments.
Kitchen Stove / oven, used, bought when I got the house. Dishwasher, used, given to me by a neighbor when I moved in. Refrigerator, used, got it from work when they replaced the one in the break room about 3 years ago.
dining room table and chairs, used, bought from a friend when i got my house
living room TV, used, bought from a thrift store about 6 years ago. VCR, bought new from walmart, probably 4 years old. DVD player, used, found in a trash dumpster dive.
Son's bedroom bed, dresser and stand up lamp, used, belonged to Polly before we met. Wedding dress, new, bought when I met Polly 10 years ago, 600.00 on a credit card
computer room desk, used, bought at salvation army thrift store computer, used, bought from or donated by PFF members monitor, used, bought at thrift store. chair, used, given to me by a friend.
master bedroom king sized bed, used, given to me by a customer when he moved in to an old folks home.
Basement dryer, used, was picked up on the side of the road. I haven't had a working washing machine in about 5 years hot water heater, came with house 11 years ago furnace, came with house 11 years ago pool table, new, bought with the money my grandmother left me when she died, so I could remember her by, about $2500 about 10 years ago. AC unit, new, paid by check, about 2 years ago. Air compressor, new, bought with credit card $200, about 18 years ago.
so that's $800 on the credit cards for the house in the last 18 years.
cars 1985 fiero GT, used, given to me in pieces about 6 years ago. was a daily driver before I bought my Grand Am parked because no insureance and waiting for me to put it back together after it was stolen.
1984 fiero, used, paid $300 for it. i probably put $3000.00 in credit cards for putting a V8 archie kit in it around 1998
1967 Catalina, used, paid $1200 for it. I bought this car in 1992 and really haven't spent too much on it other than replace the engine. about $1200 to rebuild and install a 455 buick engine. but I cant remember if I used a credit card.
1985 Kawasaki 900 ninja, used, with body damage. paid $1500 for it in 1992 (yes, i was still living at my mom's house in 1992)
1996 Grand Am, used, paid the mother of a close friend $900 for it about 2 years ago.
all of the vehicles are parked because i can not afford to put insurance on them, except for the Grand Am.
So I would say that 85% of my credit card debt was from when I was in the hospital or when i was unemployed for 7 months and used the cards to pay my utilities.
yes this is my debt. and i feel a heavy weight.
But please don't think I haven't tried. I've been paying the minimum payment + whatever else I could afford every month, dropping my checking account to 0.00 for the last 10 years.
I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe there is, and the tunnel is just too long for the light to shine that far.
debt? Principal only?--or principal + interest? total assets? Honesty--what do you think your apprasised value is? Guns-cars-pool table,everything?
And, I have a question for those of you who filed in the past and turned things around.
After you got back on your feet and once again prosperous and productive, did you seek out all those you owed and pay them their principal?
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10:29 PM
Nov 9th, 2009
never2old Member
Posts: 1854 From: Wyoming, Michigan USA Registered: Dec 2005
Don................One last time...................... I was younger and stupid. I was in business for myself. Yes I did have to include everyone when filing. You cannot pick and choose who is put oin the list as a debtor. YES.............I did pay back people who I could. It took me three years but I paid them in full with interest if they wanted it. I am still doing business with one and have been since 1986.
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06:21 AM
PFF
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TXGOOD Member
Posts: 5410 From: Austin, Texas Registered: Feb 2006
Well, as I stated above, in my case if the credit card companies would have held my e-wife responsible for half of our debts like the court did, I would not had to have filed bankruptcy. I`ll tell you another thing, the credit card companies at least in my experience, won`t even work with you unless you go through credit counselling or some program like that. Even today, as my credit has gotten better, if I call the couple of card companies I have, they tell me there are no programs available at the moment to lower my interest rate. I don`t particularly like that "across the board mentality". How about scrutinizing an individual for an interest increase or decrease?
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07:43 AM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
I didnt read the entire thread, but here is my contribution.
A friend of a friend, is in his mid 30s, been "married" for about 12 years, and him and his wife have a few kids. Anyway, they take turns filing bankruptcy.... Here is how it was explained to me.
They are not legally married... They both keep their assets separate from eachother, they both have jobs or at least income.
Every 3.5 years, one of them files for bankruptcy because the last time they filed was 7 years prior. I am not sure what they can gain from this, but I imagine there are a few loopholes that let it become an advantage. I know that they never lived in a house for more than a few years, but they always had a very lavish house, well furnished, etc. Kids were well off with alot of toys, both drove new new cars..
Like I said, the details were lost in the grapevine, but I would imagine that fraud on this level would have some advantages. Combine this with some laundering of funds between them, some under the table type income, and some fancy tax maneuvers, and I could see the 2 parents working part time at burger king and getting off with effectively a combined income of 100k a year.
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09:29 AM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
I don't understand why so many people can't seem to embrace this simple statement and make it a priority in their financial lives. Even if you throw a few bucks in the pot every week, it all adds up.
