quote Originally posted by texasfiero: Get real folks! The Democrats promised spending cuts to Reagan. The Democrats promised spending cuts to G.H.W. Bush. THE DEMOCRATS LIED! There won't BE any spending cuts and the RINOs are too stupid to realize it.

Give me a break.

[This message has been edited by 8-P (edited 08-01-2011).]

Lets see, 2 wars that have no bussiness being in, can't Cut there, hundreds of billions in foreign aid to people that hate us, can't cut that, Social security payments to Non Citizens, Can't cut that, medical & education totally paid for non citizens, even Illegals, can't cut that, "subsidies" to companies that don't /shouldn't get it, can't cut there, billions to idiotic research of things like the mating habits of earthworms, NO, They have to attack Social security & medicare that people have paid into their entire lives ! Need to just STOP paying every congressman, every senator, cut ALL their medical, all their benefits, cut this bullshit (serve 1 term & get fully paid everything for the rest of their lives !!! STOP all payments to them UNTILL THEY STRAIGHTEN THIS ALL OUT ! They have been raping the public for way too long ! IF that was to happen, sure, some would "Walk", GOOD ! Plenty of people to take their place. Face it, people that get elected to congress, senate, president, ARE CHOSEN BY THE RICH,FOR THE RICH, TO DO WHAT IS BEST"ONLY" FOR THEM ! Then they give us the "choice" of "choosing " from "only the ones THEY want in office" ! it's all an "Illusion"! Do you really think you get to vote for a person that YOU KNOW will do a good job for YOU ?! come back to reality .

quote Originally posted by 8-P: Give me a break.

Perhaps you should re-read my post, for clarity.

quote Originally posted by texasfiero: Get real folks! The Democrats promised spending cuts to Reagan. The Democrats promised spending cuts to G.H.W. Bush. THE DEMOCRATS LIED! There won't BE any spending cuts and the RINOs are too stupid to realize it.

Then consider that G. W. Bush, NOT his father, ALSO had a Democrat Congress beginning with the election of 2006.

As ALWAYS, the primary justification for opposing austerity type spending cuts is simply to say "Someone else in the past also spent--so it's ok".

Not lost on anyone, that many of those who oppose austerity also oppose it in their own personal fiscal lives, and look to someone else, everyone else, anyone else (they don't care who as long as it isn't them) pays for their own excesses, as well as the excesses of the government.

Just kick the can on down the road--it'll be ok as long as none of the real and tough sacrifice takes place before THIS generation is dead and buried.

Again, I am (and have been) on record as being in favor of US paying off the debt NOW, drastically reducing the deficit, and doing so thru huge spending cuts accross all sectors as well as equally huge tax increases accross every single adult demographic.

..The black caucus destroyed America financially with the Morgage loans to blacks who could not pay ,, then hispanic & poor whites who could not pay were allowed to have morgage..NOW WE PAY & PAY
..Now scumbag slithering liar weasel ANTI AMERICAN Obama wants to do it again,, the democrats have destroyed America financially ,now the banks are TO blame ,, what a sad joke..

The price will be very high to you,, the present congressional plans are a joke that solve nothing,, The democrats hope to throw more money at??my fave this year schrimp on treadmill..
the dems want to cut defence, so more can go to scum waste programs
every American should pay federal income tax ,,this would stop a lot of crap
most of you squeeks have forgot 9/11,EXCEPT FOR A FEW DAYS EACH YEAR..If only the twin towers fires heat forced you to jump you might remember?

People demand "FREE'' goverment money,, what stupid loosers.

[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 08-01-2011).]

such "wisdom", You must have been on Casy Anthony's jury !

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: You choose to pretend you have some control in how the big picture unfolds. I do not.

Perhaps I am mistaken. I thought from previous posts that you said you vote.
I know for a fact participation affects how anything unfolds.

There are some things in life we must accept as uncontrollable. The weather is the first thing to come to mind, women would be second.
Our government is not included on that list. One should remember, they work for us.

------------------
Ron

So Joe Biden has referred to the Tea Party folks as "terrorists" during these negotiations. Some people are offended by that, but not me. I *want* him to be "terrified" of me. He SHOULD be terrified of me. If I have my way, he and his boss and the whole lot of 'em will be out on their asses soon. So yeah, be afraid Joe, be very very damned afraid.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: I'm winning. I live in the freest country in the World.

Heh ... a quick Google ...

quote http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration The United States' incarceration rate is, according to official reports, the highest in the world, at 737 persons imprisoned per 100,000 (as of 2005).[7] A report released in 2008 indicates that in the United States more than 1 in 100 adults is now confined in an American jail or prison.[8] The United States has 4% of the world's population and 25% of the world's incarcerated population.

quote Originally posted by Taijiguy: So Joe Biden has referred to the Tea Party folks as "terrorists" during these negotiations. Some people are offended by that, but not me. I *want* him to be "terrified" of me. He SHOULD be terrified of me. If I have my way, he and his boss and the whole lot of 'em will be out on their asses soon. So yeah, be afraid Joe, be very very damned afraid.

