Lots of times while Robbie and I were talking he would tell me he was going to walk out onto the porch to have a smoke. He'd start coughing and have to put the phone down. You could hear the phlegm just rolling up from his lungs, then he'd spit it out. He did quit briefly when he was having a lot of lung problems, but he started back. We talked about his need to quit, often.

I was the same way about quitting, though I didn't have the congestion problems that Robbie had. But it also took a near-death experience, not related to smoking, to make me quit, 10 years 2 months and 4 days ago. I hope that he never touches another when he's released from the hospital. Problem is, the hospital has a smoking area and when I went to visit him the first time, there were people standing outside smoking, with IV bags hooked up to them.


GOT PAGE 10 !!

[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 05-05-2010).]

A fool and his vice are hard to separate.

Pulling for Rob though.

I speak from experience.

Ron

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 05-05-2010).]

quote Originally posted by blackrams: A (Fiero) fool and his vice were hard to separate.

Just paraphrasing you.

When he gets a little better someone needs to covince him to take advantage of all the nicotine-free days he already has from his stay there.
The physical addiction is already gone at this point.
Now all he has to beat is the mental addiction.

I'm over 2 years now without a smoke, for no reason what-so-ever. (I also quit weed & other "Recreational Ingestables" 6 months or so ago.)
And I still want a cigarette every day.
And every day I tell myself, "I can't have a cigarette becouse I don't smoke".

If I can do it, anyone can.

Everyone loves a quiter!

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 05-05-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Everyone loves a quiter!

You da Man!

Gails sister went to see robert yesterday and ask him if gary and tammy came up to see him and he told her yes so he knows who we are. gail said robert talks to me more than he does her lol.lol. she said she is gonna have to learn my southern draw accent and he might talk to her more lol... i have been to see robert every day he has been in the hospital except 1 day and i think he missed me not comeing that 1 day lol.....gail got his new glasses yesterday so maybe that will help him see alot better,,now if we can find someone to go to the hospital and make him a top plate maybe he will talk more and be able to eat before long,,rob usually want even talk on the phone without his teeth. i see progress in robert in every visit i think he is ready for some PT so he can start doing more,,i want to be there when he takes his first steps, i ask him if he was ready to walk and he said "might can" lol. i told him to get a little better and we'd work on it ..i have not heard the results of the latest swallowing test he had but i'll find out tonight,i want him to start eating some solid food so we can get some weight back on him..i want us to all get together when robert gets able and have a cook out, he would really enjoy that,,,.see ya all real soon....Gary

Gail said that Robbie continues to improve. Today he spoke up and told the nurse that he needed to go to the bathroom. This was a conversation he initiated, rather than responding to questions or commands. She said that he is also becoming aware of spatial time. At some time he was asked if Gary and Tammy had been to see him and his reply was that they had been there 'yesterday, not today'.

She said that when the nurses are tending to him, he will use his right hand to hold the rail so as to hold himself up on his side.

lol. yep thats right..while we were there the nurse came in to check his vitals and he told her he needed to use the bathroom and it was plain as day..he also told me when i left that he would see me tommorrow, i told him bye and i'd see him tommorrow and he said "thats what you told me already" and i said what he said "never mind"..im taking my laptop with me tommorrow and see if he can type so it might be under my screen name and a little messed up but im gonna let him have at it lol...i have grown so close to that boy since this happened. i told him today i was so proud of the progress he has made and i would be there to help him get to walking and he said "ok",,i told him to let me know when he is ready and we'd try it..the hospital dont plan on any PT other than his left leg so me and him is gonna do it.lol. i ask him if he was about ready to go outside and he said "yes"...i'll see if i can get him to type tommorrow if not i will get him to tell me what to type..he got his new glasses and he said he could see much better....i'll post tommorrow when im at the hospital....Gary

[This message has been edited by 86blackse (edited 05-05-2010).]

I just spoke with Gail's Brother-In-Law on her side of the family. He told me that State Farm is going to require that Robbie go to a nursing home either tomorrow or Saturday. They need to know Robbie's assets so he can get financial assistance for the nursing home.

