Hey Twilight, I have NO idea what I just did in that reply to your post in the other thread. Sorry Cliff, NO idea what I did, but I think I broke it!!!
Anyway Twilight, I'm responding here to your question since you'll probably end up wanting to rebuild it. Honestly though, there's NOTHING wrong with your Oldsmobile 425 motor. Unless the block is bad, I would probably rebuild that first. You're only looking at a 30 cubic inch displacement difference, and the horsepower numbers will probably be negligible. I have an aftermarket nodular crank on my Olds 455, but many people say the original 425 crank is superior to the rest.
Anyway, this is what I wrote:
There were a few option packges for the Toronado. Horsepower ratings were between 375 and 400. With the W34 getting the 400 hp. All the H/O motors (including the W34 motor) were actually assembled outside of Oldsmobile, so they weren't subject to the horsepower per pound limit basically.
No, when I say just under 500hp, I'm being generous. Based on my build, I can expect anywhere from 430 to 480 horsepower depending on the types of headers I use, and how well the carburetor and timing is tuned.
If you're getting a 68 or 69 455 big block, regardless of it's original horsepower, what you'll want to look at are the CYL HEAD markings. You can pretty much expect that you'll get a pair of "C" heads. THESE were the superior cyl heads, and after 1970, I think they stopped making them. (Everything started to go down hill).
Your engine, unless it came out of a W40 or W34, or an H/O, won't have the large valves. However, the good news is that the castings are EXACTLY the same. The actual port sizes and the combustion chambers are all identical. It's the EXACT same head. Any competent machine shop should be able to install the larger valves, or even LARGER valves than what came on the H/O. I could be messing up a number somewhere, but pulling from memory, I believe the machine shop installed 2.07:1 intake, and 1.72:1 exhaust valves. As I said, that may be wrong, it's been a while since I oogled at the specs of the motor, but I know that I went with STOCK sized exhaust valves (for what would have been stock for an H/O) and went with intake valves EVER so slightly larger than what came on the H/O. For reverence... my engine came from a "full size" 1969 Oldsmobile. So that likely means a Delta-88 Regal or something. I had larger valves to match (and exceed) those of the H/O that came in the 68 Cutlass body.
Of course, you can always buy aftermarket Edelbrock cyl heads made of aluminum that'll easily exceed these specs. They're not too expensive either, but I preferred to keep everything mostly stock looking.
Now, the cam selection is also VERY important. I went with the recommended build specifications as outlined by Joe Mondello. You can visit his website by going to http://www.mondellotwister.com/
Joe Mondello is an old school race car driver. He was even featured last year on Horsepower TV where they did a buildup of a relatively stock Olds 455 big block
In the video, they use aluminum heads. I don't remember what kind of cam they used, but I recall that their build focused more on mid-range power rather than peak torque. (it's short on torque... only 550 something foot pounds)
When I built up my motor, I also used TRW forged pistons with a .030 overbore. This brings the motor to around ~468 cubic inches. You also have to be VERY careful when you have your motor rebuilt. I forget exactly what it is, but it has something to do with the gap between the piston rings and the cyl wall. There's some VERY specific gap that needs to be set, otherwise your engine will habitually overheat.
In the end, my engine came out roughly to 10.25:1 compression.
Another thing worth mentioning too if you plan on re-using your cast iron heads like I did. You'll need to have hardened valve seats installed in the exhaust ports. The reason for this is because these motors were built during a time when gasoline came with lead, and the lead would help lubricate the valves and prevent sticking. If you don't have hardened valve seats installed, your seats will "drop" (literally melt) within 30 some odd thousand miles.
I also used the Crane Gold Race Rockers (forget the actual name) with a 1.6:1 ratio.
Now the most important part of this of course is the camshaft. I went with one of Joe Mondello's cams. I think I got the 20-22 or the 22-25 (can't remember).
I also went with all the other stuff, MSD billet distributor, Cloyes double-roller timing chain, and a bunch of other odds and ends. I've got a rebuilt 1970 HO Toronado QuadraJet that's been roughly tuned (jetted) to my specs.
Keep in mind though, I haven't even broken in my motor (never run it). But those hp and torque numbers are based on what guys with nearly identical builds are getting on the Oldsmobile forums.
I blew a TON of cash on my motor though.... way more than I care to really lay out and count up on here. Suffice it to say, it was probably around $5,000 or more. I still have nothing to put it in... but I'm really looking forward one day to drop it in something.
