Obama should have made cuts elsewhere, but this really was a smart move as a politician. The blame goes right to the Republicans, and Obama comes out as someone fighting for the elderly.
What I want is for SS to slowly fade away. It'll continue to be for years, but will be slowly fading.
Introduce a system to fail SS: All people 50+ will receive their benefits on time. People 45-50 wait until they are 68. 40-45 wait until 70. 35-40 wait until 75. 30-35 wait until 80. All under 30 do not ever see SS.
But we all keep paying until the system is completely over. Yes, the young'ns (me included) will pay a lot to never see it, BUT I'd rather have that than just "forget" about the debt any day. It should give everyone enough time to plan for their retirement. The people without much notice get it on time, and the people with increasingly more notice get increasingly more years to plan for.
I know it would be hard... but it's one of those "bit the bullet" plans. I can't think of another way to do it.
This blame game this administration is trying to pull is such BS. how stupid does he think the public is? For him to blame this on the republicans is like having your spouse come home with a bunch of crap from the store. You look at her and say uh...we cant afford this stuff, she knew that but bought it anyway. Then you take a stand and say no more buying crap, and the stuff you got has to go back to the store for a refund. Instead, she refuses, and says sh will just put it on the credit card. Who is the one "stone walling" and being negligent? The wife or the husband for saying it has to go back?Obama is shopaholic with the nations credit card.
Dub your young so this doesn't seem important to you, I hope one day its not but for most it is all they have to live on. I have worked all my life, I paid in all my life and for someone that probably hasn't paid in very long to just say let it fade away is like saying its ok for someone to come in my house and take all of my stuff because I don't need it. I deserve my money and I have worked hard for it and expect to receive it when I reach 65, I don't want to wait till I'm 75 to be paid back what is mine to begin with.
Social Security is not a benefit, its something I have paid into and I expect it to be there when it comes time to collect. Its mine and the government has been collecting it in good faith. I hope that I don't get screwed when I am eligible to get back MY MONEY
If I had a choice I would cash out and put my money to work some place else, or buy a mustang
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08:56 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Social Security is not a benefit, its something I have paid into and I expect it to be there when it comes time to collect. Its mine and the government has been collecting it in good faith. I hope that I don't get screwed when I am eligible to get back MY MONEY
If I had a choice I would cash out and put my money to work some place else, or buy a mustang
Social Security is not a savings plan. It's a tax. It may not have started that way, but that's what it is today. At best it's like paying in to buy an annuity, but with no guarantee of your future benefit amount.
Dub your young so this doesn't seem important to you, I hope one day its not but for most it is all they have to live on. I have worked all my life, I paid in all my life and for someone that probably hasn't paid in very long to just say let it fade away is like saying its ok for someone to come in my house and take all of my stuff because I don't need it. I deserve my money and I have worked hard for it and expect to receive it when I reach 65, I don't want to wait till I'm 75 to be paid back what is mine to begin with.
Social Security is not a benefit, its something I have paid into and I expect it to be there when it comes time to collect. Its mine and the government has been collecting it in good faith. I hope that I don't get screwed when I am eligible to get back MY MONEY
If I had a choice I would cash out and put my money to work some place else, or buy a mustang
I understand that, which is why a system needs to be in place. Did you catch that I would more-than-willingly pay into that system until I retired with the knowledge that I wouldn't see it? It's a huge deal, and I want everyone to benefit from what they've put in, but we NEED to act somehow. My plan isn't perfect and it's a complete rough sketch, but we can't keep putting it off like it's not a big deal. I've paid money into SS as well. Ya don't think I want that back? I do... but I realize I can't. Some people need to make sacrifices. I'm willing to do that.
quote
Originally posted by NickD3.4:
And those on disability who paid in?
Nick, this put all sorts of negative emotions through my head. Do you not think I want people to get SS? I do. You know that because my mom needs it. However, we need to come up with a system to eventually abolish the system. It just doesn't work how it should.
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09:11 PM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
Dub your young so this doesn't seem important to you, I hope one day its not but for most it is all they have to live on. I have worked all my life, I paid in all my life and for someone that probably hasn't paid in very long to just say let it fade away is like saying its ok for someone to come in my house and take all of my stuff because I don't need it. I deserve my money and I have worked hard for it and expect to receive it when I reach 65, I don't want to wait till I'm 75 to be paid back what is mine to begin with.
Social Security is not a benefit, its something I have paid into and I expect it to be there when it comes time to collect. Its mine and the government has been collecting it in good faith. I hope that I don't get screwed when I am eligible to get back MY MONEY
If I had a choice I would cash out and put my money to work some place else, or buy a mustang
Alot of people here our age and older want it gone, too. Of coarse, they already have their money all set for their old age. Unlike me and all the others that need that meager pitance to live on in their old age becouse they were foolish with their money, the ones that want it gone are also the ones that don't need it becouse they were resposable with their lives. I'm thinking I might be dead before I have to worry about it, but I would like to see them get their wish just so I can see the streets become clogged with the soon to be named 'untouchables'.