Robbie has an 85GT that has about 300,000 miles on it. It's the original engine and interior. The seats are worn, but have covers over them to protect them. It has an Isuzu 5 speed transmission, PW, sunroof, manual mirrors, rear defroster, AC, cruise, tilt. Paint is an old early 90-s faded single part paint but it does clean up pretty well.

He also has an 86 GT with a 4-speed. I think it has over 150,000 miles and is all original. Tilt, Cruise, AC, sunroof, manual mirrors. Interior is solid with no tears. The clearcoat has faded, but the undercoat is still solid and doesn't show through to the primer.

They need a fast sale value on these cars in case they are forced to liquidate his assets to get him into the nursing home. Can anyone give me a source of valuation? Kelly Blue Book of course doesn't go back that far.

I gave the Brother-In-Law an open market valuation of about 1200 for the 85GT and 1800 on the 86GT for fast sale. The 1800 on the 86 is based on what I sold an identical 86 GT for.

I would appreciate any helpful information as soon as possible. As I said, State Farm, the young man's insurance company, is requiring Robbie to move to a nursing home tomorrow or Saturday.

Talk to a lawyer....Well, have the family talk to a lawyer...

quote Originally posted by fierofool: ... State Farm is going to require that Robbie go to a nursing home either tomorrow or Saturday. They need to know Robbie's assets so he can get financial assistance for the nursing home. As I said, State Farm, the young man's insurance company, is requiring Robbie to move to a nursing home tomorrow or Saturday.

For a quick sale, I would say $1,300.00 for the 85, I sold my 87 GT factory original with everything working (AC, cruise, everything) for $2,500.00.
I don't understand. The other guy's (who is at fault) insurance company is telling Robbie what to do ? And they may want to liquidate his assets ?
Gosh, I was catching up and feeling good for Robbie, I mean really feeling it, until the above questions came up in my mind.

I believe the Brother-In-Law said they've already contacted one for future guidance, but I think this notice of termination of coverage was kinda sudden notice. Gail hadn't mentioned it to me before, so I don't think she was expecting it. I understand he has to be out of the hospital either tomorrow or Saturday because the costs have reached State Farm's limit they will pay. I guess all the legal process will need to come later.

Edit for Cliffw :
It looks like State Farm has met their limits of liability and are dumping the rest of it on the young man and his family and may be assigning a percentage of the fault on Robbie. Without any insurance or responsible party, Robbie will need some kind of public assistance, which would require all his assets be liquidated.

[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 05-06-2010).]

I've never heard of such. I thought if there was a shortage of insurance the remaining liability cost would fall on the policy holder not the victim?

Agreed. The balance should fall on the policy holder, but there's probably no legal determination to that fact, so initially Robbie will be held responsible until and if he can get a legal judgement against the other person. I understand that the insurance has a legal limit based upon the coverage the insured has obtained. Once they reach that limit, they're under no further obligation and the balance falls on the private resources of the insured. To get anything from them would require a legal judgement of fault.

I used to own the 85GT Robbie has, and it was hit by a State Farm insured driver. They would only paint half the car and the color on the two halves didn't match, they denied some of the damage as being their client's fault, and they wouldn't replace some parts because they couldn't find them. I found the parts on the way home from the body shop and advised them where to get them.

One of my Aunts was hit in the rear back in 72 by a 14 year old kid. His parents were insured by State Farm. They never repaired my Aunt's new SS Chevelle.

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: Talk to a lawyer....Well, have the family talk to a lawyer...

I agree!!!!

What I do for a living is take care of people that do not want to go into a nursing home. Going into a nursing home should never be forced!! EVER!!

Call a Lawyer immediately, CALL A LAWYER!! The person who hit him is responsible, as is the insurance company. IF THE INSURANCE CAN NO LONGER COVER HIS CARE THE GUY THAT HIT HIM IS NOW RESPONSIBLE!

No nursing home, those places are hell.