"Engines 1964 - 1990 In the year 1964, Oldsmobile came out with a new small block (330 CID), and the next year a big block (400 and 425 CID). Over the years other displacements were added. The Olds 455 was a 1968 introduction, developed from the Olds 425 introduced in 1965, which was a tall-deck version of the 330 engine design introduced the previous year, both of which replaced the 394ci V-8, which was a development of the design introduced as the 1949 303ci "Rocket" V-8. Production of big blocks ceased in 1976, although some were used, not necessarily in cars, in the 1977 model year. Production of small blocks ceased in 1990.
The big and small block engine types are almost identical, with the big block having a higher deck than the small block. The bore centers are the same, since the only differences between the small-block and big-block Olds blocks are the deck height (9.33" and 10.625", respectively) and the main journal size (2.5" and 3.0"; diesel 350 used BB size mains, however).
Many internal parts interchange, but it is best to keep the big block parts on the big block and the same for the small block.
The engines were sometimes named, and this was printed on the air cleaner label or sticker. Mid 60's 425s were known as Super Rockets. Some featured Ultra High Compression on their labels.
Quick Identification The large oil fill tube on the front of the engine, sticking up from the timing chain area, is a dead giveaway that it is an Olds engine. The distributor is found at the back of the block and it does not go through the intake manifold, but right into the block. Also the spark plugs will be above the exhaust manifolds with no need for heat shields.
The Block Code and/or Head Code can give you an idea, but some codes cover many years. The casting number is ususally nearby. Other than that, there is no method of determining the year of manufacture of an Olds block. "
Hey Twilight, I have NO idea what I just did in that reply to your post in the other thread. Sorry Cliff, NO idea what I did, but I think I broke it!!!
Anyway Twilight, I'm responding here to your question since you'll probably end up wanting to rebuild it. Honestly though, there's NOTHING wrong with your Oldsmobile 425 motor. Unless the block is bad, I would probably rebuild that first. You're only looking at a 30 cubic inch displacement difference, and the horsepower numbers will probably be negligible. I have an aftermarket nodular crank on my Olds 455, but many people say the original 425 crank is superior to the rest.
I would heartily agree... I'd actually prefer to have the 425 myself, but the engine was swapped out before the car was left to rot, and it already has a 455 from a '68 Toro in it.
quote
Originally posted by 2.5: Quick Identification The large oil fill tube on the front of the engine, sticking up from the timing chain area, is a dead giveaway that it is an Olds engine. The distributor is found at the back of the block and it does not go through the intake manifold, but right into the block. Also the spark plugs will be above the exhaust manifolds with no need for heat shields.
The Block Code and/or Head Code can give you an idea, but some codes cover many years. The casting number is ususally nearby. Other than that, there is no method of determining the year of manufacture of an Olds block. "
Any idea where the block code on these things are? I know on my '305 I had to jack up the car and look way back on the back end of the motor... which, I don't have the capacity to do here... It'd be nice to know if it's from a W34... Though, I'm guessing it is, or the guy who did the swap wouldn't have bothered. As the normal output 455 actually had the same HP rating as the 425.
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11:17 AM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
Same site has this, might help? There is tons more info below this on the site
http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofblk.htm -- "Big Block Identification A big block measures 14" between the heads at the manifold base. Facing the front of the engine, at the top surface of the timing chain area, to the left of the oil fill tube, there is a code about 1.5" high followed by the casting number. A letter indicates a big block, a number indicates a small block. Big blocks have a little hump in that area, whereas the small blocks are flat the whole way across. ID/ Casting Code Year(s) CID Number Notes A '65 425 381917?? 1st year, big cars. 386525 B '65 400 389298 442 only, one year only. D '66 - '67 425 389244 Big-car engine. Toro is different internally. E '66 - '67 400 390925 442 engine [VERY rare]. F '68 - '70 455 396021 Common big block. Stick type F (sans serif). F '70 - '72 455 396021 Common big block. Serif type F. Two vertical and a base serif. Fa '72 - '76 455 396021 Very common big block. Marine also (L VIN derivative). G '68 - '69 400 396026 442/Vista/etc. engine. L '76 455 231788 Motorhome, marine and irrigation. GM made motorhomes from '73-8, maybe in all? Casting number appears as "231 [tiny 'L'] 788" on the block.