I make it a PRIORITY to NEVER pay the man interest. IMHO, if you are buying something "fun" on credit, the credit takes all the "fun" out of it.
NEVER forget - "THE MAN'S" goal is to keep his big 'ol chain around your neck for your entire life. I refuse to live with that chain dragging me down.
The bottom line for me is, "if I can't pay for it, I don't need or want it".
To me, living debt free is one of the most satisfying and "fun" things in my life.
I just wanted to say that I also have never bought anything on credit. I have a credit card and use it often, but that is only for the convenience factor, as it gets paid in full every month, and it was cheaper than a $1 a month charge I would have on a checking account/debit card. The fact that my "credit rating" goes up and up while I use it is a good side effect as well, in the situation where I may "need" credit.
It does make the fiero alot more fun, not having it "owe" me anything. Having it be as fast as it is for as cheap as it is, I consider it to be one of my best investments as it has paid back fun in nearly in-measurable amounts, created a few solid friendships, and offered a bit of life lessons on the side.
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09:37 AM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
dont let some of these folk try and shame you that money was loaned to you by lenders KNOWING they may not get it back thats what unsecure loans are
now ya know better
dont pay 2x for the same items thru the process of interest. if you dont have the $$$ - you dont have the $$$ - so dont buy $hit and pay 2x for it. credit cards are a racket - loan sharking - dont use them - and if you do - abuse them - dont pay them - file bankruptcy.
another no product money making scheme. a HUGE cause of our current economy.
dont let some of these folk try and shame you that money was loaned to you by lenders KNOWING they may not get it back thats what unsecure loans are
now ya know better
dont pay 2x for the same items thru the process of interest. if you dont have the $$$ - you dont have the $$$ - so dont buy $hit and pay 2x for it. credit cards are a racket - loan sharking - dont use them - and if you do - abuse them - dont pay them - file bankruptcy.
another no product money making scheme. a HUGE cause of our current economy.
/\ Not surprised. The expected response/advice from someone who wants the general public to subsidize their health care, and who lives in a state that has been the #1 beneficiary of one of the biggest bankruptcies in global history--all at the expense of the rest of us. Those $ billions will never be repaid to the US Taxpayer. Theft-plain and simple. OTOH Never2Old--good for you--you did the right and just thing.
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11:19 AM
Nov 10th, 2009
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 24110 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
/\ Not surprised. The expected response/advice from someone who wants the general public to subsidize their health care, and who lives in a state that has been the #1 beneficiary of one of the biggest bankruptcies in global history--all at the expense of the rest of us. Those $ billions will never be repaid to the US Taxpayer. Theft-plain and simple. OTOH Never2Old--good for you--you did the right and just thing.
What it comes down to is really simple...
Different people will try to rationalize things in hopes of making it conform and "fit" their morals or values. The justification that it's OK to not have to pay off those loans simply because the credit card companies are "corrupt" or that they were "tricked" into something, simply does not fly with me.
When you sign the dotted line... you are giving your WORD to agree to those contracts. When you take out a credit card, you are giving your WORD as a man, as a human being, that you're going to pay it.
When you don't do this, you are going against your word.
Obviously, things happen that our out of our control. A good example is Saturday night my water heater exploded, flooded part of my house. In the end, it cost me $863 dollars (I went with a new Whirlpool 40 gallon Energy Smart water heater, 30% more efficient than a conventional one). That was a cost that was obviously not in my budget. Rather than depleate a good amount of my normal savings, I put it on a low interest credit card until I can pay it off. Medical bills, etc...
As a man of your word (not you, but the person in debt), you MUST make every effort you possibly can to make good on these contracts and these loans.
To do that, you would want to go to credit counseling which would negotiate for you to pay off the debt.
The OP is simply unconcerned about the actual debt, but more concerned with keeping his toys. I'm sure he's a great guy, but that doesn't change the fact that he's going against his word.
Would I ever want to loan money to someone like this? Or even a tool from my garage? No... definitely not.
Would I want to have a beer with someone like this, sure, why not.
Our actions in life speak volumes of who we are as a person. He is NOT willing to even TRY to pay off this debt, but instead would prefer to go the easy route simply so that he doesn't have to deal with it.
I can only hope that at the very least, he would consider at this point just CALLING one of those free credit consolidation companies. Think what you will about me, it's really of no concern to me. In the end, if you do go through a credit counseling / debt consolidation company... you're life will end up better. By filing for bankruptcy, you're basically telling the world... "I cannot be trusted" and understand that people WILL read it that way, whether you like it or not. Employers are more than ever looking at credit scores before they hire people. It's the new bachelors degree. If you file for bankruptcy, you're basically accepting the fact that you will never, ever get a government job (and that's where most of the jobs are headed right now).
You owe it to yourself, and your family to go to debt consolidation.
(for anyone that feels I'm being too harsh, kiss my ass...)
