So I'm thinking of adding a pony car to the stable along side the Fiero by the end of the year.

Probably going to be a thrid generation (1982-1992) V8 Camaro/Firebird.

Any advice on what to look for as far as known issues (specific rust problems - body/frame/etc., mechanical known issues, etc.)?

There are lots of them on Craigslist here. I've had second generation cars in the past but never a third generation.

Thanks all!

Take a drive, south of us. Hit below the mason Dixon line, visit Cliff or Don in Texas or anyone else south of us.

The things will be rusty unless garaged over our northern winters. Salt raises hell with those body panels.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

I don't mind a little rust, I have a welder and have replaced panels before. Major rust though is another problem. I remember gen II cars rusted basly especially around the rear subframe.

I've heard the 700R4 trans in these cars (Gen III) can be a PIA. Anyone have experience with the trans?

What about the fuel injection systems as well. Is the TPI system any good?

quote Originally posted by tutnkmn: So I'm thinking of adding a pony car to the stable along side the Fiero by the end of the year. Probably going to be a thrid generation (1982-1992) V8 Camaro/Firebird. Any advice on what to look for as far as known issues (specific rust problems - body/frame/etc., mechanical known issues, etc.)? There are lots of them on Craigslist here. I've had second generation cars in the past but never a third generation. Thanks all!

These are pretty much the basics for what you can expect in a 3rd gen today...

1 - Unless you own a Turbo GTA or a 92 Firehawk, they are all slow. Even the fairly rare 5.7 liter Z28 IROC will run at best high 14s in good tune.

2 - There is no real area that's more suseptible to rust except the area where the rear hatch attaches to the roof. This might be different for the cars located in the snow belt though.

3 - They are pretty durable, and handle MUCH better than the 2nd gens. There's a lot of upgraded parts available for them, including 4-wheel disc and better rear-ends, although I think you're stuck with the basic rear-end unless you go with something custom.

4 - They do REALLY well with an LS motor in them. They'll be lighter, handle better... etc...


Basically, I guess my point is, depending on what you're looking for, unless you want something that just "gets around" you'll probably want to swap out the motor and transmission to make it more real-world. With that said... you can pretty much buy whatever body style suits your interests the most. Me personally, I really like the 82-83 TransAm body style the most. I think it was an excellent transition from the big heavily styled 1979-1981 TransAm with the flares, to the more 80s space-aged styling of the 3rd gen. If you look at the 82-83 model years, it's basicaly a very clean, very angular body style. It does NOT have ground effects (those didn't arrive until 84), but it does have slight wheel flares which are somewhat reminiscent of the 79-81 style. I think they look awesome, and I had one myself. I had an 82 LU5, I also had an 81 TransAm as well.

quote Originally posted by tutnkmn: I don't mind a little rust, I have a welder and have replaced panels before. Major rust though is another problem. I remember gen II cars rusted basly especially around the rear subframe. I've heard the 700R4 trans in these cars (Gen III) can be a PIA. Anyone have experience with the trans? What about the fuel injection systems as well. Is the TPI system any good?

EDIT to answer your other questions.

The 700R4 transmission is an EXCELLENT transmission. It was a HUGE improvement when they started putting them in the cars I think in... what, 1985? It's basically equivelant to say... teh 4T60. It's not computer controlled, although TCC and that stuff if I rememer are solenoid controlled (not vacuum controlled). The TPI motors are basically no different than the Fiero's 2.8 engine and suffers from all the same issues. That said of course, it's a bit more durable of a motor in the rotating assembly. To improve the TPI motors... you'd be doing the same thing you would otherwise do on a 2.8 Fiero. Specifically, the intake is built for low-end torque, and really drops off around 5,000 rpms.

This can ALL be improved, but unless you're looking to get more power out of a car you want to keep mostly original, then I would suggest saving your money and looking for a complete LT1 or an LS motor. For the most part, they'll all drop right in. Wiring shouldn't be so difficult, but setting up the gauges will be the hardest part.

Stay away from the cars with the LG4 on them though. They were sold (in teh 3rd gen) from 82 through 87. It's basically a computer controlled carburetor setup. They made 145hp in 82 and grew to 175hp in 87. They are pretty anemic, have absolutely HORRIBLE camshafts, and the heads aren't so awesome either.

You can get a complete LG4 upgrade kit from Edelbrock for about $1,400 bucks... but the best you can hope to get from it is high 14s.