Look for the casting number and letter on the horizontal shelf right behind the water pump, just to the [driver's] right of the oil pressure sensor. The casting numbers are usually about ¾" - 1" tall, and the ID/Code is usually a bit larger, a little over an inch, and covered with schmutz. The most common block will be the standard 455: "396021 F" or "396021 Fa". The "a", as in Fa, is actually an upper case A, but about ¼ as big as the F, and subscript to the F [set lower]. Also, on the 231788L block, the "L" is the same size as most of the rest of the digits, whereas the numberal "7" is noticeably smaller.
400's were bronze in color, most 425's and early 455's (1968, 1969) were red, while Toronado 425's and later 455's were blue. However, since engine color may have been changed, use this as supporting evidence only.
1968-later V-8 Engine Have the last six digits of the VIN number, the year of the block, and the assembly plant stamped on the driver's side of the block below the cylinder head. A 2-letter code on the oil filler tube identified the engine.
You can use the VIN derivative number to ID the year. For 1968 and up blocks, this number is located on a pad just below the cylinder head on the front left side of the engine. This number will be stamped on a machined pad on the front driver's side of the block, just below the deck surface. Typically it will be covered with a power steering bracket or something, below the number one spark plug location.
This number should take the form of "35Mxxxxxx" where: 3 = Oldsmobile division. 5 = year of manufacture (8=68, 9=69, 0=70, ..., 4=74, 5=75, 6=76, etc.). M = location of manufacture (M = Lansing, B=Baltimore, X = Kansas City, Z = Fremont, CA, etc). xxxxxx = last six digits of VIN of car that motor originally came in (original car's sequential production number). "
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01:52 PM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 24124 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
Same site has this, might help? There is tons more info below this on the site
http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/ofblk.htm -- 1968-later V-8 Engine Have the last six digits of the VIN number, the year of the block, and the assembly plant stamped on the driver's side of the block below the cylinder head. A 2-letter code on the oil filler tube identified the engine.
Yeah, Olds Faq on 442.com is excellent. I used that site to get all my info when I was figuring out what kind of block I had too.
I can vouch for the VIN number too. You can see it right here in this picture. Look at the machined flat rectangular area (about 2 inches wide) at the very front, on the drivers side front of the cyl head (top). That's where the VIN is.
And here is some other stuff I took a picture of way back when:
Block Metallurgy Yes the nickel content is what makes the early Old's blocks, and Olds blocks in general, so strong. This is readily apparent if you use a rotary file on the block or heads. Low nickel engines (cheby is prime example) are very easy to take metal off while high nickel engines (like Olds) will take twice as long to remove the same amount of material. Prime example is when you machine the main caps for the strap and stud kit mine came out looking like a mirror (you could literally see your reflection!).
At the rear of the block behind flexplate, in the right upper area (cast on the rear face, under the flexplate area,) for an "F" code such as F0, F1, F2, F3, F4, ect. If the block is an early one, the F code will be fairly low.
This numbering and selection of lower is better generally applies to 455 block only. This is open to speculation, because this is the most I've heard on the subject. And yes, conventional wisdom holds that the lower the F-number, the better the block quality for hi-po use - for 455s, which were cast in the late 60s-early 70s period when reduce performance and fuel economy concerns resulted in lower nickel content and thinner walls later in the production run. I doubt this applies to 425s, for example, which were obviously all cast in the early to mid 60s, and would have high nickle content.
The F5/F6 on a 67 425 block is consistent with them being 67 blocks (1967 was the last year of 425 production - presumably 65 425 blocks would be F1 and F2 blocks, for example). The reason why this is not significant on the 425s is that apparently all year 425 blocks are the same with reguard to wall thickness and nickel content, so the "look for a lower F-number" was never an issue. The 455s, however, do vary in desireability with production year, so that's why you've only heard about the F-number in relation to those blocks.
For those seeking to build a really heavy-duty engine, rumor has it that the blocks with a "F", "F1", etc, up to, "F5" or "F6", are higher in nickel, and stronger. Rumor has it those blocks up to the "F2" are the most desireable. These are commonly 1967 to 1970 or so 425 or 455 blocks.
Thanks for the link 2.5! I'll take a look next time I get out there to take a look.. it's a good 20 miles away.
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
Yeah, Olds Faq on 442.com is excellent. I used that site to get all my info when I was figuring out what kind of block I had too.