I sure if he had his way he would march them all off to the ovens before the next election.
Anything to hold on to their power.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Perhaps I am mistaken. I thought from previous posts that you said you vote. I know for a fact participation affects how anything unfolds.

Participation doesn't guarantee control, but it does ensure influence, and the more one is activiely engaged, the more influence one has. The more one excerts their influence, the more real control one has. All it takes, is to look at 2 obvious examples.
1. Activism during the 60s and 70s caused direct changes in both the way govt and the population looked at race issues.
2. The last election, a grassroots congressional upheaval by the Tea Party movement changed the legislative ratio, ended a solid majority control of both houses, and resulted in discussion, legislation, and spending changes that would NOT have taken place otherwise. Like the example in #1, for the majority of Americans, this forced change will have profound effects for decades to come.

And of course in Texas, the demise of the largest planned eminent domain landgrab in state history was the infamous new Trans Texas Corridor which was thwarted and changed it to a simple highway upgrade using existing highway right-of-ways--just by the public outcry, public meetings, and voting out those who strongly supported the land grab.

In Houston last Nov, , someone went to the trouble to get the existing red light cameras on a city wide binding referendum and the citizens voted them out of existance, and even tho it is still tied up in courts, city officials are all adamant that they will follow the will of the people.

For a very few, the changes above and others being discussed, had zero effect, but for those few, no change will ever can have any effect, as they spend their lives concerned only in regards to what they can get from a govt and nation. They simply ride the wave of change regardless of how high that wave is or from whence it came. They care little what actually happens, as long as they get what they deem their own fair share of the pie.

It is true however, that some have absolutely no control over govt, but that is only because they choose to have absolutely zero influence and input on govt. It's impossible to have influence or control if said govt doesn't even know you exist except in the most minimal of ways. Vote and pay taxes. One is a fundamental right--the other is mandantory. Neither, makes much difference if not followed up with due diligence, activisim and participation.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: For a very few, the changes above and others being discussed, had zero effect, but for those few, no change will ever can have any effect, as they spend their lives concerned only in regards to what they can get from a govt and nation. They simply ride the wave of change regardless of how high that wave is or from whence it came. They care little what actually happens, as long as they get what they deem their own fair share of the pie. It is true however, that some have absolutely no control over govt, but that is only because they choose to have absolutely zero influence and input on govt. It's impossible to have influence or control if said govt doesn't even know you exist except in the most minimal of ways. Vote and pay taxes. One is a fundamental right--the other is mandantory. Neither, makes much difference if not followed up with due diligence, activisim and participation.

The most concisely profound statement I have read in a long time.

Why the big flap about raising the debt limit? Reagan raised it 18 times during his presidency. Lou nailed it in his post, it doesn't matter what political party they claim to represent, politicians really represent the money they were elected with. That includes the Tea Party republicans as well. Eventually they will try to take control of the republican party, the infighting and repercussions of the revolution could paralyse the republicans and give the democrats a defacto majority as the republican establishment tries to get the backing of the democrats to block the Tea Party. True Believers give me the willies.

quote Originally posted by Grandaddy84SE: Why the big flap about raising the debt limit? Reagan raised it 18 times during his presidency. Lou nailed it in his post, it doesn't matter what political party they claim to represent, politicians really represent the money they were elected with. That includes the Tea Party republicans as well. Eventually they will try to take control of the republican party, the infighting and repercussions of the revolution could paralyse the republicans and give the democrats a defacto majority as the republican establishment tries to get the backing of the democrats to block the Tea Party. True Believers give me the willies.

This was the largest one in history.
The fact that it was done so many times before and no one paid a bit of attention is one of the reasons we are in this mess.
So the fact this one was brought to the public's attention, mainly do to the stubbornness of the oh so hated Tea Party is a good thing.
Much of the country is now paying attention, but maybe just a bit too late.

Anyone else notice the DOW is down another 265 points today?
It's now the longest losing streak since the 2008 crash. In the last 8 days, the DOW is down 858 points.

I'm so glad Obama got a fresh credit card. I'm sure that will help.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Anyone else notice the DOW is down another 265 points today? It's now the longest losing streak since the 2008 crash. In the last 8 days, the DOW is down 858 points. I'm so glad Obama got a fresh credit card. I'm sure that will help.

yup.
this entire "debt limit" horsecrap has done nothing but show how useless our elected representatives are.
every last one of them put on a nice big show, but in the end - only helped themselves.

