Mach v altitude and temp chart

Slightly off topic but here's a speech from a pilot:

Thank you so much for the invitation to speak today. As many times as I have done so around this country, I still admit to a slight case of butterflies as I hear my name introduced…..which is really no problem as long as you get them all to fly in close formation.

I am not here today as some war hero, or famous person. All I did was leave my plane in the jungles of Viet Nam one day, and was lucky enough to survive the experience. You know, they say a good landing is one you can walk away from, and a great landing is when you can use the airplane again. Well I did neither, and I address you today, as simply a fellow American citizen.

Since the events of September 11th, I hear a lot of people saying “God Bless America”. I believe God has blessed America, in many ways, from the very inception of this nation over 200 years ago.

What were the odds that at the very time the colonies decided to break from the British Empire, that there would be a group of men in the new world, with the intellect and vision to shape that process? God truly blessed us with the collective perceptive genius of men like Jefferson, Adams, Washington, Franklin, and others, who all came together, in those colonies, at the exact moment in history when a nation was born. And who would have bet that a group of upstart colonists, with little resources, and even less of an army, could take on, and defeat, the mighty British Empire? But they did, and a country was born.
And when the fabric of this country was torn with a great Civil War, God Blessed this nation with the wisdom and leadership of a President Lincoln, who made the difficult choices, so that this nation would survive as one.

And when the United States was thrust into World War II with a vicious attack on our forces at Pearl Harbor, God Blessed this nation with a populace that rose to the challenge, both on the home front and the battlefield. No finer chapter in human history can be told of sacrifice, courage, and resolve, than the countless stories of American soldiers, sailors, airman and Marines during four years of the greatest global conflict the world has ever known. Some of you here today were a part of that generation that we now appropriately refer to as “the greatest generation”. If World War II left us scarred with its inhumanity, then it also left us the legacy of hope by those who made so many sacrifices, and fought to victory, to insure the flame of freedom still burns.

Yes, I believe God has blessed this nation in many ways, although sometimes we forget just how fortunate we really are………and now, after a horrific attack on our homeland, we find ourselves embattled in a war once again. And yet, there are many who seem unsure of the response we should take. Today, we honor so many who have given their lives, in defense of this country……row upon row of tombstones, silent vigils to their ultimate sacrifice. If the dead could speak today, they would tell you that all it takes for evil to succeed in the world if for good people to stand by and do nothing. They would emphatically declare to you that you negotiate with the enemy with your knee in his chest and your knife at his throat. And they would remind you that those who forget their history, are condemned to repeat it.

We are a nation guilty of forgetting these lessons. Had we learned them better, our cemeteries would be less full.

We fought a Cold War for so long, that perhaps we became weary and complacent, and when we won that war, we became soft. We indulged ourselves in the notion that the world was all-safe, and we thought a booming economy was ample substitute for a strong military. Did we really think electing self-serving politicians would make us stronger as a nation? Somehow we came to accept the notion that freedom was free. It never has been. The price of freedom has always been eternal vigilance. We need to understand that there are those in the world who would destroy us because our way of life threatens their quest for world domination.

This place we love, that we call America, is not just a place, it is an idea. An idea manifested in its people, a very diverse people. I heard a college student on TV the other day say that if a mandatory draft was imposed, he would head for Canada, as he had already mapped out his career, and serving in the military was just not in his plans.
Not in his plans…….I wonder if the young boys on the beaches at Normandy had other plans, as their dead bodies washed ashore in a sea of red. I’m sure the young men who found themselves in the jungles of Viet Nam, watching their buddies die in an unnamed rice patty fighting an unseen enemy had other plans. I guess those men and women surprised at Pearl Harbor one morning had all their plans rearranged in ways they could never have imagined. The people at the World Trade Center have no more plans.
But in this diversity, also comes our strength as a nation. All may speak, and the will of the majority will be heard. Though we may disagree, we are all Americans and live under the same flag. That beautiful flag that has become such a symbol of freedom to the world. For those who have fought on foreign soil, they understand better than most the importance of this flag, and the strength derived from its presence.

This flag was carried in the Revolutionary War, though it had many less stars, by men too weary, and under equipped to expect victory, but persevere they did, and a nation was born, with a new flag.