I can vouch for the VIN number too. You can see it right here in this picture. Look at the machined flat rectangular area (about 2 inches wide) at the very front, on the drivers side front of the cyl head (top). That's where the VIN is.
Block Metallurgy Yes the nickel content is what makes the early Old's blocks, and Olds blocks in general, so strong. This is readily apparent if you use a rotary file on the block or heads. Low nickel engines (cheby is prime example) are very easy to take metal off while high nickel engines (like Olds) will take twice as long to remove the same amount of material. Prime example is when you machine the main caps for the strap and stud kit mine came out looking like a mirror (you could literally see your reflection!).
At the rear of the block behind flexplate, in the right upper area (cast on the rear face, under the flexplate area,) for an "F" code such as F0, F1, F2, F3, F4, ect. If the block is an early one, the F code will be fairly low.
This numbering and selection of lower is better generally applies to 455 block only. This is open to speculation, because this is the most I've heard on the subject. And yes, conventional wisdom holds that the lower the F-number, the better the block quality for hi-po use - for 455s, which were cast in the late 60s-early 70s period when reduce performance and fuel economy concerns resulted in lower nickel content and thinner walls later in the production run. I doubt this applies to 425s, for example, which were obviously all cast in the early to mid 60s, and would have high nickle content.
The F5/F6 on a 67 425 block is consistent with them being 67 blocks (1967 was the last year of 425 production - presumably 65 425 blocks would be F1 and F2 blocks, for example). The reason why this is not significant on the 425s is that apparently all year 425 blocks are the same with reguard to wall thickness and nickel content, so the "look for a lower F-number" was never an issue. The 455s, however, do vary in desireability with production year, so that's why you've only heard about the F-number in relation to those blocks.
For those seeking to build a really heavy-duty engine, rumor has it that the blocks with a "F", "F1", etc, up to, "F5" or "F6", are higher in nickel, and stronger. Rumor has it those blocks up to the "F2" are the most desireable. These are commonly 1967 to 1970 or so 425 or 455 blocks.
Hey, that's some really neat stuff to know... There's no way I'll be able to check the F-number without pulling the block out of the car though, they're still longitudely mounted despite the FWD of the Toro, so the back end of the engine is burried under the firewall.
Hey! I like those spark-plug-wire retainers! Were those factory? The one I'm looking at doesn't have them..
It was really crazy sunny out, so the pictures aren't the best...
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02:24 PM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 24124 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
Hey! I like those spark-plug-wire retainers! Were those factory? The one I'm looking at doesn't have them..
No, I more or less made them. Well, it's custom, I didn't really make anything.
I basically bought a set of factory sized chrome plated Oldsmobile big block valve covers.
I then bought a set of reproduction SMALL BLOCK OLDS wire looms from the 1950s Oldsmobile V8s. You can buy them from a place called "Shiney Hiney".
I then bought the Oldsmobile lettering. Painted the brackets black, stuck on the Oldsmobile lettering, and then tack-welded a pair of stainless steel bolts to the top of the valve cover. I then used ACORN nuts to bolt them down. It makes for a cleaner look. I need to get new plug boot ends though...
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: No, I more or less made them. Well, it's custom, I didn't really make anything.
I basically bought a set of factory sized chrome plated Oldsmobile big block valve covers.
I then bought a set of reproduction SMALL BLOCK OLDS wire looms from the 1950s Oldsmobile V8s. You can buy them from a place called "Shiney Hiney".
I then bought the Oldsmobile lettering. Painted the brackets black, stuck on the Oldsmobile lettering, and then tack-welded a pair of stainless steel bolts to the top of the valve cover. I then used ACORN nuts to bolt them down. It makes for a cleaner look. I need to get new plug boot ends though...
Where'd you put the valve-cover breather? Or, did you just eliminate it? What about the EGR?
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04:49 PM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 24124 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
Hah... I actually covered the breather. I haven't yet figured out what I'll do, but more than likely, I'm still figuring that one out...
There is no EGR on these motors. "C" heads don't even have a provision for EGR.
There is an exhaust "cross-over" that's used to heat the intake manifold... but with most intakes, you simply block that off.
I don't think they started installing EGR until like... wht, 1972 or 1973???
Could tap it into the wire retainers you made... they look like they're hallow... Then tap it out on the rear-ward end just behind your little bolts, and go from there to the carb like normal.
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05:27 PM
Apr 1st, 2010
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 24124 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
Could tap it into the wire retainers you made... they look like they're hallow... Then tap it out on the rear-ward end just behind your little bolts, and go from there to the carb like normal.
