Yup having someone to fear/hate seems to focus lots of people on the "important" stuff for sure.
Yeah, I remember when all those stupid alarmists kept talking Nazi this and Hitler that. But we were too smart to start building more planes and guns. America had the 19th largest army in the world in 1941 and we were not going to let any war mongers get us to prepare better in case the worst happened. So 40 million died when millions of them could have been saved if we were better prepared. We sure showed them. Clearly it could never happen again because humanity has such a great track record of learning from its mistakes.
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12:09 PM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
People who ridicule Chinese efforts in this area were also the ones who ridiculed Japanese cars in the early days. I suspect the current ridicule will be as much a mistake as that other ridicule was.
That ridicule wan't really a mistake, the product was lacking at the time. But it won't be lacking forever.
Yeah, I remember when all those stupid alarmists kept talking Nazi this and Hitler that. But we were too smart to start building more planes and guns. America had the 19th largest army in the world in 1941 and we were not going to let any war mongers get us to prepare better in case the worst happened. So 40 million died when millions of them could have been saved if we were better prepared. We sure showed them. Clearly it could never happen again because humanity has such a great track record of learning from its mistakes.
First of all, you must be really old if you remember that. j/k
But seriously that's a huge "could have" there. What exactly is your point?
[This message has been edited by newf (edited 08-12-2011).]
I agree--they're probably building up their naval technology to sail over to some landlocked nation that doesn't currently project THEIR power worldwide.
Such as?
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04:04 PM
blackrams Member
Posts: 32127 From: Covington, TN, USA Registered: Feb 2003
Transylvania. Their sworn enemy are vampires ya know...That carier will sprout wheels when it reaches the shores of Europe, then roll deep inland and start flinging pointed wooden stakes by the tens of thousands . The vampires have secret cells working even in this country ya know.
First of all, you must be really old if you remember that. j/k
But seriously that's a huge "could have" there. What exactly is your point?
I remember the Roman conquest of Europe too. I wasn't there but I read about it and tried to apply the lessons of those who were to my thnking today. Men like Cicero, for example. But I digress. The point is that it is NOT a huge could have. Every time someone leaps up and yells, "it could never happen again", "we are enlightened in THIS generation", "Can't we all just get along"...I want to gouge my eyes out at the rampant ignorance. YES...It CAN happen again if we are not vigilant against it. NO, we are no more enlightened than Chamberlain was. In fact, I would say in many respects we are a stupider and less thoughful society today. And NO, we can't all just get along as long as there is ONE man who wants to take by force my labors, my life, or my property. And if I am not ready to tell that person NO...at the point of a big ass gun if necessary, then it is simply a matter of time, not a question of if, that I will lose everything I value.
My grandfather fought the Nazis and he is alive to this day. Within his lifetime the Holocaust happened. Within my own parent's lifetime, it happened. YES...it can happen again.
Strive for peace, be ready for war.
[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 08-12-2011).]
Transylvania. Their sworn enemy are vampires ya know...That carier will sprout wheels when it reaches the shores of Europe, then roll deep inland and start flinging pointed wooden stakes by the tens of thousands . The vampires have secret cells working even in this country ya know.
While many may scoff this off, the fact China has had aggressive language and skirmishes with us, Taiwan, Japan, and other allies at sea is concerning to me. They are building up their military power fast and furiously with massive economic growth top boot. This is why we develop fighters like the F-22. If we don't wake the hell up and get a handle on our situation we may see a clash between titans in the future, and it won't be pretty.
While many may scoff this off, the fact China has had aggressive language and skirmishes with us, Taiwan, Japan, and other allies at sea is concerning to me. They are building up their military power fast and furiously with massive economic growth top boot. This is why we develop fighters like the F-22. If we don't wake the hell up and get a handle on our situation we may see a clash between titans in the future, and it won't be pretty.
Didn't the chinese surface one of thier subs in the middle of one of our navy's excersises out in the waters near japan?
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ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK
12.3 is faster than a 13.2
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11:05 AM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
Didn't the chinese surface one of thier subs in the middle of one of our navy's excersises out in the waters near japan?
Yes, it was a diesel electric sub. It was a stunt that means little. The idea was that they could pop up in the middle of our exercises without being spotted. In reality, they can not do this very often. When a D/E sub is submerged it has a very slow rate of travel on battery power and can not last too long before needing to recharge. But it is about as silent as you can get. The Chinese obviously added multiple rows of batteries and fully charged them before leaving port under secrecy with a skelton crew on 100% silent running with one mission, pop up in the middle of KNOWN U.S. exercises as a stunt. They pulled it off but it took all their resources to do it.
They could never actually surprise us in the real world. In fact, if a Chinese sub leave port on her diesel engines...we know where it is from that moment on. The Chinese have over 40 subs and we know where every one is at any given time under normal circumstance.
The newest sub technology that is more concerning is LOX propulsion. The Swedes have a new liquid oxygen engine system that can allow a sub to stay submerged for 30 days and run almost totally silent. That makes it serious competion for nuclear subs.
The Swedes have a new liquid oxygen engine system that can allow a sub to stay submerged for 30 days and run almost totally silent. That makes it serious competion for nuclear subs.
Oh My Goodness! The Swedes? What have we ever done to them?
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06:30 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
Oh My Goodness! The Swedes? What have we ever done to them?
LOL...well, we keep putting their women in bikini contests.
Actually, Sweden has a ship yard in Malmo that produces submarine shell designs for several navies of the western world. It is one of the countries biggest exports. I do not know if they have any plans to sell LOX propulsion to the Chinese but in the end, it is not very complicated technology for the Chinese to copy on their own anyway.
"The pace and scope of China's sustained military investment have allowed China to pursue capabilities we believe are potentially destabilizing to regional military balances, increase the risk of misunderstanding and miscalculation and may contribute to regional tensions and anxieties," Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for East Asia Michael Schiffer said.
"Such capabilities could increase Beijing's options to use military force to gain diplomatic advantage, advance its interests or resolve military disputes in its favor."
The annual survey of defense and security issues involving China has produced a litany of short-term and ongoing concerns in recent years. Past reports have focused on increased overall spending on the military; the enhanced range of ballistic and anti-ship missiles; the military's lack of transparency and expanded power-projection capability; and increased spending on efforts to break into U.S. military computers.