Brad

Personally, I don't know if he's well enough to even leave the hospital. Maybe Gary could answer that. From the little I know, it sounds like he's being forced out by State Farm. It was planned that when he was well enough, he would go to his Mom's house so she could care for him. Robbie and Gail's house is uphill and difficult to get him in and out, and Gail can't stay with him all day.

quote Originally posted by fierofool: Robbie and Gail's house is uphill and difficult to get him in and out, and Gail can't stay with him all day.

That's what people like me do. I currently set with an Alzheimers patient, I make sure he eats and drinks according to his diet. I keep him clean, and make sure he doesn't wander off, I co-ordinate the physical therapy that is needed, and the nursing. I am here 8 hours a day, while his wife is at work, she cannot stay with him all day either.

It doesn't sound like much, but it's very much needed, there are companies that take care of all of this, really, call around and find out what is in your area.

Brad

no,,robert is not well enough to leave the hospital,, he cant even swallow nothing, he still has the feeding tube in. what really ticks me off is 5 doors down from rob is a big PT room and they have not even tried to do any PT or even try to sit rob up in a chair...i have known this a few days now and i have about worried myself sick. i have told gail and told gail to get a lawyer so maybe this will be enough to get her to do it now..the place robs going is close to his home its called life care center. he will probaly get better care there than he is now,atleast they will do PT and they to help rob get walking again...state farm will pay one way or the other , we can do it the hard way if thats what they want...im really so upset right now i dont even feel like talking about it,,,sorry guys.....gary

Check with Robs insurance. In some cases they will pick up the slack and then go after the responsible parties.
He may have to wait till it has gone to court and for the judges/jury's ruling. Until then it may come down to selling his assets. As bad as that is it could be worse.
I know the hospital cant just throw him out, the insurance may stop paying and the hospital will make him responsible but they cant just kick him out.

well they sure are,they said he had to be moved by saturday....i was hoping he could go to siskin rehab hospital,thats where he needs to be at this point

...and Robbie has no insurance of any kind, other than on his 2 cars. They were in Derek's truck at the time of the accident, but Derek isn't at fault. I agree with Jake. I wonder what the hospital would do if Gail just refused to move him.

I thought I saw signs in the hospital about how they couldn't turn you away if you had no insurance, but I may be remembering it from some other hospitals I've recently been to.

quote Originally posted by fierofool: ...and Robbie has no insurance of any kind, other than on his 2 cars. They were in Derek's truck at the time of the accident, but Derek isn't at fault. I agree with Jake. I wonder what the hospital would do if Gail just refused to move him. I thought I saw signs in the hospital about how they couldn't turn you away if you had no insurance, but I may be remembering it from some other hospitals I've recently been to.

I do not think they can turn him away until he is determined to be stable.

What does his doctor have to say about him leaving? They should have the last word on when he gets to leave not the bean counters.
Does he qualify for any assistance? Talk to the hospital financial department, I know there are programs that can help, the hospital wants the money and if getting people into a program will do that then they will help.

I hope that things work out for him.

First - He should have lawyered up a while ago.

Second - do NOT allow him to leave the hospital. Tough luck if its going over State Farms payout; kid should have had more insurance.

Third - I believe that since its over the kids insurance, it may fall under Robbies un-insured motorist insurance. I know in VA were required to have this, even on liability. In this sense, the kid doesn't have insurance for the amount, Robbies insurance will pay out, and go after the kid. Call his insurance to verify this, but I'm fairly certain this is the case.

This is a crappy situation to be in, but don't skimp on anything simply for financials. Also, talk to the hospital, let them know whats going on, try to work with them. A lot of them actually have funds set aside for situations like this.

What does his doctor have to say about him leaving?

the doctor said he had done all he could for robert..bet you if robert had ins. he would change his mind..bet the dr. wouldnt let his family member go home in robs condition..its all about the money,the dr. knows he want get any more funds from state farm so he's finished..if life care isnt ready for robert tommorrow he will stay where he is at even if i have to stay all night with him....i'll pull a JOHN Q. on them..lol

Ditto

Keep his but in there until he is at least stable and eating on his own.