Yeah, that's not a bad idea, the only thing though is that the wire loom retainers aren't sealed. So... it's bolted to the top of the valve cover, but that's about it. I would need to seal around the entire thing. I'm thinking what I may do is make a hole somewhere else and install a smaller breather element. Not sure exactly how I'll do it. Another option of course is to create a DUAL breather element from BOTH sides. I've seen this done before. I make a hole at the back of each valve cover. I then take some sort of vacuum line (something stiff, like a fuel line) and run a vacuum hose to a T-fitting which then also connects from another vacuum line to the other valve cover. At the end of the T-fitting, I install a breather element. Either that, or I could just add a small breather element on either valve cover directly on it (something small).
Then, with whatever intake I end up using (if I decide against using this Toro intake), I drill a hole in the bottom (between the runners) and attach my PCV filter and valve right on the intake manifold (understanding of course that I wouldn't be protruding into an intake port, it would simply be going between the intake runners and protruding into the valve train area). So, if you weren't sure exactly what this is all for (ignore this if you alreayd know, but just figured I would mention it), the PCV system is meant for two specific things that I know of:
1 - Relieve crankcase pressure (so you don't blow out seals and gaskets) 2 - Properly extract "blow-by" so as to prevent engine smoking.
Based on what you told me was wrong with your engine, I would suspect that it was perhaps over-revved. That's usually the cause of a bent pushrod (although I've never personally experienced this). My Olds 455 big block ALSO had a couple of slightly bent pushrods as well. As I understand it though, it still ran prior to me getting it. But it looked like this (see below). When they rebuilt the motor, they didn't say anything about any damage, and the bearings were still good and I re-used my existing connecting rods (they are ALL forged from the factory in the Olds 455).
If you can... and you do know that the engine was rebuild ~25-30k miles prior to going in there, then I would just give the engine a good cleaning, soak the combustion chambers so you can break free the pistons, and then simply replace the valve train components. I'd suggest just swapping out the lifters, pushrods, etc... but you pretty much want to do the cam too. The cam bearings should be fine.
If it were my engine... I would try to get it running first without doing anything else.
I would clean it, replace the bent pushrod, put a little bit of oil in the combustion chambers to let it soak for a few days, set the valve lash, and try to get it started (after replacing the fuel tank of course, which you can also buy).
Then, if it ran well, and there was no knocking or anything of the sort, then you'd know that the bottom end is really solid. After all the oil in the combustion chamber burned off too... then you'd know if the rings were good too.
Once it runs, then I woudl focus on OTHER stuff in the car... trying to get it driving safely. I would re-do the brakes, the suspension, and steering components. All of these components are fairly inexpensive and almost all of this stuff can be bought from your local auto parts store too.
Only when everything else is done would I bother to hop up the engine. But assuming it ran well, I would probably swap out the CAM, pushrods, lifters, and rocker arms. All of that can be done with the motor in the car. Honestly, if the bottom end of the 455 is fine, then you won't see ANY benefit by rebuilding it.
This is what my motor looked like when I picked it up: it definitely had a rough life. It looks like it sprung an oil leak from somewhere at some point, and they just continued to drive it like that. The entire thing was soaked with caked on oil... almost 1/4 inch thick.
Without all that oil caked on, the motor looked a LOT smaller after I picked it up from the machine shop:
Ah! PCV valve! That's what I meant in my last post, not an EGR... I knew EGR was wrong, but it was the only thing 3-letter thing I could think of at the time.
Hahaha, well of course it looked smaller, it doesn't have the transmission on the back anymore :P Naw, j/k.
Anywho, what I was told is, he re-built the engine, then tried to turn the key... it turned over, but didn't start, then the turning got slower, and slower untill it completely stopped. He burned out the starter. Figuring it was just the starter, he put a new starter on and tried again, but still wouldn't start. Did some checking and figured it was the push-rods... then it was left to sit for some reason... So, the engine was rebuilt, but never run.
Is that how you loosen a siezed engine? Pouring a little oil into the cylindars? I'm guessing to get some into each one you pull the spark-plugs and add a bit to each one? I like to run synthetic in all of my motors, but would synth or dino be better for freeing the pistons? (guessing synth)
What I was worried about, was the gaskets... It's been sitting there for 12 years... wont alot, if not all, of the gaskets be almost completely shot? The automatic transmission too... But, it would be nice to get proof-of-life before I sink alot of time into rebuilding the motor. So, you've definitely got a very good point.