Once and for all we could get rid of all these people that are seen as the main drain on the system. I want to see with my own eyes this utopia that these others envision once the system is cleaned of all these 'leaches'.
Unless it is all just smoke & mirrors to hide something else.....
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 07-12-2011).]
Let me know how you feel after paying in for another 35 years. The Government will never stop taking SS, its never going away. The government may make it harder to collect but they will never stop taking it. So yes I would like to see my share paid back to me.
On another note I do have a retirement plan and I do have both a 401k and another retirement account that I will be able to collect if the economy doesn't totally collapse in the next 18 years
Let me know how you feel after paying in for another 35 years. The Government will never stop taking SS, its never going away. The government may make it harder to collect but they will never stop taking it. So yes I would like to see my share paid back to me.
On another note I do have a retirement plan and I do have both a 401k and another retirement account that I will be able to collect if the economy doesn't totally collapse in the next 18 years
I would love to have mine paid back to me too. But I know without a doubt that I will not see any SS money. I still have a long 45 years to go until I'm 65, and the system is bad enough as it is.
We, as a nation, need to be willing to make sacrifices to save future generations. Isn't that exactly what Conservatives have been saying to everyone else? Idk about you guys, but I mean what I say. I am fully willing to pay for SS and never see a dime, because I want to help take out that need. People like you and me that pay for our own systems don't need SS as much as others do, so I would think that we should deny it for the betterment of the country. You are different because it would be too early for you to make such big decisions, but since I know right NOW that I won't see it, I have plenty of time to plan, and plan I will.
It's like you guys are mad at me for suggesting that we slowly phase out something that has helped bankrupt the country.
The ones that want it gone are also the ones that don't need it becouse they were resposable with their lives.
Boonie, I don't even think it's like that. People over a certain age grew up knowing they would receive SS, and that it was an awesome system they could rely on. It was responsible to plan for that, because it was promised to you. Nobody can blame anyone for needing SS when they retire if they are over 30. But for those that still have so long, like me, time is still there to plan ahead knowing that it isn't all fine and dandy.
It was never about responsibility. The system just didn't work. Nobody's fault, except that we should have started a program to take it away sooner.
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09:39 PM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
Originally posted by theBDub: It's like you guys are mad at me for suggesting that we slowly phase out something that has helped bankrupt the country.
I am not. And you are in very strong company with your belief.
But I DO hate when people relate taking care of the elderly through S.S. as "bankrupting the country". If SOMETHING has to be cut from "bankrupting the country", of all the trillions of dollars wasted on other "expenditures", I would pick S.S. as the very LAST thing to cut.
I am not. And you are in very strong company with your belief.
But I DO hate when people relate taking care of the elderly through S.S. as "bankrupting the country". If SOMETHING has to be cut from "bankrupting the country", of all the trillions of dollars wasted on other "expenditures", I would pick S.S. as the very LAST thing to cut.
SS didn't bankrupt the country, politicians robbing it and using the money for something it wasn't intended for screwed it up. How many people are drawing SS that never paid in anything? Bankrupting the country by driving businesses over seas is why you don't live in the greatest nation on the planet. Capitalism is what made this country great, its what made our system work. When people took advantage of that they broke the system.
You cant get something for nothing, and don't ever take a millionaires word when he tells you you don't need something.
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10:07 PM
PFF
System Bot
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
This is nothing but political posturing to make the republican's look as though they are stone-walling and heartless. Obama's entire career is based on fear motivation and demonizing the opposition. This time (unlike the Clinton/Gingrich budget deal) he doesn't even have the support of his own party.
Exactly. This is just an attempt at demonizing the Republicans and putting the blame on them just as he has tried to lay the economic and unemployment situation on GWB. Seems no one remembers that Clinton borrowed all the money from Social Security and replaced it with IOU's. The thing that should be done is for the Social Security Administration to call the IOU's due. After all it's a legal debt owed to SS.
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10:32 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
SS didn't bankrupt the country, politicians robbing it and using the money for something it wasn't intended for screwed it up. How many people are drawing SS that never paid in anything? Bankrupting the country by driving businesses over seas is why you don't live in the greatest nation on the planet. Capitalism is what made this country great, its what made our system work. When people took advantage of that they broke the system.
You cant get something for nothing, and don't ever take a millionaires word when he tells you you don't need something.
