quote Originally posted by Songman: Paul, not agreeing, or even not understanding Buddy's situation does not give you the right to call anyone a butthead. Sorry. Just not gonna agree with that one. Killing someone is a personal decision too. I retain the right to tell someone I think they shouldn't do it, whether they ask me or not. If I feel they are making a bad choice, it becomes my responsibility to tell them so. Todd was a little harsh on Buddy, sure. But he was trying to help him. He only got harsh when Buddy said he wanted rid of the debt but wanted to keep his toys. In the case of Buddy, he has gotten lots of good advice, both for and against bankruptcy. I have constantly said that everyone's story is different and I would never judge anyone solely on whether or not they filed bankruptcy. really everyone was pretty supportive of Buddy until he said he wanted to file bankruptcy to get rid of his debt but was not willing to get rid of any of his toys. Now I am still not judging Buddy. This is just the fact of this thread. In the case of the soldier who was overseas and his girlfriend was sitting in the dark, that was a last resort. Bankruptcy should always be the last resort. If you have things to sell, you still have options. If you have not tried to seek counseling, you still have options. This is not an insult to Buddy or anyone else, it is honestly good advice that is for his own good. Some here try to paint bankruptcy as a bed of roses where you can get rid of all the debts you built up getting all the cool stuff you got, and then you can start getting cool stuff again with your new credit cards.... Sorry. This is always going to be wrong. You want to call someone a butthead - start there. Fact of the matter is, this is a public forum. People are entitled to whatever opinion they want to hold and/or express. Buddy may have only asked for stories from people who have actually filed, but others tried to be helpful and offer what they know too. This was a good thing for Buddy. Hopefully, in the end he will come to a better solution than bankruptcy that will not have long lasting financial and emotional affects on him and his family. So I say again... Just because you don't agree with what someone says doesn't mean you have the right to call them a butthead. Even though you don't like it, they were still offering Buddy sound advice that could actually help him. Much better than saying 'use it-abuse it-file bankruptcy' as was done earlier. I notice you didn't jump on that person. I guess you do have the right to call people a butthead just because you don't like what they said because this is a public forum - it just makes you look shallow and not very intelligent. I am sure that is not the case, but that is what your name calling makes people think. Like I have said this entire thread - Every situation is different. I am sorry about your wife's illness. Both for her health and for the financial burden it put on you. If bankruptcy was the last resort for you, I am glad it was there as an option for you. I hope that if you get solid again, you will at least try to repay some of the people who were out money for the good and/or services that they sold to you in good faith. And I hope Buddy finds other avenues that will help him before he goes that route. I truly think that he doesn't yet know the emotional impact it can have on him. I don't know Buddy. But I have never gotten the impression from him that he would rip someone off. I think, and I could be wrong, that filing bankruptcy would give him some immediate relief from bills, but would eventually haunt his sensibilities. Bankruptcy WILL force him to get rid of those toys, unless he loses his character completely and lies about them. The smarter move for him would be counseling. He could keep the stuff, even if realistically he shouldn't. And he could get relief from the debt and keep his pride and character. I feel this is a much better choice. Buddy, there are many non-profit credit counseling agencies out there. I have never used one but an old girlfriend of mine did. They got rid of all the high interest cards and loans and she made one $300 payment to them per month. You will have to look to see what is available in your area. Those of us around the country can't do that for you. I don't know how many FREE ones are out there. Even the non-profits probably have to charge a little just to stay afloat. I can assure you that it is less that close to 30% on your current credit cards. They will get you out from under the cardholders. They will get you on a plan you can afford. You will get to know that you didn't screw anyone over AND you got yourself out of debt. How can that be a bad feeling? As I have told you many times in this thread - Good luck.

I understand your position and was not refering to you, however, there is no need to call him names, or pass blame to him.


My point was that it could happen to anyone on this forum, and I think it is more constructive to give him solutions than blame.


When my wife became ill, our income dropped $70,000 per year, this would have an effect on anyone.

While people are always entitled to their opinion, they can express it without namecalling and blaming an individual, who is simply asking for help/advice.

quote Originally posted by buddycraigg: I already eat like that for lunch AND dinner. But I will not make my son eat an 80¢ meal for my mistakes made 6 years before he was born. I have been paying my bills, living paycheck to paycheck for 10 years. and tonight is the first time that I was not able to make at least the minimum payment to my credit cards after paying the mortgage and utilities I am now to the point that I cannot keep up with my bills .

So call a Debt Consolidation company, why is this so hard for you to understand???

Sell all your cars except your Grand Am and you'll have much of that paid off.

You're not doing ANYTHING to help your son right now.

You say it like the mistakes you made 6 years before your son was born are somehow not your fault, and that somehow you should be absolved of them?

If you're not willing to make sacrifices, you're going to be in the exact same situation you are in now, a couple of years down the line...


EDIT: I wasn't sure, so I looked back at my messages. I'm unable to find anywhere in this thread that I called you a name??? Maybe you can find it for me???

