And where as the anthropologic influence that cause Global Warming in that era?
What does it say about today's fluctuation in temperatures and seasonal trends?
Everything that goes around comes around they say.
The earth is actually cooling right now, not heating up, but, it looks like we can't take credit for either.
Arn
It's confusing to me why you link organizations that support the Climate Change theories and try to cherry pick data and articles to agree with your own theories?
From the same site
quote
Virtually all climate scientists believe shrinking Arctic sea ice is tied to warming temperatures in the region caused by an increase in human-produced greenhouse gases being pumped into Earth's atmosphere. Because of the spiraling downward trend of Arctic sea ice extent in the last decade, some CU scientists are predicting the Arctic Ocean may be ice free in the summers within the next several decades.
The seven lowest maximum Arctic sea ice extents measured by satellites all have occurred in the last seven years, said CU-Boulder Research Scientist Walt Meier of the National Snow and Ice Data Center, who participated the latest study. "I'm not surprised by the new data because we've seen a downward trend in winter sea ice extent for some time now."
Scientists believe Arctic sea ice functions like an air conditioner for the global climate system by naturally cooling air and water masses, playing a key role in ocean circulation and reflecting solar radiation back into space, said Meier. In the Arctic summer months, sunlight is absorbed by the growing amounts of open water, raising surface temperatures and causing more ice to melt.
The sea ice has only been measured (by satellite) since 1979. That means anything happening now is statistically insignificant compared to the age of the planet.
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09:28 PM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
The sea ice has only been measured (by satellite) since 1979. That means anything happening now is statistically insignificant compared to the age of the planet.
quibble all you want there are older records nuke subs did a lot of ice surveys as they needed to know where the ice was thin or thick
the simple facts are less sea ice area and way thinner ice less old ice NW passage is open for special ships now and soon for massive regular traffic
btw ice is only one marker but even with a calming sun so a little less input now but temps are still going up world wide global warming is happening now but some fools will keep up the BS no matter what
quibble all you want there are older records nuke subs did a lot of ice surveys as they needed to know where the ice was thin or thick
the simple facts are less sea ice area and way thinner ice less old ice NW passage is open for special ships now and soon for massive regular traffic
btw ice is only one marker but even with a calming sun so a little less input now but temps are still going up world wide global warming is happening now but some fools will keep up the BS no matter what
The facts as which COFFEE BEANS sold out and all others love but the COFFEE BEANS hate always. So TRUTH always TRUMPs the BIG LIE DUMBocrats and LIEberals run But COFFEE BEANS procreate. Better than that. Question it.
For-rizzle.
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09:59 PM
Blacktree Member
Posts: 20770 From: Central Florida Registered: Dec 2001
The facts as which COFFEE BEANS sold out and all others love but the COFFEE BEANS hate always. So TRUTH always TRUMPs the BIG LIE DUMBocrats and LIEberals run But COFFEE BEANS procreate. Better than that. Question it.
For-rizzle.
HEY! That's my shtik!
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10:38 PM
Scottzilla79 Member
Posts: 2573 From: Chicago, IL Registered: Oct 2009
Clearly the solution here is to "rescue" the Polar Bears by putting them in Federally subsidized housing and providing them with free healhcare and food stamps.
Lettings polar bears swim is RACIST!!
I always heard black bears can't swim.
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11:22 PM
Jul 21st, 2011
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Yes, there are...of ships navigating the Northwest Passage at various times in history. Which means that Arctic ice has melted back before sufficiently to allow ships to sail around north of North America.
The facts as which COFFEE BEANS sold out and all others love but the COFFEE BEANS hate always. So TRUTH always TRUMPs the BIG LIE DUMBocrats and LIEberals run But COFFEE BEANS procreate. Better than that. Question it.
For-rizzle.
LOL
Well done (applause)
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01:44 AM
PFF
System Bot
Blacktree Member
Posts: 20770 From: Central Florida Registered: Dec 2001
just keep burning the ice is going away up top so lets BS about the bottom there is a long term fix
What we're doing (pumping out the oil and burning it) *IS* the long-term fix. It's the fix to the problem that was caused by the K-T event about 65 million years ago.
You see, before the K-T event, that Carbon was in the biosphere. But during the K-T event, much of the world's flora and fauna died. Much of the Carbon from all the dead lifeforms ended up in the ground, because there was little life around to make use of it. Basically, the biosphere got downsized.
Now, we're fixing the problem caused by the K-T event. That Carbon is rejoining the biosphere, where it belongs.
Let's see if MJ tells Gokart Mozart the reason he posted this and what he ment by it. And then use it to make a personal jab against him.