It was doing well when it was a separate fund. Then along came LBJ with his Great Society that was going to raise the nation out of poverty. But there was no money for his grand scheme with the war. And the congress and senate voted to rob, I mean borrow from it. I remember thinking at the time that once they got their grubby little paws on it, that it was doomed.
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11:05 PM
USFiero Member
Posts: 4877 From: Everywhere and Middle of Nowhere Registered: Mar 2002
It's true. Politicking at its finest. There will be an eleventh hour reprieve, the debt ceiling will be raised, Italy bailed out and lets see - gold went from a sharp decline over the last two or three days to a new record high i the final hours of the stock market, so if history repeats - oil prices will come down. And it wasn't because of the administration releasing the oil reserves... I still am trying to fathom what the end game on that was. A quick/short term revenue boost for the government?
But I DO hate when people relate taking care of the elderly through S.S. as "bankrupting the country". If SOMETHING has to be cut from "bankrupting the country", of all the trillions of dollars wasted on other "expenditures", I would pick S.S. as the very LAST thing to cut.
It's not something any of us want to get rid of. I don't WANT to lose that guaranteed retirement fund... I just think I need to make that sacrifice.
I don't put blame anywhere with this. I just recognize how dangerous it will be to keep it around. We can't support it. I would definitely cut other things first... DEFINITELY. But, for this one to even start becoming realistic, we need to set up some sort of plan in the next few years to dwindle it out, and in the meantime, cut other expenditures (including war costs) because S.S. will take generations to truly be cut off. That's why, IMO, the plan needs to happen soon. It's not like other costs that we can just cut off with a budget cut. It needs to happen over decades.
So is SS really already out of funds, or are they just not going to pay out because the budget isn't written for that date range? Besides that paying gov employees to stuff envelopes? Basically a "shutdown". ?
Obama should have made cuts elsewhere, but this really was a smart move as a politician. The blame goes right to the Republicans, and Obama comes out as someone fighting for the elderly.
What I want is for SS to slowly fade away. It'll continue to be for years, but will be slowly fading.
Introduce a system to fail SS: All people 50+ will receive their benefits on time. People 45-50 wait until they are 68. 40-45 wait until 70. 35-40 wait until 75. 30-35 wait until 80. All under 30 do not ever see SS.
But we all keep paying until the system is completely over. Yes, the young'ns (me included) will pay a lot to never see it, BUT I'd rather have that than just "forget" about the debt any day. It should give everyone enough time to plan for their retirement. The people without much notice get it on time, and the people with increasingly more notice get increasingly more years to plan for.
I know it would be hard... but it's one of those "bit the bullet" plans. I can't think of another way to do it.
I think your plan stinks. I just want my money back that I have put in for 21 years, let ME figure out how I am going to pay my bills with it like it should have been all along.
So is SS really already out of funds, or are they just not going to pay out because the budget isn't written for that date range? Besides that paying gov employees to stuff envelopes? Basically a "shutdown". ?
Give me what I want or I will starve your grandmother.
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10:16 AM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
Give me what I want or I will starve your grandmother.
Yeah pretty much what we can expect when we allow ourselves (the public) to depend on the government to get us what we need. More govenrment involvement means more government dependence, means more government control, means the less we control our own lives and apparently even basic needs for survival. (Funds for food and shelter).
So if they don't pay the seniors, and the seniors can't pay their prescription bill, will the gov come in with IOU healthcare pmts to drug companies and hospitals, putting them out of business when the gov doesn't pay up? The wheel in the sky keeps on turnin..
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10:35 AM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
So is SS really already out of funds, or are they just not going to pay out because the budget isn't written for that date range? Besides that paying gov employees to stuff envelopes? Basically a "shutdown". ?
I'll bet many people aren't aware that the Democrats hadn't passed a budget for the last two years. Now it's the GOP's fault that people might not get their SS checks? How can people vote for these clowns???
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10:41 AM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Originally posted by 2.5: So is SS really already out of funds, or are they just not going to pay out because the budget isn't written for that date range? Besides that paying gov employees to stuff envelopes? Basically a "shutdown". ?
yes. kinda. its filled with IOUs. How do you think "the wars" were kept off the books? remember how flush the nation was with cash in 2000? everything was overflowing. everyone was building. everyone was hiring.
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10:42 AM
fierofool Member
Posts: 12914 From: Auburn, Georgia USA Registered: Jan 2002
Social Security is a pyramid scheme in that the last ones to enter will never see the benefits. There are several organizations across the country that have dropped out of Social Security. I believe at least 1 each in Texas and Georgia. Their contributions go into a privatized investment fund, but each individual's contribution belongs to them alone. I think the group in Texas was a teachers union or group. Of those that contributed equal to the amount they would have paid into Social Security, all are retiring with more retirement income than they were earning while working.