This flag battle worn and tattered, flew high on the mast of John Paul Jones’ ship, when he showed the enemy what true resolve was.

And brave men, raised this flag on a Godforsaken island in the Pacific called Iwo Jima, and became part of the most memorable photograph of the 20th Century. That picture of our flag, raised high by our Marines during the bloodiest battle in their history, did more for the morale of the American people than any other picture or film of the entire war. This weekend marks the Marine Corps birthday, and to all those Marines in the crowd, I salute you, and thank you for your service. For those of you who have not toured the Marine Memorial in Washington, DC, I highly recommend it. Inscribed on the marble sides of the monument you will find the words, “When uncommon valor was a common virtue”. You will also see the stars and stripes waving proudly from its top.

This flag of ours was even carried to the moon, by men with a vision, and the courage to see it through. And this same flag has been raised amidst the rubble of the World Trade Center, as a reminder to those who would think they could destroy this nation so easily.
I can tell you personally, that just seeing that red, white, and blue banner can mean so much. As I lay in a hospital bed, unable to move, I can clearly remember seeing out the window, the very large Garrison flag, flown on Sundays, waving majestically from its pole. Just seeing it gave me an inner strength and motivation that I know, in some way, helped me to be where I am today. I can also remember years later, while fighting terrorism in Libya, my backseater and I were piercing the sky above Mohammar Khaddafi in our SR-71, dodging the missiles he sent after us. As we turned toward the Mediterranean, I clearly recall the reflection of the American Flag patch on the arm of my space suit, visible in the rear view mirror. Now, don’t ask me why we had rear view mirrors on the world’s fastest jet, I can assure you, no one was gaining on us. But just seeing it gave me a sense of security, and reminded me that we were a part of something much bigger, and better than the land we had just imprinted with our sonic boom.

I have always found it interesting that those arguing for the right to burn the flag, are usually the least willing to defend those rights, and are made free and kept so by better men than themselves. When I see the rows of American flags today at cemeteries across this nation, I know those we are honoring, if they could speak, would tell you thanks and how proud they are to have that flag flying by their name.

This will not be an easy struggle for us, this new type of terrorist war. I pray for our leaders. Some have questioned if President Bush is up to this great challenge. I recall the quote of Admiral “Bull” Halsey in World War II when he said, “There are no great men, only great circumstances, and how they deal with those circumstances will determine the outcome of history.” I believe God has blessed this nation with good men, strong men, in leadership positions today. Men not afraid to make the difficult decisions. Men who understand that nothing in our history tells us that preserving and protecting this free nation would ever be easy.

America is only as strong as its people. We are the caretakers of all that our forefathers created, and fought for. It is now our turn to show resolve and preserve those precious freedoms that we have for too long taken for granted. The enemy that knows it cannot defeat us on the battlefield, will try to defeat us through fear and dissension amongst ourselves. Wars are not won only on the field of battle, but are won by the will of the people.

I take heart that this nation will be strong. Even while the first shot was still being fired, brave Americans aboard Flight 93 took a stand and fought back. They were the first heroes of this war. In a terrorist war of this type, we are all soldiers. We must remain resolved, focused, and committed to defeating this most heinous of enemies. While our soldiers fight the enemy on his home front, we must endure on our own home front, the tiresome wailings of liberal newscasters who seem to think that our military is the enemy, as they over-scrutinize every move they make, smugly reporting every civilian casualty as if it represents a failing of some sort. We must also endure a media that is capable of only criticizing our own government. Personally I believe we are winning the war on both fronts.
And we must win, as this is truly a nation that must be preserved. We represent the freedom that so many people on this earth seek. It is why everyone wants to come to this country. But so few can really understand this nation. We are a two-edged sword, united but full of disagreement. We exercise capitalistic greed frequently, yet have been the most gracious humanitarian nation on earth. We are the high-tech of Silicon Valley and the heartland of the Midwest. An impatient people, yet tremendously resilient in difficult times.
I can remember, after the Cold War was over, speaking with a former Soviet Mig pilot. He marveled over how our country could produce a plane such as the SR-71. He said the image he had of our country was one of decadence, Hollywood, and discarded products. He could not understand how we could have built a plane with such integrity that would last so long and remain the world’s record holder in speed and altitude for all these years. I told him that indeed, we were a nation of excesses, and even ignorance at times, but that when men are free, all things are possible.