One thing I don't like though, which is different than the 2nd gen that you might be used to... is that the body contours under the car are channeled for a single exhaust system... a Y-pipe... so if you wanted to actually go with true duals with an H-pipe... it's much more difficult... kinda sucks because it was a big departure from the mentality of the 2nd gen...
------------------
Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 05-21-2010).]

My buddies got a 90 forumula and with the stock 305 that thing blew ass if a mini van can beat what he called the almighty firebird it sucks. Now he is rocking new rear end suspension and a pretty decent 383 on prob is its a automatic best pass to date is a 12.94. I dont know bout were you guys live but around the quad cities 3rd gens are rather trashy cars expecially since every trailer park you go to has atleast one thats beat to hell. No offense anyone.

------------------
93 dodge stealth es-rip
95 eagle talon tsi- 5spd conversion, fidanza flywheel and 6 puck clutch, short throw shifter, ported 2g manifold, evo 3 o2 housing, 3" tanabe blue tbe, 18" rpm mesh wheels, prothane bushings all around, solid motor mounts, super 16g turbo, turbo xs dual stage boost controler( 15 then 30psi), rc 550cc injectors, dsm link, obx fmic with short route 3" hard piping, 3" intake ect...
95 grand prix- rip
2001 chevy impala- sold
2- 95 vw mk3 golfs gold 4door with 16" tenzo wheels tokico struts megan racing lowering springs 2" drop, greddy exhaust, cam, intake. black 2 door parts car with race tranny.
Fiero coming soon?

The third gen Camaro and Firebird are great cars but again look for rust. Areas prone to it are the spare tire well and it's twin on the other side. Also open the doors on both sides and look at the welds swams in the lower rear corner. they might be cracked as that is the weak point on the unit body. Try and find a car with the Borg Warner (Austrailian) 9 bolt rear. It has the disk brakes in the rear from the factory. If T-tops are a must look at the head-liner and smell the car...if it smells musty but the headliner is intact check the seals..it has been leaking. If the seals look good then look at the black cross-bar on the top and check the screws that hold it in place; if they are rusted that is the source of the leak. GM used a foam seal to seal those screws in and when it rots away the water just runs in the screw holes. Don't hold to the story that hard tops are stronget than t-tops because it's just not true. The metal that the tops are made of is just sheet metal and ALL of the third gens only have a single center bar that attached the windshield bracing to the rear bracing of the roof.

As for the 700R4 my best advice is to stay to the 87 and up 3rd gens as the last and best improvements to the 700r4 were made. (the next improvements were when they changed the name to 4L60 which if you can find a non-E version can be a direct swap). Last thing on the transmissions. If you want to upgrade to a later model say a 4L60E with a stand alone controller you can but...you have to have a Camaro or Firebird model as the engines in these cars is cocked towards the passenger side slightly...15 degrees if I remember corectly.

Any questions PM me. I have owned and modified 4 of these cars.

Shelby

one thing after owning one in the north east is rust on floor pans. I know of at least three personly that had floor pans rotted out. It is very common in the snow belt. Mine was totaled out when it got tapped in the rear about 25mph. The hit combined with t-tops and week floor pans actually tweaked the frame. Also on t-top cars look behind the door in the b pillar area on the body. If the cars where driven hard you can see hairline cracks right in the area around the top and the back of the door their. If i had the choice to get another i would do it in a heart beat. I had a 305 it was slow as crap but dam that car was fun, top end was realllllllllly nice. I could do 100+ with ease after it hit 50 mph she took off.

Wow! Thanks a lot guys! +s all round!

I own a 1984 Z28. It is a 305 LG4 engine, (the most common engine) but there are some simple things you can do to wake it up. The factory CCC carb setup isn't as bad as its reputation seems to be (if you know how to adjust it). The L69 305 HO (83-86) is not a bad performer as cars from the 80's go. You could also get a dual-throttle body fuel-injected 305 LU5 in 82-83 but were somewhat problematic. The preferred engine would be the L98 5.7 (350) TPI engine but it is also the most scarce. Performance varies wildly due in part to the multitude of rear gear ratio options. My Z has a 3.23 ratio which is about the lowest (numerically) you want to go.