EDIT2: This is the FIRST TIME you've missed a payment and been unable to make the minimum payment? That's ridiculous.. I had been unable to make minimum payments dozens of times when I finally decided to get out of debt and turn around. If this is the FIRST minimum payment you've been unable to make, then you're REALLY jumping the gun going to bankruptcy. You NEED to call a debt consolidation company. It sounds like things really aren't that bad.


------------------
Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1981 EZ-GO Xi875-A "Miami Dolphins" Medical Cart
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 11-15-2009).]

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: ...If this is the FIRST minimum payment you've been unable to make, then you're REALLY jumping the gun going to bankruptcy. You NEED to call a debt consolidation company. It sounds like things really aren't that bad.

I wasn't going to comment in this thread since I can't speak from experience, but I think I need to.

This is good advice. If you're not behind, this is an EXCELLENT time to consolidate your debts. They can possibly negotiate for you, and get your debt reduced.
(Reduced debt + possibly reduced interest = smaller minimum payments.)
The down side of this, is that if the creditors don't see any signs of distress, they are possibly not going to be as likely to negotiate.

Regarding the selling off of vehicles and the pool table, I tend to agree with Buddy. That stuff is worth very little to anyone except Buddy.
It won't make a significant dent in the big picture.

Just my take on it.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 11-15-2009).]

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: <SNIP>

Please go to your own thread to post your suggestions.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum6/HTML/069618.html

My first post was not asking how to get out of debt, my question was asking for the experience of other that have filed.

quote Originally posted by buddycraigg: Please go to your own thread to post your suggestions. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum6/HTML/069618.html My first post was not asking how to get out of debt, my question was asking for the experience of other that have filed.

I'm asking you again, where did I call you a name?

You're more concerned with keeping your toys while your children are dressed in rags.

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Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1981 EZ-GO Xi875-A "Miami Dolphins" Medical Cart
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

anyone else have any personal stories?

quote Originally posted by Raydar: This is good advice. If you're not behind, this is an EXCELLENT time to consolidate your debts. They can possibly negotiate for you, and get your debt reduced. (Reduced debt + possibly reduced interest = smaller minimum payments.)

I believe that is a chapter 13 bankruptcy, where you have the court tell your creditors how much you are going to pay them, for a certain period of time, and they eat the rest.

Sorry Buddy, I went off topic, the thread mutated. I do not think that you need to liquidate to get past what is going on. In my case of eliminating
debt, I cashed out about $16,000 from a 401K, figuring that I could then put all that I had towards the remaining debt
and actually get it all paid off in less than a year. If I could not get past the huge amount of debt and to where I was
actually paying the credit down, I very well might of been in this long float mode like you. I bought myself a great gun collection
with that debt but, when I realized that I was making a Mercedes 500 payment in just my interest payments, I was
pissed. I still have never bought a car on payments. Guns, apparently yes. Never willing carried debt monthly
except mortgage from then on.

Thank you maryjane for understanding the weight of the world on the shoulders and working on days when you really
hurt bad but, knew this is how I get there.

rodgergarrison, please do not miss understand, I think anyone that takes on running a business as their sole means of
support has the balls of a superhero.

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: So call a Debt Consolidation company, why is this so hard for you to understand??? Sell all your cars except your Grand Am and you'll have much of that paid off. You're not doing ANYTHING to help your son right now. You say it like the mistakes you made 6 years before your son was born are somehow not your fault, and that somehow you should be absolved of them? If you're not willing to make sacrifices, you're going to be in the exact same situation you are in now, a couple of years down the line...

IMO, this is the best advice given in this thread. Ironically, it has received the most criticism. It just proves the majority of people no longer man up and accept responsibility for their actions.

I know a guy who, over time, was over $150,000 in CC debt. He was finally only able to make the payments by borrowing from one to pay another. It became so bad he couldn't sleep, eat or--well his love life fell off, too. He filed bankruptcy and now lives on $2000 per month, which he can easily handle.

There was no fingerpointing, no recriminations by anybody who knew about it. (Obviously, he didn't post it on the bulletin board at the laundromat.)

He now lives within his means because he has no CCs. It's hard, if you are accustomed to living high on the hog, using OPM. But he does it. He learned a very valuable lesson, which, he says, he will never forget.

How are the families of the people he owed doing? I'm sure they are all thrilled that he is living well and none of his friends thought bad about him even though they are all out a combined $150 Gs.

It's like I have tried to point out... it doesn't just go away. Someone gets screwed. I guess the mentality of our nation anymore is 'as long as it's the other guy because I'm entitled'.

[This message has been edited by Songman (edited 11-17-2009).]

Anyone else have any personal stories related to it?