I mean, it's not just me, right?
I would have answered sooner, but I've been taking some time to help some of my neighbors get some hay in for the fall and winter, and supervising a young man that needs extra $ to make a trip to Chicago next month, so I hired him for a few days to cut some invasive trees, so I haven't been back to check on this thread--or post much anywhere else.
When Gokart posts something, he leaves no doubt why or from what stance and belief he is posting, and certainly doesn't try to deny his reasons. You driving 200 miles to get a peach is no different than me burning 7 piles of brush and logs (and i intend to burn 3 Xs that amt this fall) , but I make no excuses for my actions, freely admitting that I am not being "green" and have on numerous occasions stated I don't believe Al Gore and his Global Warming . Why? Because I know without a doubt, that most people here are well informed, realize they would see right thru any half hearted disclaimer I might attempt to make, and know full well they are neither ignorant, gullible, or naive. Nor, are you. This thread and the artcle posted is and always has been-- about global warming/Climate Change and it states as such right at the top of the MSNBC page. One has only, to look at either the header on that webpage, read the comments on the article, or just read the discussion here in this thread to verify that.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 07-21-2011).]
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05:06 AM
htexans1 Member
Posts: 9114 From: Clear Lake City/Houston TX Registered: Sep 2001
The latest government survey of polar bears roaming the vast Arctic expanses of northern Quebec, Labrador and southern Baffin Island show the population of polar bears has jumped to 2,100 animals from around 800 in the mid-1980s.
As recently as three years ago, a less official count placed the number at 1,400.
The Inuit have always insisted the bears' demise was greatly exaggerated by scientists doing projections based on fly-over counts, but their input was usually dismissed as the ramblings of self-interested hunters.
As Nunavut government biologist Mitch Taylor observed in a front-page story in the Nunatsiaq News last month, "the Inuit were right. There aren't just a few more bears. There are a hell of a lot more bears."
yes there are more bears on land where the people are that does not mean there are more bears in total just that the bears are moving off the thinning ice on to land typical smoke and mirrors spin on a real problem
------------------ Question wonder and be wierd are you kind?
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11:34 AM
blackrams Member
Posts: 32134 From: Covington, TN, USA Registered: Feb 2003
Well, it doesn't appear to me that we have much real evidence either way. More bears, fewer bears, doesn't sound like there's definitive evidence out there, just folks with their own agendas. Leave the bears alone, they'll be just fine (or not), either way, I'm not adopting one.
------------------ Ron
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 07-21-2011).]
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11:43 AM
Scottzilla79 Member
Posts: 2573 From: Chicago, IL Registered: Oct 2009
yes there are more bears on land where the people are that does not mean there are more bears in total just that the bears are moving off the thinning ice on to land typical smoke and mirrors spin on a real problem
Dude your brain is twisted in such a knot. I'm trying to not assume it has something to do with the deadhead logo. Why is it "science and fact" that the arctic pole is melting and getting warmer, but its "quibbling" to mention the antartic climate is getting colder? Why is it quibbling to apply the scientific method to climate research? 32 years out of 6billion is not even close to an acceptable sample size. The long winter and extreme heat this year has reminded me of the revolutionary period. The year of valley forge was referred to as the "year without a summer" and the signing of the declaration of independence was recalled as one of the hottest summers anyone at the time could remember. Of course this is just anecdotal. This was all pre-industrial revolution and only 200 years ago. Not that far away on the geologic scale. Hey maybe the Maldives have been completely submerged numerous times of the past 10000 or so years, just no one noticed!
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12:17 PM
Scottzilla79 Member
Posts: 2573 From: Chicago, IL Registered: Oct 2009
Well, it doesn't appear to me that we have much real evidence either way. More bears, fewer bears, doesn't sound like there's definitive evidence out there, just folks with their own agendas. Leave the bears alone, they'll be just fine (or not), either way, I'm not adopting one.
Why is it that "environmentalists" are totally opposed to intruding on nature except for when nature is wiping out something cute and cuddly.
Originally posted by Scottzilla79: Why is it that "environmentalists" are totally opposed to intruding on nature except for when nature is wiping out something cute and cuddly.
SHHH DON'T ASK LOGICAL QUESTIONS!!