I agree that it is a moral obligation to try to do anything you can to pay off your creditors. Now, if you are left with too many debts because of divorce or what have you and even Credit Couseling tells you that you don`t make enough money to even get on a program, then you are pretty much screwed. Don`t get me wrong, I don`t like being in debt and I am proudly paying off my debts, but to the people who say don`t buy anything on credit, you have either forgotten or have never been in the situation of not having schooling or the means to get a job to make enough money to pay more than your basic living expenses. When a person works their butt off for an extended period of time and has nothing to show for it, it`s easy to fall into the trap of buying that new tv or whatever on credit for just a few dollars a month.
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12:47 PM
Songman Member
Posts: 12496 From: Nashville, TN Registered: Aug 2000
dont let some of these folk try and shame you that money was loaned to you by lenders KNOWING they may not get it back thats what unsecure loans are
now ya know better
dont pay 2x for the same items thru the process of interest. if you dont have the $$$ - you dont have the $$$ - so dont buy $hit and pay 2x for it. credit cards are a racket - loan sharking - dont use them - and if you do - abuse them - dont pay them - file bankruptcy.
another no product money making scheme. a HUGE cause of our current economy.
Wow! I never thought I would see someone admit to a total lack of character anywhere. This is amazing. I mean I am not surprised that it is you saying it. It does seem to go right along with everything I have ever seen you post on this forum.. but to just come right out and admit openly that you have no problem screwing people over for your own benefit. Amazing - in a really sad way. I bet you don't get people trusting you too much after they figure out how you are. I know I wouldn't buy anything from you or sell anything to you after this admission.
And while you are correct that money is loaned by lenders... The products and/or service received during the transaction do not come from lenders. They come from every day citizens just trying to make a living. No different than you or me... Well, maybe different from you, but not from me. Normally just honest Americans trying to put in a day's work for a day's pay. They do not expect nor deserve to be screwed over just because you think it is okay to blame it on lenders. Lenders don't MAKE anyone charge anything. They don't MAKE you not pay it off every month and have to pay interest. They don't MAKE you keep charging even though you know it is more than you make. Credit cards may not be a smart move for everyone to make, but they are not a racket unless you are guilty of the things I just listed. Still not the fault of the credit card or the lender. The RACKET is people who believe like you suggested above - "dont use them - and if you do - abuse them - dont pay them - file bankruptcy." I have never seen a bigger pile of smoking horse crap in my whole life. No wonder you are so confused about everything.
And THIS is a huge cause of our current economy. People who take and take and take but don't pull their weight by fulfilling their end of the deal. JUST... LIKE... YOU.
[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 11-10-2009).]
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01:55 PM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Originally posted by Songman: Wow! I never thought I would see someone admit to a total lack of character anywhere. This is amazing. I mean I am not surprised that it is you saying it. It does seem to go right along with everything I have ever seen you post on this forum.. but to just come right out and admit openly that you have no problem screwing people over for your own benefit. Amazing - in a really sad way. I bet you don't get people trusting you too much after they figure out how you are. I know I wouldn't buy anything from you or sell anything to you after this admission.
And while you are correct that money is loaned by lenders... The products and/or service received during the transaction do not come from lenders. They come from every day citizens just trying to make a living. No different than you or me... Well, maybe different from you, but not from me. Normally just honest Americans trying to put in a day's work for a day's pay. They do not expect nor deserve to be screwed over just because you think it is okay to blame it on lenders. Lenders don't MAKE anyone charge anything. They don't MAKE you not pay it off every month and have to pay interest. They don't MAKE you keep charging even though you know it is more than you make. Credit cards may not be a smart move for everyone to make, but they are not a racket unless you are guilty of the things I just listed. Still not the fault of the credit card or the lender. The RACKET is people who believe like you suggested above - "dont use them - and if you do - abuse them - dont pay them - file bankruptcy." I have never seen a bigger pile of smoking horse crap in my whole life. No wonder you are so confused about everything.
And THIS is a huge cause of our current economy. People who take and take and take but don't pull their weight by fulfilling their end of the deal. JUST... LIKE... YOU.
yup either legislate self control - or not if they are legal - then you WILL have this kind of thing happen. thats that. you can try and imply I dont pay my bills or pull my weight - but you would be endlessly wrong. defaulting & bankruptcy is part of the reality of credit cards.
feed the consumerism for everything else - there's Visa
bankruptcy is a legitimate option, and nothing to be shamed by
my cat recieved a credit card. if banks want to give away money - maybe you should cry to them.
[This message has been edited by Pyrthian (edited 11-10-2009).]
), but maybe there is a stigma attached to those who have filed for bankruptcy. I won't get into all the gory details of my life, but I filed about 2.5 years ago after a failed sub sandwich shop venture. In 3.5 months I lost almost $50,000 and no longer had an income. I was unemployed for 8 months after I closed the shop and sold off almost everything I owned that was worth something, but that was not enough. There were many days where I had nothing to eat. It was a very depressing time in my life. I had always been able to get work, but there was nothing available.....I even got turned away as a cashier at Auto Zone! 
) and found it difficult to leave the house. Bankruptcy was not some sort of golden egg, but it did lift the weight that was smothering me and allowed me to pull myself up and get my self-respect back. 