With all our faults, warts and all, we are still the greatest nation on earth…..
From the Declaration of Independence and the Monroe Doctrine, to Disneyland and Donald Duck…..we are the USS Missouri pounding enemy shores, flying the stars and stripes, to Mickey Mantle in pinstripes pounding American League pitching……..from John Phillip Sousa to Elvis Presley…….we are Mark Twain, and Microsoft……….Charles Lindbergh and Paris, to Charley Brown and Peanuts……..we are a nation that went from Kitty Hawk to Tranquility Base, in less than 70 years. Who can truly understand this greatness that is America, unless they have lived it? And who would dare to try and destroy us?

As we pause today to remember those heroes of our past, it should give us strength as we recall their commitment and resolve. Let us also remember today, those veterans who are still alive, and give them our thanks before they too pass from our ranks. And all those men and women serving on active duty today, far from home, performing their duty with little thanks or recognition. Before you leave today, take time to walk around the grounds and view the planes on display, and appreciate what they meant in our nations history, and think about the crews who flew them and helped to win victories in WW II, Korea, Viet Nam, and played intrical parts in the winning of the cold war. Each one has a story.

The preservation of this nation is in our hands- there will be no points for second place. Wave your flag proudly today, salute it, honor it. Long may it wave.
Thank you.


Brian Shul, Major, USAF, Ret’d
11 Nov 2001
March ARB Air Museum

quote Originally posted by squisher86SE:And, the speed of sound technically changes with the density of the medium the sound is traveling through. 768 mph for air on wikipedia is qualified as "in dry air at 68 deg. fahrenheit" (probably also at sea level pressure), so there will be some fluctuation as to the actual speed depending on the source, but ~760-770 mph in air are reasonable yardstick estimates.

Correct. I just used a generic conversion factor on Google. There isn't a Mach number for objects orbiting in space because there is no medium for sound to travel through.

When I read the "users" manual I came away with the impression that 3.2 was the max without authorization meaning, "if there is a reason, you can go faster."

Are those engines used in other aircraft?

I'm really surprised some billionare hasn't tried to buy one of the Blackbirds just for the thrill of it.

i work out at an air field that used to fly those an man sitting on the ground they are amazing as they are in the air. a millionair could not own one becasue they cannot own a f16 or f14 for that matter because the federal government restricts it. I know that some are still flying just not for the dod. pretty cool stuff.

quote Originally posted by TK: When I read the "users" manual I came away with the impression that 3.2 was the max without authorization meaning, "if there is a reason, you can go faster."

I got the impression it meant more like: "we cannot guarantee the integrity of the aircraft, exceed at your own risk" or, Kelly Johnson's way of saying "I can't calculate that sh** with a slide rule, flyboy. You're on your own."

Meaning, if you've got a choice of exceeding the max recommended speed, or getting shot down, PUNCH IT!

quote Originally posted by maryjane: I have no idea how much of this is factual, but I have seen it posted in several places and I assume it is true...

quote One moonless night, while flying a routine training mission over the Pacific, I wondered what the sky would look like from 84,000 feet if the cockpit lighting were dark. While heading home on a straight course, I slowly turned down all of the lighting, reducing the glare and revealing the night sky. Within seconds, I turned the lights back up, fearful that the jet would know and somehow punish me. But my desire to see the sky overruled my caution, I dimmed the lighting again. To my amazement, I saw a bright light outside my window. As my eyes adjusted to the view, I realized that the brilliance was the broad expanse of the Milky Way, now a gleaming stripe across the sky.Where dark spaces in the sky had usually existed, there were now dense clusters of sparkling stars. Shooting stars flashed across the canvas every few seconds. It was like a fireworks display with no sound. I knew I had to get my eyes back on the instruments, and reluctantly I brought my attention back inside. To my surprise, with the cockpit lighting still off, I could see every gauge, lit by starlight. In the plane’s mirrors, I could see the eerie shine of my gold spacesuit incandescently illuminated in a celestial glow. I stole one last glance out the window. Despite our speed, we seemed still before the heavens, humbled in the radiance of a much greater power. For those few moments, I felt a part of something far more significant than anything we were doing in the plane.