Is it Robs insurance or the other guys who is trying this crap?

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

quote Originally posted by 86blackse: What does his doctor have to say about him leaving? the doctor said he had done all he could for robert..bet you if robert had ins. he would change his mind..bet the dr. wouldnt let his family member go home in robs condition..its all about the money,the dr. knows he want get any more funds from state farm so he's finished..if life care isnt ready for robert tommorrow he will stay where he is at even if i have to stay all night with him....i'll pull a JOHN Q. on them..lol

Sorry - but speak with someone higher up. Keep going up. My brother is an anesthesiologist, hospitals have funds for that sort of thing - work with them - explain the situation, ask for any assistance you can get.

what a visit,,,rob talked to me for 30 mins. solid tonight,,we talked about alot of stuff..robert trys so hard to talk but he said it hurts his throat so i told him to just say yes or no . he talked so much tonight i still cant believe it. i told him its time to start trying to walk,he didnt like it to much but if i dont try to get him motivated he will never do it..i ask him was he hurting anywhere and he said "nope" lol..i said are you gonna let me help you try to walk and he said " i reckon so" lol..i guess he figured i was not going to let him just lay around..lol. the nurse came in and done vitals and said im all finished i'll let you visit with your brother..lol i told robert she thinks were brothers and he laughed.lol..we had such a good time despite all the BS thats going on..i also asked robert if he knew what had happened to him and why he was in the hospital and he said no he dont remember so thats a good thing i guess..we will tell him at a later time..i'll post more tommorrow when i get home....Gary

Just regarding the insurance issue and limits of liability.................

Right now it's every person for themselves. Robbie WILL have to go to court over this. Regardless of that outcome, once State Farm has paid the policy limits, they're done. The rest the court MAY decide falls on the driver of the vehicle that hit him but it may also determine that Robbie is partially at fault. They will assess a percentage of fault.

The others that have said to get a lawyer are 100% correct. Robbie and Gail need one NOW. Although State Farm's limits might have been exceeded, the young man may have other insurance that covers him under personal liability issues such as homeowners or work (if he was driving to or from work). Those are questions that lawyers need to hash out in court.

As far as forcing him out of the hospital Gail needs to talk to his doctors and the hospital financial aid people. Every hospital that accepts medicare and medicaid also has to allow a certain amount of help for people that aren't able to pay for all of their own care but the kicker is you have to go in, be straight with them, do the paperwork, and request the help. So many people won't do this out of pride or ignorance. The only way to know for sure is to have Gail go in and sit down with them.

State farm isn't responsible for Robbie's care. They are only responsible for paying for it. If they have exceeded their policy limits then they have no say so whatsoever. Gail needs to talk to Robbie's doctors and determine his best course of treatment, not some insurance company.

I know when Gail got the call she got scared. In all reality, when I heard about this accident I thought to myself "this is going to break him" and it probably will. But they can recover from that too as long as Robbie will get better. Now state laws are different but you do NOT have to liquidate assets in KS to get state help for care. I have a good friend that is in a rest home that owns three commercial buildings. All of them are occupied with tenants and generating rental income for him. The rental income goes to the state and offsets what they pay for his care. If he didn't agree to that, he would have had to liquidate. There is a chance they might be able to work something out in that regard so they don't have to sell his tools and such that he will need to generate and income once he's recovered.

All of this is hypothetical. I don't know the laws in their state. I'm not an attorney. I'm just saying that what they need RIGHT NOW is an attorney that DOES know those laws and DOES know those options. Have Gail make an appointment with one tomorrow.

