Not sure how much interest there would be in this project, but I want to keep a log of it, so what better place than PFF? Plus I'm sure hoping for some opinions and advice at certain points. First off some history threads about purchasing the car My "new" ride with a GM 2.8 liter and a thread about some damage that was done to the front end Crashed Car Moral Delimma.
Now on to what I will be doing: This is the trunk that the subwoofers are going in:
I've had 2 of these subwoofers just sitting in my garage since I got my Fiero after my Senior year.(I'm a Sophomore in college now) They were in the suburban, but I took the Alpine head unit out of there, and put in in the Fiero. They are Rockford Fosgate 10 inch T1, from their Power Series. Rated at 500 watts RMS, 1000 watts max each. I can't remember exactly how much I paid for them, but I think it was about $150 per sub off of eBay.
The head unit that I bought on eBay yesterday is the Kenwood KDC-X794 It is a factory refurbished unit that was only $130. It is iPod (USB for Droid as well ), CD and AM/FM capable.
When these subs were in my Suburban, I was powering them with two Alpine MRP-M1000's pushing just under 1000 watts to each sub with the settings turned way down. I ended up selling these two amps along with a lot of the wiring when I took that head unit out of the Burban. So today I purchased a new amp (yes, you guessed it, from eBay). It is a Rockford Fosgate P1000.1.
I will be wiring these 4 ohm dual voice coil subwoofers according to this diagram
to get the maximum 1000 watts @ 1 ohm from the Punch series 1000 watt monoblock amplifier.
I'm planning on buying the materials to build my own sealed enclosures. Not sure how involved I want to get with this yet. I want to finish this over spring break that starts on Saturday. I could lay fiberglass on the inside, but I'm not sure how long that would take considering I've don't have a whole lot of experience with it. We do have some West System epoxy stuff for canoe rub strips and the like, that worked with with strips of Kevlar, I assume its similar to fiberglassing??
I'm also not completely set on the sealed enclosures. I know it will sound more crisp and clean, but I'm not sure I've matured past having that love for the booming bass that a properly vented enclosure would help provide. But then I tell myself that they're only 10's, so they're not exactly going to have that big booming bass.
Anyways I'll probably follow these plans and use MDF board and cover them in some nice, cheap fabric. And I'm actually not sure if I want to do to separate boxes or not. Depends on when I get home and take some measurements in the Caddy's trunk.
Well I think that's about it for now until I get home from college. Any questions or comments? (Or interest at all?!?)
[This message has been edited by 1988holleyformula (edited 03-11-2011).]
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01:17 AM
PFF
System Bot
faaaaq Member
Posts: 3856 From: Madison WI, USA Registered: Sep 2009
idk how much you know about boxes, so, if you do one single box, make it dual chambers. that way if one sub goes out, the other will keep going in a properly sized chamber.
im interested in subwoofer involved builds. im not sure if i will do my coming build myself or pay to have someone do it. it will be simple, but probably out of my reach.
and wait...if you are wiring them parallel, there would be a lot of mess if there was two separate boxes. did you mean dual chambered or 2 actual boxes? i hate cluttered wires lol... unless of course you would build 2 boxes and place them next to eachother..?
idk how much you know about boxes, so, if you do one single box, make it dual chambers. that way if one sub goes out, the other will keep going in a properly sized chamber.
im interested in subwoofer involved builds. im not sure if i will do my coming build myself or pay to have someone do it. it will be simple, but probably out of my reach.
and wait...if you are wiring them parallel, there would be a lot of mess if there was two separate boxes. did you mean dual chambered or 2 actual boxes? i hate cluttered wires lol... unless of course you would build 2 boxes and place them next to eachother..?
Regarding the box building. I guess good luck. I don't understand why you wouldn't just buy an off the shelf box fro the application you are talking about. The only reason I would bother building a box in your situation would be to get it as close to flush with the back of the wheel wells to save room for trunk space. I've built plenty of boxes, maybe I'm an over achiever, but I like things done correctly. It never works out cheaper for me.