A buddy of mine owned a 1982 3rd gen with a 305 LG4 3-speed 200C A/T and a 2.73 rear gear - it was a dog. The 700R4 was introduced in the Camaro in 1983, and as was mentioned in an earlier post the 700R4 was improved in 1987.

3rd gens are one of the more commonly molested cars by previous teen owners - finding a nice stock one is getting a bit more difficult.

My 84 Z gets in the mid-teens City / mid-20's Hwy for MPG.

Check out http://www.thirdgen.org for loads of info.

I also own a '92 Corvette and stock for stock, I know my Z28 can out-handle the Vette.

[This message has been edited by FrugalFiero (edited 05-21-2010).]

If you can get a later 3rd gen like a 90-92. They are better cars. Less rattles and less rust. Also 350 power but only with a auto (305 could be had with a 5-speed). 92 GTA, green with tan/saddle leather was one of the best looking of then all. Don't expect lots of performance until you mod it. Better exhaust and head/cam packages do WONDERS. Don't settle for just any old car. There are lower milage ones that can still be had. If I was in the market I would look to spent 10k. Their loss is your gain.


Vinny


Yes I know you can get a 350 in 85.

quote Originally posted by vinny: Yes I know you can get a 350 in 85.

Actually no you couldn't...the 350 did not appear in the third gen Camaro/Firebird until the 87 model year. There are rumors but no documentation exists even from GM that the 350 was available until 87.

Now if I was to have the money and the drive I would wait until I found either a 1LE or a B4C car. The 1LE was a factory SCCA racer that could be bought off the showroom floor and was street legal. This option along with C41, would also net you bigger brakes with PBR aluminum calipers and larger 11.4 inch rear disc brakes with matching aluminum PBR calipers. Also included in the 1LE option was a special fuel tank with increased baffling for reduced fuel starvation in the corners. You also ended up with a specially balanced aluminum driveshaft that decreased reciprocating weight in the driveline considerable. Special shocks, struts and srpings were also included with the 1LE package, and in '89, a new dual cat converter exhaust system also became standard on the 1LE's adding another 10 horses to the TPI engine. Something you couldn't benefit from were any of the many convenience items. About the only choice you had when ordering a 1LE car was exterior color and license plate bracketry. This was GM's way of discouraging average people from buying these cars. The result was low double digit numbers for these cars, in every year of production for the third generation. (good luck as these cars bring top dollar and about as rare as the hemi Cuda Convertables). The Chevrolet Camaro B4C is a Chevrolet Camaro equipped with a "Special Service" police package, also known as B4C Special Equipment Options code. The package was offered on the Camaro between 1991 and 1992 (but carried over to the 4th gen). The B4C package has heavier-duty features over a standard Camaro as well as some options specific to the installation of police equipment. The Chevrolet Camaro B4C option has been available since 1991 when it was introduced. The 1992 version of the Camaro B4C (Special Service Package) got the addition of 1LE brakes and suspension, making it the best performing third generation Camaro available with air conditioning. You could buy this car off the showroom as well

They can be had but you are going to pay for them but they are SO worth it (I drove an 11,000 mile B4C and it was awesome that had never been a police vehicle and it was a blast and did every bit of 160 mph)

Shelby

I don't know if it's been said but, my parents 89 had problems with paint delam. When they took it to the dealer to have it fixed they were informed that it was a common problem.

Why not go for a 4th gen "bird"
Here is a pic of a '94 I used to own.
One of the most amazing cars I have ever had:

Had a few Third gens, TPI is good for stock motor, lose it when you start hunting horsepower.

People used to convert LT4 intakes, but a better choice was the Holley stealth ram, it wasn't all that bad on price if you used the TPI conversion version, instead of the stand alone.
http://www.holley.com/91403201.asp

An LS motor is hands down a better choice for this type of car.

quote Originally posted by Fiero5: Why not go for a 4th gen "bird" Here is a pic of a '94 I used to own. One of the most amazing cars I have ever had:

Oh, I love those as well (4th gen)!

Kinda in the 80s nostalgia mode though. I know 3rd gens are not fast by today's standard. Back in the 80s though (after the great doldrums of performance in the 70s we HAD to live through thanks to the GOVERNMENT) we thought the 200-ish hp enginges were screamers. I'm no kid anymore (sadly) so I don't need the fastest car on the road (I do own a Fiero afterall LOL). Just gonna find a nice touring F body with some get and go.