Don, that's really beautiful. Thanks very much for posting it.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Can't remember which, but there was another a/c that also had this wing droop problem. Can't remember which now, and it may have been an experimental.

Don, Are you thinking of the B-52 by chance? Back when I was younger I was lucky enough to spend a week down on the SAC base in Minot and seeing the Buffs in action was something I will never forget. What beautiful birds.

I believe the difference in mach speed may be land speed vs actual speed. Not really anything to do with air pressure changing the speed of sound. At 80k feet the speed recorded on the ground is slower than you would actually be traveling 80K feet up. Just as the larger tire you put on your car it will throw your speedo off because the larger tire has to turn less to cover the same distance as a smaller tire. So to make a revolution around the earth on the ground in one day would require less speed than if you were 80K feet away from the surface and tried to make a revolution in the same amount of time. Thats my guess.

quote Originally posted by rstubie: I believe the difference in mach speed may be land speed vs actual speed. Not really anything to do with air pressure changing the speed of sound. At 80k feet the speed recorded on the ground is slower than you would actually be traveling 80K feet up. Just as the larger tire you put on your car it will throw your speedo off because the larger tire has to turn less to cover the same distance as a smaller tire. So to make a revolution around the earth on the ground in one day would require less speed than if you were 80K feet away from the surface and tried to make a revolution in the same amount of time. Thats my guess.

Mach number is equal to the velocity of the object relative to the medium it's traveling in divided by the speed of sound in that medium.
The speed of sound changes depending on the density of the medium. For example, sound travels faster in water than it does in air.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 12-02-2011).]

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Are those engines used in other aircraft?

Aah, the J58. Really interesting and unique piece of engineering. Officially the fastest air breathing jet engine ever.

Here's the deal with that engine. It's designed for only this one application. Its also a hybrid Turbine / Ram Jet. Most of the engine is standard turbine fare, the main exception is that it can handle the extremely high intake temperatures associated with flying at speeds way over Mach 1. It's intake air is controlled by the intake nose cone that changes position based on speed as well as several other inlet/outlet doors along the engine body ahead of the Jet engine itself. But what's neat about this engine is its ability to dump air from the compressor casing directly into the engines afterburner, bypassing part of the turbine engine. Normally Turbine engines can only flow so much air, this unique feature removed a great deal of the limitation. Also, the afterburner is certified to run 100% duty cycle, Again unique to this engine. It used a special Chemical that ignites when exposed to Oxygen called TEB. The jet carried this to start, or re-ignite the engines, as well as light the afterburners instead of a traditional electric igniter plug. A normal igniter plug couldn't light JP-7. That fuel was one of a kind, and only used in this plane. They burnt off the last of it in ground runs of the J58 on full afterburner.



So theoretically we don't have the fuel to ever fly these again unless we make more. Did I mention that the fuel was extremely expensive? And it leaked out of the plane when on the ground? And that it needed to be refueled right after takeoff so that it could do whatever was needed of it? Yeah it's fast, but it's an expensive pain in the butt plane. Still I love it.

Thanks!
Love the info from people who were around these planes / engines.

quote Originally posted by Fierobsessed: Aah, the J58. Really interesting and unique piece of engineering. Officially the fastest air breathing jet engine ever. Here's the deal with that engine. It's designed for only this one application. Its also a hybrid Turbine / Ram Jet. Most of the engine is standard turbine fare, the main exception is that it can handle the extremely high intake temperatures associated with flying at speeds way over Mach 1. It's intake air is controlled by the intake nose cone that changes position based on speed as well as several other inlet/outlet doors along the engine body ahead of the Jet engine itself. But what's neat about this engine is its ability to dump air from the compressor casing directly into the engines afterburner, bypassing part of the turbine engine. Normally Turbine engines can only flow so much air, this unique feature removed a great deal of the limitation. Also, the afterburner is certified to run 100% duty cycle, Again unique to this engine. It used a special Chemical that ignites when exposed to Oxygen called TEB. The jet carried this to start, or re-ignite the engines, as well as light the afterburners instead of a traditional electric igniter plug. A normal igniter plug couldn't light JP-7. That fuel was one of a kind, and only used in this plane. They burnt off the last of it in ground runs of the J58 on full afterburner. So theoretically we don't have the fuel to ever fly these again unless we make more. Did I mention that the fuel was extremely expensive? And it leaked out of the plane when on the ground? And that it needed to be refueled right after takeoff so that it could do whatever was needed of it? Yeah it's fast, but it's an expensive pain in the butt plane. Still I love it.