Case in point, I built some bed rails the other day. Total cost was close to $50 with all material. I found out after they were put together that Lowes does sell nicer looking lumber than they told me. I was showed lumber but was wanting something more along the lines of cabinet trim and the like. Now I am $50 plus my time deep in the project. I don't mind the $50, but now I've got to either scrap all my time or stain the wood that I didn't even want in the first place. It was only $150 to buy the rails, as I found out later... As I said, I don't mind the money. I want my damn time back. Had I found the rails originally I would have just bought them, they match and I know I can NEVER stain them to match. Not sure where the hell I was going with all this. I guess if you are in college your time is less expensive than your wages still, so build away.
Regarding the box building. I guess good luck. I don't understand why you wouldn't just buy an off the shelf box fro the application you are talking about. The only reason I would bother building a box in your situation would be to get it as close to flush with the back of the wheel wells to save room for trunk space. I've built plenty of boxes, maybe I'm an over achiever, but I like things done correctly. It never works out cheaper for me.
But I've got a lot of time on my hands during spring break, so I figured I'd build my own. Plus I'm sure my Dad would love to help me build something like that. We don't get to spend a lot of time doing activities together, and building stuff is something we both enjoy, so its a win-win in my book.
Another point on the box construction. Not to sound like a wuss or anything, but each of these subs weighs a little over 25 lbs. So 50 lbs. of subs plus the MDF board for the box, plus the awkward carrying position of one big box is kinda of an inconvenience. Not that it weighs too heavily (bad pun) on my decision process, because I'm hoping once they are in the trunk, they will stay there. But its just one more reason to do two separate boxes. I'm pretty confident on my wire-hiding capabilities, the carpet in the trunk of the Caddy is pretty easy to pull up, and I wouldn't mind putting small slits in it if the need arises.
I'll be curious to see how the additional weight in the back affects the handling. The Cimarrons I've driven were pretty soft in the spring department to better feel like a larger car.
Let us know after you get everything installed.
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07:23 PM
Mar 12th, 2011
faaaaq Member
Posts: 3856 From: Madison WI, USA Registered: Sep 2009
I'm home now, went out and looked at the Caddy's trunk, and its not shaped like I thought it was, I'll end up making 1 box, with two separate chambers. Its actually going to be wedge shaped. Here's the updated plans.
Each sub should have at least the recommended .75 ft^3 volume. Each sub displaces .065 ft^3 , plus the piece that will separate the two chambers should equal out to about 1.5 ft^3 total. I think...
Here's what I already have at my house: Remote turn on wire, some bits of 4-gauge that I can use for grounding, the 8-gauge power wire, some RCAs that should work well, some 16-gauge speaker wiring, and some decent speaker box terminals that I can use.
I'm not sure if I want to use that 8-gauge wire for the power wire though, I'll probably go out and get some 4-gauge since that is what the terminals on the amp are designed to fit.
I also have some finished plywood that I was hoping I could make the box out of. I know MDF would be better, but this is a budget build. Its fairly dense:
Just went to Best Buy and picked up the wiring harness & head unit mounting kit. ($47)
On a related note, I wanted to fix the gaping change swallowing hole that the gear selector creates by doing something like I found in this Ferrobi's thread, as posted by Bloozberry. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F.../HTML/000034-11.html
The Cadillac used to have a piece of brittle plastic that covered the hole and slid with the gear shifter, that broke into pieces.
quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:
Even though your console looks awesome, I'd like to suggest something that might improve yours even more... depending on what your tastes are. Rather than being able to see all the wiring and cables down through the shift gate, I learned a little trick with my 308 kit a number of years ago. I cut out a thin rectangular frame out of a sheet of aluminum the same size at the shift gate with just a rectangular hole in the middle (ie no gates). Then, I loosely stretched two layers of black nylon stocking material over it and got my wife to sew it like a pocket completely covering the frame. Next, she sewed a button hole with her machine in the center of the nylon to allow it to slide over the shifter once the ball was removed. Finally, I mounted the thin metal frame underneath the shift gate so that the only thing seen is the black nylon. The nylon material easily stretches enough so that no matter which position the shifter is in, all you see when you look at the gate is blackness. It also prevent things like coins etc from falling into the console. Here's a couple pics with the shifter in reverse and first... note that there aren't even any wrinkles in the nylon.