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by Wolfhound: I've never heard of such. I thought if there was a shortage of insurance the remaining liability cost would fall on the policy holder not the victim?

quote Originally posted by jstricker: Just regarding the insurance issue and limits of liability................. Right now it's every person for themselves. Robbie WILL have to go to court over this. Regardless of that outcome, once State Farm has paid the policy limits, they're done. The rest the court MAY decide falls on the driver of the vehicle that hit him but it may also determine that Robbie is partially at fault. They will assess a percentage of fault. The others that have said to get a lawyer are 100% correct. Robbie and Gail need one NOW. Although State Farm's limits might have been exceeded, the young man may have other insurance that covers him under personal liability issues such as homeowners or work (if he was driving to or from work). Those are questions that lawyers need to hash out in court. As far as forcing him out of the hospital Gail needs to talk to his doctors and the hospital financial aid people. Every hospital that accepts medicare and medicaid also has to allow a certain amount of help for people that aren't able to pay for all of their own care but the kicker is you have to go in, be straight with them, do the paperwork, and request the help. So many people won't do this out of pride or ignorance. The only way to know for sure is to have Gail go in and sit down with them. State farm isn't responsible for Robbie's care. They are only responsible for paying for it. If they have exceeded their policy limits then they have no say so whatsoever. Gail needs to talk to Robbie's doctors and determine his best course of treatment, not some insurance company. I know when Gail got the call she got scared. In all reality, when I heard about this accident I thought to myself "this is going to break him" and it probably will. But they can recover from that too as long as Robbie will get better. Now state laws are different but you do NOT have to liquidate assets in KS to get state help for care. I have a good friend that is in a rest home that owns three commercial buildings. All of them are occupied with tenants and generating rental income for him. The rental income goes to the state and offsets what they pay for his care. If he didn't agree to that, he would have had to liquidate. There is a chance they might be able to work something out in that regard so they don't have to sell his tools and such that he will need to generate and income once he's recovered. All of this is hypothetical. I don't know the laws in their state. I'm not an attorney. I'm just saying that what they need RIGHT NOW is an attorney that DOES know those laws and DOES know those options. Have Gail make an appointment with one tomorrow. John Stricker

Very good information & advice.
Thanx.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 05-07-2010).]

Couple of quick questions that may or may not be of some help to Rob.

Who was doing the towing? Rob?
Who ever it was has vehicle insurance that may cover some of Robs stay.

John is right about State Farms liability. But there are always other pockets as my lawyer friend likes to say.
Did the kid have other insurance?
Does the kid still live with his parents?
If so do the parents have insurance that may help?
Home owners for example.

Those other policies may cover some of Robs medical expenses.

Rob may also have some insurance that gives him some help here and not know it.

Get a lawyer, yesterday, that works on a percentage.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

I'm sorry you are having so much trouble paying for his treatment. Wish there was some way to make this situation gain some publicity... (maybe someone can get this on FaceBook, MySpace , Twitter, and/or some other social websites...Just need one person with $$$ to donate...
Others have replied with some great advice, I hope he gets the best care possible. I just really wanted to reply in order to mention to be very watchful for bedsores, make sure whatever mattress they are using on him is one that helps to prevent them. Also have them move him as often as possible (lean on one side or the other whenever possible)

You don't want him to deal with any secondary infections or bedsores...


"Stable" is a relative term. We went him to leave only after he is STABLE enough to go HOME, not 'stable' enough to survive the trip from the hospital to the nursing home!!!!

[This message has been edited by FieroRumor (edited 05-07-2010).]

yes they have him in a special bed to keep him from getting bed sores..im hoping everything will work out for robert. i thought he might be offer some type of settlement from state farm for pain and suffering and missed work but if the limits of the policy is maxed out i guess thats not going to happen...

Different parts of the policy cover different things. His prob had bodily injury around 50k (which got tapped out)

http://www.carinsurance.com/state/

quote Originally posted by 86blackse: yes they have him in a special bed to keep him from getting bed sores..im hoping everything will work out for robert. i thought he might be offer some type of settlement from state farm for pain and suffering and missed work but if the limits of the policy is maxed out i guess thats not going to happen...

It still doesn't release the person that hit him from liability. Sure its harder and going to take longer to get a settlement but compensation is due.

Jake is exactly right.