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12:25 PM
Jul 23rd, 2011
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
..The polar bear population is the largest in the history of the world,natural selection, Just like easy living & comfort has increased unneeded,useless whining unhappy liberal population ..I club a few seal pubs & they scream,, no one complains when bears rip seal heart out or brutally drown them. ,,any maple leafers on the forum participated in the harp seal hunt & clubing ?? how do you buy the meat,it really looks like sporting fun.plus you are an enviromentalist keeping the population down !!Whap smack !!1 hmmm Bar B q Harp seal,,,hmmm tasty
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10:36 PM
Jul 28th, 2011
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
The polar bear cubs best adapted to swimming long distances will survive and breed. Their young should have a higher percentage of strong swimmers who also survive and breed. As the bears breed stronger swimmers who spend more time in the water because there is less ice, some will start hunting or scavanging while they are in the water without coming ashore to feed. Eventually they may become a breed of sea going bears who only come on land to breed. That's how a species adapts to a changing environment, it's called natural selection. Polar bears haven't always existed, because the arctic once had forests and dinosaurs. As the earths climate changed the bears in the area who could cope with the cold and ice were successful in breeding while those who could not died off, the successful ones became polar bears.
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12:54 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Oops...you really need to start reading past the headline.
quote
According to a transcript, provided by Ruch's group, Ruch asked investigator Eric May, during questioning of Monnett in February, for specifics about the allegations. May replied: "well, scientific misconduct, basically, uh, wrong numbers, uh, miscalculations."
[This message has been edited by newf (edited 07-28-2011).]
Originally posted by newf: Oops...you really need to start reading past the headline.
I did. You need to stop parsing articles for what you WANT to read, and grasp the significance of what you don't want to read. The scientist is under investigation for misconduct. Period.
I did. You need to stop parsing articles for what you WANT to read, and grasp the significance of what you don't want to read. The scientist is under investigation for misconduct. Period.
I see, so what is he accused of and by whom?
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10:29 PM
PFF
System Bot
Jul 29th, 2011
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
They also state in the article, "In the peer-reviewed article, they said they were reporting, to the best of their knowledge, the first observations of polar bears floating dead offshore and presumed drowned while apparently swimming long distances in open water. " and further, "They also added that the findings "suggest that drowning-related deaths of polar bears may increase in the future if the observed trend of regression of pack ice and/or longer open water periods continues." Then it goes on an says, "The article and presentations drew national attention and helped make the polar bear a symbol for the global warming movement. "
So this helped draw national attention and fueled more speculation for the global warming movement but there is no science here, they seen 4 dead polar bears and made a bunch of non-scientific assumptions (i.e. presumed, apparently, suggests, in science terms that is what they think not fact). Again showing the lack of data to support this model. I might add a few other interesting items from a scientific standpoint (I am a scientist in a different field), there has been no experiments to try to justify the model, people that are non-scientist keep saying its true, in fact, I don't see any facts that support the model. Usually when a model is devised it takes many experiments to prove or disprove, the jury it still out. More importantly, my understanding is they do not take into account of water vapor in the model which is a much more effective green house gas than CO2, in fact CO2 is a poor green house gas and has the lowest concentration of all green house gases, water vapor has a much higher concentration and is a much more effective green house gas.
[This message has been edited by montage (edited 07-29-2011).]
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02:23 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Cool....and I dont care WHAT the tempurature in Antartics is.........the planet has been here for about 67 billion years before my birth,,,it will probably be here 6 billion years after my death...but after I am dead, I wont really give much of a sheet about it...I will be too dead and too non-existant and a skeleton in the ground to CARE what happens then....I kinda think the planet will somehow survive my death........
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09:24 PM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Originally posted by montage: More importantly, my understanding is they do not take into account of water vapor in the model which is a much more effective green house gas than CO2, in fact CO2 is a poor green house gas and has the lowest concentration of all green house gases, water vapor has a much higher concentration and is a much more effective green house gas.
On that subject, you can check out what these papers have to say about water vapor/clouds and feedbacks
Potential Biases in Feedback Diagnosis from Observational Data: A Simple Model Demonstration (PDF) November 1, 2008 – by Roy W. Spencer & William D. Braswell
Satellite and Model Evidence Against Substantial Manmade Climate Change (this article supercedes “Has the Climate Sensitivity Holy Grail Been Found?”) December 27, 2008 – by Roy W. Spencer, Ph. D.
Global Warming as a Natural Response to Cloud Changes Associated with the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO) October 20, 2008 (updated December 29, 2008) – by Roy W. Spencer, Ph. D.
Cloud and Radiation Budget Changes Associated with Tropical Intraseasonal Oscillations (PDF) August 9, 2007 – by Roy W. Spencer, William D. Braswell, John R. Christy, and Justin Hnilo
I still find it amusing that people try to equate any change to us. So...the animals that had habit problems from the first ice age....was that from us? Then, what about the animals that adapted to the ice age, then lost habitats when it melted?
hmm...seems like things as usual in the history of our planet.
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11:59 AM
Aug 2nd, 2011
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
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