The entire car won't be on the road for at least a couple years... EVERYTHING has to be torn down, rebuilt. All rubber has to be replaced, the front drum brakes have GOT to go, as I understand, the Toronado's brakes don't so much stop the car, as politely suggest it consider slowing down. And, if the trunk is any indicator, there is nothing left of the floorboards, as well as some potential frame-rot... But, I won't know untill I can get a jack under it and take a look at what's beneath... And, I STILL haven't heard weather I can actually buy it yet or not... *grumble*
[This message has been edited by Twilight Fenrir (edited 04-01-2010).]
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11:43 AM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 24124 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
Ah! PCV valve! That's what I meant in my last post, not an EGR... I knew EGR was wrong, but it was the only thing 3-letter thing I could think of at the time.
Hahaha, well of course it looked smaller, it doesn't have the transmission on the back anymore :P Naw, j/k.
Anywho, what I was told is, he re-built the engine, then tried to turn the key... it turned over, but didn't start, then the turning got slower, and slower untill it completely stopped. He burned out the starter. Figuring it was just the starter, he put a new starter on and tried again, but still wouldn't start. Did some checking and figured it was the push-rods... then it was left to sit for some reason... So, the engine was rebuilt, but never run.
Is that how you loosen a siezed engine? Pouring a little oil into the cylindars? I'm guessing to get some into each one you pull the spark-plugs and add a bit to each one? I like to run synthetic in all of my motors, but would synth or dino be better for freeing the pistons? (guessing synth)
What I was worried about, was the gaskets... It's been sitting there for 12 years... wont alot, if not all, of the gaskets be almost completely shot? The automatic transmission too... But, it would be nice to get proof-of-life before I sink alot of time into rebuilding the motor. So, you've definitely got a very good point.
The entire car won't be on the road for at least a couple years... EVERYTHING has to be torn down, rebuilt. All rubber has to be replaced, the front drum brakes have GOT to go, as I understand, the Toronado's brakes don't so much stop the car, as politely suggest it consider slowing down. And, if the trunk is any indicator, there is nothing left of the floorboards, as well as some potential frame-rot... But, I won't know untill I can get a jack under it and take a look at what's beneath... And, I STILL haven't heard weather I can actually buy it yet or not... *grumble*
It's certainly a very pretty car, that's for sure....
That's very strange what you say about the motor. I've never heard anything like that before. I can't even conceive of what would cause a motor to slowly seize up like that???
Not even sure how I would suggest proceeding really. I guess you could just swap out the push rods and try to start it.
yeah, remove the spark plugs, put REGULAR oil in there (no point in using synthetic, it won't hurt or help) and then let it sit for a few days and try to start it.
You could also try using Marvel Mystery oil in the combustion chambers.
I would defintiely change the oil though before you start it. You WANT to use regular oil though, NOT synthetic. Maybe even put in some break-in additive. Also change the oil filter too.
I guess the first thing would be trying to get the car. Check the prices though so you don't get taken...
I'm seriously considering now maybe even getting one myself too. I've got that awesome motor sitting in my garage with nothing to put it in... and the Th-425 was literally built using tank track technology... it's bulletproof.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: It's certainly a very pretty car, that's for sure....
That's very strange what you say about the motor. I've never heard anything like that before. I can't even conceive of what would cause a motor to slowly seize up like that???
Not even sure how I would suggest proceeding really. I guess you could just swap out the push rods and try to start it.
yeah, remove the spark plugs, put REGULAR oil in there (no point in using synthetic, it won't hurt or help) and then let it sit for a few days and try to start it.
You could also try using Marvel Mystery oil in the combustion chambers.
I would defintiely change the oil though before you start it. You WANT to use regular oil though, NOT synthetic. Maybe even put in some break-in additive. Also change the oil filter too.
I guess the first thing would be trying to get the car. Check the prices though so you don't get taken...
I'm seriously considering now maybe even getting one myself too. I've got that awesome motor sitting in my garage with nothing to put it in... and the Th-425 was literally built using tank track technology... it's bulletproof.
EXACTLY! It's a beautiful car! If he'll sell it to me, I'll be getting it for $500... so, I can't loose... even if the car is completely shot (Which it's not) The engine block alone is worth that much... And, if the block is shot, the transmission is probably worth close to that too. Plus there are ALOT of good parts on it, that could go on eBay if I absolutely had to... But, anything can be fixed with enough time and effort.... If the frame is rotted I can repair it, or make a new one.