But I can't figure out how to take the automatic shift knob off. Help would be appreciated!
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09:23 PM
87antuzzi Member
Posts: 11151 From: Surrounded by corn. Registered: Feb 2009
hmmmm, so I might have clipped a deer moving at less than 15 mph tonight. He seemingly wanted to run into my poor Cadillac. Oh well no damage to the new header panel, and a new bumper was in the works anyways. Honestly poor luck, I wasn't even going 40 mph tops on this road, which is the one I live on, less than a mile from my driveway.
[This message has been edited by 1988holleyformula (edited 03-13-2011).]
Back panel and bottom, the 45* cuts worked alright when it came time to put these two pieces together.
Sides and compartment divider:
My dad screwing the front on:
Test fitting the sub: There was some kind of steam drain thing at my dad's shop that had a perfect 9" diameter. Cut it out with a jigsaw, and just barely had to remove a little bit of excess to make the driver sit in there snug.
Had a hole saw the perfect size for the terminals on the back.
Will have a shot of how nice the box sits in the Caddy soon. I impressed myself at how close my measurements were.
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08:35 PM
Wudman Member
Posts: 1593 From: Sacramento, CA Registered: Jan 2001
Rock On! That should be quite obnoxious. I have sold a few of those amps. I love RF since the days when their 60 watt amp made everybody else look like they were exaggerating.
It took me three boxes to get my 12" shallow Pioneer box shallow enough and still maintain an obnoxious level of thump for RnB, hard enough hitting for rock or gentle, warm and accurate base for jazz.
I needed the box THIN! It is about 4.5 inches at the bottom and well you can see how thin at the top. I went with Masonite for the back, but the rest is 3/4 particle board.
It is powered by Rockford Fosgate of course, an older p4004 amp. Thank RF for the sub gain control 'cause it lets me be obnoxious or sociable. The rear half of the 4004 is running the sub while the front is going to my JL audio separates under the dash. It plain rocks.
[This message has been edited by Wudman (edited 03-13-2011).]
@Wudman What's the excursion on that sub? I'm not sure I could trust my passengers to not slide the seat too far back. I'm thinking when I finally do a system in my Fiero, its going to be a center glove box one. Hopefully some nice custom fiberglass enclosure, with a plexiglass plate creating a box for a 8" inverted Kenwood subwoofer.
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01:16 AM
faaaaq Member
Posts: 3856 From: Madison WI, USA Registered: Sep 2009
carpeting the box or no? IMHO it looks very nice as is, those subs seem to aesthetically fit very nicely with the wood grain. Makes it look like somethig youd see in a house or hotel designed to be "modern" in appearance.
idk specifically which is which, but i think it would look best if it was just a protective coating that brought out the wood grain, without altering/darkening the color much.
and so what if the screws arent in a perfect pattern, nobody will notice unless you are going into comps that grade the install lol. Props on doing it yourself, too. My system ill get in a couple months will lkely be done (at least the box building/designing) by a professional due to the design criteria i need
yeah, wiring seems to be where most people waste a lot of cash. my buddys friend paid like $150 for a 1/0 wire kit for his <1000watt kenwood amp. my buddy paid under $20 for his 8gauge kit for his 1000watt amp (8 works fine...doesnt get warm, nothing)
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05:07 PM
Wudman Member
Posts: 1593 From: Sacramento, CA Registered: Jan 2001
yeah, wiring seems to be where most people waste a lot of cash. my buddys friend paid like $150 for a 1/0 wire kit for his <1000watt kenwood amp. my buddy paid under $20 for his 8gauge kit for his 1000watt amp (8 works fine...doesnt get warm, nothing)
You definitely don't have to buy the high end kits, but you do need the correct gauge of wire. It isn't about overheating but delivering the appropriate current to the amplifier to get the power out.