Not having had personal experience with the 3rd gen cars I really appreciate all the input. Again +s all round for the advice. You guys rock!

If you're interested in a mid 80s T/A Convertible, I know where one is. Less than 25,000 miles as I remember. Triple white, white paint, white leather interior, white convertible top. 350 auto. Very clean, no rust, always garaged. Beautiful car. Belongs to my brother in law. If things were different financially, I'd be buying it myself. I rather this car be sold than for me to keep drooling over it every time I visit him. Car is located near KC, KS.
I'll see if I can get pictures for someone to post.

Ron

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 05-22-2010).]

quote Originally posted by tutnkmn: A picture of the IROC in question:

Had one new with the 305 it went as my dad would say,

“Goes like Like a raped ape”

For the time it was made.

Nice find if there is no rust take it and run.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 05-22-2010).]

I had an 84 Trans Am, loaded up. It is the only car I really miss. I liked it more than my Fiero by a bunch. The thing handled very well at high speed. It cornered well, and the 305 in it was, as described, not a barn burner.

It was pretty much a Pontiac Parisienne if you are looking for parts. But, it was a personal fav for me. The T tops were really nice in the summer. (be sure to lock them)

When I saw it a few years later, the rust was showing on the doors, the quarter panels and I expect it rusted to death at some point.

If I had the room and the bucks to collect, I'd have one in the garage, but with a bigger engine.

Arn

Looks like a good car. Be aware though if you have to change the fuel pump and it's a Fuel Injected (TPI) car it's not as easy as it sounds. You will have to drop the tank which means dropping the rear diferential. However once it is out alot of people have cut the trunk floor where the pump/sending unit sits and made an access door for easier removal. Not trying to scare you away just wanted you aware that it's not as easy as it sounds.

Shelby

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: I had an 84 Trans Am, loaded up. It is the only car I really miss. I liked it more than my Fiero by a bunch. The thing handled very well at high speed. It cornered well, and the 305 in it was, as described, not a barn burner.

Couldn't agree more.

Back in the day you could get a Z28 / IROC / Trans Am for the same price as a Fiero. Totally a no-brainer that the F-body would be the one I would buy.

[This message has been edited by FrugalFiero (edited 05-22-2010).]

I had an 87 IROC that i got new when i was working for GM. Miss that thing. I tried to flip it out on the interstate one day, as a spare tire came off a semi right in front of me and i hit it head on. Went airborne.. wasn't a fun day.

Had just paid the stupid thing off, but isn't that typical?

I may be crazy, but I want an early Camaro or Firebird with the 2.5L Iron Duke engine. I'd bring it to shows, pop the hood, and wait for weird comments. You think people have weird opinions about Fieros? I'd imagine a 4-cyl. F-body would really bring out the haters LOL.

quote Originally posted by css9450: I may be crazy, but I want an early Camaro or Firebird with the 2.5L Iron Duke engine. I'd bring it to shows, pop the hood, and wait for weird comments. You think people have weird opinions about Fieros? I'd imagine a 4-cyl. F-body would really bring out the haters LOL.

When i bought my iroc they had one on the lot with a 4cyl, 4speed manual transmission, manual windows, no AC, not even tilt steering...

quote Originally posted by User00013170: When i bought my iroc they had one on the lot with a 4cyl, 4speed manual transmission, manual windows, no AC, not even tilt steering...

If the body and frame were rust-free, it wold make a good starting point. I still miss my 84 sometimes. Black. T-tops. Tan recarro interior. 5 speed.

Shame the back seat was useless for anything besides looking at.

I was going to post about ALLTRBO's Camaro, until I remembered it was sold.

The 85 IROC that you found looks really good, especially for $1200.

I used to have an 88 Firebird Formula with the throttle body 305, 5 speed and T-tops.
It wasn't really fast, but it would at least get out of its own way.
Regardless, it was really a fun car to drive. It would even spin the 245/50-16s.
Never had any real problems with it, other than the usual shitty 80s GM paint, and the Centerforce clutch that I put in was unbalanced and vibrated like a b!tch.
I never thought the build quality was that great, however. The WS6 suspension and the T-tops made for lots of squeaks and rattles.

quote Originally posted by css9450: I may be crazy, but I want an early Camaro or Firebird with the 2.5L Iron Duke engine. I'd bring it to shows, pop the hood, and wait for weird comments. You think people have weird opinions about Fieros? I'd imagine a 4-cyl. F-body would really bring out the haters LOL.