If a timeline was set that beginning on a certain date, all new workers would contribute to a private retirement fund and those already in the Social Security program would remain and receive SS benefits upon retirement, I think future retirees would do very well. Originally SS wasn't meant to be used as the sole retirement income. The problem is that so many people use Social Security as their only retirement. They don't want to take the responsibility of planning for their own financial well-being and monitoring and managing an investment account. Of course, many of the kids coming out of today's schools couldn't do it if they wanted to so they just leave it to the government, but that's another matter.
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11:27 AM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
Let me get this straight, he wants to hold checks from people who paid into social security? that money should have never been touched in the first place but the government did anyway. Now, instead of cutting on all the pet projects this president has pushed including Obama care which we cant afford, he is threatening SS? Unbelievable.
Not only is he threatening the elderly, he is threatening veterans, and the disabled. This makes me sick. Michele just gets home from a multi-million dollar trip, he refuses to cut any of the trillions in spending he has increased since he came into office, and yet he has the nerve to threaten SS!? If the American people are "entitled" to anything, it's SS. This is like putting your money into a CD account at the bank that is secure, and the bank decides to spend it to float other projects, and decides it cant pay you your deposited amount back.
Totally with this. The government stole the money we paid into social security to blow on other worthless stuff. Government was supposed to ONLY keep the interest for itself. If they dont have it, Ill take it in trade or take it out of any income tax I pay. Ill take a government owned home or car if they wanna trade out. Id also love a $15,000 income tax refund in lieu of getting my check.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 07-13-2011).]
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11:46 AM
PFF
System Bot
madcurl Member
Posts: 21401 From: In a Van down by the Kern River Registered: Jul 2003
You guys need to wait your turn. The Iranians, Afghanistanians, and Pakistani get there money first.
quote
Originally posted by Boondawg:
Exactly right. Starve the old here, feed the young there.
That's why I don't believe in ANY of this crap.
We are SO broke, but we still manage to send TRILLIONS to other countries. We ain't broke BY A LONG SHOT.
When we stop supporting other countries, THEN I will start to believe what I am hearing. How come no one is bitching at them to stop sending money we don't have to people we don't care about?
If I may add, this is all about the lobbyist and tax loop holes. Congress is stuck between the American who elected them and the lobbyist who actually control them. In the end-the lobbyist (Merchants) will win for those in office are joined at the hip.
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11:59 AM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
So is SS really already out of funds, or are they just not going to pay out because the budget isn't written for that date range? Besides that paying gov employees to stuff envelopes? Basically a "shutdown". ?
Technically, with our national debt - everything is out of funds. But that aside, SS has up until recently been an income producer for the government - brining in more than it paid out. Those surpluses would be used to purchase bonds (the IOUs you hear people mention) so the rest of the government spends the money but it still owes the debt to SS for the bond, with interest. So SS itself is nowhere near broke. It still has a large surplus of funds in bonds it holds. It would take the federal government defaulting on those bonds for SS to not have any money.
Those are US Treasury Bonds, backed by the full faith of the US government. If those are defaulted on, it would make all Bonds worthless. No one - NO ONE - would buy any US debt at that point. It's the single most damaging thing that could be done to our economy. If China or other investors stop buying bonds, the government can no longer finance our debt and everything comes crashing to a screeching halt.
That's why I said Obama's statement was so stupid. He didn't even comprehend the implications of what he was saying.
It seems to me like everything the GOP, Hillary and even Joe Biden were predicting 3 years ago would happen is happening. And everything Obama said would happen...uh, well, so much for the great experiment.
one more year! one more year! one more year!
surprised to see your post I thought we were rid of you here too bad your came back all you do is spread disinformation here
the neo-conned teapuppets are doing everything in their power to destroy our government just like the traitors they are
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12:48 PM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
how flush the nation was with cash in 2000? everything was overflowing. everyone was building. everyone was hiring.
We as a nation and individuals were "investing" then too, creating a bubble, then the bubble burst. Not the housing bubble but its all about bubbles created and burst it seems. Then we got used to living high on the hog as a nation, and when it became hard to do, we just kept charging everything. Ahh we'll pay it back later.
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12:52 PM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
current threats are all for the GOP and mostly from the teapuppet faction they and they alone want to shut down our government
the teapuppets want massive spending cuts that will cause a depression their whole plan is to obstruct and delay recovery I call that the actions of traitors
------------------ Question wonder and be wierd are you kind?
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01:06 PM
Old Lar Member
Posts: 13797 From: Palm Bay, Florida Registered: Nov 1999
I just want my money back that I have put in for 21 years, let ME figure out how I am going to pay my bills with it like it should have been all along.