Yeah, I don't really get it either... but, if it the rod got jammed in there, it could stop the camshaft? Which would inhibit the block crank... As I understand, after he put the new starter in the engine still turned over, just wouldn't start. Sadly, I wasn't able to pay too much attention to him as he explained due to the circumstances of the conversation... maybe it was a piston-rod... but, I'm almost certain he said it was a valve push-rod.
If the exhaust valve was stuck, it would suck air in, but not let it out.. so when more fuel was added to the already burnt air, then the piston compressed it wouldn't ignite, so the engine wouldn't start... Maybe he just cranked the key too long and burnt out the starter... the original starter is actually sitting in the back seat. It looks like it's the ORIGINAL starter, from the 60's :P
Either way, I'm not terribly concerned actually... I'm more interested in the car, than the engine. Which is why I was very disapointed when he told me it had a 455 instead of the stock 425... but, it actually works out better for me, as the '66 transmission took half-axles that were unique to its year, and are extremely rare... the '67+ all have a much more readily available half-axle, so the '68 transmission actually works out to be a blessing.
Right, I've heard that you run dino-oil when you're breaking in an engine from a rebuild... but, I do want to run synth afterwards... If I recall... you're supposed to allow 10K miles for break-in before switching to synth?
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01:17 PM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
Siezed? Well, a bent pushrod will cause it not to be able to turn over, sitting outsiode in weahter can cause some corrosion between the postion rings and the cylinder walls. But I wouldn't call is siezed until you get it apart and see whats inside . Siexed to me means overheated and cylinders are now joined to the cylinder walls or rod blew or bearing melted and is now solid .
What you want to do it take the spark pulgs out and spray a generous amount of Liquid wrench, or other spray lube into the cylinders, or you can use thin oil, but a spray can will coat every areas in the cylinder better. Put the plugs back in just to keep debris out. The longer that sits and soaks the better. Could do it a few times. Then take eth plugs out so there is no compression and try and turn it over by hand, you can use a socket that fits over the nut that holds the (bottom) crank pully on and a breaker bar. If it doesn't want to go try the other direction, if it is still realy tough spray more lube in the cylinders.
Siezed? Well, a bent pushrod will cause it not to be able to turn over, sitting outsiode in weahter can cause some corrosion between the postion rings and the cylinder walls. But I wouldn't call is siezed until you get it apart and see whats inside . Siexed to me means overheated and cylinders are now joined to the cylinder walls or rod blew or bearing melted and is now solid .
What you want to do it take the spark pulgs out and spray a generous amount of Liquid wrench, or other spray lube into the cylinders, or you can use thin oil, but a spray can will coat every areas in the cylinder better. Put the plugs back in just to keep debris out. The longer that sits and soaks the better. Could do it a few times. Then take eth plugs out so there is no compression and try and turn it over by hand, you can use a socket that fits over the nut that holds the (bottom) crank pully on and a breaker bar. If it doesn't want to go try the other direction, if it is still realy tough spray more lube in the cylinders.
Ah, see, my definition of Siezed is doesn't turn :P For instance, the axles on that car are certainly siezed :P Neat idea about the spray... I've always loved my PB buster, as it will actually soak through metal if you let it sit long enough... but, mightn't that screw up the ignition?
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01:36 PM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
Ah, see, my definition of Siezed is doesn't turn :P For instance, the axles on that car are certainly siezed :P Neat idea about the spray... I've always loved my PB buster, as it will actually soak through metal if you let it sit long enough... but, mightn't that screw up the ignition?
PB is weird, I would stuck to something less "harsh" for internal components like this.
Just talked to the guy who I've been dealing with... (not the owner, but the owners brother-in-law) And he's pretty sure the car will be mine. He's gonna give a call in a while and try and find out if he's made up his mind yet or not... God I hate waiting on things like this!
I'm very patient when it comes to waiting for something I KNOW, but when I don't know, it just twists up my insides waiting XD
Looks like I'm looking at about $275 to get her towed from there to a mini-storage where I can at least get its wheels to turn. (Hopefully) Storage should run another $70 a month... (Should only need it one month... then I'll have to move the car again...)
[This message has been edited by Twilight Fenrir (edited 04-01-2010).]
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