A 4 cylinder F-body wouldn't pull a greasy string out of a cat's butt.

There.

I actually saw one for sale, once. Also had a 4 speed.
I didn't bother taking a test drive.

Although an SD4 would surprise a few people.

quote [B] A 4 cylinder F-body wouldn't pull a greasy string out of a cat's butt.

Gor.....You're right about that! I had a friend with a 4 banger Camaro. What a total waste of a car. Slower than a 4 cyl Mustang.

quote Originally posted by css9450: I may be crazy, but I want an early Camaro or Firebird with the 2.5L Iron Duke engine. I'd bring it to shows, pop the hood, and wait for weird comments. You think people have weird opinions about Fieros? I'd imagine a 4-cyl. F-body would really bring out the haters LOL.

I had one, it was giving a new meaning to the term "total dog." The only way that thing could be worse is if it had come with front wheel drive. I thought some days if you ran over a pebble the car would stop like a walmart shopping cart does. LOL

The options: Dealer A/C to choke the performance even furthur, AM radio, vinyl seats, manual wipers (no intermittent feature) and an annoying rattle in the a$$ end the dealer never did find. It went to the salvage yard, and I never looked back at it.

Well, it wasnt a total dog, at least it had T-tops.

It died with 69,000 miles on the clock. lol

[This message has been edited by htexans1 (edited 05-22-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Fiero5: Why not go for a 4th gen "bird" Here is a pic of a '94 I used to own. One of the most amazing cars I have ever had:

I agree. I just sold a 4th gen today and am currentley begining to kick myself over it but they are a great car much more of a bang for your buck than the 3rd gen.

OKAY-----I took the plunge:




The Fiero with her new stable-mate. A 1986 (same year as the Fiero) Trans Am.

The car has been retrofitted with a 1972 350 ci Chevy 4 barrel engine from a Z28. Still has the TH700R4. Body is good and the underside is so clean you could eat off of it! The interior is good, only the driver seat has some rips.

Paid: $1500.00. She is not perfect but with a little TLC will come back just fine. 125,000 original miles (on the chassis - engine rebuilt about 2 years ago).

PS: Dude with that IROC never got back to me --- oh well, his loss!

[This message has been edited by tutnkmn (edited 05-24-2010).]

Dude that Trans-Am is freakin sweet! Iv always wanted and loved that body style Trans-Am. (was a hugh knight rider fan as a kid, lol.)

Nice Trans Am!

FWIW, my Formula had that same spoiler, only it was painted body color. Ended up splitting pretty badly.
Hope yours doesn't do the same.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Nice Trans Am! FWIW, my Formula had that same spoiler, only it was painted body color. Ended up splitting pretty badly. Hope yours doesn't do the same.

It is pretty warped. I'll see what's available, they likely make a fibreglass replacement (there are so many aftermarket parts available for these).

quote Originally posted by tutnkmn: It is pretty warped. I'll see what's available, they likely make a fibreglass replacement (there are so many aftermarket parts available for these).

I don't think I ever saw a fiberglass replacement when I had mine. Not that I was looking that hard.
I ended up getting one of those early '90s "stand up" Z28 wings.
It looked really good on the 'bird. Unfortunately, I don't have any pics.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: I don't think I ever saw a fiberglass replacement when I had mine. Not that I was looking that hard. I ended up getting one of those early '90s "stand up" Z28 wings. It looked really good on the 'bird. Unfortunately, I don't have any pics.

Here we go:

http://www.hawksthirdgenpar...rnewaftermarket.aspx

I like the 700R4 trans. I have rebuilt many of them. Made me a few $$$$ But I also spent a lot
learning how to make them live behind big HP.

As said above. Stay away from the early 700r4. Most of them has been junked or upgraded
anyways.
700r4 Don't like much over 5500/6000 RPM Front seal and Torque converter bushing fail on
early 700r4 trans.
Upgraded 10-vain front pumps and bushing helped. But front seals could still blow out.
I think it was made worse with a 13-vane because of front pump volume and pressure.
Drilling out the drain back hole helps in relieving pressure on the front seal.
I learned many other tricks with a 700r4.
If I had it to do over again I would have run from them. But I still like the trans.
Just can abuse them..

OO yea One more thing. The TV cable is not a kick down for passing gear