I know that the vast majority of people here would never like to bankrupt someone else if there was any way they could avoid it. That said, this sounds like it's going to end up as an "us or them" situation and in that situation, I'll have to side with "us" every day of the week and twice on Sundays. From what has been posted, the accident was at most only slightly Rob's fault (you can ALWAYS make the argument he should have been more careful, should have properly secured the car before, pulled off somewhere else, etc., etc., etc.) there's little doubt that if things happened as described the driver is going to bear the brunt of the responsibility here.

Now while I know it hurts to think about taking someone else's house and car or garnishing wages over an ACCIDENT, Rob and Gail are basically looking at the same thing happening to them if they don't pursue this matter with a proper attorney. That's why it's come to an "us or them" situation.

I hope by now that Gail has been in contact with an attorney and the hospital so that she can get some rest and at least get some of the responsibility off her shoulders, unfortunately it's the only way this is going to end. Besides, you never know, it may very well be that the individual that hit Rob or his family are very well off and even willing to help with the financial end of his care. I've seen that happen before as well (but I admit, not often).

John Stricker

quote Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: It still doesn't release the person that hit him from liability. Sure its harder and going to take longer to get a settlement but compensation is due.

Gail's Brother-In-Law is working on the lawyer end so that it takes a load off her. He has the experience. A moment ago, Gail and I were talking and she says that the hospital is threatening to sue them. Erlanger is a Level 1 Trauma Center and thus must treat people, irregardless of race, religion, money, etc., etc., etc. They want him moved out to a nursing home, but they can't find a place that will accept him due to the level of care he still needs.

Regarding an earlier post about bed sores; they have a special articulated matress under him that is supposed to prevent the sores. I told Gail that when he got out he'd want to go buy himself a Sleep Numbers bed.

I spoke to Robbie over the phone. Gail said he did reply but I couldn't hear him. He has been talking about engines and pistons and having to get that motor back into the car. He was working on installing Connie's new Quad 4 crate engine at the time of the accident. He was really focused on getting it installed. He spoke Gail's name for the first time and he also told her he loved her. It appears that whatever brain injury he might have incurred isn't serious and is repairing itself. I think Robbie will recover very well as long as we keep up the prayers.

quote Originally posted by fierofool: Gail's Brother-In-Law is working on the lawyer end so that it takes a load off her. He has the experience. A moment ago, Gail and I were talking and she says that the hospital is threatening to sue them. Erlanger is a Level 1 Trauma Center and thus must treat people, irregardless of race, religion, money, etc., etc., etc. They want him moved out to a nursing home, but they can't find a place that will accept him due to the level of care he still needs. Regarding an earlier post about bed sores; they have a special articulated matress under him that is supposed to prevent the sores. I told Gail that when he got out he'd want to go buy himself a Sleep Numbers bed. I spoke to Robbie over the phone. Gail said he did reply but I couldn't hear him. He has been talking about engines and pistons and having to get that motor back into the car. He was working on installing Connie's new Quad 4 crate engine at the time of the accident. He was really focused on getting it installed. He spoke Gail's name for the first time and he also told her he loved her. It appears that whatever brain injury he might have incurred isn't serious and is repairing itself. I think Robbie will recover very well as long as we keep up the prayers.

The hospital is trying to rush him into a settlement. They would rather someone take responsibility now than have to fight for it later. But I don't believe they will withhold care and if they do I think it would be time to go public. Its like getting sent to a collection department, its a tactic to get you to pay the bill. Someone should be talking to a hospital financial consoler about setting up payments, the clinic I work for will take $100 a month. So far so will the hospital here in Lakeland. His bills will be more than ours but they should still work something out. I know someone that owed them over $1000000 and was making payments knowing that they would never be able to pay it all back. Just do the best you can and take care of Robbie thats the important thing, bills can be resolved after he is in better condition.

Robbie I wish you the best, I hope that you recover fast and can someday put this behind you.

Robbie is not the first person to be in a situation such as this. Nor will he be the last.
There are counselors and social workers at the hospital.
You will have to seek them out, however. The hospital is not going to volunteer that information.
Just a thought... If you can find a chaplain, they may be more willing to steer you in the right direction.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 05-08-2010).]

Make sure you don't upset him too much about money, cars or issues... Just have him focus on healing...