------------------

1985 Fiero SE - Plain Red 3.1 V6 Coupe
Engle18Cam DIS 4.10-4spd 7730 WCF Long Tubes Borla
D.A.M.M. - Drunks Against Mad Mothers

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: yup. this entire "debt limit" horsecrap has done nothing but show how useless our elected representatives are. every last one of them put on a nice big show, but in the end - only helped themselves.

You're right, looks like they only kicked the bucket down the road. Next election, I'm kicking some butts out of office, hit the brick road baby, we're voting you out. They put everyone through an emotional and scary rollercoaster with this crap, I'm POed at the whole lot of them. They should have had the stones to do the right thing, now they're going to get voted out for being spineless wimps. I've got a votors card, I've got a voice, I'm going to be heard.

quote Originally posted by jetman: You're right, looks like they only kicked the bucket down the road.

I am still analyzing this, but no matter what I conclude, you are right. The funny thing The appalling thing is, no one can claim a win. Neither the dumbocrats, the repulsivecans, the Senate, The House of Representatives, nor the President. Yet Nobama touts that jobs are priority one ... as soon as Congress gets back from a ?five? week break, .
Jobs will create revenue. Jobs will create capitalist profits which also create government revenue. A five week break ?

quote Originally posted by cliffw: I am still analyzing this, but no matter what I conclude, you are right. The funny thing The appalling thing is, no one can claim a win. Neither the dumbocrats, the repulsivecans, the Senate, The House of Representatives, nor the President. Yet Nobama touts that jobs are priority one ... as soon as Congress gets back from a ?five? week break, . Jobs will create revenue. Jobs will create capitalist profits which also create government revenue. A five week break ?

cant really analyze it - being that is isnt actually finished yet. they just agreed to "look at it later", and raise the limit.

yes - there are no winners - except those azzhats in DC. they get to take a long break after getting nothing done......

quote Originally posted by cliffw: I am still analyzing this, but no matter what I conclude, you are right. The funny thing The appalling thing is, no one can claim a win. Neither the dumbocrats, the repulsivecans, the Senate, The House of Representatives, nor the President. Yet Nobama touts that jobs are priority one ... as soon as Congress gets back from a ?five? week break, . Jobs will create revenue. Jobs will create capitalist profits which also create government revenue. A five week break ?

Problem is they will both say they won, just to save face.

You know what a good start is?
Our entire senate and congress at the bottom of the ocean.

They rate right up there with lawyers and used car salesmen. They are all despicable and liars.

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't.

Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

As the stock market collapses, is this still Bush's fault? Or is the fault of the fool that signed in this budget debacle into law?

Congress feels that they won, but the American taxpayer lost..that is the 50% that pay taxes.

Did anyone notice the language in the bill (which is not a budget, btw - they still haven't had one of those in over 2 years) that says the cuts required by the bill can be met by a combination of "spending reductions and tax reform?"

According to Washington, a tax increase is a spending cut.
Get ready to bend over farther than Obama greeting King Saud.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Did anyone notice the language in the bill ...

Been too busy to hunt and read it. Linky ?

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 08-03-2011).]

Don't have one right now. I read it at home last night.

Ok, thanks.

Uh....how is a "tax cut" defined as "spending" on your planet?

quote Originally posted by Toddster: Uh....how is a "tax cut" defined as "spending" on your planet?

Democrats will let the Bush tax cuts expire. That will be an offset to the deficit....thus....a spending cut!

I know...but remember that No-tax Timmy is in charge here!

Hello, cuts in projected spending is not the same as cutting the budget that you have this year to spend in your dept. This is like saying " I didnt buy that Ferrari I got the BMW instead, so I saved $150.000.00 " When the VW would have been fine!

[This message has been edited by normsf (edited 08-03-2011).]

Nothing will change untill they are ALL thrown out ! All Dems, All Reps, all tea partyers ! Then when they are all replaced, there needs to be a watchdog to keep em honest. AND, above all else, "HANG" all the Lobbyists ! There in itself is a Major part of the problem, "BRIBERY". They don't Enforce anything. if all the politicians taking bribes were "Locked up", Washington would be empty ! !

We need to get this into our heads: We are all fallible.

If you had worked your butt off to make a name for yourself and stand out among the others to have what it took to just get a name on a ballot somewhere... then you went out and won the public over with hours of hard work and public communications, you'd be the same person they are. No, we are not all corrupt. No, it's not okay to be corrupt. They aren't all corrupt. And, I wholeheartedly disagree with the notion that they are some separate species that needs to be eradicated.

Each side believes what they are voting for. Democrats actually believe their opinions are the answer. Republicans actually believe their opinions are the answer. So when the opposing team says "No, we don't want to do it that way", then there is conflict. It's not a happy-go-lucky system in which everyone agrees with everything.