As you guys know, I just recently purchased an 84 cherokee...Now after fixing it up, I'm looking to trade it in on a 96 grand am GT with the 2.4l LD9. Question is, how good and reliable of a motor is this? I know it was in a lot of the saturns back in the day, or some form of it...

The Grand Am in question has 133k miles on it, and has the 4t60e with traction control built in...Got a good deal on it, and honestly think I'm better off with it over the cherokee (better on gas, automatic, etc. I hate 5 speed in the winter) Just wondering what kind of problems to expect. Only thing the car needs is a set of tires, possibly front brake pads and rotors (not sure yet til I get it on a set of jack stands) and a few minor lick and stick fixes inside (power mirror button is inside the door, power locks are iffy, and the glove box lock is busted).

All this for $1100

quote Originally posted by Xerces_Blackthorne: As you guys know, I just recently purchased an 84 cherokee...Now after fixing it up, I'm looking to trade it in on a 96 grand am GT with the 2.4l LD9. Question is, how good and reliable of a motor is this? I know it was in a lot of the saturns back in the day, or some form of it... The Grand Am in question has 133k miles on it, and has the 4t60e with traction control built in...Got a good deal on it, and honestly think I'm better off with it over the cherokee (better on gas, automatic, etc. I hate 5 speed in the winter) Just wondering what kind of problems to expect. Only thing the car needs is a set of tires, possibly front brake pads and rotors (not sure yet til I get it on a set of jack stands) and a few minor lick and stick fixes inside (power mirror button is inside the door, power locks are iffy, and the glove box lock is busted). All this for $1100

I've had two 1997 Grand Ams.... one was a 97 white SE which I bought used in 2000 w/ 30k miles, and was totalled (family member borrowed it) w/ 118k miles on it.

I never had any problems with it, and abused the hell out of it (although I maintained it and washed it every week)


I then bought a second one, a 97 Grand Am GT to replace it. I had it for only a year, and it broke down constantly. I bought it with 72k miles on it.

They were both 2.4 TwinCams with 4T60E transmissions.


The engine is awesome, and it's actually pretty quick... they'll usually run a low to mid 16 second in the quarter, and they don't handle too bad either... they're fairly nimble.

The 2.4 twincam with the 5-Speed in the Cavalier will actually run a low 15 second quarter mile according to Road & Track from several years ago. GM also offered a super charger add-on for it.


I think it's a good motor, but the waterpumps seem to be a cause for concern on them. The engine is the last revision of the old Quad-4. They're basically the same engine, just that the TwinCam has dual balancing shaft (like a Porsch 944 motor does).

I don't assume you're buying it for it's performance potential, so at least with respect to it being a daily driver, it's pretty good. It's a smooth running car and gets low 30s fuel economy on the highway.


As I said, some problem areas for these cars are the waterpump (a $700 dollar job because it requires near complete removal of the engine to replace it. The waterpump is powered by the timing chain.
Also, the catalytic converters on these are known to fail from time to time if you really beat on the car (they melt).


I think it's a great car, but the reliability was rather poor... it's kind of hit or miss. I had one that I would swear by... to this day the most reliable car I've ever owned. And then the other one I had, which was the exact same car, just w/ ground effects and a different color, was the most unreliable car I've ever owned...

So I don't know what to say... heh....








EDIT: man... those were the easiest wheels in the WORLD to wash... each wheel took literally 8-10 seconds.


------------------
Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1981 EZ-GO Xi875-A "Miami Dolphins" Medical Cart
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 11-10-2009).]

Were they 4T60E or 4T40/45E? Not that it matters. I thought they used the 45 with those engines. My son has a Cav and it has the 45. Good trans other than the shift B solenoid went out.

[This message has been edited by TK (edited 11-10-2009).]

Thanks T/A I'm getting it because I want something that I know how to work on (I know GM stuff better than Jeep) and for the fuel economy/fuel injection. I hate going out in the morning and pumping the gas pedal on the jeep when its cold to get it to start hehe

Only other reason I'm going with it is because I need something to get me around to and from school that I know will be more reliable (let the jeep be someone else's headache lol)...
The one I'm getting actually is the same as that black one you posted, but in green and 2 door...same rims and I love em (prolly end up getting another set for a Fiero in the future )

From what I've seen and felt of the car, its in solid condition and should last me up to about 200k miles with regular maintenance...The check oil light and the ABS light are on, but nothing a quick brake job and an oil change to some Castol won't fix

LD9 is a great engine, well it didnt come with more power out of the box then the quad four it is leaps and bounds better in overall quality, and will still accept all the go fast quad four parts.

You may want to check out some of the guys over at www.jbody.org for LD9 info theres a ton of them over 300hp over there and atleast one 500+

quote Originally posted by TK: Were they 4T60E or 4T40/45E? Not that it matters. I thought they used the 45 with those engines. My son has a Cav and it has the 45. Good trans other than the shift B solenoid went out.

1996-1998 models all came with teh 4T60E. I think even the 1995 model did too, but it wasn't OBD-II.

They only made this particular model for 3 years... it was just a revised version of the slightly older platform that they created in 1991 I believe.

quote Originally posted by Xerces_Blackthorne: Thanks T/A I'm getting it because I want something that I know how to work on (I know GM stuff better than Jeep) and for the fuel economy/fuel injection. I hate going out in the morning and pumping the gas pedal on the jeep when its cold to get it to start hehe Only other reason I'm going with it is because I need something to get me around to and from school that I know will be more reliable (let the jeep be someone else's headache lol)... The one I'm getting actually is the same as that black one you posted, but in green and 2 door...same rims and I love em (prolly end up getting another set for a Fiero in the future ) From what I've seen and felt of the car, its in solid condition and should last me up to about 200k miles with regular maintenance...The check oil light and the ABS light are on, but nothing a quick brake job and an oil change to some Castol won't fix

I'm a little concerned about the oil light being on, this isn't normal. I've never seen the oil light come on, even after the car was totalled. You should really look into this further.

I really did like my GrandAm. Even the black one was nice... I did like it. it was comfortable and fun to drive. It was pretty safe too... my family member was T-boned by an expedition doing 45mph, and wasn't hurt in the slightest. You can see the pictures of the damage by going to http://www.PontiacPerformance.net and click on Past Cars (and scroll down to teh white Grand Am).

I would really look into the oil light thing... make sure you don't have shot bearings or something.

I REALLY liked that motor too, by the way. When I went to the Daytona Fiero Show in 2000, there was a guy there who had a 1984 Fiero 2m4 with a 2.4 TwinCam installed and a 5-Speed getrag. He said he got 36 miles to the gallon on the way up at 75, and said he usually runs mid 14s in the quarter.


If / when the car dies... I would consider keeping that entire combo and dropping it in a Fiero...

------------------
Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1981 EZ-GO Xi875-A "Miami Dolphins" Medical Cart
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

Ok, thanks for clearing that up Todd. The 60 would be stout behind that engine.

I'm thinking the oil light is something simple, like a bad connection on the sending unit, or it needs a good change and a seafoam treatment...Could even be a short at the light, not sure yet. The car ran great when I test drove it, I beat the snot outta it a bit But she took my abuse and kept asking for more (that sounds dirty hehe)...Had great oil pressure, and started right up, even with a weak battery (hasn't been run in awhile, needs a good drive around town for an hour or so )

Now I can't wait to get it Gotta install my kenwood head unit and amp, with my 10" sub first thing...Will have a factory Pontiac CD player up in the mall soon after I do...would work great in a Fiero