Having said that some wire is better than others, but gauge is always important.
By the way, I can't imagine spending $150 for a wiring kit for a Kenwish "1000" watt amp.
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05:15 PM
faaaaq Member
Posts: 3856 From: Madison WI, USA Registered: Sep 2009
You definitely don't have to buy the high end kits, but you do need the correct gauge of wire. It isn't about overheating but delivering the appropriate current to the amplifier to get the power out.
Having said that some wire is better than others, but gauge is always important.
By the way, I can't imagine spending $150 for a wiring kit for a Kenwish "1000" watt amp.
i know, but 8 was cheap and it runs his system just fine
and the Kenwood IS a 1000watt amp (was surprisingly cheap, especially for a kenwood), and the wire kit he bought was his choice, no input from me. i didnt even bother to tell him how stupid he was, hes like 3 years younger than me and i didnt want to insult him. he also insisted the fuse be by the amp, not the battery...and that a teacher at school told him that was the correct way to do it.... also got $20 just to inform him his amp wasnt working because he blew the fuse lol
I spent way too much time last night fitting this head unit in there. And I must have screwed something up, because this morning right after I took this picture, it shut off. I had to go to work, so I didn't get to troubleshoot it. I was able to drive home last night from my friend's house and it worked fine though. It actually worked better than fine, its amazing how much sound quality you gain from a decent head unit over the stock one.
I should have this all worked out tonight after work.
Ughhh, I spent my lunch taking the dash apart again to get at the connections behind the deck. Everything looked good, I don't know why it won't turn on. I guess I'll probably end up un-splicing all the wires I did, and then re-do everything. I hope its not something wrong with the wires that are in the Cadillac that plug into the wiring harness. I also hope that I didn't get screwed on a factory refurbished head unit.
Any suggestions at what to look at as to why a head unit won't turn on?
Ughhh, I spent my lunch taking the dash apart again to get at the connections behind the deck. Everything looked good, I don't know why it won't turn on. I guess I'll probably end up un-splicing all the wires I did, and then re-do everything. I hope its not something wrong with the wires that are in the Cadillac that plug into the wiring harness. I also hope that I didn't get screwed on a factory refurbished head unit.
Any suggestions at what to look at as to why a head unit won't turn on?
1st guess would be, it is something you've done. Take the deck out, put a test light to the battery wire if it is hot, go to the acc wire. If it is hot with the ignition on, then it is the head-unit.
EDIT, might check the tines on the other side of the harness too, just in case you did a bad splice. I don't know what type of connections you used, but this is always a sensitive point.
[This message has been edited by ls3mach (edited 03-17-2011).]
1st guess would be, it is something you've done. Take the deck out, put a test light to the battery wire if it is hot, go to the acc wire. If it is hot with the ignition on, then it is the head-unit.
EDIT, might check the tines on the other side of the harness too, just in case you did a bad splice. I don't know what type of connections you used, but this is always a sensitive point.
I'm kicking myself for this right now. But I never even checked the radio fuse in the Cadillac's fuse box. I'm feeling really impatient to get home now...
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04:16 PM
Khw Member
Posts: 11139 From: South Weber, UT. U.S.A. Registered: Jun 2008
I'm kicking myself for this right now. But I never even checked the radio fuse in the Cadillac's fuse box. I'm feeling really impatient to get home now...
I was going to post "Check the fuses". If you find a blown fuse, check for bare wires that might have shorted, also double check your connections and make sure they are correct. It is possible that the current drain of the headunit may be to much for the stock fuse size and require a larger fuse.
Ok, I found a wire I had mis-connected to the head unit, no idea why it played fine last night, but works perfect now.
I have everything pretty much put together, except the fact that my RCA cables ended up being about 2 feet short. I already have an extension on the RCA's with barrel connectors, and have another extension that would reach the rest of the way, but I, A. don't have any more barrel connectors B. don't want to lose sound quality
So I'll probably buy a set of new cables, instead of heading to Radio Shack for 2 barrel connectors.
I haven't screwed the subs into the box yet, but everything is sealed and wired, I just want to test them at low levels to make sure everything is good before I put them in.
I'll have to get some pictures of the back seat out in the Caddy (and the rest of the project) tomorrow. With the back seat out, there really isn't a lot of extra room, it could be cool to make this into some kind of oversized 2-door coupe, it will be pearl white, with gold swangers, the gold d'Oro edition grill, and probably a gold pinstripe where the plastic cladding is. I would then proceed to change everything silver colored in the interior into gold or white. And then I think I would be done with this car. But that's years and years away, I might lose interest, but you heard it here first!
Ok, I found a wire I had mis-connected to the head unit, no idea why it played fine last night, but works perfect now.
I have everything pretty much put together, except the fact that my RCA cables ended up being about 2 feet short. I already have an extension on the RCA's with barrel connectors, and have another extension that would reach the rest of the way, but I, A. don't have any more barrel connectors B. don't want to lose sound quality
So I'll probably buy a set of new cables, instead of heading to Radio Shack for 2 barrel connectors.
I haven't screwed the subs into the box yet, but everything is sealed and wired, I just want to test them at low levels to make sure everything is good before I put them in.
I'll have to get some pictures of the back seat out in the Caddy (and the rest of the project) tomorrow. With the back seat out, there really isn't a lot of extra room, it could be cool to make this into some kind of oversized 2-door coupe, it will be pearl white, with gold swangers, the gold d'Oro edition grill, and probably a gold pinstripe where the plastic cladding is. I would then proceed to change everything silver colored in the interior into gold or white. And then I think I would be done with this car. But that's years and years away, I might lose interest, but you heard it here first!
/rambling
EXTREMELY unlikely you would notice the "quality degradation". If you just like pulling wires go for it. I don't want to call your system cheap and be insulting, but it IS cheap, relative to competition/audiophile audio. Anyway, have you replaced the mids and hi-s yet? I personally like speakers with a crossover. Focal, MB-Quart if you've got the scratch. Polk or Infinity if you aren't amping them. I HATE RF and Alpine speakers. RF makes fantastic amps though. The only Kenwood I would ever consider would be Excellon. No Sony for me EVER! Bit of a snob I guess.
I for one am anti the white and gold. Maybe it would be tasteful, but eh.
EXTREMELY unlikely you would notice the "quality degradation". If you just like pulling wires go for it. I don't want to call your system cheap and be insulting, but it IS cheap, relative to competition/audiophile audio. Anyway, have you replaced the mids and hi-s yet? I personally like speakers with a crossover. Focal, MB-Quart if you've got the scratch. Polk or Infinity if you aren't amping them. I HATE RF and Alpine speakers. RF makes fantastic amps though. The only Kenwood I would ever consider would be Excellon. No Sony for me EVER! Bit of a snob I guess.
I for one am anti the white and gold. Maybe it would be tasteful, but eh.
My audio tastes sound similar.
Definitely no Sony for me. RF makes really good amps, and better than average subs. Infinity speakers are my favorite speakers, even amped, but if they are amped Focal is my quick second pick. Not amped, Infinity is still my favorite. I won't do Alpine speakers, but I really like their head units. I haven't heard RF speakers. I don't like anything Kenwood except for the amps, which I actually really like, but that head unit LOOKS nice. Haven't heard it in a car so Idk how it sounds or functions obviously.
Holley, make sure everything is SUPER DE DUPER tight on that box. Any space at all between parts will be an incredibly annoying rattle. I always liked carpet because it would dampen those effects, but if you flush everything and seal it all perfectly it'll be good.
Here's how short the RCA's ended up being: Actually the amp turn on wire is a bit short too, but not worried about splicing some extra speaker wire to that.
So I bought some couplers for $5 from Radio Shack to use my extension that I had from a previous install. (plus that extension looks cooler than the black RCA's and will be seen plugged into the back of the amp rarely)
I got my fuse and fuse holder, ready to cut the battery cable and put that up there under the hood (not in the trunk, thanks Faaaaq).
I'm just gonna eat lunch now, then put all this together, maybe get a video by tonight.
EXTREMELY unlikely you would notice the "quality degradation". If you just like pulling wires go for it. I don't want to call your system cheap and be insulting, but it IS cheap, relative to competition/audiophile audio. Anyway, have you replaced the mids and hi-s yet? I personally like speakers with a crossover. Focal, MB-Quart if you've got the scratch. Polk or Infinity if you aren't amping them. I HATE RF and Alpine speakers. RF makes fantastic amps though. The only Kenwood I would ever consider would be Excellon. No Sony for me EVER! Bit of a snob I guess.
I for one am anti the white and gold. Maybe it would be tasteful, but eh.
No worries, I know this is a budget, cheap install. And I haven't done anything with the speakers yet, but it does come with the Cadillac "Symphony Sound," which I know isn't really comparable to having amped mids/hi's, but it will do since I have no more money that I can dump into this project. Plus with the Kenwood head unit, the clarity and volume of the stock system sounds to me like it should complement the T1's alright. The sound system is already worth twice what we paid for the car, so its all in the future.
Bdub, I'm really hoping I got that box all sealed up. I took the caulk and just put in on my fingers and pressed it into all the seams (inside and outside). And carpet should be on the way this summer, hopefully.
And I'm pretty much with you guys. I could never put anything Xplod in my ride (one of the reasons I could never drive the Plazma, who wants to showcase Xplod amps?). I like my Alpine head unit in the Fiero, the search function on this Kenwood unit is much better though. Plus the Kenwood can control my iPod, or I can choose songs with my iPod. (When plugged into the Alpine unit, it only displays "Accessory Connected") I also have a mix of Kenwood 4x10's and Alpine 4x6's in the Fiero, and the Alpine 4x6's sound much better than the old Kenwood 4x6s that used to be in the rear pillars.
I've never been in a car with Infinity or Focal speakers, but I'm pretty open minded, so I might try them in the Cadillac when it comes time to upgrade. I've also been very impressed with most Boston Acoustics products that I've heard, so those are an option too.
Oh, and ls3, the head unit is Excelon if that makes you more comfortable with it!
All done. They aren't as loud as my friends ported 12 inch T1, but they sound just as I expected. I'll still have to add some sound deadening, or similar material to eliminate some rattles and vibrations. It already debadged half of the trunk, so I'll have to get rid of the residue also.
I still have enough trunk room.
I'm very pleased with the fit of this box, and glad I made it myself to fit the specs of the Caddy's trunk.
Any opinions/concerns about the placement of the amp on your guy's part?
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07:56 PM
87antuzzi Member
Posts: 11151 From: Surrounded by corn. Registered: Feb 2009
I normally try to put the amp off the box and hidden. 1) If someone rips you off you at least salvaged something 2) I have destroyed the same amp from the rattle of 4 15's......Granted there were more amps but all on top of the boxes.
I normally try to put the amp off the box and hidden. 1) If someone rips you off you at least salvaged something 2) I have destroyed the same amp from the rattle of 4 15's......Granted there were more amps but all on top of the boxes.
That's what I was afraid of. I don't have room in the cabin of the car, and if someone takes the box out, they would see the amp in the trunk anyways. The box is right up against the back wall of the trunk, so the only other place the amp would fit would be on the floor of the trunk somewhere, and then I lose storage space.
With the sealed box, and being they are only 10's, I hope the vibrations don't hurt the amp too much.
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08:26 PM
Mar 19th, 2011
Khw Member
Posts: 11139 From: South Weber, UT. U.S.A. Registered: Jun 2008
Back when I had my 82 Trans Am I had two 10" Soundstream Pro's on a plate in the trunk and I installed the amps in the spare tire well. I popped out the trunk lock and filled in the hole so there was no key entry, you had to use the trunk popper to get into the trunk area. My car was broken into and all they got was my headunit. When they cut the wires it blew the fuse for the trunk popper so they couldn't get into the trunk.
[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 03-19-2011).]
), CD and AM/FM capable.