So, what you're saying is, I can't just take one of these and strap it to the roof of the Fiero and go, huh?

quote Originally posted by rstubie: I believe the difference in mach speed may be land speed vs actual speed. Not really anything to do with air pressure changing the speed of sound. At 80k feet the speed recorded on the ground is slower than you would actually be traveling 80K feet up. Just as the larger tire you put on your car it will throw your speedo off because the larger tire has to turn less to cover the same distance as a smaller tire. So to make a revolution around the earth on the ground in one day would require less speed than if you were 80K feet away from the surface and tried to make a revolution in the same amount of time. Thats my guess.

Actually, it does have to do with air pressure changing the spedd of sound. Think of it this way: If the air is less dense, the molecules are further apart. Then it takes more time for the sound to make one air molecule bump into the next, so sound seems slower as air pressure falls.

quote Originally posted by Rallaster: So, what you're saying is, I can't just take one of these and strap it to the roof of the Fiero and go, huh?

Im working on something similar...


This seems a little more reasonable.

Thats not fast.......

How about the X15. Granted it wasnt a 'jet' but still....

" By the late 1950s the last frontier of that goal was hypersonic flight (Mach 5+) to the edge of space. It would require a huge leap in aeronautical technology, life support systems and flight planning. The North American X-15 rocket plane was built to meet that challenge. It was designed to fly at speeds up to Mach 6, and altitudes up to 250,000 ft. The aircraft went on to reach a maximum speed of Mach 6.7 and a maximum altitude of 354,200 ft. Looking at it another way, Mach 6 is about one mile per second, and flight above 264,000 ft. qualifies an Air Force pilot for astronaut wings."

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Thats not fast....... How about the X15. Granted it wasnt a 'jet' but still.... " By the late 1950s the last frontier of that goal was hypersonic flight (Mach 5+) to the edge of space. It would require a huge leap in aeronautical technology, life support systems and flight planning. The North American X-15 rocket plane was built to meet that challenge. It was designed to fly at speeds up to Mach 6, and altitudes up to 250,000 ft. The aircraft went on to reach a maximum speed of Mach 6.7 and a maximum altitude of 354,200 ft. Looking at it another way, Mach 6 is about one mile per second, and flight above 264,000 ft. qualifies an Air Force pilot for astronaut wings."

264k feet = 50 miles. That's the U.S. definition of the edge of space. The FAI Sporting Code for astronautics sets the limit at 100km, or 327,360 feet.

That's pretty impressive for an "air"craft, but once you start talking edge of space and beyond, it's a whole new ballgame. It's like saying you have the fastest hot air balloon when talking to glider pilots, or the fastest piston engine plane when talking to jet pilots.

You want to talk "fast", then start talking about the Helios-2 space probe, which currently holds the record for fastest man-made object: 157,078 mi/h or 43.63 miles/sec. Or, in terms of the speed of light, 000234c. Man, we've got a LONG way to go to get to Warp speed.

What memories, thanks guys. I remember watching "Habu" (That's what they were called on the rock/Okinawa ... it is a type of cobra) operations from the grassy area on the south side of the runway as a youngster when my dad was stationed there. Even from the housing area we always knew when they were testing the engines over at the test bed area.

quote Originally posted by Zeb: I got the impression it meant more like: "we cannot guarantee the integrity of the aircraft, exceed at your own risk" or, Kelly Johnson's way of saying "I can't calculate that sh** with a slide rule, flyboy. You're on your own." Meaning, if you've got a choice of exceeding the max recommended speed, or getting shot down, PUNCH IT!

I agree, that is a viable interpretation too!