Yes I do. National debt, means the total debt held by the entire country, private (Joe citizen) and public (govt). I've personally watched it skyrocket in the last 20 yrs. I've personally had to pay much higher banking fees I shouldn't have had to if everyone managed their finances correctly. I've personally watched the buying power of the dollar I worked to earn, spiral downwards. I've persoanlly watched as people--good people-lost their jobs when the financial institutions they worked for went belly up. I've personally watched as the rest of the world began to look more and more in disdain upon this nation and it's people as we both individually and as a whole--became a debtor nation, without the will or means to repay our loans. I've personally watched both mine and millions of others' retirement portfolios and accounts become worth nearly nothing as financial institutions had to absorb more and more debt from defaulted home and CC loans. That's personal.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 11-17-2009).]

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Yes I do. National debt, means the total debt held by the entire country, private (Joe citizen) and public (govt). I've personally watched it skyrocket in the last 20 yrs. I've personally had to pay much higher banking fees I shouldn't have had to if everyone managed their finances correctly. I've personally watched the buying power of the dollar I worked to earn, spiral downwards. I've persoanlly watched as people--good people-lost their jobs when the financial institutions they worked for went belly up. I've personally watched as the rest of the world began to look more and more in disdain upon this nation and it's people as we both individually and as a whole--became a debtor nation, without the will or means to repay our loans. I've personally watched both mine and millions of others' retirement portfolios and accounts become worth nearly nothing as financial institutions had to absorb more and more debt from defaulted home and CC loans. That's personal.

Don't you think that effects me as well?

Oh wait. we voted Obama in.
Where's my bailout?

[This message has been edited by buddycraigg (edited 11-18-2009).]

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Anyone else have any personal stories related to it? Yes I do. National debt, means the total debt held by the entire country, private (Joe citizen) and public (govt). I've personally watched it skyrocket in the last 20 yrs. I've personally had to pay much higher banking fees I shouldn't have had to if everyone managed their finances correctly. I've personally watched the buying power of the dollar I worked to earn, spiral downwards. I've persoanlly watched as people--good people-lost their jobs when the financial institutions they worked for went belly up. I've personally watched as the rest of the world began to look more and more in disdain upon this nation and it's people as we both individually and as a whole--became a debtor nation, without the will or means to repay our loans. I've personally watched both mine and millions of others' retirement portfolios and accounts become worth nearly nothing as financial institutions had to absorb more and more debt from defaulted home and CC loans. That's personal.

What about the people that have worked hard all of their life and just get crapped on? What about the welder that spent 20 years perfecting his welding only to loose his job because it went over seas? Who was looking out for those guys? Not the Nation, they only wanted cheap goods and didn't care about quality. Time to pay the piper, you cant run a country based on service oriented jobs. With out a good industrial foundation our country will fail, when it does our children will have to rebuild. Gone are the days when it was enough to go to work and do a good job, we were sold out.

Yes Buddycraigg, it affects us all--each in our own personal way.

quote Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: What about the people that have worked hard all of their life and just get crapped on? What about the welder that spent 20 years perfecting his welding only to loose his job because it went over seas? Who was looking out for those guys? Not the Nation, they only wanted cheap goods and didn't care about quality. Time to pay the piper, you cant run a country based on service oriented jobs. With out a good industrial foundation our country will fail, when it does our children will have to rebuild. Gone are the days when it was enough to go to work and do a good job, we were sold out.

Not limited to industrial jobs. My Network Operations Technician job (the entire department) was moved to India. An important point to my job being
moved is that most of the engineering jobs have been filled by techs that showed they excelled in their understanding of networks and the equipment.
There is no place in the company that those skills can be built and be recognized any more. This not good for the country as a whole.
I was in the next pool of folks that could move up but,
my Dad was dying of cancer and it was killing my Mom taking care of him. I took the layoff instead of one of the positions that was clearly opened up
for the best of us. Over a year later, no real job(real job = pays near the median income for the area).

http://www.decheung.com/200...ta-clara-county.html

You may think, "wow, I should move there and make the big bucks". Lots of people move here and hate the attitude of many here and move away,
forget about the price of housing within commuting distance.

We're not talking about nations. Lots of people lose jobs. Lots of people have terrible circumstances to live with. We are talking about individuals not screwing over other people just because the system allows it. Some of the people here who have claimed bankruptcy have told of dire circumstances that were thrown on them. Others just went willy-nilly with credit cards. What about the guy who banrupted on $150k? Sounds like he just lived above his means for years. The guy said that "over time" he found himself $150k in debt.

Personal responsibility is what is being discussed here. We all get screwed over by the government. We all have to choose a career and hope we can get a good job in that career. That is just life. Screwing up in your own life and then screwing other people over by not fulfilling your part of the agreement is what we are talking about.

Buddy, I know I've been harsh on you... so in the not so wise words of the Trash Can "Well, I feel that this needs to get out there on here", I just want to say that I hope you make the right decision. Obviously, you know what "I" think the right decision is... but ultimately, I hope things work out for you in the end.

I would recommend that you consider also getting Quicken to help you manage your budget... regardless of what you decide to do... (before or after). It'll help you keep track of where your money is going.

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Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter