I've never told anyone what to post or not to post. I've asked repeatedly that people posting political content or content designed to provoke a political response to use the software the forum creator wrote to properly mark their topics , namely politics, so that all the rest of us who don't want to see politics and have politics unchecked in their preferences don't have to see it. But somehow, some way, a small group insists on ignoring that so that they can presumably appeal to a wider, and unwilling, audience. The personal attacks, general rudeness, and deliberate hostility and provocation that this minority tends to use drags down the entire forum by driving away people who are just plain tired of it.
The whole issue would go away with two simple, yet apparently completely impossible, tasks on the part of this small group:
1. One mouse click. It's not even an extra mouse click, since a category has to be chosen or the topic won't go through. Just a different mouse click a few pixels over to one side. The tiniest flick of the wrist, a mere 1/8" movement of the mouse. Hardly a neuron fires and likely not even a single calorie is consumed by the effort expended to do this One. Simple. Task.
2. Respect the category choice of those who didn't mark their topics political by keeping politics out of it. This small group cannot seem to see anything in the world without somehow managing to interject partisan, hostile, rude, and divisive politics into the thread. Ham sandwiches on sale today at Kroger? Man, must be those liberals or conservatives or something craptastic like that. It just never seems to end. What is it about this itty bitty minority that Can't Keep It In Their Pants, politically speaking? Give it a rest, and show some respect for the topic starters and those who don't want to see politics. If you just can't resist finding some political aspect of a non-political subject, then go start a topic about the politics of San Augustine Grass, or burritos, or whatever.
It's not hard. It's not even rocket science. It does require some self-control. Perhaps that's too much to ask of a handful of members here, to stop stinking it up for the rest of us. But, I'll keep cajoling, imploring, pointing, and otherwise trying. If I fail, it won't be because I stood by and didn't care.
Blah blah blah... I never said the text that you've quoted me as saying. As you have put a dozen times. YOU ARE FABRICATING LIES!!!
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Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
I don't believe telling others what to post and what not to post is the right way to have a wonderful forum.
That never happened, I never said that anywhere. It was theBDub, but I totally agree with him regardless.
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Originally posted by JazzMan:
You heard wrong, or more likely, you just fabricated that morsel of information. Nothing to meme here, move along...
It's a joke dude. I tried to word it as carefully as I possibly could to Boondawg so you wouldn't get insulted, but I STILL managed to upset you.
I've got to be honest, I'm really sick of your **** . You don't like comedy, jokes, or laughter... You think the rest of us inferior to you because of it (which is hilarious in itself).... that's fine, I don't care.... but there's no reason why you have to make the rest of us miserable for it.
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06:20 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
I think this bears repeating for Jazzman. "Being civil does not grant one a license to be a harpy. Doing so is rude behavior, especially if there is a better than thou attitude accompanying it." Learn to quit when you are ahead.
[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 03-24-2011).]
I've asked repeatedly that people posting political content or content designed to provoke a political response to use the software the forum creator wrote to properly mark their topics , namely politics, so that all the rest of us who don't want to see politics and have politics unchecked in their preferences don't have to see it. But somehow, some way, a small group insists on ignoring that so that they can presumably appeal to a wider, and unwilling, audience. The personal attacks, general rudeness, and deliberate hostility and provocation that this minority tends to use drags down the entire forum by driving away people who are just plain tired of it.
The whole issue would go away with two simple, yet apparently completely impossible, tasks on the part of this small group:
1. One mouse click. It's not even an extra mouse click, since a category has to be chosen or the topic won't go through. Just a different mouse click a few pixels over to one side. The tiniest flick of the wrist, a mere 1/8" movement of the mouse. Hardly a neuron fires and likely not even a single calorie is consumed by the effort expended to do this One. Simple. Task.
2. Respect the category choice of those who didn't mark their topics political by keeping politics out of it. This small group cannot seem to see anything in the world without somehow managing to interject partisan, hostile, rude, and divisive politics into the thread. Ham sandwiches on sale today at Kroger? Man, must be those liberals or conservatives or something craptastic like that. It just never seems to end. What is it about this itty bitty minority that Can't Keep It In Their Pants, politically speaking? Give it a rest, and show some respect for the topic starters and those who don't want to see politics. If you just can't resist finding some political aspect of a non-political subject, then go start a topic about the politics of San Augustine Grass, or burritos, or whatever.
It's not hard. It's not even rocket science. It does require some self-control. Perhaps that's too much to ask of a handful of members here, to stop stinking it up for the rest of us. But, I'll keep cajoling, imploring, pointing, and otherwise trying. If I fail, it won't be because I stood by and didn't care.
And that... I agree with. Yes, the threads should be correctly marked. People that incorrectly mark their posts confuse me; I don't quite understand why you wouldn't put them in the category they belong. However, once a thread is marked and posted in, the topic cannot change. So if a thread changes topic from natural progression (not someone hijacking it... but like this thread, it was worth mentioning), sometimes it can turn into a different topic. And that's OKAY. It really is. This is a conversation amongst many people, and conversations flow. They don't just say the same things over and over. And I like that.
I still don't like your technique, but I do want to take this time to apologize to you for harassing you. Take it how you will... but I'm sorry.
..Detroit city?? I was there once many years ago ,,it was a festering crime crap hole then,A FRIGHTNING PLACE , worse now Cleveland will become a bandit stronghole,,I remember the Cleveland democrats who killed the Combat Marine on leave because he only had $8,blew his brains out .
...West Orlando is a complete POS ,,this is where many of these black Detroit/Cleveland/Cincinatti/PHILLY criminals have moved and they are slowly making Orlando the crime capitol of the Nation,,some of the gangs just throw AK47,s away after they use them ,OUR MURDER RATE HAS SKYROCKETED,,I WISH THEY WOULD ALL GO TO MIAMI,OVERTON. WHICH IS PHILLY SOUTH.. The democrats are responsible for a lot of this ..I have had some interesting experiences in west Orlando when i go to help on the lambo,, black Orlando is not as scary as Philly ,,but it will be,,I find it scary & im 6ft 245 pounds & can take care of myself..What does the average citizen feel driving thru ?? Nothing will change untill democrats like Rangel,Dodd,Frank,Reed & Pile o sheit swing in a great rope dance ,,America has been distroyed by Political correctness ,we are still falling ,not tommorow America has been destroyed yesterday ,,Maybe Nazi ,KKK ,super liar ,champion Liar of liars,Ron paul can Help re elect Obama ,,The dems are praying for Rand Paul or Ron KKK paul to step forward
[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 03-24-2011).]
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10:09 PM
Mar 25th, 2011
cliffw Member
Posts: 36759 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Originally posted by JazzMan: Your words, not mine. If you want to accuse someone for libel (slander is spoken, libel is written) you'll have to take yourself as defendant.
[yawn] [/yawn] are you trying to embarrass me, ... with my own words ? Try harder James, try harder. You can construe my words to mean anything you want, I don't care.
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Originally posted by JazzMan: I'll apologize for that lapse of civility and continue to work diligently to be more civil. It's the path I've chosen, will you join me on that path?
No apology necessary and I do not need to work at being civil. In your quest, you might look up the word and study the definition. Thanks for the trip down memory lane.
[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 03-25-2011).]
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06:57 AM
cliffw Member
Posts: 36759 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Originally posted by JazzMan: I've never told anyone what to post or not to post. I've asked repeatedly that people posting political content or content designed to provoke a political response to use the software the forum creator wrote to properly mark their topics , namely politics, so that all the rest of us who don't want to see politics and have politics unchecked in their preferences don't have to see it. But somehow, some way, a small group insists on ignoring that so that they can presumably appeal to a wider, and unwilling, audience. The personal attacks, general rudeness, and deliberate hostility and provocation that this minority tends to use drags down the entire forum by driving away people who are just plain tired of it.
You just did it right there, and also have insinuated intent. At the very least you are telling us to not post if we see a political angle to a thread. It is against forum rules to start a thread about another thread. You keep saying all the rest of us. You are the only whiner we know, . There is no software in place to mark our posts, just threads. Since you want everybody to bow down to you, demand that Cliff write in this feature for you. Better yet, start your own forum. If you can't play with the big dogs, get back on the porch. Like I said earlier ...
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Originally posted by cliffw: Fine, all you want. Rant ... all you want. Pull your hair out all you want. Hit the back button all you want.
... I don't even need a mouse click to ignore you.
[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 03-25-2011).]
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07:25 AM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
Poor Detroit. It hasn't had any good news for decades, and now, despite a $77 billion bailout of the auto industry, its population continues to implode. The No. 1 reason: the United Auto Workers union.
Census data released Tuesday show Detroit's population has plunged 25% since 2000 to just 713,777 souls — the same as 100 years ago, before the auto industry's heyday. As recently as the 1970s, Detroit had 1.8 million people.
What's happening is no secret: Detroiters are fleeing an economic disaster, the irreversible decline of the Big Three automakers.
In his now-famous Super Bowl commercial for Chrysler, rapper Eminem drives up to a theater in a sleek new 200 model and says, "This is the Motor City. And this is what we do." But, sadly, that's no longer the case. Detroit's decline has been shocking.
Sure, a lot of the blame goes to a generation of bad management. But the main reason for Detroit's decline is the greed of the industry's main union, the UAW, which priced the Big Three out of the market.
As recently as 2008, GM, Ford and Chrysler paid their employees on average more than $73 an hour in total compensation. The 12 foreign transplants, operating in nonunion states mostly in the South and Midwest, averaged about $42 an hour.
Guess which manufacturers are healthiest and expanding their market today? In 2008, the Big Three still made 59% of all cars in the U.S. But, according to recent estimates, their market share is now 46% — with foreign companies selling the bulk of all U.S. cars. So Detroit's loss has been the South's and Midwest's gain.
Behind this is the gold-plated benefits package once guaranteed to UAW workers. We're not against workers getting what they deserve, but total pay and benefits for a full-time worker for the Big Three until recently averaged about $140,000 a year.
The transplants? Just $80,000. Add in an estimated $2,000-plus per car for retiree health care and pensions for the Big Three, and the cost gap is huge.
Two years ago, the Center for Automotive Research estimated that for every job created by a foreign transplant, 6.1 jobs were lost by the Big Three — many of them in Detroit. No city can take that much economic abuse.
Nor has the $77 billion bailout of GM and Chrysler — which enriched the UAW at the expense of bondholders and shareholders — helped. True enough, sales have bounced back some, but neither one is out of the woods.
Even as Detroit collapses, new UAW chief Bob King promises to "pound" the transplants into submission and force them to drink his union's poison, too.
Given what we know, every town that is now home to a foreign automaker should be very afraid. If King has his way, they'll soon suffer Detroit's fate.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: It's a joke dude. I tried to word it as carefully as I possibly could to Boondawg so you wouldn't get insulted, but I STILL managed to upset you.
You have a history of mocking and deriding me across multiple forums and threads. that's the context you've created for what you wrote regarding me and Boondawg. Think about how what you wrote WRT me and Boondawg in that context, see how the meaning is not what you say you thought you meant? You created that context, whether you chose to be aware of it or not, and it was that misunderstanding of the context you created that created this issue, if indeed what you wrote was intended to be some sort of joke.
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Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I've got to be honest, I'm really sick of your **** . You don't like comedy, jokes, or laughter...
I'm sick of a lot of things, too, like uncivility such a mockery, derision, etc. But, I keep soldiering on and work diligently on making myself a better person, in the full (and new to me a few months ago) realization that some others either won't, or can't, change. I'll backslide on occasion like I did earlier in this thread, but I'll keep moving forward because forward movement is progress.
BTW, I love comedy, jokes, and laughter, though I have to admit my sense of humor is rather dry. I attribute that to watching many hours of Monty Python and Fawlty Towers as a child and teenager. I regard Cleese as one of the all-time best comedic geniuses to ever grace the screen.
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10:28 AM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 24140 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
You have a history of mocking and deriding me across multiple forums and threads. that's the context you've created for what you wrote regarding me and Boondawg. Think about how what you wrote WRT me and Boondawg in that context, see how the meaning is not what you say you thought you meant? You created that context, whether you chose to be aware of it or not, and it was that misunderstanding of the context you created that created this issue, if indeed what you wrote was intended to be some sort of joke.
The "joke" is that Boondawg wants everyone to like him (and everyone does). The fact that your name was mentioned was of little to no consequence and not part of the meat of the joke. You could have been anyone else, and it would have been the same. I only mentioned you because the discussion was between you and him, and the question came up.
I never tried to mock you. What started was you criticized me multiple times for posting in a thread that BECAME political, and chastized me for it. As Reverend Wright says "Who do you think you are?"
Then I tried to help you where I sought fit for me to do so... I spilled my guts, in hopes of relating to you, you tossed that aside, fine...
If I could give up my Fiero for you to have a great life for the rest of your life, free of uncomfortable social situations, and you'd have tons of friends and plenty of money... I would do that, becuase THAT'S the kind of person I am. You don't see that in anyone, and apparently see everything as an attack on you. I chalk this up to you being unable to distinguish motive and inferences, which I know is part of the condition. There's really no point in arguing this. All I can say is that despite your nastyness to the rest of us here, I'd still help you out if you needed my help.
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11:03 AM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: The "joke" is that Boondawg wants everyone to like him (and everyone does).
To be fair, I missed that in the joke, too.
In reality, it's not that I want everyone to like me. It's that I can't understand how everyone could not like me!
The difference between the two is that one requires maintenace, while the other does not. ------------------ And they said one to another, "Behold, for here comes the dreamer. Come now, let us slay him and we shall see what then will become of his dreams." ~ Genesis 37: 19-20
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 03-25-2011).]
In reality, it's not that I want everyone to like me. It's that I can't understand how everyone could not like me!
I like that haha.
Once Pyrthian or perhaps tbone (two completely different people, but I'm fairly sure it was one of them two. I could be totally wrong) posted a thread about who they don't like, and why. I was on that list "because I try to avoid stepping on toes"[not sic]. They assumed that, because I was civil and realized my place in the forum as a new member, I was afraid of what others might think of me. They were wrong, but that's not the point. By that, I could see how someone COULD not like you, even though I really don't think it could happen with you. I'm just trying to show you how even NOT stepping on toes can grind someone's gears
Jazzman, did you see my apology? I don't need a response, just an acknowledgment that you saw that. It's for my own humility that I know you got the message. If you don't respond to this I'll PM you. No big deal... I just want you to know that I AM sorry.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I chalk this up to you being unable to distinguish motive and inferences, which I know is part of the condition.
I understand motives and inferences just fine. This statement, and others you've made, reeks of condescension, positively drips with it. That's why you're on my ignore list, I don't need a second channel of reek. If Cliff had a user ignore feature like so many other forums have I'd put you on that one as well. For that matter, a thread ignore feature would be nice, too. One that works, anyway, since the current one is pretty well ignored. LOL, how punny.
BTW, I don't know you other than how you present yourself here on the forum, so I don't judge your character, only your actions here. Just so you know.
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11:32 AM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 24140 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
I understand motives and inferences just fine. This statement, and others you've made, reeks of condescension, positively drips with it. That's why you're on my ignore list, I don't need a second channel of reek. If Cliff had a user ignore feature like so many other forums have I'd put you on that one as well. For that matter, a thread ignore feature would be nice, too. One that works, anyway, since the current one is pretty well ignored. LOL, how punny.
BTW, I don't know you other than how you present yourself here on the forum, so I don't judge your character, only your actions here. Just so you know.
Anything else, or can you continue to ignore me now?
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01:05 PM
Scottzilla79 Member
Posts: 2573 From: Chicago, IL Registered: Oct 2009
Why don't we all just MANUALLY ignore people we have problems with. You don't need Cliff or anyone else to do it for you. Honestly I don't mind politics entering threads as much as I hate people bringing their personal crap into them.
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01:58 PM
cliffw Member
Posts: 36759 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Originally posted by JazzMan: For that matter, a thread ignore feature would be nice, too. One that works, anyway, since the current one is pretty well ignored. LOL, how punny.
Just like a dumbocrat. Wanting mommy gooberment to take care of you instead of taking personal responsibility to take care of yourself. More on taking care of yourself later in this post. No, let's do it now. Geezeman, , did you not learn anything the last time you were here ? You would post a view that was unacceptable. Ironically, a political view. [spooky music] How weird is that [/spooky music] ? You spent hours, and days, looking for links, dubious resources, and people who would agree with you, so as to have proof you were right. 'Cep't, it never worked. Just like now (evidenced by you spending hours to did up my quotes from my old threads, . C'ept now cause no one is agreeing with you except in your purported PM's, ). You got your azz handed to you so many times, and sent many threads to the trash can.. Just like now except the civility being given you has not landed a thread there yet. Yet,. You resorted to trolling. Just like now. You worked yourself into a dither, to the point of mental exhaustion, just like you are doing now. You couldn't face life on PFF so you deleted any contribution you made and went away and sulked. Just like is gonna happen soon. Why did you come back ?, James, you, not the gooberment, not us, not Cliff, YOU, you are the one responsible for your personal happiness. Quit trying to make us cater to your will. Like I said earlier ...
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Originally posted by cliffw: Fine, all you want. Rant ... all you want. Pull your hair out all you want. Hit the back button all you want.
We are not going to bow down to Jazzman. Get over yourself. Odd for someone claiming that politics can ruin a thread, that you did it by complaining because just a couple of political remarks were mentioned. The only political discussion going on here is your lack of tolerance that a political aspect was brought up. Yes, you do want to tell us what we can post and what we can't. Get over yourself.
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cliffw Just like a dumbocrat. Wanting mommy gooberment to take care of you instead of taking personal responsibility to take care of yourself.
Dude, it is apparent that you do not understand the rules of this forum. The very same rules that you accuse us of violating. Perhaps you do. You can't even quote them in support of your whine. I have quoted them for you in support of my beliefs. Are you crying out for attention ? Why would you be crying out for the type f attention that you are getting ? The same type of attention which drove you away the last time. Geezeman, did you not learn anything from the last time you were here ? Here, I will reference quote the rules for you again just in case you missed it the last time.
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Forum Rules Don't overuse your signature! Using your signature once in a thread is usually enough. Also, be sure your signature complies with the signature rules
See, it says using your signature once in a thread is usually enough. You can scream till you are blue bluer in the face. I don't care. You think using it more than once is gonna accomplish anything ? In that quote is a linky for more refined signature rules. Click on it.
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Signature rules When to use your signature It's completely unnecessary to include your signature in every single message you post in the same thread. Even though your sig-pic will only be loaded once (and then cached by your browser), it does mean people have to do a lot of unnecessary scrolling.
Thirdly, where exactly does it state that a topic may not stray off topic ? Especially in the off topic section ? Again ...
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Forum Rules
Are you posting in the right section? To summerize, the Technical Discussion & Questions section is just that. For technical discussions and questions. So no "what is the best source for polyurethanemethanoloxide bushings?" or "should I paint my Fiero pink or blue-with-polkadots?" threads. Those belong in the General Fiero Chat section. In this (the GFC) section you can also post threads about the forum itself. Or ask who the owner of that blue-with-polkadots Fiero is. Just as long as it's Fiero or Forum related. The Mall section is for Fiero related items only. If you need to sell your computer, your Lexus, your adult video collection, or your cat, then you should post that in the Totally O/T section. Totally O/T stands for "Totally Off Topic", and not for "Let's start a flamewar 'cause I'm bored". A lot of people seem to misunderstand that. In the TO/T section the same rules apply as in the other sections. So keep it civilized, no circumventing the censor system, no threads about threads, yadah, yadah.
Where does it state that we can only post political queeries in religious sections ? It doesn't.
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Originally posted by JazzMan: When you create a new topic, one of the things that is mandatory to do is to check a category. If a category isn't checked the topic will fail to post. There's no default setting, Cliff set it up that way when he wrote the software for that function. A mouse click is all it takes, it's not really all that complicated. And yes, I've got my filters permanently set to never see religious or political posts. Unfortunately, Cliff's efforts are in vain when people choose to ignore him.
Hey doofus. Conversation flows. You do not have your (Cliff's) filters to only see political posts. Political threads, yes. Political posts, no. Get Cliff to write some new software just for you. We are not ignoring Cliff. I believe he recognizes freedom of speech. Get over yourself. Here is proof that you do like political discourse. From a thread that you complained about it in.
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Originally posted by JazzMan: That's actually not true. Their agenda, such that it is, is not target the middle class, or any class. They do, however, want to do what it takes to increase profits to businesses and, since their party is fairly well funded by those at the top of the economic ladder, increase wealth to their "shareholders". There's nothing inherently wrong with that in principle. However, the indirect result is, and has been, to push more and more people down the economic ladder, particularly those from the middle class. They're not intending that to happen, but it's happening as a result of their actions and policies. What I find disappointing about the Republican party is that they really don't seem to care in a way that matters. They'll talk about it, but when it comes down to brass tacks they just look the other way. I actually agree with some of what they (on paper, anyway) call their principles, such as fiscal responsibility. They don't actually follow that principle, look at starting two trillion dollar wars and doing trillion dollar tax cuts at the same time for example. Then they did all the war funding off-budget by calling it emergency expenditures, year after year after year. I could see the first year being an emergency, but after that we had a pretty good idea how much it was going to cost. That huge off-budget expense has come back to haunt us because that was real money spent, not some wall-street derivative shell game. Fact is, the lower and middle class comprises the bulk of the 70% of economic activity that is consumer spending. Bill Gates doesn't buy any more products such as toasters than the little guy, and there's a lot more little guys than there are Bill Gates's. Neither party is recognizing that fact very well, but the Republican party seems to be going out of their way to ignore it entirely. Hence Wall Street and financial types are doing a booming business while the other 95% are having to make decisions like choosing between rent or food because gas to get to work is more important than both. As to the civility, I didn't catch where you'd called Republicans pricks, and wish you hadn't. That was uncivil. Just because they act like they do doesn't mean you should stoop to their level. It's important, because one of their main debating tactics is to get you to their level and therefor ceding the moral high ground. I didn't realize that was what they were doing until recently, and now am striving to climb back up out of their sewer. I'd recommend the same to you. Don't go to them in their sewage, make them climb up to you by being civil and showing decorum. If we all work hard at being civil and polite the real stinkers will start standing out, and there really aren't that many of them.
I guess it is only good when it agrees with your dumbocratic views. Get over yourself.
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Originally posted by twofatguys: Mr. Jazz Man, You are being a troll, and I am not buying into your game. I answered your question, and you continue your game. If this is how you wish to spend your time, then fine, go ahead, but I do not feel like playing it with you.
I am definitely game. Bring it on James. Now folks, this here post of mine, is proof positive. Proof positive that jazzman can ignore a post. Just like he ignored my last one. Don't, to jazzman.
[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 03-25-2011).]
Once Pyrthian or perhaps tbone (two completely different people, but I'm fairly sure it was one of them two. I could be totally wrong) posted a thread about who they don't like, and why. I was on that list "because I try to avoid stepping on toes"[not sic]. They assumed that, because I was civil and realized my place in the forum as a new member, I was afraid of what others might think of me. They were wrong, but that's not the point. By that, I could see how someone COULD not like you, even though I really don't think it could happen with you. I'm just trying to show you how even NOT stepping on toes can grind someone's gears
I have a pretty good memory, and I believe that very late night/wee hour of the morning thread was the product of ls3mach. It was closed rather quickly.
This look familar?
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theBDub. I just think you are trying to be friends with everyone and maybe give too many people the benefit of the doubt. You will get it figured out one day.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-25-2011).]
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09:06 PM
cliffw Member
Posts: 36759 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Is that your new signature? If not, can I use it ?
Personally, I don't have an ignore list, nor would I ever. I'm not so important that I can't listen to what someone has to say, even if I might not like it.
Now if someone was chemically imbalanced, I might not respond... heh, but I'll read it.
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03:39 PM
Mar 27th, 2011
cliffw Member
Posts: 36759 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Personally, I don't have an ignore list, nor would I ever. I'm not so important that I can't listen to what someone has to say, even if I might not like it.
I can't even see the need for one. Likewise, caller ID is so I can see who called, not who is calling. Besides, I have the capacity to ignore what I wish to.
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Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I've got to be honest, I'm really sick of your **** . You think the rest of us inferior to you ... that's fine, I don't care.... but there's no reason why you have to make the rest of us miserable for it.
'Ya know, you are not the only one. Hence my standing against him making us miserable. It seems like jazzman revels in making enemies. Perhaps it is attention he is looking for. Perhaps not. James is not of the caliber to want negative attention. Perhaps he believes that he is right. Perhaps he needs a cause. I don't know.
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Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: If I could give up my Fiero for you to have a great life for the rest of your life, free of uncomfortable social situations, and you'd have tons of friends and plenty of money... I would do that, becuase THAT'S the kind of person I am. All I can say is that despite your nastyness to the rest of us here, I'd still help you out if you needed my help.
I wouldn't go that far but I would like to help jazzman. He has not made an enemy of me. I would like to help him and tried to do so in this thread (among others). Evidenced by my style here in this thread, I may not be qualified. Odd that he alleges being bullied here when he is the one doing it. I was standing up to the bully. It may not show, but I exercised a lot of restraint. Really, I did. I would still like to help the Jazzman and could take it to PM's but I would imagine that I am on his ignore list. So, I will post it here. This ... from an old thread of his (linky upon his request). A response from a friend of his.
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I knew this was going on for some time now but really wasnt forsure of how bad it had gotten. The last several events we have been to, I have noticed the change in attitude, apperance, ect. I am going to be staight forward with you James and tell you the main reason I see you have problems making and keeping friends. The number one reason is the way you talk to others and always take over the conversations. You always seem to wanna correct someone about what ever the subject is and then take the subject to the extreme. The easiest way I can think to explain it in the way others see it is--You always wanna be right and be the center of the converstion. I am sure this is not what your are trying to do when having a conversation with others but I can tell you, this is how it comes across. You already mentioned one of the others reason and thats being you seem to wanna always air your issues onto others. Why this is okay to do being everyone needs to get things out but you take it to the extreme once again. Almost like you are just looking to get attention and have others feel sorry for you. I dont think this is the reason but again this is how is comes across to others. You have to learn to be part of a conversation and not be the whole conversation. I am going to stop there and leave it at that with waht I have said. In no way am I trying to be mean or an azz but just trying to give you a insight on how others view you.
All I can say is that sums up our experience to a T.
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08:29 AM
PFF
System Bot
jetman Member
Posts: 7794 From: Sterling Heights Mich Registered: Dec 2002
[observation] Wow, this thread is like a microcosim of Detroit, so much stuff to go through to find a gem that's it's not worth it, (or not safe to post either?) [/observation]
Back on topic, I've mentioned 8-mile road many times in the past, that is the northern border of Detroit running east west. I'm telling you that you can take someone totally unaware on a drive south past 8-mile road and he/she would imediately recognize the change as you cross over. It's that stark.
For me up in Royal Oak, I'm seperated by 8-mile road (the border), City of Ferndale (the buffer) and I-696 expressway (the moat) (10-mile road) which is the southern most border of Royal Oak. The downtown Royal Oak city (10-1/2 mile to 11-mile) is beautiful, vibrant and vitually crime free, you can walk down any street in the city and feel safe, something you cannot do just 4 miles south in Detroit.
For Detroit's demise, it was a combination of corrupt city politics, social engineering projects, automakers getting lax, unions pricing themselves out of competition. I believe that even the past state governers are culpable too, back in the day, the state could command high taxes, but they should have looked at that as automakers decided on other states to build plants. As I'm thinking about it, everyone should have got together and said, there's a piece of the pie here for everyone but we have to make sure that the bakery stays here in Detroit. What a shame, there's a tremendous amount of assets going to waste and to other places.
On a positive note, our new state govenor Rick Snyder has said that he's focused on cities especially Detroit, possibly reviving it as an enterprise zone, working to stabilize and create enviroments condusive to business. Detroit mayor Bing is working his butt off trying to keep the city from sinking into the Detroit river. Sure there are incredible challanges ahead but I also think that peoples "eyes" have been opened by the shear extent of demise we're witnessing and hopefully we're going to learn and rebuild.
Edit, I added some mile roads for clarity and a sence of distance. ------------------ jetman Silver 86 SE 2M6 4-speed, with "check wallet light" Now fortified with 8 essential slices of bacon goodness
[This message has been edited by jetman (edited 03-27-2011).]
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11:31 AM
cliffw Member
Posts: 36759 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Originally posted by jetman: [observation] Wow, this thread is like a microcosim of Detroit, so much stuff to go through to find a gem that's it's not worth it, (or not safe to post either?) [/observation]
Now that is an astute observation.
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Originally posted by jetman: Back on topic, I've mentioned 8-mile road many times in the past, that is the northern border of Detroit running east west. I'm telling you that you can take someone totally unaware on a drive south past 8-mile road and he/she would imediately recognize the change as you cross over. It's that stark.
Wouldn't that be the southern border ? Just trying to get mental visual clarity.
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Originally posted by jetman: For Detroit's demise, it was a combination of corrupt city politics, social engineering projects, automakers getting lax, unions pricing themselves out of competition. I believe that even the past state governers are culpable too, back in the day, the state could command high taxes, but they should have looked at that as automakers decided on other states to build plants. As I'm thinking about it, everyone should have got together and said, there's a piece of the pie here for everyone but we have to make sure that the bakery stays here in Detroit. What a shame, there's a tremendous amount of assets going to waste and to other places.
On a positive note, our new state govenor Rick Snyder has said that he's focused on cities especially Detroit, possibly reviving it as an enterprise zone, working to stabilize and create enviroments condusive to business. Detroit mayor Bing is working his butt off trying to keep the city from sinking into the Detroit river. Sure there are incredible challanges ahead but I also think that peoples "eyes" have been opened by the shear extent of demise we're witnessing and hopefully we're going to learn and rebuild.
How 'bout plans to loosen union grip and to release the tax stranglehold ? Regarding taxes, I know it is hard to put the genie back in the bottle. So much more so when there are budget shortfalls on top of sinking revenues (economy and tax base). What are Governor Snyder's plans, or is it typical political psycho babble ? Thanks for your observations.
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02:34 PM
Gokart Mozart Member
Posts: 12143 From: Metro Detroit Registered: Mar 2003
How 'bout plans to loosen union grip and to release the tax stranglehold ? Regarding taxes, I know it is hard to put the genie back in the bottle. So much more so when there are budget shortfalls on top of sinking revenues (economy and tax base). What are Governor Snyder's plans, or is it typical political psycho babble ? Thanks for your observations.
As I said but it's hard to find, 8 MIle is the northern border of Detroit. I think the vibrant businesses on Woodward has kept R.O. healthy. Look at Southfield and Hazel Park, not to mention Dearborn, but that's on the south side. 696 isn't a straight line, too but it's good judge.
Snyder is a businessman first and he's already making waves as big as a tsunami in both the public and political fields.
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03:04 PM
jetman Member
Posts: 7794 From: Sterling Heights Mich Registered: Dec 2002
Detroit is south of 8-mile road, Royal Oak is north of Detroit.
The new state governor is not a politician, he is a sucessful business man, ran on a very positive platform, promised to reform the structure of the state so businesses can thrive.
Rick wants to work with the state public employees unions together as partners, however there was a proposed clause about suspending union contracts in the case of cities under extreme financial duress. While his proposed state budget shares the pain for everyone fairly, it does ballance out the budget for the next two years, a first in Michigan. The amount of money spent in programs will be based on the amount of value we get in return, another first in the state.
edit clarity
[This message has been edited by jetman (edited 03-27-2011).]
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03:04 PM
cliffw Member
Posts: 36759 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Originally posted by jetman: Rick wants to work with the state public employees unions together as partners, however there was a proposed clause about suspending union contracts in the case of cities under extreme financial duress. While his proposed state budget shares the pain for everyone fairly, it does ballance out the budget for the next two years, a first in Michigan. The amount of money spent in programs will be based on the amount of value we get in return, another first in the state.
A business man. Gotcha. Sounds promising. At least encouraging.
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Originally posted by jetman: Detroit is south of 8-mile road, Royal Oak is north of Detroit.
Yet you said ...
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Originally posted by jetman: The downtown city (10-1/2 mile to 11-mile) is beautiful, vibrant and vitually crime free, you can walk down any street in the city and feel safe, something you cannot do just 4 miles south in Detroit.
So 8-mile road is north of downtown. A shithole pocket between you and downtown Detroit. What's the south side of Detroit like ?
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03:28 PM
Gokart Mozart Member
Posts: 12143 From: Metro Detroit Registered: Mar 2003
Sorry Cliff, I went back and edited my post because I wasn't clear. Try this....
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The downtown Royal Oak city (10-1/2 mile to 11-mile) is beautiful, vibrant and vitually crime free, you can walk down any street in the city and feel safe, something you cannot do just 4 miles south in Detroit.
You have Detroit below 8-mile, then a little buffer zone then you have Royal Oak. The mile road numbers increase the further north you go.
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03:36 PM
jetman Member
Posts: 7794 From: Sterling Heights Mich Registered: Dec 2002
Originally posted by jetman: The mile road numbers increase the further north you go.
Gotcha, thanks. The same as the further south you go, correct ? Downtown being ground zero (pun intended). Lots of cities map out that way. Am I getting the correct image ? Everything south of North Eight Mile Road, to the southern Detroit city limits, is, uhh, not prime real estate ? Man, that's a lot of city. I was visualizing a large subdivision or maybe just a section of the city.
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03:51 PM
cliffw Member
Posts: 36759 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Gotcha, thanks. The same as the further south you go, correct ? Downtown being ground zero (pun intended). Lots of cities map out that way. Am I getting the correct image ? Everything south of North Eight Mile Road, to the southern Detroit city limits, is, uhh, not prime real estate ? Man, that's a lot of city. I was visualizing a large subdivision or maybe just a section of the city.
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Originally posted by Gokart Mozart:
East - West roads in the Detroit area are numbered. They basically start at 6 Mile and go up to I think 32 Mile. that far north for the most part is country. 8 Mile is the northern border of Detroit. 12 Mile is the unoffical border of reputable neighborhoods. Some areas have renamed to roads to improve their image - 16 Mile is also Quarton, Big Beaver and Metro Parkway.
Michigan Ave/Ford is 0 Mile, basically at downtown Detroit, Warren is 1 Mile, Joy - 2, Plymouth - 3, Schoolcraft - 4, after that there are numbered roads but some are renamed but it's not exactly in a grid.
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Originally posted by cliffw:
Budgetary service cuts or indigenous of the resident's moral character ?
Excellent post. I've been known to spend hours touring the city through the eyes of those photographers at Detroit Yes. Oh yeah, 5-mile road is Fenkel, 6-mile road is McNickels, 7-mile road ? and 8-mile road is Base Line road.
Excellent post. I've been known to spend hours touring the city through the eyes of those photographers at Detroit Yes. Oh yeah, 5-mile road is Fenkel, 6-mile road is McNickels, 7-mile road ? and 8-mile road is Base Line road.
7 Mile is only 7 Mile from 94 to 23.
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05:45 AM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 24140 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
On a positive note, our new state govenor Rick Snyder has said that he's focused on cities especially Detroit, possibly reviving it as an enterprise zone, working to stabilize and create enviroments condusive to business. Detroit mayor Bing is working his butt off trying to keep the city from sinking into the Detroit river. Sure there are incredible challanges ahead but I also think that peoples "eyes" have been opened by the shear extent of demise we're witnessing and hopefully we're going to learn and rebuild.
Even though I've never been there, I'd love to see Detroit be revived, but I can't help but wonder if maybe it's an impossibility? Everyone in the US knows about Detroit... and the first thing that comes to mind for most of them, is a dead city. A city that has had 3/4ths of it's population flee and / or leave (or even killed). Many people see it as if Somalia had been magicaly transported to the United States, and there is Detroit.
How do you revive a city that evoques only hugely negative thoughts? It's a major PR nightmare...
What do you do? It's almost at the point where Detroit needs to seriously close-in it's city-limits. I know they've been essentially "abandoning" neighborhoods because they can't afford to maintain the utilities there (I agree with their assessment), but they need to do more so that they can focus their tax dollars on areas that actually generate tax dollars. I mean, at this point, there are enough abandoned homes that if they could "consolidate" the citizens (if they want to) into the newer city limits, it could at least help compact the tax base, and reduce the overhead...
Just a though...
EDIT: You know, I just found my way to some Detroit gallery. There's so many old buildings / factories like the Packard plant, or the Ford Model T factory, and all those other buildings. Many of these buildings could be renovated at half the cost of a new building, and could be amazing office complexes. Detroit should have people dedicated just to trying to lure people back to Detroit. They should tell businesses... no state or city corporate tax for 5 years! Have they tried that? I mean, it's NOT like they're bringing in any income from it anyway, so what would it matter if they didn't bring in that income for another 5 years? The simple fact that people would MOVE there to work for these companies, and the tax that would be levied upon the people working would more than make up for it.
Detroit has such massive infrastructure, and such a low cost of living, that if they could eliminate the stigma that the union holds over the entire state, they could really bring back some business. It might not be manufacturing, but it could be computer / software / whatever...
[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 03-28-2011).]
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08:48 AM
Scottzilla79 Member
Posts: 2573 From: Chicago, IL Registered: Oct 2009
Unfortunately another problem that faces Detroit, is that every town and state in the Midwest is trying to attract tech business to make up for the loss in manufacturing. Also because it is clean and $$$$. You can imagine the pols with the $ in their eyes like in cartoons. We have ghost towns in the southwest which all were at one point boomtowns. I think the only thing keeping people in Detroit is welfare mentality.
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10:37 AM
Gokart Mozart Member
Posts: 12143 From: Metro Detroit Registered: Mar 2003
What do you do? It's almost at the point where Detroit needs to seriously close-in it's city-limits. I know they've been essentially "abandoning" neighborhoods because they can't afford to maintain the utilities there (I agree with their assessment), but they need to do more so that they can focus their tax dollars on areas that actually generate tax dollars. I mean, at this point, there are enough abandoned homes that if they could "consolidate" the citizens (if they want to) into the newer city limits, it could at least help compact the tax base, and reduce the overhead...
Just a though...
Mayor Bing plans to shrink Detroit Published: Feb. 25, 2010 at 3:24 PM
DETROIT, Feb. 25 (UPI) -- Detroit Mayor Dave Bing said he will relocate residents from downtrodden neighborhoods as part of his overall plans to revitalize by shrinking the city.
The mayor said Wednesday that plans for the Michigan city will save some areas and encourage residents to move from other neighborhoods, the Detroit News and WJR in Detroit reported.
"If we don't do it, you know this whole city is going to go down. I'm hopeful people will understand that," Bing said. "If we can provide an incentive to some of those folks that are in those desolate areas, they can get a better situation," Bing said. "If they stay where they are I absolutely cannot give them all the services they require."
Bing said he will concentrate on neighborhoods in which Detroit Public Schools plans to use $500.5 million in voter-approved bonds to build schools.
"Sounds like (creating) reservations to me. The citizens of the city of Detroit who built this city, the working class, didn't create this situation. You are diminishing the constitutional options people have by contending you have a crisis," said activist Ron Scott.
Bing's staff is using a study of the city by Data Driven Detroit indicated that approximately one in three parcels in the city are abandoned homes or vacant lots, the News and WJR reported. Detroit's population has decreased from to about 900,000 from 1.85 million in 1950.
"It's a huge challenge. No other city of Detroit's scale has yet to face up to what it needs to do and has accomplished it,"said John Mogk, a Wayne State law school professor.
[/yawn] are you trying to embarrass me, ... with my own words ? Try harder James, try harder. You can construe my words to mean anything you want, I don't care.
. There is no software in place to mark our posts, just threads. Since you want everybody to bow down to you, demand that Cliff write in this feature for you. Better yet, start your own forum. If you can't play with the big dogs, get back on the porch.
all you want. Rant ... 
all you want. Pull your hair out 
all you want. Hit the back button all you want. 
